How much would you pay to make new ThinkPads "Classic"?

[twistero]

Alright, since there are so much hate on the (potential) design changes of the upcoming generation of ThinkPads...

Assume the new machines are announced and sold. Assume they are as bad as you think. Assume there is an aftermarket service that mods your brand new ThinkPad to:
- Use a 7-row keyboard layout
- Use full key caps instead of chiclet keys
- Put the thinklight back and get rid of keyboard backlight
- Install a lid latch


How much are you willing to pay, on top of the price of the laptop, for these mods (and the voiding of warranty)?

[Kaze22]

LOL
That would be a pretty cool mod.
Make your X1 look like an X301.
hmmmm.
Now thats trendy.

[ajkula66]

An excellent idea this thread is...

Personally, my answer is very simple: absolutely nothing.

If I need to mod a brand new ThinkPad there's no reason for me to own it in the first place. Period.

[dr_st]

Personally, my answer is very simple: absolutely nothing.

If I need to mod a brand new ThinkPad there's no reason for me to own it in the first place. Period.

Quoted for truth. My thoughts exactly.

[Summilux]

Alright, since there are so much hate on the (potential) design changes of the upcoming generation of ThinkPads...

Assume the new machines are announced and sold. Assume they are as bad as you think. Assume there is an aftermarket service that mods your brand new ThinkPad to:
- Use a 7-row keyboard layout
- Use full key caps instead of chiclet keys
- Put the thinklight back and get rid of keyboard backlight
- Install a lid latch

How much are you willing to pay, on top of the price of the laptop, for these mods (and the voiding of warranty)?

Sounds good.
If it's just the mod without the 7 row keyboard, 100€ max.

[automobus]

Fifty US dollars, maybe? But such a price is inflated. It should not need to cost even five dollars extra. I know the seventh row costs less than fifty extra dollars. I'd rather think about making it ergonomic.

For over ten years, not a single laptop computer has been worth buying unused. Perhaps older laptops were "elite" enough to buy brand-new despite being non-ergonomic. What is the cost of a new (non-crap-) computer, about $1800? Not worth it.

Here is some bad math: I opine that ThinkPad X22 was a generally good computer, and X22 today is worth about $50 (used, secondhand). So, 1800 - 50 = 1750. X22 is over ten years old. But it was a good computer, so maybe it earned a keyboard upgrade.

Doing the math again, with a new computer (although one which is not as good as X22): try Lenovo X220. I have no idea what that is worth, maybe $1200? 1800 - 1200 = 600.

I suspect, that a crap mass-produced keyboard is not worth even ten USD at the factory. They can come shipped from the other side of the world to my home, for just $20 dollars or so.

Meanwhile, a Maltron keyboard, hand-made in UK, costs about $500. That comes assembled in a housing with a USB cord. Why should a laptop-internal keyboard, with no body and USB cord, cost $600? I do not think it should cost so much.

edited to add:
I forgot to address the two other modifications, latches and ThinkLight.

Here is how I would fund the ThinkLight and latches, if I was the designer/engineer. I suspect ThinkLight is cheaper/easier to implement than the UltraNav touchpad in every way. And probably no more difficult to accomodate than backlighting. With all that money saved by giving-up the touchpad and backlight, one can afford ThinkLight. And as for latches: there are no electronics involved, it is only a challenge in that they require space in both the lid and base. Surely there is room in the lid, since they went widescreen! And surely there is room in the base, since they took-away the ExpressCard eject button and went from three audio jacks to one.

[ajkula66]

automobus wrote:

For over ten years, not a single laptop computer has been worth buying unused.

Agreed wholeheartedly.

[pianowizard]

For over ten years, not a single laptop computer has been worth buying unused.

I sort of agree but the last time I bought a brand-new laptop was Dec 2007, an X61 tablet (with SXGA+, of course) straight from Lenovo, for $1,063. I hugely regretted it, selling it just two weeks afterward! Before that, a brand-new X40 in Dec 2005 through this forum, for $1,167. That was a good buy and I kept the laptop for almost a year. And before that X40, a Dell Inspiron 700m directly from Dell in Oct 2004, for $988, and that was also a good buy so I kept it for almost two years. Finally, my very first laptop, an Inspiron 8200 purchased also from Dell, in Aug 2002 for $1,759. I didn't like it that much but kept it for 3.5 years anyway, perhaps because its being my first laptop evoked sentimental attachment.

But since 2008, there really hasn't been a single laptop that's worth buying new. The X301 and X201s were both excellent, but way too expensive by 2010s standards. After these two, not a single Thinkpad has been even marginally interesting. Right now, Sony and Panasonic have a few semi-worthy laptops but I would rather wait until they have depreciated below $300 or so. That's why I just keep buying laptops that are at least three years old, and since they are so old, they are already "classic" without further modification! Yesterday I won a Sony VGN-X505 for $110 shipped, and I expect to receive a Panasonic CF-Y7 today.

[ssd_thinkpad]

Congratulations to your Y7, I have to check the Y series out.

I am very happy with my T520, my friends don't even see a difference to the T60, they still think I use the same notebook. The FHD display is ok, and the keyboard is top-notch. It is far easier to type on than on my x220 as the palm rest is large enough. When I am at home I just plug it into the docking, I don't have a stand-alone PC. Yesterday I started my T60 up and the display is better for text creation, but now I am used to 16:9 as strange as it sounds. I only use the Think Light on flights as I type blind.

[automobus]

I am going to relax my stance of "for over ten years, not a single laptop computer has been worth buying unused". I thought about it some more, and I realised that: for certain people, who know exactly what they will be getting, a new computer is worth it. And I thought of three categories of these specific purchasers.

Big screens. It is almost impossible not to observe, that LCDs became much bigger and cheaper in the past ten years. In my opinion, every big-screened laptop compromised on other parts of the design. Though some people truly wanted or needed these beastly laptops as soon as they came out.

Ultraportables. There were some excellent ultraportables before 2000, and excellent models continued to be made since then. Until 2007, the state of the art seemed to be always improving. For instance, ThinkPad X40 is very impressive, and Sony's T* series were incredible. But in my eyes, thermal management did not improve at the same rate as CPU power, which really bugs me. And, internal layout and quality of many (non-IBM) ultraportables was so delicate and non-serviceable, that I would almost rather have a Toughbook! Since about 2002, it is my opinion, that the new ultraportbles did not improve on all bases; that each model had a flaw or two, and was not worth buying new. Though some people truly wanted or needed them as soon as they came out.

Ruggeds. These things continually advance in performance, while adding less B.S. than any any other category. I hold a grudge against the makers of ruggeds, because they do not share service manuals. I would imagine that the rugged category should have more repair information than any other! Why do only the "Big Business Three" (Dell, HP, and IBM Lenovo) treat their computers seriously enough to let people repair them? If I were to buy a rugged, I would want to trust it for a decade or for life. The service information exists. There are people out there, "authorised" to fix these things, and they are allowed to see the ink-on-paper illustrations and parts breakdowns. Why the heck is this literature not published, put on FTP or HTTP servers? That is why I "distrust" the makers of ruggeds. Though some people truly wanted or needed the powerful new ruggeds as soon as they came out.



Pianowizard, I look forward to reading your thoughts about your new laptops.

[Puppy]

If I need to mod a brand new ThinkPad there's no reason for me to own it in the first place. Period.

Same here. I've given up on buying a new notebook. The era of notebook as a product is currently over. I swichted back to desktop machines because I still can configure them (thanks to NEC/Eizo monitors) to be used as a serious tool for work. Current notebooks are toys for watching HD movies only on contrastless displays (and possible horrible keyboards in the near future), nothing more.

BTW The price of X220 i7 has raised 10% up last week over here. I'm still waiting for an X 12" 1920x1080 (No, 12" 1400x1050 can't happen anymore on Earth) IPS/PVA/OLED/whatever-non-TN ThinkPad but I know it is rather ridiculous dream.

[pianowizard]

There were some excellent ultraportables before 2000

The Thinkpad 240 and its Sony and Toshiba counterparts must have been AMAZING when they first came out. And I wish the "handheld PC" form factor (e.g. the HP Jornadas) were still popular today. It's still around, but just not popular.

Pianowizard, I look forward to reading your thoughts about your new laptops.

The Sony X505 will probably take over a week to arrive but the Panasonic CF-Y7 came in this morning. I am sooooooo very pleased with it. Whereas the Dell Latitude D820 was the most beautiful laptop I have ever owned, this Y7 may be functionally the most versatile: light enough (3.38 lbs) to travel with, high resolution enough (1400x1050) for quasi-serious multitasking, powerful enough (1.6GHz Core2 Duo L7500, 2GB DDR2) for the vast majority of applications that I use, SATA HDD (as opposed to the Y2/Y4/Y5's PATA) for future upgrade to 1TB or more, an internal DVD burner for the occasional movie, and one feature that's getting rare these days: a built-in VGA port for hooking up to projectors during my business trips. Since its arrival this morning, I have been playing with it virtually non-stop and the whole time I have been thinking: with a laptop like this, why would I want to buy new?

[sysiphus]

The Thinkpad 240 and its Sony and Toshiba counterparts must have been AMAZING when they first came out. And I wish the "handheld PC" form factor (e.g. the HP Jornadas) were still popular today. It's still around, but just not popular.

Oh, I wish the HPC form factor were still alive, too. My device of choice was the NEC MobilePro 780--I picked one up secondhand to use in high school for $125, and was blown away by how good it was. While WinCE 2.11 was a bit dated by 2003, I could still make a 16-bit PC-Card WiFi adapter work with it, and the CompactFlash slot provided plenty of storage. The 93%-sized keyboard was just big enough to be touch-typable, and made up for its size by having decent key travel and feel--a far better keyboard than on the cheap "netbooks" that were in vogue a year or two ago. The 640x240 resolution is pretty weak by today's standards, but it was wide enough to reasonably type up class notes...and given the age of the technology, not too awful.