TrackPoint and TrackPad seem to have stopped functioning

[mujahid7ia]

Hi all,

I have a T510 (i5 M520 @2.4GHz, 4GB RAM, Win7 Ultimate x64).

I recently had to take off the keyboard and bezel etc. to do something, and when I put it back together, the TrackPoint was acting very erratic (as soon as I would touch it, the mouse would jump all over the place and click randomly). So, I took it apart again (multiple times) to verify that the cables from the keyboard and bezel were firmly seated, etc. Everything seems to be fine. Now, however, neither one works at all, and pressing Fn+F8 results in a message stating "UltraNav Driver is not installed." (and I'm fairly certain that it is).

In the BIOS, in Config > Keyboard/Mouse, both TrackPoint and TrackPad are set to "Automatic".

Any suggestions for getting the TrackPoint working again (and the TouchPad, though I barely use that)?

Any help would be greatly appreciated, thanks!

[Orclas]

I don't have the great deptsh of knowledge as some here, but fixing computer problems is on the other hand sometimes purely hunch based, so you'll get my hunch input.

It's based on "UltraNav Driver is not installed", which gives me the impression of being the driver (i.e. software), rather than hardware. What does the Device Manager say, any yellow "!" there?

Even if everything looks ok, I'd say uninstall the driver and see if it helps (right click UltraNav pointing device and click Uninstall). Windows should do the found-new-hardware process at next boot and reinstall it automatically (uninstall driver in Device Manager doesn't delete it from the computer).

At any rate, this will help you rule out driver/software/OS as the culprit, which is always a good start.

[mujahid7ia]

Thanks for the reply.

I just uninstalled the driver. However, on reboot, Windows not find it, and reinstalling the drivers myself from Lenovo did not help. The devices aren't present in Device Manager at all, actually.

[Orclas]

So the keyboard works, but not the trackpoint, nor the touchpad? Kinda odd, given that the keyboard and trackpoint share cable (well, they do on my T40 at least, haven't had a reason to open my T400).

Well, let's hope some hardware knowledgeable person stops by, I'm already out of ideas...

... or actually, mostly out of curiosity, does an external mouse work?

[Neil]

Seems fairly obvious that something bad happened while removing or reinstalling the keyboard. Am I correct to assume the palmrest was removed too? Was the machine turned off with battery removed and AC unplugged when the keyboard was removed?

If the connector is seated properly, there is not much that can go wrong, unless one or more of the contact pins could have bent. But, if power was present, all kinds of havoc can be wreaked upon the motherboard circuits or fuses, etc., even in the rare case with power off, but battery still installed.

[mujahid7ia]

So the keyboard works, but not the trackpoint, nor the touchpad? Kinda odd, given that the keyboard and trackpoint share cable (well, they do on my T40 at least, haven't had a reason to open my T400).

Well, let's hope some hardware knowledgeable person stops by, I'm already out of ideas...

... or actually, mostly out of curiosity, does an external mouse work?

Yes, I find it odd too, and they do share a cable. It is even more odd that both the TrackPoint AND the TrackPad do not work (and they are using different cables--what are the chances of BOTH being damaged), making me suspect that it is a software issue.

Yes, the external USB mouse works fine.

[mujahid7ia]

Seems fairly obvious that something bad happened while removing or reinstalling the keyboard. Am I correct to assume the palmrest was removed too? Was the machine turned off with battery removed and AC unplugged when the keyboard was removed?

If the connector is seated properly, there is not much that can go wrong, unless one or more of the contact pins could have bent. But, if power was present, all kinds of havoc can be wreaked upon the motherboard circuits or fuses, etc., even in the rare case with power off, but battery still installed.

Yes, the palmrest was removed as well. I am certain the battery and AC power were removed. I've inspected the ribbon cable very carefully, and the port on the motherboard, and can find no obvious damage..

[mujahid7ia]

Hmm...well--I got the TrackPoint working. This is not exactly scientific but I tested it twenty times or so: whenever the screw under the RAM slot (which is one of the screws necessary to remove the keyboard) is screwed in, the TrackPoint stops functioning. With the screw out, it functions. I suppose it is putting pressure somewhere on the ribbon cable--but I didn't know that ribbon cables would respond that way. Also, it doesn't line up perfectly with that screw, so I'm not sure about this theory. However, the TrackPoint does seem to be functioning.

HOWEVER, now the TrackPad doesn't show up at all in the BIOS! I don't use it much, BUT this causes all UltraNav features (including scrolling with the TrackPoint, one of my main uses for it) to be disabled. It seems UltraNav requires both devices to be enabled in the BIOS to function.... I really don't know what to try next. I reseated both ribbon cables very carefully today, multiple times.

[John H]

I have the same problem with my t520 running Win7. I have to use an external mouse thru the USB.

Also, I have the same problem with ubuntu when I boot from the ubuntu 12.04 live CD.

I installed Ultra Nav driver and utilities from the Lenovo support site, and get the same thing when I try Fn+F8: "Ultra Nav not installed".

[mujahid7ia]

I have the same problem with my t520 running Win7. I have to use an external mouse thru the USB.

Also, I have the same problem with ubuntu when I boot from the ubuntu 12.04 live CD.

I installed Ultra Nav driver and utilities from the Lenovo support site, and get the same thing when I try Fn+F8: "Ultra Nav not installed".

What shows up in your BIOS under Config > Keyboard/Mouse?

[mujahid7ia]

I'd just like to bump this, and see if anyone had any ideas...currently neither my TrackPoint nor the TrackPad function at all. The ribbon cables look fine to me, but I suppose I could be missing some damage. But again, what are the chances of both cables (for the keyboard/TrackPoint and the Trackpad) being damaged?

Is there some way to troubleshoot this problem that I'm missing?

I thought about buying another keyboard to test, but that wouldn't solve the TrackPad problem (I guess) and they seem somewhat expensive.

Any help would be appreciated, thanks.

[mujahid7ia]

This thread is pretty much a year old now (I've gotten used to using a USB mouse), but this problem persists. I actually ended up buying two or three keyboards (all new) with mixed results. Unfortunately, it was long enough ago that I do not remember the exact results, but I do remember that while with this (original) keyboard connected, neither mouse fuctions but the keyboard does function. However, with (at least one of) the new keyboards, neither the keyboard OR the TrackPoint OR the TrackPad functioned. I have since returned those keyboards.

Anyway, now I've decided to fix this once and for all, since this will become my primary laptop (I'm selling my T430s). I have already ordered two new keyboards for troubleshooting purposes (one of which is the exact same part no. and FRU as the original keyboard I have). So I was wondering whether anyone had any suggestions about how to go about troubleshooting this problem.

Thank you

[jayton4]

This thread is pretty much a year old now (I've gotten used to using a USB mouse), but this problem persists. I actually ended up buying two or three keyboards (all new) with mixed results. Unfortunately, it was long enough ago that I do not remember the exact results, but I do remember that while with this (original) keyboard connected, neither mouse fuctions but the keyboard does function. However, with (at least one of) the new keyboards, neither the keyboard OR the TrackPoint OR the TrackPad functioned. I have since returned those keyboards.

Anyway, now I've decided to fix this once and for all, since this will become my primary laptop (I'm selling my T430s). I have already ordered two new keyboards for troubleshooting purposes (one of which is the exact same part no. and FRU as the original keyboard I have). So I was wondering whether anyone had any suggestions about how to go about troubleshooting this problem.

Thank you

I have had a similar issues with mixed results on new keyboards with an Edge E520. The original problem was caused by a pinched cable. After trying several keyboards with mixed results, I was able to get the original to work by placing a small piece of tape on the ribbon cable so that it would be positioned slightly lower once assembled.

[mujahid7ia]

This thread is pretty much a year old now (I've gotten used to using a USB mouse), but this problem persists. I actually ended up buying two or three keyboards (all new) with mixed results. Unfortunately, it was long enough ago that I do not remember the exact results, but I do remember that while with this (original) keyboard connected, neither mouse fuctions but the keyboard does function. However, with (at least one of) the new keyboards, neither the keyboard OR the TrackPoint OR the TrackPad functioned. I have since returned those keyboards.

Anyway, now I've decided to fix this once and for all, since this will become my primary laptop (I'm selling my T430s). I have already ordered two new keyboards for troubleshooting purposes (one of which is the exact same part no. and FRU as the original keyboard I have). So I was wondering whether anyone had any suggestions about how to go about troubleshooting this problem.

Thank you

I have had a similar issues with mixed results on new keyboards with an Edge E520. The original problem was caused by a pinched cable. After trying several keyboards with mixed results, I was able to get the original to work by placing a small piece of tape on the ribbon cable so that it would be positioned slightly lower once assembled.

Thanks for the response and suggestion! Hmm, pinched cable...does that mean the problem only occurred after you screwed the keyboard back in each time? I have this problem even when the keyboard is detached from the case and just plugged in; neither the Trackpad nor TrackPoint works but the keyboard (including volume, power on, mute) works fine. I just can't figure out what the problem would be. The connector on the motherboard seems to be fine, but since the two brand new keyboards I bought exhibit exactly the same behavior, I suppose there must be some system board related problem. (I'd love for someone to disagree with me on that!)

[jayton4]

Hmm, pinched cable...does that mean the problem only occurred after you screwed the keyboard back in each time? I have this problem even when the keyboard is detached from the case and just plugged in; neither the Trackpad nor TrackPoint works but the keyboard (including volume, power on, mute) works fine. I just can't figure out what the problem would be. The connector on the motherboard seems to be fine, but since the two brand new keyboards I bought exhibit exactly the same behavior, I suppose there must be some system board related problem. (I'd love for someone to disagree with me on that!)

Yes, the problem I was working on did occur only once the keyboard was screwed back in. I would have to agree with you at this point that the only other possibility would have to be something that is happening in or on the system board for the one you are working on.

[RealBlackStuff]

whenever the screw under the RAM slot (which is one of the screws necessary to remove the keyboard) is screwed in, the TrackPoint stops functioning. With the screw out, it functions. I suppose it is putting pressure somewhere on the ribbon cable--but I didn't know that ribbon cables would respond that way. Also, it doesn't line up perfectly with that screw, so I'm not sure about this theory. However, the TrackPoint does seem to be functioning.

Putting a wrong (too long) screw in the wrong hole could have caused the problem!

[mujahid7ia]

Hmm, pinched cable...does that mean the problem only occurred after you screwed the keyboard back in each time? I have this problem even when the keyboard is detached from the case and just plugged in; neither the Trackpad nor TrackPoint works but the keyboard (including volume, power on, mute) works fine. I just can't figure out what the problem would be. The connector on the motherboard seems to be fine, but since the two brand new keyboards I bought exhibit exactly the same behavior, I suppose there must be some system board related problem. (I'd love for someone to disagree with me on that!)

Yes, the problem I was working on did occur only once the keyboard was screwed back in. I would have to agree with you at this point that the only other possibility would have to be something that is happening in or on the system board for the one you are working on.

Yes...I think just on the off chance that it works, I'll also get another palmrest to test out.

[mujahid7ia]

whenever the screw under the RAM slot (which is one of the screws necessary to remove the keyboard) is screwed in, the TrackPoint stops functioning. With the screw out, it functions. I suppose it is putting pressure somewhere on the ribbon cable--but I didn't know that ribbon cables would respond that way. Also, it doesn't line up perfectly with that screw, so I'm not sure about this theory. However, the TrackPoint does seem to be functioning.

Putting a wrong (too long) screw in the wrong hole could have caused the problem!

That's true, though even if the ribbon cable was damaged on the original keyboard, I don't see why the brand new keyboards (before being screwed in) still do not fix the problem. Also - unfortunately - that behavior was only temporary; right now I cannot get the TrackPoint to function either way.

Thanks for the response.

[mujahid7ia]

I never updated this thread, but after much testing with new keyboards and palm rest bezels / trackpads, it seems that it must be the actual motherboard connector for the trackPAD causing this--I don't know how that connector would have become damaged. Simply leaving it unplugged allows the TrackPoint to work fine. With some messing around with drivers, the scrolling on the TrackPoint works fine, even though the driver package complains about not detecting the TrackPad. Since i never use the TrackPad anyway, this solution is fine with me.

[kkk]

I had the same issues with another system/OS and just solved the problem. And as I searched the forums for solutions, noticed that it happens on various models so it's not only my case or T510's case.
Anyway - my trackpoint and touchpad also suddenly stopped working today, got the same message "ultranav driver is not installed" and after assured that the problem is not driver related, nor OS related, nor BIOS/EC issue, nor damaged keyboard/touchpad, reading this topic I was just about to give it up and consider purchasing a replacement motherboard when I opened the system to see if I can locate some damaged elements. Then I noticed that the modem cable's isolation has a 2-3 mm slot and some of the wires inside are stripped. The place is just next to one of the screw holes for securing the palmrest and underneath the palmrest there is some thin sheet iron providing "ground" for the touchpad/fingerprint reader and obviously contacting the stripped cable - I guess that sometimes when I was assembling it I've pinched the cable, but just today reflected. Isolated the cable, installed the keyboard without palmrest and the trackpoint was working. But when I assembled it including the palmrest - again nothing was working. Then I tried with both the keyboard and touchpad/fingerprint reader's connector plugged in, but I was holding the palmrest in the air with one hand - and they were both working. So, except the stripped wire, there is another faulty connection between keybard and palmrest and I remember that some time ago I removed the plastic isolation underneath the touchpad , which somehow is causing troubles now.

mujahid7ia - make sure that everything is fine with your cables and metal parts from the keyboard and palmrest are not in touch.

Edit: wasn't right about the palmrest/keyboard - actually the ribbon cable for the touch pad/fingerprint reader is broken and when I was holding it in the air it was OK, that's why everything worked. Replaced it and just now everything is fine.

[fmatthew5876]

I had this same problem with my ThinkPad W520 and it was driving me crazy. This thread was pretty much the only helpful bit of info I could find online but ultimately I found my solution was different.

I had to open the laptop to clean out dust from the cpu fan. When I put it back together the touchpad and trackpoint stopped working. Since it happened right after taking apart the machine obviously its a hardware connection problem caused by me. I inspected the ribbon cable very carefully and I could see no damage to it or the motherboard plug whatsoever.

There is actually no problem with the trackpoint or the keyboard. If you disconnect the touchpad cable, the trackpoint works just fine. Its likely that when the touchpad is connected but not working, it also somehow disabled the trackpoint.

I noticed the same things as others. If I would put a piece of cardboard between the palm rest bezel and the machine, keeping it raised up a bit sometimes the touchpad would work. I could hold the disconnected bezel slightly above the machine with my hand and see it working, and as I slowly lowered it down it would mysteriously stop working again.

The first hypothesis was when the machine was assembled, the ribbon cable was touching some metal component and causing a short. I tried covering the whole cable in electrical tape but this didn't work.

The second hypothesis was with the bent part of the cable that folds over itself right above the end that connects into the motherboard. Perhaps it was being pinched too hard or the wrong parts touching and causing a short? I put some tape here inside the fold, and still no good.

Then I finally figured out the real problem. The issue is with the motherboard plug itself that the ribbon cable feeds into. When the switch is closed the connection is not very tight and what happens is that the cable does not have a good solid connection to the pins of the plug. The easy fix is to tape the edge of the cable to the base so that it can't move and the leads on the cable are securely touching the leads of the plug. You can also put some tape on the back side of the cable effectively making it thicker so that the switch holds it in more tightly.

[yankeesamurai]

IF YOU GUYS INSTALL SYNAPTICS DRIVER.. (IT WORKS ON ALL UNITS) GET IT FROM GOOGLING IT ... AFTER ITS INSTALLED
AND YOU REBOOT, IT WILL COME UP ON THE SCREEN , GO TO LAST TAB, DISABLE TOUCHPAD, END OF PROBLEM ( IF YOU USE
EXTERNAL MOUSE ALL TIME.. ) RED JOYSTICK IN KEYBOARD WILL STILL WORK...BUTTONS ON TOUCHPAD STILL WORK.. JSUT THE SURFACE IS DISABLED. SHOULD FIX YOUR ISSUES...

[Keithius]

*Fixed* I had the same problem as the original post. I picked up this T520 for $20 because it was "broken". TrackPoint and Trackpad both unresponsive. After testing found that the TrackPoint was bad. Testing involved pulling the palm rest off and disconnecting the touchpad, then reboot. Still the TrackPoint didn't work. Reinstalled the touchpad then removed the keyboard and reboot again. Two ways to do this. 1. in Windows remove the keyboard, and use USB mouse to navigate to restart, Or 2. have the keyboard ready to be pulled. Press the power button then remove keyboard immediately during splash screen. My touchpad worked perfectly. Seems that the TrackPoint and touchpad work together. In this case the TrackPoint was impeding the touchpad from being recognized by the motherboard. I looked up the cost of a new keyboard and considering I only paid $20 for this machine. I felt this was a better fix. I cut the ribbon the to TrackPoint that I never use (this will disable the TrackPoint buttons as well). Touchpad works perfectly now.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/40417938@ ... ed-public/

[RealBlackStuff]

Bit drastic I'd say!
Next time remove the screws and metal shield over the trackpoint and just disconnect the cable from its PCB.

[Stux]

Good Afternoon,
I have a T520i with Windows 7 64-bit that has had the issue of the TrackPoint and TrackPad being dysfunctional. After troubleshooting for a few hours I have found the same defect as fmatthew5876. I originally had a hard time believing that it was a physical issue since the TrackPoint is on the keyboard and is a separate ribbon cable than the TrackPad. How I fixed it was by applying some electrical tape on the side with no pins on the ribbon cable closest to the motherboard. I cut 3 pieces of tape roughly a 1/2" long and after applying it worked like a charm. Now the ribbon cable is nice a snug with no issues.

[jayjay]

Guys you are gonna kick yourselves after 5 years of wringing your heads around this one.

First of all I just recently acquired a W520 off ebay. I upgraded it with a Bluetooth daughter card according to the service manual. Put it all back together. Bluetooth was a success. However, I got the same symptoms described throughout previous comments. TouchPad wouldn't work. It took me a few days to notice because I use external mouse/keys. And yes, the keyboard screw under the bottom RAM slot cover seemed to control the functionality of the TrackPoint; screw tightened all the way down = no Trackpoint. Remove screw or tighten halfway = TrackPoint works (grounding issue?) UltraNav was installed but not recognized as the Mouse driver. I swear even a couple of times I powered on the unit and my Intel wireless network adapter was corrupted to the point I had to go through system restore just to regain connectivity. Not sure if that is related but it certainly seems fishy given the potential power problems and proximity. The wireless card plugs in right next to the TouchPad ribbon connector on the board.

Anyway the answer is right there on pg. 77 Table 23 of the W/T520 service manual. The TouchPad ribbon connector. Somebody did hit on it earlier. If the ribbon cable is loose that is the problem. The pins are not hitting the contacts. There's a reason for that though. There's a little black clip on the connector that pushes DOWN to hold the ribbon cable contacts against the pins, and pushes UP to release the ribbon cable for disconnection. Now the manual has NO DESCRIPTION of this, it is only graphically illustrated. What threw me off is there is a fold on the end of my ribbon cable that looks like the illustrated connector clip that I failed to recognize. Initially I gently pulled the cable out (while likely loosening the clip enough to release the cable because I didn't realize there was a clip). I thought the arrow in the manual's graphic was depicting the direction to pull the cable but it was really demonstrating how to push UP on the clip to release the ribbon cable.

So when I finally pushed the clip DOWN on the TouchPad ribbon connector and put humpty dumpty back together, TouchPad and Trackpoint came back 100% and UltraNav finally loaded as my Mouse driver in device manager. Oh and no more wireless adapter driver corruptions so far, fwiw.

Hope this helps everyone concerned.

[TPFanatic]

That connector messed me up too. In fact Brchan helped me with the exact problem last December. What ever happened to sticking with the old style of touchpad connectors, or the same type used by the 14" T series. More evidence of the cheapening of the 15" T series.... #conspiracy

The award for the worst touchpad connector of this era, however, must go to the T410.