How secure is a thinkpad?

[QWERTY Andreas]

Hi
I just bought a couple of used old thinkpad, and along those there where a used T60p. A quite nice machine.. However it was locked with power on password.
I tried a couple of passwords but none of them was right, and i thought i had ended up with a, very nice, bricked thinkpad.

However there was a quite simple method to bypass the password, which leads me to this question: How secure is a thinkpad? Really?

Because it just seems too strange that the power on password can be bypassed easily

[twistero]

A user password can be bypassed easily, yes. But a supervisor password is very difficult to get rid of.

[RealBlackStuff]

The Power-On-Password (POP) can be removed by just taking out the CMOS battery for a few minutes.
BUT, if there is also a Supervisor password (SVP) on it, then the POP will turn into an SVP if you remove that battery.
The only way to remove the SVP then (according to official IBM/Lenovo) is to replace the motherboard.
Any further discussion of passwords is not allowed on this forum.

If you put a password on a hard disk, and it is an IBM or Hitachi drive (Hitachi has recently been bought by Western Digital), there's no way to remove that HD password, other than in a forensic laboratory.
Other brands have other solutions, that are not as secure as IBM/Hitachi.
Here again, no further discussion allowed.

Best thing is: if you have any critical data, do NOT leave them on the HD, but move them onto a USB-stick when you are finished 'computing' and carry that stick with you.

[Neil]

An encrypted USB stick, at that. Otherwise, if you loose the flash drive, all your data is available to whom ever finds it.

And just as others have written above, ThinkPads can be made to be very secure.

[Cigarguy]

Password security, in general, is all due to implementation. Any of my machine is defenseless as I've got NO password activated. A risk I'm willing to take for the convenience and the fact that there's nothing of real value on my machine that anybody would want. Having said that, IMO, Thinkpads can be extremely secure if one choose to make it secure.

[ajkula66]

My ThinkPads are secured by my Second Amendment rights...

[QWERTY Andreas]

Thanks for the replies, and somehow good to hear

So the passwords will have to be used in a combination to make the laptop secure?

[Cigarguy]

Thanks for the replies, and somehow good to hear

So the passwords will have to be used in a combination to make the laptop secure?

Yes. As with any security, think of it in layers.

At the machine level, supervisor password is the main one as it protects against changes to power on password and any changes to BIOS. With any machine, the HDD/SSD can be easily removed so that too should be encrypted. Within the password protected machine, which is also protected by HDD/SSD encryption, you can use various layers of software encryption from the OS down to individual files. How much is really need is entirely dependent on user requirements. As I said, none of my data is useful to anyone but myself so I don't even turn on OS password never mind machine level password.

Of course the best security have to take into account environment security. User stupidity is the biggest security hole. I don't leave/use my laptops in an environment where it can easily be stolen. In a bank vault, guarded by many armed, trained personnel with ajkula66's Second Amendment security is generally sufficient deterrent to keep the bad guys from looking at my cigar pics.

[ajkula66]

User stupidity is the biggest security hole.

Amen to that one.

In a bank vault, guarded by many armed, trained personnel with ajkula66's Second Amendment security is generally sufficient deterrent to keep the bad guys from looking at my cigar pics.

While you are entitled to make fun of my Second Amendment rights, they came in *very* handy when I had to deal with intruders in the middle of the night several years ago...hope you'll never have to go through anything similar.

[TuuS]

I'll second ajkula66's opinion that the 2nd amendment rights are what keep us free and safe. States that have violated this right have suffered from high crime. When Washington DC outlawed guns, about 50% of the guns were in the hands of people who have never committed a crime, the other 50% were in the hands of criminals who for the most part were afraid to use them. After the law the first group was disarmed and helpless, the latter group remained armed, and no longer had fear to use them and crime skyrocketed making DC the murder capital of the usa. The ironic part is it was already against the law for the criminals to own guns so the law was ONLY focused on good law abiding people, most of whom quickly moved out of the city. Other states also have tried to reduce gun crime by taking guns away from the people who should have them, always with the same result. Countries like the UK and Australia have tried to outlaw guns, always with a sharp increase in violent crime. We cannot un-invent guns, and the key to reducing crime lies in enforcing laws to get them out of the hands of criminals, and to assure that any potential victim who chooses to arm himself has access to proper training.

Also, throughout history our second amendment has protected us. It keeps government in line. The first step a tyranical government does is take away the guns... be it stalins russia, hitlers germany, or many others, it always starts with gun registration followed by gun collection. Many jews in nazi germany were told the government needs their guns and the patriotic gun owners gave them up, then the soilders showed up and escorted them into railway cattle cars to be relocated... and the rest is history. We all know the country was controlled by a minority and the soldiers either forced or brainwashed, but the fact remains is these things wouldn't happen if the population is armed. Japan also dismissed the thought of invading north america because of the belief that every american had a gun, where in Japan the civilians were resorting to using bamboo spears to fight the invasion that never came.

I know there are a lot of ugly memories and I hate to bring them up, or even discuss something so hotly debated, but the fact remains that people like George and myself have never used a gun to hurt someone or commit a crime, and I'm thankful for the right to own one. I sleep better at night knowing I can protect myself and my family if need be.

Just remember, freedom is seldom "free", it costs the blood of the brave, and the willingness of the people to demand it, and be willing to fight, and if needs be, to die for it.

[RealBlackStuff]

The best example of a country with a low crime-rate is Switzerland.
Every able-bodied male, from ca. 18 onwards, gets a government-issued gun (be it a rifle or a pistol) together with a box of (sealed) life ammunition. They also have their full army-kit at home. At least once a year they go to the shooting range to keep in practice, at which time their weapons and all other gear gets inspected. Also every year they go into active army duty for several weeks.
It is nothing unusual to see someone riding a bicycle there, with a rifle slung over his shoulder, or even see them in the tram with their rifle.
Admitted, that country is a bit of a police state (nearly everybody 'spies' on their neighbor), but it's quite safe to be there.
I know first hand, since I lived there for almost 25 years.
You could sit outside on a terrace, browsing the web with your Thinkpad, then go to the loo, while leaving your TP on the table.
When you come back, it will still be there!

[Limey Rich]

Very! If i can transfer all my IBM software, especially the fingerprint stuff when I install my new HDD. Wondering if Acronis will copy the IBM "partition"?

On the examples of why the second amendment must survive:
I. The obvious, Japanese generals nixed the idea of a mainland US invasion because they knew they would be fighting millions of good civilian riflemen, as well as the regular army. As Tuus pointed out earlier.
2. The not so obvious. GB after the retreat from France and Belgium circa May 1940, found itself with an army that could not be armed, there were just not enough even remotely military grade weapons available anywhere! To wit, my fathers regiment were ordered to destroy and abandon all heavy equipment before waiting for evacuation from the beaches of Dunkirk. Upon boarding the ships and vessels, ALL unnecessary weight was to be thrown overboard. There went all the remaining .303 Enfields, light machine guns, etc to the bottom of the North sea. Upon reaching England, dad went to hospital for treatment of his wounds, while his "platoon", and all others were put to work. Doing what you ask? Making cardboard and broomstick imitations of rifles and pistols, and building plywood and cardboard mockups of what used to be their tanks, artillery, and lorries (trucks). So that from the air or a distance the British troops would appear to be able to defend the country!
Of course now that Britain is again disarmed for the safety of the general public, it turns out that the gangs and thugs are well armed with automatic weapons.

[DaKKS]

Britain is the perfect example of f*cked up gun control. I mean, I'd rather do it the US way with everyone owning a gun, and most of them knowing how to use it. Than no one aside from the criminals having them, who still think the spray and pray manoeuvre is "da sh!t". Just remember that gang member who got a hold an assault rifle, shot a drug dealer, but accidentally shot through the wall and killed a family in the flat next door.

As I've mentioned before, the town I grew up in is the hub of the arms trafficking in Sweden. I don't think I can count how many times I've been offered guns, rifles, hell, I was once offered an bloody MP5. This is a perfect example of why our and the British system doesn't work. Those who really want one can get guns easily, but then law abiding citizen is not even permitted to carry one of those swiss pocket knives, not to mention guns.

I'd rather not state weather not I own guns on a public forum, but for the record I'm not completely unfamiliar with the use and construction of different firearms.

[QWERTY Andreas]

Here in Denmark its illegal to have a gun without special permission (ie. hobby like hunting, or shooting practice - or whatever its called), but theres no problem with it. Everybody is safe, and feel safe.

A society can work without everyone having guns

[rkawakami]

[goofyGAguy]

A society can work without everyone having guns

It certainly made life easier for Hitler's SS.

[killer]

Both subtle and apposite, Ray. Thank you for drawing this to a halt.

If anyone wishes to discuss the issues surrounding gun control then it is probably a good idea to open a new thread devoted to that very emotionally charged subject ... or just forget it because everyone speaks and nobody listens.