"Fan error" - replace assembly, replace fan, or repair?

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Think-Machine · #1 Post by **Think-Machine** » Thu Sep 20, 2012 6:35 pm

I have a T42p. For a while, I have been getting "Fan Error" messages at boot. Recently, the fan started making annoying noise. Now, it has stopped spinning altogether.

What is the best way to proceed? Fan assemblies (long fan) are hard to obtain and expensive even on the 2nd hand market.

Is it possible to buy a different (cheaper) fan assembly (e.g. short fan), extract the actual fan (the "spinning" part) and put it into the original copper part?

Is it even possible to just repair the fan as is, without having to buy new parts?

Think-Machine · #2 Post by **Think-Machine** » Thu Sep 20, 2012 6:41 pm

I'm also interested if you folks could tell me if it is feasible to just run a thinkpad without any working fan. While doing regular work on the thinkpad. For an extended period of time.

Say with reduced speed. I have a 2.1GHz processor which is capable of running at 0.6GHz. So presumably things would heat up much slower then.

Will this fry the electronics right away, or is that setup good enough for at least a couple of weeks before something fries?

ajkula66 · #3 Post by **ajkula66** » Thu Sep 20, 2012 9:08 pm

Running a machine without the fan for more than a minute or so is a horrendously bad idea.

Would you rather spend $20-30 on a heatsink assembly, or a $100+ on a good motherboard? The choice sounds simple to me...

#4 Post by **Tasurinchi** » Fri Sep 21, 2012 2:21 am

Think-Machine wrote:Fan assemblies (long fan) are hard to obtain and expensive even on the 2nd hand market.

I had the impression that they were easy to obtain, I was keeping an eye on Ebay to get some extra fans just in case and they didn't seem expensive (around 25$), or rare. Have you checked the Marketplace here in the forum?

Think-Machine wrote:Is it possible to buy a different (cheaper) fan assembly (e.g. short fan), extract the actual fan (the "spinning" part) and put it into the original copper part?

People has replaced the spinning fans itself for T6x heatsink models, I guess it can be also done for the T4x ones. I don't know if the difference in price is worth though...

#5 Post by **RealBlackStuff** » Fri Sep 21, 2012 6:50 am

Check out our "sister site" in Germany: http://thinkpad-forum.de/forums/7-Marktplatz

IbmPad · #6 Post by **IbmPad** » Fri Sep 21, 2012 6:55 am

I had a fan issue two years ago and used my T42p for several months without a fan and as long as the room temp was not too high (it was mainly in summer) I could keep very acceptable temps, even though I think it was not a good thing for the mainboard.

My humble opinion is that until you fix/replace the fan, you can continue using your T42p if you underclock and undervolt your CPU & GPU. Just to test it I have manually disabled my fan and forced the CPU to run at the lowest multiplier. It is currently 18°C in my room and I launched Prime95 for 5 minutes and the CPU temp is 41°C and did not go over, GPU temp is 43°C. After 20 minutes in standby mode, the temps have decreased to 28°C (CPU) and 31°C (GPU). After 20 minutes of normal use, temps are now 36°C (CPU) and 40°C (GPU). I think they would continue to slowy increase during the day, but that would stay very acceptable...

ajkula66 · #7 Post by **ajkula66** » Fri Sep 21, 2012 7:22 am

Given that these machines are prone to BGA failures of both GPU and SouthBridge areas, keeping them at a stable temperatures and properly ventilated is a must in my not-so-humble opinion.

Do note that you can also utilize the M24 fan from T43/p, and these are even less expensive than the original M10 ones. They are more audible, though.

uberT · #8 Post by **uberT** » Fri Sep 21, 2012 1:57 pm

I just purchased the (OE) M10 long fan for our T43 last week and installed it. Fairly simple. eBay cost was ~ $30. This new fan is much quieter compared to the original, failing T43 fan.

Think-Machine · #9 Post by **Think-Machine** » Fri Sep 21, 2012 3:51 pm

Thanks to everyone for the very helpful replies!

ajkula66 wrote:Would you rather spend $20-30 on a heatsink assembly, or a $100+ on a good motherboard?

If it was just a matter of spending $100 once in a lifetime, and then have a perfectly silent fanless machine, I'd certainly do it. But I don't think it will last forever, and I don't want to replace motherboards again and again...

Think-Machine · #10 Post by **Think-Machine** » Fri Sep 21, 2012 3:56 pm

Tasurinchi wrote:I was keeping an eye on Ebay to get some extra fans just in case and they didn't seem expensive (around 25$), or rare. Have you checked the Marketplace here in the forum?

OK, if you start keeping an eye out while your fan still works, then I'm sure you can pick up good deals. Good idea. Mine doesn't, so I'm under more time pressure.

The marketplace does not currently seem to offer anything I could use. As far as I can see.

Think-Machine · #11 Post by **Think-Machine** » Fri Sep 21, 2012 3:59 pm

IbmPad wrote:I had a fan issue two years ago and used my T42p for several months without a fan and as long as the room temp was not too high (it was mainly in summer) I could keep very acceptable temps, even though I think it was not a good thing for the mainboard.

My humble opinion is that until you fix/replace the fan, you can continue using your T42p if you underclock and undervolt your CPU & GPU.

This is great news! Thanks! So if I'm careful I can keep working for now, while keeping an eye open for a new fan?

Do I need to do something to the BIOS (flash etc.), or can I underclock and undervolt from software?

Think-Machine · #12 Post by **Think-Machine** » Fri Sep 21, 2012 4:03 pm

ajkula66 wrote:Given that these machines are prone to BGA failures of both GPU and SouthBridge areas, keeping them at a stable temperatures and properly ventilated is a must in my not-so-humble opinion.

Do note that you can also utilize the M24 fan from T43/p, and these are even less expensive than the original M10 ones. They are more audible, though.

What's a BGA?

Thanks for the M24 info, it's good to know. I find the noise of the original fan (M10 apparently) already somewhat annoying at its second-lowest speed (the lowest speed is 0, which is of course silent), and when it spins fast (heavy CPU load for extended period) I find the noise appalling. And that was while it was new.

#13 Post by **Tasurinchi** » Fri Sep 21, 2012 4:28 pm

Think-Machine wrote:Mine doesn't, so I'm under more time pressure.

You can check here how long they need to ship the fan... Even cheaper than what I thought...

Think-Machine · #14 Post by **Think-Machine** » Fri Sep 21, 2012 6:19 pm

Tasurinchi wrote:You can check here how long they need to ship the fan... Even cheaper than what I thought...

The price is great. Looks like the wrong model though: the Hardware Manual distinguishes between the "Fan assembly (long)", P/N 13N5442, which is offered in your link, and the "Fan assembly (long) M10", P/N 13R2657, which is what I need. Are they compatible? I don't know. If so, why does IBM/Lenovo bother to list them separately, and list my model # only for the M10?

And that is one of the problems for people like me, who will exchange this item only once in a lifetime: it is hard to figure out exactly which replacement parts are compatible enough to fit.

ajkula66 · #15 Post by **ajkula66** » Fri Sep 21, 2012 6:25 pm

Think-Machine wrote: The price is great. Looks like the wrong model though: the Hardware Manual distinguishes between the "Fan assembly (long)", P/N 13N5442, which is offered in your link, and the "Fan assembly (long) M10", P/N 13R2657, which is what I need. Are they compatible? I don't know. If so, why does IBM/Lenovo bother to list them separately, and list my model # only for the M10?

That's a M9 fan which will work, but has slightly weaker cooling properties.

This is *the* proper fan:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Long-Fan-Heatsi ... 2a228932fe

And that is one of the problems for people like me, who will exchange this item only once in a lifetime: it is hard to figure out exactly which replacement parts are compatible enough to fit.

That's why God Himself and Bill Morrow created the ThinkPad Forum...

Think-Machine · #16 Post by **Think-Machine** » Sat Sep 22, 2012 9:27 am

ajkula66 wrote: That's a M9 fan which will work, but has slightly weaker cooling properties.

This is *the* proper fan:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Long-Fan-Heatsi ... 2a228932fe

Oh, another fan. I didn't know about the M9 until now.

OK. So what I think I know now is that there are 3 fans that fit in an T42p:

M10: the original, the best, the proper fan
M24: from T43, very noisy
M9: slightly weaker cooling properties

Is that correct?

Also, does any of this depend on which T42p I have? The hardware manual lists several types of fan for different versions...

ajkula66 · #17 Post by **ajkula66** » Sat Sep 22, 2012 9:39 am

Think-Machine wrote:Oh, another fan. I didn't know about the M9 until now.

OK. So what I think I know now is that there are 3 fans that fit in an T42p:

M10: the original, the best, the proper fan

M24: from T43, very noisy

M9: slightly weaker cooling properties
Is that correct?

Yes.

Also, does any of this depend on which T42p I have? The hardware manual lists several types of fan for different versions...

No. All T42/p units with stronger graphics (ATi 9000/9600/Fire GL T2) use the long fan, there are just different revisions of it, and any of them will work just fine.

Orclas · #18 Post by **Orclas** » Sat Sep 22, 2012 5:14 pm

Think-Machine wrote:Do I need to do something to the BIOS (flash etc.), or can I underclock and undervolt from software?

Notebook Hardware Control can take care of it. I have undervolted my T40 some 20%, fully stable and a lot cooler.

Think-Machine · #19 Post by **Think-Machine** » Tue Jan 08, 2013 6:19 pm

Thanks everyone for your help with selecting the fans. I got hold of a M24 and put it in. A couple of questions came up:

The heatsink does not have the rubber part between copper and GPU chip. Was that required?
How fast is the temperature (CPU) supposed to rise while testing? I managed it to get up by 30 C (50 F) in less than 20 seconds under full load. Does that mean that the CPU is not cooled properly?

systemBuilder · #20 Post by **systemBuilder** » Wed Jan 16, 2013 11:51 pm

I had a fan error on our T42, I bought a long fan on ebay ($20), and replaced the whole assembly. The problem reoccurred surprisingly soon (like in 6 months) and I was out another $20 rather quickly.

Last week I decided to put together our "parts donor laptop" I'm typing on the parts donor laptop right now, which has been put into like-new condition (new 160 GB disk, 2nd hand LCD, new FAN, new keyboard).

I took out the long fan, and used a dremel to drill out the rivet pins on the back of the fan, then pushed the fan off the heatsink. I also used a set of pliers to loosen some tabs that held the fan to the heatsink. I bought a collection of 5x fans from China for $20 on ebay. My original intent was to stockpile fans (one per laptop) in case they went out of production, ever.

I took a new fan and mounted it on my heatsink. I used elmer's glue to hold the metal foil to the exhaust fins, making a tight seal. I used white silicone glue to hold the fan to the heat sink itself. I was going to use duct tape, as suggested elsewhere in this forum but it just looked like too much of a kluge after I did it, so I removed the duct tape and used silicone glue. I probably now have a seal between the fan and heatsink that is better than an OEM fan. I put the whole contraption back together using toothpaste for CPU thermal bonding (did you know that sodium fluoride has a thermal conductivity that's 1/3rd of pure silver, and about three orders of magnitude better than an air gap?)

Here is the type of fan I bought (thinkpad / lenovo T4x fan), I think I got a screaming deal at $4/ea as these ones are $7/ea :

http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-Genuine-FOR ... 2ec223e01f

Here is a search for the sellers of fans that will work. I believe that the same fan is used on all T4x laptops :

http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_trksid= ... &_from=R40

Anyway, I'm happy with my repair work so far !!!

- Don

#21 Post by **RealBlackStuff** » Thu Jan 17, 2013 7:50 am

What you do with your machines is entirely your business.
But obviously you never read any of the other VERY informative posts from other people...
Toothpaste an a CPU in a T42?
I rest my case.

systemBuilder · #22 Post by **systemBuilder** » Thu Jan 17, 2013 9:53 pm

I studied the issue of thermal conductance for day, and made a table of 20 different chemical elements and their thermal conductivity, and also read several online benchmark results of the performance of toothpaste vs. these exotic and expensive thermal compounds that (neo-shysters) sell on ebay.

I also think it's important to understand that any thermal compound has a high percentage of silicone grease, which has a thermal conductivity of about 0.5 W-M/K vs. Sodium Flouride (130) and silver (430). So you're already cutting down the performance of pure silver in any "arctic silver" compound, and in this respect toothpaste starts to look pretty good.

People do it every day, and this laptop has been working for 4 years on toothpaste already, it's not rocket science but you need to master the laws of physics to understand why thermodynamics makes toothpaste a good choice for a heatsink paste.

mdurisseau · #23 Post by **mdurisseau** » Tue Jan 22, 2013 4:49 pm

I've got a machine that is giving the 'Fan error' message, but I've got a good, working fan in it...is the system board bad?

#24 Post by **RealBlackStuff** » Tue Jan 22, 2013 5:50 pm

Have a look at this thermal-compound comparison:
http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.ph ... 89#p680489
Notice where toothpaste is placed?

ajkula66 · #25 Post by **ajkula66** » Tue Jan 22, 2013 5:57 pm

mdurisseau wrote:I've got a machine that is giving the 'Fan error' message, but I've got a good, working fan in it...is the system board bad?

If the fan was proven good in another machine, then yes, the board is most likely defective.

mdurisseau · #26 Post by **mdurisseau** » Tue Jan 22, 2013 6:00 pm

I just connected the fan briefly to an external power source...I don't have another T40/T50 to test it in.

ajkula66 · #27 Post by **ajkula66** » Tue Jan 22, 2013 6:18 pm

mdurisseau wrote:I just connected the fan briefly to an external power source...I don't have another T40/T50 to test it in.

Fan connector is shared within most ThinkPad models...if you have another machine, you can give it a shot there...

"Fan error" - replace assembly, replace fan, or repair?

"Fan error" - replace assembly, replace fan, or repair?

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