T43 fan questions

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manny · #31 Post by **manny** » Sun Apr 24, 2005 8:57 pm

Guys/Gals, I'm sorry if I've made this fan noise sound like an issue with the T43. Like I mentioned in my original post, this thing is awesome. I was just concerned about whether the fan being on contsantly was something to worry about and whether I could change any settings to make the fan run less often. I am still not sure from the responses whether a T42's fan has similar behaviour, and I am still not sure if anything can be done to make the fan run slower. Obviously more power would generate more heat, but it is also possible that with advanced technology and semiconductor materials that a processor may run faster at a relatively lower temperature. Another possibility could be the graphics chip that is generating more heat. Yet another possibility could be the 60gb HD (5200 rpm) that is running hotter, like the IBM salesperson suggested. I am still happy with this machine, but I may be marginally happier if the fan was quiet at least half the time and not on all the time. Just to clarify, I don't think there is an official fan problem with the T43s, and nothing in particular wrong with them. I was just trying to understand the issue, and perhaps address it by changing settings or getting a T42 FVU.

#32 Post by **aamsel** » Mon Apr 25, 2005 1:37 am

I don't see any harm done by talking about it.
After all, we are TP owners here.
Some (who are in 30 day satisfaction period for a particular purchase) feel that we have decisions to make. It is a big purchase, and we want all of the facts.

Any notebook will have "issues". Some issues are minor and some are not.

I have a T43 in my hands, and am contemplating its value over a comparable T42 right now myself.

The fan noise is pretty much irrelivent to me.
Heat and battery life are not irrelivent, however, and the edge seems to go to the T42 there.

Also not irrelivent (for me) is the T43's X300 video card getting inferior overall 3D scores to the 9600 card found on the T42.
No...I don't plan to game with it, but it seems sort of weird to "step down" from a 9600 to an X300.

The T43's edge, theoretically at least, goes to the faster CPU (at the expense of heat and battery life) and faster memory interfact (again, at the expense of heat and battery life.)
Also, the ability to run a PCI-X slot card, when one comes out.

The tradeoff's seem to be in favor of the T42 series, if you want a cooler, quieter model that runs longer on battery, and gets better 3D scores.

If you are doing massive database compiling or any other function where a faster CPU and memory interface would benefit, a little heat and noise don't bother you, and your TP is typically plugged into an electrical outlet, then the edge would go to the T43.

I think discussions such as this are quite healthy.
If a prospective T43 buyer is swayed toward a T42, IBM will be happy to sell T42's as long as they last. Hopefully, such a buyer will read all information available to them, and make a good, valid decision.

It seems to me, also, that it is the current T43 owners who are offended by the suggestions that the T42 might be a better deal.

If possible, I suggest that you keep an open mind, and not be offended.

Semi-related example:
I used to hang out a lot on another notebook forum with a lot of gamer-types.
The BIGGEST problem I saw there was this: whenever someone asked for a notebook recommendation, the notebook that was recommended by the member was almost ALWAYS the notebook that member owned! It didn't matter what size, weight, or features the person was looking for. If the member owned an ACER Ferrari, they recommended an ACER Ferrari!!!

What I am trying to say is:
If you feel that the model you decided on was the best choice, then it (at least for you) probably was. If someone is now pointing out potential issues with your model...so what? As I said, there are issues with every model. Don't think that it is "your baby" that someone is "running down".

Anyhow, as I come down to my final return opportunity days with my T43,
I do wonder if it was any "upgrade" from a T42.
However, I also am wondering what the new X series Tablet PC from IBM will be like when it rolls out May 15th or whenever it comes out.

I have rambled on far too long, and I hope that I have made some kind of point!

Andrew
Austin, TX

danny_isr · #33 Post by **danny_isr** » Mon Apr 25, 2005 11:01 am

aamsel wrote:

It seems to me, also, that it is the current T43 owners who are offended by the suggestions that the T42 might be a better deal.

If possible, I suggest that you keep an open mind, and not be offended.

Semi-related example:
I used to hang out a lot on another notebook forum with a lot of gamer-types.
The BIGGEST problem I saw there was this: whenever someone asked for a notebook recommendation, the notebook that was recommended by the member was almost ALWAYS the notebook that member owned! It didn't matter what size, weight, or features the person was looking for. If the member owned an ACER Ferrari, they recommended an ACER Ferrari!!!

What I am trying to say is:
If you feel that the model you decided on was the best choice, then it (at least for you) probably was. If someone is now pointing out potential issues with your model...so what? As I said, there are issues with every model. Don't think that it is "your baby" that someone is "running down".

this is really not the case here , (if you where talking about me) I’m not offended at all , i never told or recommended any one here to buy a T43.
I’m just trying to balance what's going here lately.
Actually i think the other way around happened here . T42 owner jumping on those "problem" to justify their "baby".(T42 is the best etc .. )

And like i said before , people that never seen a T43 talking about a "Fan Problem" as a fact. and i know how those things works , i seen it in other things. Rumor become facts, and that's it. Then it is really hard to convince people that it’s ok to buy.

Just trying to balance ,and give my honest experience and opinion here.

About heat , I really don’t know. I never worked with a T42 before. I don’t feel it’s getting hotter then HP/Compaq laptops that I use to have.
It’s much cooler then A Toshiba with a P4- 3.2Ghz (but I guess that is a different story)
You need to compare apples to apples , 2Ghz to 2Ghz .

Video card , if (lets assume , no one knows yet if it’s the case X300 is slightly slower then 9600, it’s really irrelevant to ANY one.
Battery , from what I understand , with the battery that T43 ships there no real difference.

The fan works most of the time(and I’m not crazy about this), but it’s only whispers.

#34 Post by **aamsel** » Mon Apr 25, 2005 11:14 am

I pretty much agree with most of what you said.

No, in NO WAY was I meaning you in particular, just a trend that I see of people recommending only what they purchase.
And...of course it makes complete sense why they do it.

I think my only disagreement with your comments would be the video card.
I am just not sure why going to a slower PCI Express card would be a benefit over a faster AGP card. Not sure how that "possible downgrade" would be
"really irrelevant to ANY one"???

Other than that, the systems (T42 and T43) are extremely close for obvious reasons!

Cheers!
Andrew
Austin, TX

danny_isr · #35 Post by **danny_isr** » Mon Apr 25, 2005 11:38 am

i will tell you why i see it as irrelevant :

From what i seen till now on reviews. on some the x300 got better scores and on other lower.
Lets say they are in the 10% range from each other. do you really think in real life (means games in this case) you will actually notice that ? probably not .

the benefit is not going with the X300 , it's going with the T43-X300 that offers other things as well
.
Your point can be valid if the T42 and T43 where IDENTICAL except the video card . then yeah - might as well buy the T42 if this 10% worth to you more then the better re sale value that the T43 will offer

But in our case you will probably get equal Video performance , and faster performance on other application (did I read somewhere that the memory is faster by a THIRD ??)). and that sounds wroth to me

#36 Post by **aamsel** » Mon Apr 25, 2005 11:46 am

Good enough.

All I was trying to do was point out that there are pros and cons of every system you purchase, and that they need to be weighed.

Mainly, I was rallying to Manny's defense, since he seemed to be feeling bothered concerning his mention of the fan "issue".

Also, that I am "on the fence" with one purchase recently made involving these same considerations, and even future considerations (unreleased Tablet PC's).

Other than that, T42 and T43 are extremely close in performance and value. Which one the edge goes to overall......I don't know.

When you compare Thinkpad "issues" to problems found with other models on other forums, the Thinkpad issues are fairly minor at best.

Bottom line....they are both great notebooks!!!

Andrew
Austin, TX

danny_isr wrote: (did I read somewhere that the memory is faster by a THIRD ??)). and that sounds wroth to me

rssb · #37 Post by **rssb** » Mon Apr 25, 2005 3:50 pm

I have worked with T43 and T42p.

I have been running the T42p with ibm a/b/g wireless card on wirless since last 7.5 hrs and i hardly hear the fan, its blowing slightly warm air. I havent run any disk intensive tasks or gaming, just using it for web browsing, reading and some image analysis.

The T43's fan was definitely continously on even when the power was set to the lowest ( cpu adaptive).

The design of the heat pipe on a T43 is slightly different ( it is not a 100% match to that of T42 ). Other factors could be the supplier of this fan used in here is different, or was a different batch than the T42's and had a manfacturing issue.

If i were to design the T43 cooling, i would consider the differences, between all the major components,

1) CPU - this is definitely producing more than the the previous one
2) 915 chipset - this might be running hotter than the 855 one, due to increased bus speed.
3) X300 GPU - this definitely is much different than the previous radeon 9xxx series ( in terms of architecture, speeds )
4) Fingerprint - this by itself might not generate any heat, but the way it is constructed in the case, it basically introduces more metal between the palmrest and HD enclosure. Due to this the space above the HD between the enclosure is not same as what it used to be. This is resulting in a 2-3 degress in HD temperature.

The Ram might be such a big issue because in the both the machines, it is just under the keyboard , i am not using the bottom slot. And on the keyboard near the ram location is it defnitely much cooler than the HD, location. ( There are lot of possibilities with the ram heat, a) it is carried away by the metal on the bottom side of the keyboard, should also be getting heat from the heat sink depending on the direction of lower temps , b) since there are keys on top and my hand was not coming in contact only the fingers, one might not feel the heat as much as in the palmreast or lap area where the machine rests or your hand on it. )
With so many new components and reduced spacing at some locations, one has to definitely reconsider the cooling aspect, unless the T40 - T42 cooling system was an overkill ( design factor of 1.5 or 2 ) and now it has been brought to bare manageable levels.

This might be a major factor in the reduced prices we are seeing in T43 when compared to T42's and T41 , because they are sticking to the old design and not much has been invested into coming up with a better design or changes in manufacturing process of T43.

danny_isr · #38 Post by **danny_isr** » Mon Apr 25, 2005 3:59 pm

rssb wrote:I have worked with T43 and T42p.

I have been running the T42p with ibm a/b/g wireless card on wirless since last 7.5 hrs and i hardly hear the fan, its blowing slightly warm air.
.

can you explain this point , i'm not sure if i understood this.
T42 fan is quieter or stops more often ?

rssb · #39 Post by **rssb** » Mon Apr 25, 2005 4:07 pm

The T42 Fan is running continously at very low speeds( i mean very very low speeds, i have to put a ear to the table to feel the fan), i can feel the warm air against my hand, but it is meniscule when compared to T43, which is blowing more air ( which necessarily does not mean it is hotter than T42's air )

It is hard to compare different flow rates, just by the feel of the hand for temperature, i wish i had a thermocouple or meter to read the actual temperatures.

The die temperature might not be a accurate way to get an surface location temperatures, depending on the alignment inside heat might flow differently.

danny_isr · #40 Post by **danny_isr** » Mon Apr 25, 2005 4:12 pm

"The T42 Fan is running continously at very low speeds"
that's a new one to me ....

i seen here on one of the post a link to a script that contorl the FAN and gives you the RPM as well . maybe you can compare the FAN speed like that

what speed CPU you got on them ?

manny · #41 Post by **manny** » Tue Apr 26, 2005 7:31 pm

Guys thanks for all the input. I think I am getting used to the T43 fan at this point.

#42 Post by **aamsel** » Tue Apr 26, 2005 10:20 pm

That's funny...so am I !!!

Looks like it will be what I have.

Andrew
Austin, TX

manny wrote:Guys thanks for all the input. I think I am getting used to the T43 fan at this point.

pointfielder · #43 Post by **pointfielder** » Thu Apr 28, 2005 6:06 pm

To: The T43 owners, who have reported fan issues in this thread
If you try the IBM's embedded controller program's 26-APR-2005 update
(Re: Adjustment for CPU thermal sensor error) reported in the thread:

http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.php?t=10719

Could you post in this thread, if it resolved your fan issues or not?

This will be helpful for all, especially those in the market for T43s. Thanks.

danny_isr · #44 Post by **danny_isr** » Thu Apr 28, 2005 6:59 pm

didnt change anything for me

manny · #45 Post by **manny** » Fri Apr 29, 2005 6:04 am

Did anyone figure this out yet?

Zeitgeist · #46 Post by **Zeitgeist** » Fri Apr 29, 2005 7:06 am

pointfielder wrote:To: The T43 owners, who have reported fan issues in this thread
If you try the IBM's embedded controller program's 26-APR-2005 update
(Re: Adjustment for CPU thermal sensor error) reported in the thread:

http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.php?t=10719

Could you post in this thread, if it resolved your fan issues or not?

No, didn't change anything. Same fan noise as before.

LeonQ · #47 Post by **LeonQ** » Fri Apr 29, 2005 11:27 pm

nothing got better after the update

, did anyone here ever try the on-site warranty to fix the fan problem? a ibm guy will come by my place and try to solve the fan issue, but I don't think this gonna work...

manny · #48 Post by **manny** » Sun May 01, 2005 11:38 am

I'm not sure what was supposed to happen. I simlply installed the software, the computer restarted and I didn't see anything different. Am I supposed to modify some settings or something?

danny_isr · #49 Post by **danny_isr** » Sun May 01, 2005 11:45 am

did any one actually called IBM and complained about this ?
i'm currently over seas and cannot do this . but i will when i'm back.

manny · #50 Post by **manny** » Mon May 02, 2005 9:34 pm

When I called I was told it was probably the 60gb hard drive I was using but I dont think I beleive that...

danny_isr wrote:did any one actually called IBM and complained about this ?
i'm currently over seas and cannot do this . but i will when i'm back.

danny_isr · #51 Post by **danny_isr** » Mon May 02, 2005 10:17 pm

did u replace it yourself ?

manny · #52 Post by **manny** » Tue May 03, 2005 7:04 am

No I got it from IBM with the 60gb drive.

mlykke · #53 Post by **mlykke** » Tue May 03, 2005 6:31 pm

Hi guys... Are there any of you who have previously owned a T42 which can say something about how the fan acts compared to the T43? And a comparison of the noise.

The things which makes me wonder is that in the specs for the T42 and T43, the T43 is actually supposed to have a noiselevel of 34db while the "old" T42 have 36db, so the new ones should actually be more quit.

So i would like to hear from somebody who have actually owned both models, since im trying to choose between a T42p or a T43p.

wn0x · #54 Post by **wn0x** » Wed May 04, 2005 3:00 pm

Yes, I have used the T42P and currently have a T43P.

The T42p had a more or less constant fan noise that seemed to run all the time and occasonionally sped up (this is from memory so please forgive inaccuracies). I would say it was the same on the 40/41.

The T43p fan pitch seems to vary a lot (kind of cool actually), and for certain tasks becomes noticeably higher in pitch and volume. I have pretty much learned to ignore it at this point.

For the most part, it seems just slightly louder than the 42P, unless their is a more CPU intensive task and it kicks into high gear.

Hope this helps.

mlykke · #55 Post by **mlykke** » Wed May 04, 2005 6:47 pm

Would you characterize the noise of the T42p as being loud or rather quiet?

danny_isr · #56 Post by **danny_isr** » Thu May 05, 2005 12:26 pm

In the last 2 days for the first time since i got the T43 i didn't use the Wireless
card. I'm connecting using the Ethernet connector.
Anyhow i noticed that the fan is still on but on much lower RPM.
the sound level of the fan is about the same as the hard drive now.

Danny

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