G40, any good?

[DaKKS]

I have the chance to buy a working G40 for around 100 bucks. Battery does still take a charge, although how much is unclear, and the machine works well overall. Pentium 4 2.4ghz, 768mb ram, 120gb hdd (the drive being brand new and worth over half the asking price in itself.)

In my limited experience with any TP beside the T4X series, these seem to be few and far between. And a working G series is almost impossible to find, at least over here. I don't really need it per se, but it might be a fun thing to keep around and tinker with. And if nothing else, it fits nicely between the Butterfly and the 860 in the IT museum section at school. I mean, you can count on two hands the number of laptops that had desktops CPU's.

Cheers

[ac12]

I have a G40.
It is a usable Win-XP or Linux platform.
I do not think you can run Win7 on it. No Win7 graphics driver.

You can put max 2GB of RAM in it, I did.
That works better than 1GB, less disk swapping.

But the graphics is old, and can't handle some of the new stuff on the web, so some web sites seem to run slow.

[Medessec]

I'm very interested in the G-series at the moment, I suppose how I can sum them up:

Pros:
-They look amazing, stylish
-Giant screen, giant keyboard, comfortable to use
-Three-spindle config(Floppy, CD drive, and a Hard Drive)
-Massively powerful desktop-grade processors, comparable to low-clocked Core Duo processors. Brilliant for video editing, decoding media, web servers, etc. Anything CPU-intensive, this computer will eat it.

Cons:
-Massively massive. These computers are unwieldy, can't fit into most laptop cases, and at 8 pounds, not exactly something you want in your backpack when biking to campus(I'm a college student.)
-High-maintenance. It's important to make sure dust doesn't build up in the fans, and that the fans can spin smoothly. Overheating was a common issue on the really high-clocked Pentium 4s.
-No hot-plug Ultrabay. Although this laptop does feature an Ultrabay drive, unlike the T-series and other Thinkpads, you can't hot-swap it(remove it on the fly.)
-Battery life, power consumption. These things don't spare on power, and as a result, they don't get any more than 2 hours of battery life. The batteries also don't have as good lifespans.

I have several G41s at the moment, and those things are amazing. The G40 is also very good. $100 is a deal- as long as it came in pretty good condition and with an OS. Indeed-the graphics in these things are no good... not for much better than typical web browsing and some video watching. Some G41s were CTO with GeForce Go 5200, but these are very rare. I'm trying to get my hands on one for the sake of benchmarking, and to hopefully make the most epic possible G4x laptop- a G41 with the NVIDIA GeForce Go 5200, and an Intel Pentium 4 with Hyper-Threading at 3.4 GHz, the highest they were clocked.

But yes- the G40/41s are quite unusual compared to the rest of the Thinkpad line, especially of the time. They were also one of the last machines to be made by IBM before Lenovo picked up building them. The main reason I like them is because they're just so absurdly big and made to be extremely powerful, it kind of almost defeats the point of it being a laptop.

[dr_st]

I must say that I haven't seen one in real-life, but having seen some pictures, I could not get attached to the looks of a G4x machine. Too thick, too angular, with a strange-looking clutter of ports under other ports, and huge vents. Also, asymmetric hinges have always been a personal turn-off for me, and the G4x take it to the extreme.

The screen and keyboard BTW are not bigger nor more comfortable than a 15" T4x.

However, as a concept machine, the G4x have merit. Many users still feel comfortable with T4x-era Pentium M machines performance-wise, and the high-end P4-HT will beat those. As you say, they may be comparable to low-end mobile dual-core machines in some ways. Of course they can't hold a candle to even the lowest-end desktop dual core CPUs, and as such make little sense these days. But looking back to when they were build - I can certainly see the justifications.

[pianowizard]

Take a look at an old thread with lots of photos of the 15" G41 that I had: http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.php?t=64360

I must say that I haven't seen one in real-life, but having seen some pictures, I could not get attached to the looks of a G4x machine. Too thick, too angular, with a strange-looking clutter of ports under other ports, and huge vents. Also, asymmetric hinges have always been a personal turn-off for me, and the G4x take it to the extreme.

I loved my G41 very much. It looks much nicer in person. By contrast, it's the opposite for most of Lenovo's widescreen Thinkpads -- they look (even) worse in person than in photos.

However, as a concept machine, the G4x have merit. Many users still feel comfortable with T4x-era Pentium M machines performance-wise, and the high-end P4-HT will beat those. As you say, they may be comparable to low-end mobile dual-core machines in some ways. Of course they can't hold a candle to even the lowest-end desktop dual core CPUs, and as such make little sense these days. But looking back to when they were build - I can certainly see the justifications.

My G41 with 3.3GHz Pentium 4 (548) and 1GB PC2700 RAM was surprisingly capable, and even Vista Home Premium ran rather smoothly. But for me, the best merit of this G41 was that it felt as solid as a brick. For my somewhat detailed review of this laptop, go to the above-mentioned link and scroll down to the second-to-the-last post.

[Medessec]

Ah cool-that's a pretty awesome G41 you had. I've been trying really hard to gather the parts to make the epic G41 I mentioned... but it's kinda difficult, because of how unusual these machines are.

These machines aren't for everyone- but I just like them because of how unusual they are.

[Tasurinchi]

I have the chance to buy a working G40 for around 100 bucks.

I'd buy immediately with no hesitation. Those are rare models that were mostly sold in Japan IIRC. I remember seen few of these in my last trip to Osaka few years ago, they were big massive solid bad @ss notebooks (my A31 may even look small im comparison) and were being sold really cheap. I look back now and I feel like an idi0t for not buying one or more

If you don't buy that one send me the link and I'll do it...

Cheers

[pianowizard]

I believe the G40 and G41 were made by Acer. The G51 was sold only in Japan; not sure who made it.

[Medessec]

There was only the G40/41, and the G50. I imagine the G50 was also made by Acer, because most of the parts between the G41/G50 are nearly the same, and the outside appearance is almost exactly the same.

The G40/41s are very common, although not numerous, because they're not very desireable... they're not exactly considered classic or antique, and they're not particularly useful either, due to being rather immobile, and although having a decent CPU system, the graphics just don't make the cut for what's needed nowadays(Windows 7 Aero effects, HD video playback, low level gaming). Their reliability is also a bit questionable.

The G50-however, was only sold in Japan, yes, and it was made in small number. They featured Core Duo processors- which I'm certain means they could potentially be upgraded to a Core 2 Duo, (although I don't know if the BIOS was ever updated to support this, or if the chipset even supports it in the first place). They didn't feature any fancy NVIDIA or ATI graphics, but they did have the GMA 950, the same Intel gfx you see in the -60 gen Thinkpads(low-end T60s, low-end Z60/61, X60, etc). I think the GMA 950 is one of the best ever Intel gfx cards that gives a balance between capability and battery-life, cool-running, the typical goals of embedded graphics. G50s also probably have SATA instead of the IDE found on G40/41s.

I would LOVE to have a G50, but I don't think any are going to crop up around here in the US, and I'm certain if one did, I would probably miss it, or not be able to pay as much as another guy who wants a G50.

Btw-I have a couple of G40s and a G41 I might post on here to sell, if any of you are looking for one of your own, or to reunite with one. The G40s I have are Pentium 4s clocked at 2.8GHz, and I have a G41 with a 3.06 GHz Pentium 4 I might post. I've just sold a couple of G41s.

[ac12]

I have my G40 next to me, and its performance on web sites is much slower than my old desktop (which is due for a replacement). So even just simple web surfing is now taxing it, with the CPU at 100% opening up web sites.
sigh....

However, for non-web local apps like word processing and spreadsheet work, it seems to be just fine. Pretty easy to keep up with my fingers.

[Medessec]

Well-it also depends, all my G40s and G41s have fresh XP SP3 installs, and they browse the web and play YouTube videos reasonably well. They're a bit quicker than the T30s I have in-and note that although the T30s have older, tinier processors, they have the Radeon 7500 gfx.

The G40s also struggle a bit more to keep up with today than the G41s, because the G41s not only have higher clocked Pentium 4s, but the Pentium 4s have Hyper-Threading, giving them two logical processors. Compared to the G40, which has to funnel everything into one logical processor-it's easier for background programs and CPU-intensive software to choke out the performance.

I've got the last bit of parts on order for my "epic G41" and I'll assemble it in a few days... I really hope it turns out as well as it does.

[ac12]

Yup
My G40 has the slower 2.2GHz Celeron processor.
So it is CPU speed constrained as well.

As much as I like it, with the graphics limited and the RAM capped at 2GB. I have to stop putting more $ into it.

[Medessec]

I think 2GB of RAM is stellar for an XP install, and enough for a Vista/7 install, I put 1GB in all of mine, because unless you're doing any real work on your G40/41, you won't need any more than that.

The big issue with these machines is the graphics and the non-HT P4s in the G40s. They're very nice machines though, which is why my G41 project is going to have the NVIDIA config, but you have to put some money in to find one of those... there is a seller on ebay right now selling refurbished G41s in the "epic", highest-spec config right now, for $160. Which I think is a pretty nice deal, but I've always been skeptical about sellers like that...

[winslow]

My G41 was the first "laptop" I bought new directly from IBM. (My first laptop was a used T23 off ebay). It has 256 dedicated NVIDEA graphics. It was designed as a mobile desktop. It is bulky but in it's day was about the most powerfull laptop available.

[Medessec]

Looks like yours has the 3.33GHz Pentium 4 HT, the second fastest processor put in these things. The NVIDIA config is very cool too. That's a pretty nice G41 you've got-hopefully you took care of it. Those things don't like dust very much.

Also-ac12, I forgot to mention you do have the option of a CPU upgrade, if you had the extra buck and ever felt like squeezing some extra go-go out of your G40. Be VERY careful about the processors you put in, you can easily brick a motherboard by putting in the wrong processor. I'd just stick with the processors they put in the G40-*maybe* the G41, although I'm not sure the motherboard/BIOS in a G40 will agree with a G41 processor.

The very best processor they put in a G40 standard was the Northwood 3GHz Pentium 4 processor. This isn't an HT model, which means you still only get one logical processor. The specific model you're looking for is this: SL74Q, 478 socket. Seek out this model specifically, I would HIGHLY recommend ONLY seeking this processor out if you want to CPU upgrade your G40, it will be vastly better than any Celeron and pretty much the most you'll ever get out of a G40.

I wouldn't recommend G41 processors in a G40... although they do have HT, I haven't tried it, and they run that much hotter. Unless someone else has tried it and would be willing to advise.

[ac12]

Thanks Medessec
I see those CPUs run from about $45 to $110.
I'll keep an eye out for one.
Seeing as how I already maxed the RAM to 2GB and upgraded the HD, a little more would be OK. Although, as you said, it would be nice to get CPU with HT.

I was thinking about getting a G41, but thought better of that, once I found out about the lack of graphics drivers for Win7, and how web sites now require more graphics power in the computer.

Almost time to retire the G40.

[ajkula66]

. It has 256 dedicated NVIDEA graphics..

It's actually 128MB, but quite powerful for its day and age...

ThinkPad G41 (2886-79U)

P4-M 548, 512MB RAM, 80GB 5400rpm HDD, 15 SXGA+(1400x1050) TFT LCD, 128MB nVIDIA GeForce FX Go5200, CD-RW/DVD-R Multi-Burner, IBM 802.11b/g wireless(MPCI), Modem(CDC), 1Gb Ethernet(LOM), 12 cell Li-Ion battery, WinXP Pro

[winslow]

[ It's actually 128MB, but quite powerful for its day and age...

ThinkPad G41 (2886-79U)

P4-M 548, 512MB RAM, 80GB 5400rpm HDD, 15 SXGA+(1400x1050) TFT LCD, 128MB nVIDIA GeForce FX Go5200, CD-RW/DVD-R Multi-Burner, IBM 802.11b/g wireless(MPCI), Modem(CDC), 1Gb Ethernet(LOM), 12 cell Li-Ion battery, WinXP Pro

thats correct, funny how our memory can play tricks like that. Guess I gotta eat more fish.

[Medessec]

@ac12, no problem. Indeed-G40s and even the G41 are really, again, merely novelty to have. I don't see them as daily drivers at all, they're just too big and absurd, and indeed, the insufficient graphics for Windows 7 is a huge hit to the G40/41's usability in the now.

Yeah-I wouldn't pick up a SL74Q processor until you see a good deal... sellers get away with selling them at that sort of money. But if it's at all possible, I'd see about getting a G41 processor in a G40, the thing is I've never done it... so I'd ask someone else who's played with G4x Thinkpads before, or knows if it'll work. I've also seen the SL7NC(the 3.46GHz Pentium 4, the fastest in the G41), the processor I picked up for my G41 project, for $38. Both the SL74Q(best G40 processor) and the SL7NC(best G41 processor) are 478 socket, and therefore, the SL7NC WILL fit in the G40's socket, but I'm not sure it will work, and I would not advise trying it unless someone else can confirm it does work. If it CAN work though-I'd really look into it.

[ac12]

Thanks Medessec,
I might ping Intel to see if I can use the G41s CPU in the G40.

[Medessec]

For anyone interested in getting a G-series machine, I happen to have a few on right now...

http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=107284

I'll have them up for awhile to see if they gather any interest.

And ac12-I think I might actually look into trying the G41 processor in a G40 thing myself, I have a couple of G40 motherboard/chassis handy, and I don't have a shortage of G41 processors. But I'm going to do some research to double-check and see if it is possible, and safe. I don't want to lose a perfectly good G40 motherboard... and especially not a good G41 processor.

[ac12]

MEDESSEC

I check the specs of the 2 P4s that you referenced.

The SL74Q is speced for a 400MHz FSB, which matches the FSB of the G40.
The clock multiplier is 30x
voltage is 1.55v

The SL7NC is speced for a faster 533MHz FSB, which matches the FSB of the G41.
The clock multiplier is 26x
voltage is 1.25-1.4v

So it would appear that the SL7NC will not work on the G40.

The SL74Q would give me a 50% increase in CPU speed over the 2GHz Celeron, so even w/o HyperThreading I get a decent performance increase.

Best price I could find for the SL74Q is about $43.

[Medessec]

Ah ok. I wasn't completely sure they had different FSB speeds... ah well. I didn't get around to the research yet-but thanks for letting me know.

[ac12]

According to the HMM, it appears that there is a different fan/heatsink assembly for the 3GHz Pentium in the G40. That's a bummer, as that could be difficult to find.

[Medessec]

I've seen two different heatsink designs out of all the G40/41s I've owned... There's the one that looks mostly gray/silver, with the one copper strip. I've found it in all the Celeron-based G40s, and all G41s. The other one is a beefier, copper-plated one, I've only found it in the higher-end G40s, and I haven't found it in any G41s. I don't know which one transfers more heat, but the copper-plated one has a bigger main fan and is a bit heavier, so I imagine that does. And my 2.8GHz G40s that have this heatsink run perfectly fine, so I'd imagine if you want to run a 3GHz, that heatsink is the one you want. I've found them on ebay too.

The silvery one:
http://i.ebayimg.com/t/IBM-Thinkpad-G40 ... ~60_35.JPG

The copper one:
http://www.lotbattery.com/images/g40-fan.jpg

[ac12]

geeez crimany
I found someone selling the G40 fan for the 3GHz P4 for $194, and the other for $159. Are they out of their minds???

However I did find some on eBay at a reasonable price, but I can't find the IBM part number for the fan for the 3GHz G40.

I think I may settle for the slightly slower 2.8GHz P4, so I do not have to replace the fan assembly. That will increase CPU speed by 40% and give me the larger cache of the P4 w/o spending $$$.

But if I can find the correct fan and the 3.0GHz P4, I might max out the G40.

[Medessec]

erm... wat. You can find 3GHz P4 G40s on ebay parting out from time to time for like... $40 or even less.

Yeah-I think playing it safe would be a good idea, and the P4s beat the Celerons anyday... it'll be a worthwhile upgrade regardless.

It would be nice to get a 3GHz-so it'd be a good idea to get a bit more research in before deciding on a 2.8 GHz.

[ac12]

Thanks Medessec,
I think I will sit on it for a bit and wait and watch.
As you mentioned, I think the COPPER heatsink/fan assembly would be the one for the 3GHz P4, as the copper would conduct heat away faster than aluminum which I think is what the silvery one is made of.
Then it is just waiting to find a 3GHz P4 at a decent price.

But is there enough real difference between 2.8GHz and 3GHz?
I guess since it is a single core, and I seem to be CPU limited, I probably would want all the horsepower I can get.

Or maybe I should just get a G41 to play with, since it has a faster FSB.

oh decisions decisons


I just found a 2.8GHz P4 for $12 shipped.
I figured for that price I would just get the 2.8GHz P4 and be done with it.

Who knows, I may want one of your G41s to tinker with.

[Medessec]

Aye-the 3GHz is only marginally better, but for those who like G40/41, it makes your G40 a bit more desired, due to being the best you can get. If you're actually using the thing though-and just wanting a bit more go-go, a 2.8 GHz is a nice compromise.
.
If you do want tons of raw power to slap around, it is a generally better idea to get a G41. A lot of G41s I get in have bad fans or are just really dusty... suffering from overheating, which kinda figures. If you do have the tech know-how, it'd be neat to pick up a nice barebones G41 for you to play around with.

As for mine-I just sold my 14" G41, but I still have another G41 with a 15" screen, which is in my opinion, nicer. Even if I sell that one though, I might end up getting more. I do plan on keeping my epic G41(the 3.46GHz with NVIDIA) for a long time though.

[ac12]

Medessec
I just found some notes.
Says the G41 had a max 3.73GHz CPU.
But I can't find a P4 listing for anything above 3.067GHz
I found P4 Mobile going up to 3.46GHz, but nothing higher.
It appears that maybe the 3.6 and 3.73GHz models were listed but not produced.

The 2.8GHz CPU should arrive on Tues
Trip to the computer shop to pick up some Arctic Silver
Then I should be able to do the CPU upgrade this week
I'm looking forward to seeing what this old gal can do with the new CPU.