Viewing angles

Message

a_d_y_a · #1 Post by **a_d_y_a** » Mon Apr 25, 2005 11:15 am

I am about to get the forum favourite 2378 FVU. (thanx andrew) . But i had one last huge doubt.

Vertical viewing angles. I dont care about horizontal angles,but vertical are very crucial.

I get to borrow a dell 700m whose vertical angles suxk donkeys [censored]. it is such a pain to get the angle right before commencing work. can anyone post pictures exmplifying the 2378's viewing angles?

Thanks

aditya

dvorak · #2 Post by **dvorak** » Mon Apr 25, 2005 11:26 am

Well, they're bad, honestly.
As I've heard, FlexViews are far superior to the 14" SXGA+ displays, I haven't seen one so I can just comment on my own experience with the non-FlexView screens

On a black background, top darker, bottom lighter. When viewing a some tones of blue, it'll appear as blueish on the bottom and violet in the upper part.
I wouldn't expect something that could be compared to a desktop LCD with four backlight-tubes, as these here have only one, and it's situated in the bottom, hence no color uniformity.

I myself still have a little of those slow red pixels, but I've been on trips etc. so I haven't contacted IBM yet with pictures this time, they suggested that the machine be sent to analysis and would not replace it, it's my third display already. So I'd be on a watch for this "bug" too.

a_d_y_a · #3 Post by **a_d_y_a** » Mon Apr 25, 2005 5:13 pm

are they really worse than a 700m?
700m doesnt even have a sweet spot, forget view angles..no sweetspot!!
so that means how much u adjust, some part of the lcd is always washed out.

wow!

then why would you buy such a notebook?
screen is such a big issue with me...

thanks a lot

pphilipko · #4 Post by **pphilipko** » Mon Apr 25, 2005 10:26 pm

On my previous T41p, the screen didn't have a sweet spot, but it was close. You can't really notice it, but I guess one can learn to live with it.

On my X40, there is a sweet spot, but that is probably due to the fact that its a 12.1 screen.

#5 Post by **JaneL** » Mon Apr 25, 2005 10:37 pm

a_d_y_a wrote:bump for a patient one!

Don't do this in such a short time frame.

#6 Post by **aamsel** » Mon Apr 25, 2005 11:19 pm

I have no idea where Dell gets their screens from for the 700m but they are not a very good screen at all.

The T42 screen for the 2378FVU is currently one of two sources. Most of them are Samsung, I think it is possible to get a Hitachi, not sure. Almost everyone gets a Samsung panel on this model.

The vertical viewing angle is "nothing to write home about", but I do feel that there is a sweet spot. There is, of course a sweet spot horizontally, i.e. sit right in front of it. Someone on a plane in the next seat would have a hard time viewing a movie on your screen, as there is a "negative" effect as you move away from the center of the screen.

Vertically, I don't think you will have any problem. The one "gripe" I had with the Samsung panels (that I have with almost every matte SXGA+ LCD) is the gradient "issue" or the fact that the screen is brighter at the bottom and darker at the top. This is due to the backlight positioning (I think).

The only matte LCD's that I have preferred (and seen) were on 15.4" Widescreen notebooks (such as HP) but I disliked the rest of the notebook's features so much that it was not worth getting it for the screen.

To me, after looking at EVERYTHING, there is Thinkpad, and then there is everything else! (IBM could quote me for a commercial)!!

Also, I am not a fan of widescreens. However, with widescreens, the backlighting is usually on both sides, and works better than standard aspect ratio screens. Unfortunately (again) most widescreen's are going to the glossy-type screens like SONY XBrite which I also don't like.

The best overall Thinkpad screen for viewing angles and contrast ratio is the 15" Flexview WITHOUT QUESTION. I simply don't want to haul around a 15" when I have seen how svelte the 14.1" models are.
The only way to get better viewing angles than a Flexview is to get a Tablet PC with 180 degree viewing angles in all directions, but they are far more glossy and reflective than a Flexview is.

I hope this helps.
I honestly think you will have no serious issue with the 14.1".

I highly doubt that Dell spec's a Samsung panel for the 700m. My guess is that it is a much cheaper panel.

edit: you are talking about the 12" Dell 700m with the glossy panel? I have no idea what that screen is. I know it is an inexpensive system that Dell is "second sourcing" from some manufacturer, basically a "rebadge."
You could find out information on it on www.notebookforums.com

Andrew
Austin, TX

#7 Post by **daeojkim** » Tue Apr 26, 2005 12:20 am

I have both flexview on A31p and the SXGA+ on fvu.

I don't really have any problem with the fvu screen. Hoever the flexview's viewing angle is much better.

May be it's just me but I never had problem with viewing angle on the SXGA+.

dvorak · #8 Post by **dvorak** » Tue Apr 26, 2005 1:31 am

Well, in reply to a_d_y_a, I have to say I still would've bought a Thinkpad. Although yes, the screen does bother me a bit, heck it stops me from doing any graphics work (;)) but I'm hoping when I have the time to write IBM and ask if it's possible to replace it with the new Hydis screen. I've currenty had bad experience with Samsung's LCDs and unfortunately there's no sweet spot on these too, as someone mentioned, so I'm hoping to see if Hydis' are better in quality.

You could always get a 15" model, it'll definitely be better (regarding displays), but at the time of my purchase, I was looking for the most portable yet I needed a CD-drive, so the 14.1" was my only choice.

#9 Post by **aamsel** » Tue Apr 26, 2005 1:37 am

I have the Hydis screen on my new T43.
The viewing angle is perhaps a "hair" better vertically, about the same horizontally as the Samsung.
Overall, the Hydis is a bit brighter than the Samsung.
Also the "darker at top, lighter at bottom" issue is less pronounced.

It is not a Hydis panel such as is used on the Motion and Fujitsu Tablet PC's by any stretch of the imagination (those have 160-180 degree angles every direction) but I would say that it is a small step up from the Samsung.

Andrew
Austin, TX

a_d_y_a · #10 Post by **a_d_y_a** » Tue Apr 26, 2005 9:14 am

thank you all for ur great replies

so basically in conclusion

1. hydis screen is better than the samsung one

2. almost all 14.1 sxga+ screens suck

2b. 15" flewxview rocks, but it is way too heavy ( 24% bulkier and 16% more heavy)

3. no one can compare the tp's screen to the 700m ( except me when i get mine hopefully)

4. ibm t42 is still worth it

5. u will still be happy after spending so much money!

any coatings like the 3m one can they help?

Leon · #11 Post by **Leon** » Tue Apr 26, 2005 9:22 am

I spend many hours each day in front of my "sucky" 14.1 sxga+ screen with no problems

.

dvorak · #12 Post by **dvorak** » Tue Apr 26, 2005 1:27 pm

aamsel wrote:I have the Hydis screen on my new T43.
The viewing angle is perhaps a "hair" better vertically, about the same horizontally as the Samsung.
Overall, the Hydis is a bit brighter than the Samsung.
Also the "darker at top, lighter at bottom" issue is less pronounced.

It is not a Hydis panel such as is used on the Motion and Fujitsu Tablet PC's by any stretch of the imagination (those have 160-180 degree angles every direction) but I would say that it is a small step up from the Samsung.

Andrew
Austin, TX

Thanks, I've been looking for something to conclude the changes :)

I suppose the screens should be compatible with T42's, so I'll contact IBM one day and discuss replacing my screen. I'm suspecting newer technology has also eliminated slow-red pixels I've come across on all of my displays.
A bit "afraid" though to get stuck/dead pixels :)

#13 Post by **aamsel** » Tue Apr 26, 2005 3:30 pm

Just keep in mind that I said "perhaps a hair better" on vertical viewing angle. It may be my imagination and be no different.

The main thing I see is a bit more brightness on the Hydis.

This is a visual analysis, I didn't have a light gun or anything to check it.

Just don't want you to be disappointed.

Also, I don't know that the Hydis panel represents "newer technology". It could be the exact same genre as the Samsung, could be better could be worse. Again, my analysis is just my "aging eyeball" evaluation. YMMV.

Looks like I will probably stay with the CTO T43 I just got to keep the Hydis and IBM a/b/g, although I will also keep the (run for your lives, I am going to say it again).........slightly louder fan!

Andrew
Austin, TX

a_d_y_a · #14 Post by **a_d_y_a** » Tue Apr 26, 2005 5:51 pm

thanks everybody for the input.

i have found a friend who is willing to share his t42 for an hour.. i hoep to find out more

aditya

#15 Post by **aamsel** » Tue Apr 26, 2005 6:41 pm

Take his serial number and do a parts lookup.
Then you will know exactly which LCD panel he has.

Andrew
Austin, TX

a_d_y_a wrote:thanks everybody for the input.

i have found a friend who is willing to share his t42 for an hour.. i hoep to find out more

aditya

a_d_y_a · #16 Post by **a_d_y_a** » Wed Apr 27, 2005 12:52 am

i got to play with the lappy for less tijme as he was in a hurry or didnt want to part with it for a long time

part nmber was 2373 h12 or h13

the lcd was a XGA with a 7500 1.5ghz, 512mb

the system did not feel sluggish...

the screen was pale ..but usable.. and much better than 700m esp without the [censored] reflections.

how do u think would be the sxga+ ? brighter, crisper, more vibrant?

i sure hope so..

#17 Post by **aamsel** » Wed Apr 27, 2005 1:06 am

It will be different.
The overall brightness level will be about the same. If it was a recent XGA model it will be 150 nits of brightness, same as the SXGA+. More vibrant, I can't say. Crisper, yes, because there are far more pixels for the same amount of screen space. Text is much smoother, far less pixelated, since, again, there are far more pixels.

I can't stand the reflections on the glossy screens such as the 700m, SONY XBrite, etc. and that seems like 95 percent of what you see from manufacturers other than IBM.
Glare equals eye strain, which is a no-go for me and many users.

Order one. Chances are you will love it, if not...30 days to return it.

You were talking the 2378FVU so it is 95 percent + going to be a Samsung.

The viewing angles may be poor, but the T42/T43 is a super-high quality notebook with great support. Since it has a standard matte LCD it will be much, much easier on your eyes for extended use. That is why IBM uses them.

Andrew
Austin, TX

a_d_y_a wrote:i got to play with the lappy for less tijme as he was in a hurry or didnt want to part with it for a long time

part nmber was 2373 h12 or h13

the lcd was a XGA with a 7500 1.5ghz, 512mb

the system did not feel sluggish...

the screen was pale ..but usable.. and much better than 700m esp without the [censored] reflections.

how do u think would be the sxga+ ? brighter, crisper, more vibrant?

i sure hope so..

furball4 · #18 Post by **furball4** » Thu May 12, 2005 8:10 pm

Just received a DXU (15" SXGA+ FlexView) and while I love the screen anyway, I have to say I am surprised at how bad the viewing angles seem to me. There is not even a sweet spot on mine - I can stare at it dead on and see prominent color variations both vertically and horizontally.

That said, once I get about 40 degrees off horizontally or vertically, it is uniform all the way to 90 degrees and still bright and readable. So the extreme angles are great. But I didn't really care about them in the first place... I would rather have no variation in a 20 degree area and then have it go completely black than to have it like it is.

I do agree with some of the other posters that it seems like it might be a backlighting issue. It has more to do with brightness and less with contrast. As a result it is less annoying than the kind of viewing angles I was used to on my T20, which was good old-fashioned washout. However, while I'm still happy with the screen overall (love the size, colors and resolution), I thought I was going to get rock-solid uniformity straight on and I definitely did not.

Is my description surprising to anyone? It could be I have a quirky backlight or something.

Viewing angles

Viewing angles

why then

Re: why then

great

the look

Re: the look

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