T41 sometimes crashes out of the blue

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feklee · #1 Post by **feklee** » Thu Oct 18, 2012 3:34 am

My T41 sometimes, and totally randomly, crashes. It just halts, with the mouse cursor non-movable. I don't think it's a software problem as I have seen it even right after booting into WinXP. Also, I already did lengthy tests with the usual HDD and RAM test tools. Any idea what else may be the reason?

The last crash has been something like a week ago, but on some days I have seen the machine crash several times. My suspicion is that there is some crack or loose contact.

Possibly related: The machine is now more than eight years old. Would it make sense to replace the BIOS battery?

DaKKS · #2 Post by **DaKKS** » Thu Oct 18, 2012 3:40 am

Swapping out the bios battery will probably do nothing, but if you have the part, it wont do any harm either.

I'd rather guess you've got the gpu issue. My T41 had the same symptoms. Just a sudden freeze and then nowt. A few weeks after that it refused to boot completely. I can get it to POST if i press hard on the GPU, but a few seconds after that it goes blank again.

feklee · #3 Post by **feklee** » Thu Oct 18, 2012 4:42 am

DaKKS wrote:it refused to boot completely

I had that problem a few weeks ago too. I then disabled part of the networking interface in the BIOS, and that did the trick. Some notes that I took back then:

I closed the lid of the laptop, and it went into suspend to RAM. When I came back later, I found it in suspend to disk. So, I pressed the power button, and saw an error message during boot, something like: The LAN adapter's configuration is corrupted or has not been initialized. The Boot Agent cannot continue.
I tried out several options in the BIOS, until disabling the following option finally got the machine to boot: Config / Network / Internal Network Option ROM
I also changed boot order so that only the primary HDD is active.

I can get it to POST if i press hard on the GPU, but a few seconds after that it goes blank again.

The screen was never blank, though. The system freezes. Once, for example, it froze during a HDD access, and the green HDD light kept glowing forever.

Orclas · #4 Post by **Orclas** » Thu Oct 18, 2012 4:58 am

It could also be the infamous Southbridge/GPU solder problem. In such case your MB is dying and you either have to replace it or have it professionally reballed by folks like poshgeordie or RealBlackStuff.

I'm sure one of them or both will soon stop by here, RBS just has to wake up first (he's a yank).

DaKKS · #5 Post by **DaKKS** » Thu Oct 18, 2012 5:03 am

feklee wrote: I had that problem a few weeks ago too. I then disabled part of the networking interface in the BIOS, and that did the trick. Some notes that I took back then:

I closed the lid of the laptop, and it went into suspend to RAM. When I came back later, I found it in suspend to disk. So, I pressed the power button, and saw an error message during boot, something like: The LAN adapter's configuration is corrupted or has not been initialized. The Boot Agent cannot continue.

I tried out several options in the BIOS, until disabling the following option finally got the machine to boot: Config / Network / Internal Network Option ROM

I also changed boot order so that only the primary HDD is active.

The screen was never blank, though. The system freezes. Once, for example, it froze during a HDD access, and the green HDD light kept glowing forever.

Mate, I have five and a half T4X rigs. Each and every one of them did the same thing weeks before the GPU died. First it freezes randomly, then a few weeks later, it freezes and then the screen goes blank (still works after reboot), and a few weeks after that it does completely and gives blanks screen and max fan speed when i turn them on.

feklee · #6 Post by **feklee** » Thu Oct 18, 2012 5:14 am

DaKKS wrote: Mate, I have five and a half T4X rigs. Each and every one of them did the same thing weeks before the GPU died.

I had that problem five years ago, and the main board got replaced on warranty. In fact, that had been the second main board replacement.

I think this issue is different: The freezes have been happening already for a year or so. In a way, it's no surprise: The machine is more than eight years old. It has traveled a lot and has fallen down a couple of times.

DaKKS · #7 Post by **DaKKS** » Thu Oct 18, 2012 5:26 am

feklee wrote:I had that problem five years ago, and the main board got replaced on warranty. In fact, that had been the second main board replacement.

I think this issue is different: The freezes have been happening already for a year or so. In a way, it's no surprise: The machine is more than eight years old. It has traveled a lot and has fallen down a couple of times.

Argh, yev got a mystery on ye hands, matey.

My second guess would've been the hard drive, but if that's fine, i'm frankly out of ideas. Do a clean wipe and reinstall everything. That's always my first step when faced with a possible hardware problem. Do a proper bench and stress test on it too. And by proper i mean, 3d and CPU for 6+ hours.

feklee · #8 Post by **feklee** » Thu Oct 18, 2012 5:30 am

DaKKS wrote:Do a clean wipe and reinstall everything.

Nah, that will take forever. My system is well managed, and I don't think it's a software issue.

3d and CPU for 6+ hours.

OK, GPU and CPU I've not stress tested, only RAM and HDD (with manufacturer's tool, extensive test).

DaKKS · #9 Post by **DaKKS** » Thu Oct 18, 2012 5:45 am

feklee wrote: Nah, that will take forever. My system is well managed, and I don't think it's a software issue.

OK, GPU and CPU I've not stress tested, only RAM and HDD (with manufacturer's tool, extensive test).

Mate, I was once given three non working SSDs. You know what the issue was? The computer BIOS was set to AHCI and they were installing XP (pre-SP1). The T42 i have now was given to me brand new (ie a week old) because it wouldn't boot. One ram module had to be reseated and then it worked fine.

I'm not saying your system management skills are bad or anything, but you never know if its something so simple that you wont think of it. A clean install should always be the first thing you do. I learned that after i replaced the HDD in mt t42 before checking if it wasn't a software issue. 90USD out the window.

feklee · #10 Post by **feklee** » Thu Oct 18, 2012 5:49 am

DaKKS wrote:A clean install should always be the first thing you do.

That will take me a full day at least.

90USD out the window.

A day is worth more that that.

#11 Post by **RealBlackStuff** » Thu Oct 18, 2012 6:45 am

Orclas wrote:RBS just has to wake up first (he's a yank).

I take umbrage to that! I'm Irish!

@Feklee:
Yours is not a GPU but a Southbridge problem.
Take the palmrest and the wifi card off, then put pressure on different parts of the big Intel chip you find under the wifi card.
If it now boots, or remains stable, you found your culprit.
If you want it reballed, poshgeordie in the UK is your best bet.
I have only one T42-suitable board left (but it has no audio), plus several T43/R52 boards with Intel graphics.
If you put in a T43/R52 board, you also need a new CPU and RAM, the rest is the same.
BUT, you will also have to install Windows new!

feklee · #12 Post by **feklee** » Thu Oct 18, 2012 7:18 am

RealBlackStuff wrote:Take the palmrest and the wifi card off, then put pressure on different parts of the big Intel chip you find under the wifi card.
If it now boots, or remains stable, you found your culprit.

Thanks for the suggestion! However, I believe that it's hard to find the culprit. Normally it's like this: 1. machine freezes, 2. I reboot, 3. machine runs for days or weeks without freeze

#13 Post by **RealBlackStuff** » Thu Oct 18, 2012 8:36 am

Please fill in your Location and City, State (or City, Country) in the User Control Panel's Profile.
It makes it easier for us to come up with specific help.

Orclas · #14 Post by **Orclas** » Thu Oct 18, 2012 8:50 am

RealBlackStuff wrote:I take umbrage to that! I'm Irish!

My sincere apologies

Now your combination of nick and location finally makes full sense.

(and this is the second time in just a week or two that I've had to google a word used by someone here, other time was ajkula's use of "finagling"

)

poshgeordie · #15 Post by **poshgeordie** » Sat Oct 20, 2012 4:39 am

Orclas wrote:Now your combination of nick and location finally makes full sense.

Now I take Umbrage that I'm now just a combination!!!

Just kidding!

It sounds classic unsoldered Southbridge, very common on these boards.

Do you live in UK or Europe and if so I'll be able to reball the SB chip for you at a good price.

feklee · #16 Post by **feklee** » Sat Oct 20, 2012 4:48 am

poshgeordie wrote:It sounds classic unsoldered Southbridge, very common on these boards.

I think I had that already. The mainboard got replaced twice by IBM: once because of USB issues, once because of the GPU

Do you live in UK or Europe and if so I'll be able to reball the SB chip for you at a good price.

Thanks for the offer. However, this would mean sending the machine, which at the moment is not an option. That is, unless you are around Baden-Baden, Germany.

#17 Post by **RealBlackStuff** » Sat Oct 20, 2012 9:31 am

@feklee:

I repeat:
Please fill in your Location and City, State (or City, Country) in the User Control Panel's Profile.
It makes it easier for us to come up with specific help.

feklee · #18 Post by **feklee** » Sat Oct 20, 2012 10:39 am

RealBlackStuff wrote:Please fill in your Location and City, State (or City, Country) in the User Control Panel's Profile.

That changes all the time, and in the end I prefer providing no information to providing outdated, i.e. bad, information.

Orclas · #19 Post by **Orclas** » Sat Oct 20, 2012 4:43 pm

feklee wrote:I think I had that already. The mainboard got replaced twice by IBM: once because of USB issues, once because of the GPU

That doesn't exclude it being the case again, chances are that the replacement MB's had the same original solder problem, which tends to show after a few years of slight chassis flex and temp changes.

It may ofc not be so, but it's a very common problem with T40-42s (slightly less with T43s iirc).

Edit: Have you tried the pressing-parts-thing that RBS suggested.

feklee · #20 Post by **feklee** » Sat Oct 20, 2012 5:35 pm

Orclas wrote:Have you tried the pressing-parts-thing that RBS suggested.

1. I don't have the GPU problem that he mentioned, and 2. after rebooting, the system normally runs without freeze again for days or weeks. So, I would have to press for days or weeks to see if that has any effect...

ajkula66 · #21 Post by **ajkula66** » Sat Oct 20, 2012 6:14 pm

feklee wrote:. after rebooting, the system normally runs without freeze again for days or weeks. So, I would have to press for days or weeks to see if that has any effect...

No you wouldn't.

You'd have to wait for the system to freeze and *then* press on the SouthBridge chip.

On a whole another note: unless Bill Morrow states differently for your specific case, location is a *requirement* NOT an option...

feklee · #22 Post by **feklee** » Sun Oct 21, 2012 3:06 am

ajkula66 wrote:You'd have to wait for the system to freeze and *then* press on the SouthBridge chip.

Thanks for pointing that out! First I would have to open the running (well frozen) machine, though.

#23 Post by **RealBlackStuff** » Sun Oct 21, 2012 4:27 am

You seem to be rather obstinate and you also have an 'answer' for everything we suggest.
I suggest you go find help elsewhere OR change your tune...

ajkula66 · #24 Post by **ajkula66** » Sun Oct 21, 2012 9:06 am

feklee wrote: Thanks for pointing that out! First I would have to open the running (well frozen) machine, though.

Not necessarily.

In my far-from-modest experience with these machines, pressing the touchpad in a couple of different spots will "release" the freezing in 4 out of 5 cases, if the SouthBridge is the culprit.

On another note, the quantum of attitude displayed in postings looking for help is usually directly inverse to the amount of help that one is likely to receive from other members of this friendly and knowledgeable forum...

feklee · #25 Post by **feklee** » Sun Oct 21, 2012 10:39 am

ajkula66 wrote:pressing the touchpad in a couple of different spots will "release" the freezing in 4 out of 5 cases, if the SouthBridge is the culprit.

Thanks a lot! I am now almost looking forward to the next freeze.

feklee · #26 Post by **feklee** » Sat Dec 28, 2013 5:40 pm

The freezes eventually stopped, but over the past months there has been a BSOD about once per day.

Memory tests, surface scans of the HDDs (HD Tune), ATI SMARTGUART, and the Intel Diagnosic Tool showed no errors.

However, all these months I ignored an important parameter: The S.M.A.R.T. status of the HDDs. According to SpeedFan, the HDD that I had in the UltraBay is of very bad health, and this HDD contained the Windows swap file!

Yesterday, I stopped using the UltraBay HDD for swap, and so far the system feels very stable.

Orclas · #27 Post by **Orclas** » Sat Dec 28, 2013 7:05 pm

If that's actually the culprit, then you've been quite lucky managing to run a dying drive for more than a year. Now lets hope you've found the problem and will have some smooth sailing with your T41

feklee · #28 Post by **feklee** » Sun Dec 29, 2013 3:19 am

Orclas wrote:If that's actually the culprit, then you've been quite lucky managing to run a dying drive for more than a year.

Fortunately, the OS and all important data is on the main disk (Hitachi HTS541010G9AT00). The disk in the UltraBay (Samsung HM160HC) was primarily a target for daily incremental backups with Acronis TrueImage, and I used it for swap.

Yesterday, I exchanged the broken 160GB disk for an old 40GB one (HTS541040G9AT00). This disk is too small for the backups, but I plan to upgrade the entire system anyhow: Next to my T41 sits a refurbished T410s. Ironically I cannot use it yet. Guess why? Its HDD has bad sectors!

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