T400 Memory Madness

[MartinBrice]

So, as some of you know, I've been working towards upgrading my Lenovo T400 which has been almost entirely unused since I bought it. So far, I've upgraded the CPU, and have been trying to upgrade the memory. In upgrading the memory, I first looked up the specs:

Memory

• PC3-8500 Non-Parity (NP) Double Data Rate Three (DDR3) Technology
• Two SO-DIMM Slots
• The use of 1067 MHz SO DIMM memory is recommended for this system.
• 512 MB, 1 GB, 2GB, or 4GB memory
• Supports up to 4GB maximum memory

Note: Only 64-bit operating systems support more than 3GB of system memory (RAM).

So, not knowing that Corsair has a bad rep with Thinkpads, I bought a Corsair Memory -8GB Dual Channel Memory Kit (CM3X8GSDKIT1066) from Amazon.com. I installed it and then proceeded to install Windows 7 Ultimate 64-bit (to replace Vista Home 32-bit).

I got a ton of BSOD with various paging errors as well as IRQ_NOT_LESS_THAN_OR_EQUAL or something along those lines during installation, and if I got all the way through, afterwards when I'd go to get updates.

So, I took out the memory, put back the factory memory to see if that changes things. Seemed fine. Ran the Windows Memory Diagnostic - can back fine. Ran Memtest86+ , got no errors.

I decided to try the sticks one at a time in Slot 0 and run the Windows Memory Diagnostic. One stick came back as fine, the other had an error every time I'd run it. So, I asked Amazon to swap it as defective. The memory I received to replace it seemed dead upon arrival. I put it in the system and all I got were a series of beeps when I'd try to turn it on. It wouldn't go so far as even the BIOS screen. Checked the sticks one at a time, same thing each time. Wouldn't even turn on. So, I sent it back and requested a refund which they said they'd give me.

Put the original memory back in - ran Windows Memory Diagnostic - no problems. In case you're wondering, the original OEM memory is Micron brand PC3-8500 DDR3-1066MHz 2GB (click for specs).

So, I went to my local computer supply, MicroCenter and decided to try to find memory that would work. The manager let me try another set of Corsair, same specs as before, and I got the same problem as the second set - wouldn't boot - nothing but beeps. Even if I tried one stick at a time (and before anybody asks, yes, I always put them in the primary slot when testing just one stick).

So then I tried PNY memory. It was a PNY 2x4GB PDC-8500 DDR-1066 Optima Dual Channel matched pair kit. Each SODIMM by itself tested fine with Windows Memory Diagnostic. However, together they failed. I didn't have an alternative, so I took it and have been trying to get it to work.

Once I got home, I read some threads that said that T400's with memory issues sometimes work better with PC3-10600 (1333MHz) instead of the recommended PC3-8500 (1066MHz), so I happened to have a PC3-10600 Corsair 8GB kit that was intended for my T420. I put it in. The system booted up fine, the Windows Memory Diagnostic said all was well, but Memtest86+ has gotten at least a dozen errors and it isn't finished testing.

I don't know what to do at this point. I don't get what's wrong.

[MartinBrice]

My mistake about the number of errors. It's on pass #2 and has 188 errors.

[jayton4]

Corsair has bad rep with Thinkpads? I didn't know that.

Maybe you should try 1 Rank memory instead of 2 Rank to see if that helps. Your Lenovo T400 specs there say that it only supports 4GB, not 8GB, which may or may not be the problem.

[MartinBrice]

Corsair has bad rep with Thinkpads? I didn't know that.

I should clarify. I don't know if that's true. I just kept running across statements to that effect when researching this problem.

I appreciate your suggestion - and if necessary will try that, but for the moment I was wondering what suggestions anybody might have that don't involve (at least immediately) me buying more memory?

[StealthTH]

I find it hard to believe that all those different sticks of memory would be bad. There is always a chance of receiving DOA memory, but you seem like you are having terrible luck. Two things that are popping into my head, one that a BIOS update could potentialy help. I don't recall seeing anything that added support for 8gb's of ram but I have a T400 and I run 8gbs with no problem. I however went with Crucial Memory (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6820148276) and haven't had an issue. The other thought that popped into my head is there could be something wrong with the mainboard that isn't triggered with a lower amount of memory. I honestly don't know what to tell you, I'm sorry.

[MartinBrice]

I find it hard to believe that all those different sticks of memory would be bad. There is always a chance of receiving DOA memory, but you seem like you are having terrible luck. Two things that are popping into my head, one that a BIOS update could potentialy help. I don't recall seeing anything that added support for 8gb's of ram but I have a T400 and I run 8gbs with no problem. I however went with Crucial Memory (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6820148276) and haven't had an issue. The other thought that popped into my head is there could be something wrong with the mainboard that isn't triggered with a lower amount of memory. I honestly don't know what to tell you, I'm sorry.

First off as a general rule, I have HORRIBLE luck. So that part is no surprise.

I got it working error free with 2 sticks of Elpida 2gb PC-8500 DDR3-1066 (link is to similar RAM found on Google).

I'd really like to run it with 8gb though.

[r3solv3]

Hello Martin, I have a t400 running 8 gigs of crucial memory. Picked it up from newegg for cheap.
I haven't had any issues with it at all. Good luck getting a better pair.

[MartinBrice]

SUCCESS!!!!

Got 8 gigs of Crucial working in it. No errors on either Memtest 86 or 86+ after several passes. I'm just going to Crucial in the future.

[pjk]

Over the years I've been supporting businesses (and myself) with Thinkpads, I've had lots of issues with 'off brand' memory despite the fact that the specs appear to be compatible.

So for the last 5 years or so I've pretty much stubbornly stuck to either original IBM/Lenovo memory, or Kingston memory.

Kingston has a 'generic' line (ValueRAM) and a 'premium' one which is specifically guaranteed to work on various brand-name computers, including Thinkpads.

Considering the price these days isn't much different between the 1st-tier and 2nd-tier memory, I just stick with the top stuff.

Part of the issue is quality-control, you might get a good set from a sloppy vendor, then again you might get a bad set.

And of course, be careful to pay attention to the usual anti-static precautions.

[MartinBrice]

Over the years I've been supporting businesses (and myself) with Thinkpads, I've had lots of issues with 'off brand' memory despite the fact that the specs appear to be compatible.

So for the last 5 years or so I've pretty much stubbornly stuck to either original IBM/Lenovo memory, or Kingston memory.

Kingston has a 'generic' line (ValueRAM) and a 'premium' one which is specifically guaranteed to work on various brand-name computers, including Thinkpads.

Considering the price these days isn't much different between the 1st-tier and 2nd-tier memory, I just stick with the top stuff.

Part of the issue is quality-control, you might get a good set from a sloppy vendor, then again you might get a bad set.

And of course, be careful to pay attention to the usual anti-static precautions.

I was careful about static - of course. What's bizarre is that the Crucial memory that works is essentially identical to the PNY and Corsair memory I tried to install. Even Crucial admitted this when I was initially skeptical that their memory would work and that I'd ever get beyond 4GB.

I'm hoping either the Corsair or PNY memory will work in my Acer laptop, because that's currently in pieces being upgraded too. At least if one of them works in it, I'll have only wasted about $50.

[pjk]

What's bizarre is that the Crucial memory that works is essentially identical to the PNY and Corsair memory I tried to install. Even Crucial admitted this when I was initially skeptical that their memory would work and that I'd ever get beyond 4GB.

What's your definition of "essentially identical"?

Same exact DRAM chip part numbers? Same exact PCBs that the chips are soldered onto? Same quality-control and grading process?

Also, if you look closely you will see there are a bunch of other devices on a memory module other than just the main DRAM chips - ie a bunch of capacitors, buffers, programmable SPD chips to provide registration data to the systems that require it, etc.

I've used lots of memory chips over the years, and the only ones that seem to be consistently reliable (for me anyway) have been Kingston, or the original vendor's branded memory.

Another thing that many people don't realize is that there are a variety of memory specs that are not accounted for in general memory types that people are familiar with. For example, I just bought some memory for a T60. T60's take DDR-2/PC2-5300 SoDIMMS. But there are other specs as well, which are often not provided by the company in their simple "memory compatibility" lists. "CAS latency" is a common one. (the spec for the T60 is a CAS latency of 5) There are various other timing specs, as well as noise specs, etc.

Since most people don't even know about those things, what people may think are "identical" are often in reality anything but.

There are other things - ie the design of the PCB can be done poorly resulting in a tendency to introduce electrical noise or interference, which ends up causing reliability issues. Or the static protection (those tiny capacitors you see on there) may be poor, and the usual abusive handling that a chip gets by people who don't know what they're doing may in that case actually kill it, whereas a chip with better static protection would survive. So of course the person who static-zapped it assumes that the vendor sold them a bad DIMM.