14" VS. 15" TP's (LONG! print&read on toilet)

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Inky
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14" VS. 15" TP's (LONG! print&read on toilet)

#1 Post by Inky » Fri Apr 29, 2005 9:19 pm

Hi y'all,
For me deciding whether to get a 14.10" screen or a 15" screen has been the toughest part of deciding which Thinkpad to get.

In my opinion, what makes it especially tough is that two of the most critical aspects of laptop design are the quality of the keyboard and the DISPLAY. That’s because laptops are inherently less ergonomic than full sized systems, so if you’re going to be working on a laptop it’s a good idea to get one with the best keyboard & screen you can find. IBM devotes more attention to ergonomics than other laptop manufacturers do, and that’s why my favorite laptops are ThinkPads.

Okay, so choosing the right screen is an important decision that significantly affects your experience of using the laptop every minute you spend working on it. However, when it comes to choosing between the 14.10" and the 15" T-series laptops what makes the decision even tougher is the fact that both screen sizes have unique advantages and in choosing one you have to sacrifice the advantages of the other.

I recently had a chance to compare a 15” T42 with a 14.10” version, and after many, many hours of using them side by side, here’s what I found.

14.10” screen advantages:
The smaller screen makes the whole laptop smaller, sleeker, and lighter, making it easier to pick up, easier to maneuver and reposition, and easier to pack away and carry. Due to its reduced power consumption the 14.1" screen also allows you run the machine longer on a battery charge.

15” screen advantages:
Only the 15” screen incorporates IBM’s “FlexView” technology, a marketing term for IPS (“in plane switching”) which is an LCD technology that makes it possible to see a clear, vivid image on the screen regardless of the viewing angle, whereas by comparison the non-flexview screens will look less clear and slightly washed out from any angle other than the optimum viewing position.

Also, the backlighting used on the 15” screen makes the colors appear more intense and vibrant. If you’re watching a DVD movie the skin tones look more lifelike, whereas on the 14.10” they looked washed out making everyone look as though they were standing under bright fluorescent lights.

When doing text work, the black letters look blacker on the flexview, blue highlighting of selected text looks darker, and looks like a washed out pastel hue on the 14.10” screens.

Obviously, the 15” screen also gives you more space to work with, which is great if you like juggling a couple of open windows at once.

In theory, the number of windows you can have open at once is determined only by the resolution, not the screen size because SXGA+ resolution (1400x1050) lets you juggle the same amount of data on a 14.10” screen and a 15” screen (or on a ONE inch screen) but the smaller the screen the tinier each window has to be to fit on it. On the 14.10” screen I find myself wanting to ZOOM text size upwards to make it more readable and that fills up the available screen space in a hurry.

Speaking of resolutions I favor 1400x1050 because I use 1600x1200 on a beautiful 22” Samsung SyncMaster 213T LCD monitor which is a joy to work on, juggling open windows galore, but while 1600x1200 pixels worth of information is perfectly comfortable for me to view when it's spread over a giant 22” monitor, it feels like a strain for me to view the same amount of detail shrunk down onto a 15” screen. It doesn’t actually HURT my eyes, by “strain” I mean that somehow the act of making out all the fine details on the screen is something I can do with ease, but when doing so I notice that I start getting into a rigid posture that forms a solid "base" for making ultra precise head & eye movements (so I can stay tightly focused on the fine details). This wouldn't matter if I were performing engineering work that emphasizes precision more than creativity, but I need to maintain a looser creative state when I'm working on creating novels and screenplays.

If, for me, 1600x1200 is just too much squeezed onto a 15” screen, then I feel like 1024 x 768 is too much of a step down compared to the 1600x1200 worth information I’m used to working with on my 22" monitor. I think 1400x1050 is the perfect compromise. It’s still a heck of a lot of information, and while it IS readable on a 14.10” screen, it is even MORE readable on a 15” screen, so I consider that combination perfect for me.

But back to comparing the advantages of each size:

When I was working on the 15” and 14.10” machines side-by-side my testing always seemed to favor the 15” flexView, but why? Eventually the reason became obvious. The moment you are actually working on the machine, at THAT moment you will tend to favor the 15” screen, because when you are actually working on it, at that moment what you FEEL most is the quality of the screen and keyboard. The big advantages of the 14.10” screen (lightweight, compact, sleek) are not that noticeable once you are busy working on the machine.

The advantages of having a sleek, compact, lightweight 14.10” model is fully appreciated only at those times when you are picking up the machine, repositioning it, or packing it away and carrying it somewhere.

So to properly decide between the 14.10” screen and the 15” you absolutely have to get a clear sense of how much of your time with the laptop is going to consist of you sitting and using it (which favors the 15”) Versus how much of that time is going to consist of you picking up the machine, repositioning it or packing or unpacking it, and carrying it.

Here are a few scenarios:
People who travel a lot and take a laptop along for use on a plane or train. People like that can easily recall the last time they were lugging heavy laptops and for them the advantages of a sleek, compact, lightweight machine can be so significant that for them those benefits greatly outweigh the benefits of a 15” flexview screen.

Ditto for someone who doesn’t travel but uses the laptop very sporadically for brief moments at a time to check emails, to dash off memos, to look something up on the internet, etc. Out of the total time they spend on the laptop, so much is spent on lifting it, maneuvering it, re-positioning it and packing or unpacking it that they will get more joy than other users do from having a machine that is lightweight and compact.

Another scenario is someone who rarely moves the machine and tends to use it for a long stretch once they get on it. Maybe they use it mostly at home, or mostly at work, maybe getting the machine to work each day is an easy drive in their car that doesn’t involve much lugging the machine around. For these people what’s most important is having a machine that is a joy to work on once they sit down to work on it. For them having a really nice screen gains added importance--after all, what do they care how light or compact the machine is while it sits on their desk or lap for hours and hours when they work on it?

To sum up, no one should claim to know which screen size is “better”. Each has advantages and the one that is best for you depends on how you will be using your laptop. I hope my thoughts on this subject will help some people to get a clearer picture of the advantages that matter most to THEM, be it the joy of a sleek, compact, lightweight notebook or the joy of working on a larger more readable screen with flexView technology.

Lastly, I just want to share one personal dillemma that complicates the 15” Vs. 14.10” debate for me. I will be using it mostly at home, and once in a blue moon at a cafe, and usually for many hours at a time until I get a novel written, so you’d think I care more about the laptop being a joy to work on than I do about it being a joy to lift, pack, and carry.

But...because the work I’m doing on it is entirely optional and lends itself to procrastination (working on a novel) I can’t help wondering if it’s possible that I might get the urge to reach for the laptop--to grab it and get some novel writing done more OFTEN if I’m always picking up a wonderfully sleek, lightweight 14” model than I will if reaching for the laptop always means maneuvering a bulky 15” model. Since I don’t have both models at home, I can’t answer this for sure, but something tells me that if getting my novel written depends on having a laptop that is easier to pick up and reposition when I'm using it mostly at home, then my dreams of making it as a novelist are seriously in question.
:-)

All the best,
-Inky
Last edited by Inky on Sat Apr 30, 2005 12:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: 14" VS. 15" TP's (LONG! print&read on toi

#2 Post by stgreek » Fri Apr 29, 2005 9:46 pm

Inky wrote: But...because the work I’m doing on it is entirely optional and lends itself to procrastination (working on a novel) I can’t help wondering if it’s possible that I might get the urge to reach for the laptop--to grab it and get some novel writing done more OFTEN if I’m always picking up a wonderfully sleek, lightweight 14” model than I will if reaching for the laptop always means maneuvering a bulky 15” model. Since I don’t have both models at home, I can’t answer this for sure, but something tells me that if getting my novel written depends on having a laptop that is easier to pick up and reposition when I'm using it mostly at home, then my dreams of making it as a novelist are seriously in question.
:-)

-Inky
That is why you get one of these for home, and an X31 to type anywhere ;)

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Re: 14" VS. 15" TP's (LONG! print&read on toi

#3 Post by Inky » Fri Apr 29, 2005 10:13 pm

stgreek wrote: That is why you get one of these for home, and an X31 to type anywhere ;)
Unfortunately, for my fingers the X series with it's 90% scaled down keyboard feels cramped to type on and that might act as more of a work disincentive than the momentary trauma of having to maneuver a bulky laptop. But in principle I agree. The ideal scenario for me would be to have both a 15" desktop replacement AND a sleek 14.1" model.
The thing is...I know where to get a second laptop, but where to get the budget for it? Getting just ONE ThinkPad (the 15" I'm dreaming about) is proving challenge enough. Sigh...if only I knew an IBM employee so I could get one through EPP. :wink:

-Inky

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#4 Post by SKYravefever » Fri Apr 29, 2005 10:22 pm

Having had two laptops was a PITA. (One was a Dell Inspiron 8200 15" UXGA, the other, the 14" T42 that I'm typing on right now). It was a royal pain synching my documents and email between the machines, so I finally gave up and sold the Dell.

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#5 Post by asiafish » Fri Apr 29, 2005 10:28 pm

Funny, I seem to be bass ackwards on this. I own both a 14" laptop (T42p) and a 12" laptop (Apple PowerBook), and I too am writing a novel. Strangely, most of my writing takes place on the PowerBook, as I really do like writing away from the distractions of home (coffee shops are my favorite).

The screen matters very little for writing, and I happily give up the 1400X1050 14" panel in favor of a 12" 1024X768. Its not the software either, as I have essentially the same tools for both. MS Word is basically the same, and for Dramatica Pro Write Brothers actually gives you a hybrid Mac/PC disc, separate Mac and PC serial numbers and permission to install on three computers of either platform.

I never really cared whether I was writing in Word for Windows or Word for Mac, just how convenient and handy my laptop is. Four-years-ago, when my Mac was huge (Pismo G3 14") and my PC was tiny (X21), I was exactly the opposite, writing on the little ThinkPad and using the big Mac for home and longer trips.

I really agree with the two computer concept. For writing, you don't even need a modern comptuer. Why not get your 15" ThinkPad and then find yourself a nice used X20 or if you want a larger keyboard a 570. All you really need for writing is something that will run NT, Linux or any other non Win9x OS, a basic word processor and a little creativity.

Andrew
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#6 Post by asiafish » Fri Apr 29, 2005 10:29 pm

SKYravefever wrote:Having had two laptops was a PITA. (One was a Dell Inspiron 8200 15" UXGA, the other, the 14" T42 that I'm typing on right now). It was a royal pain synching my documents and email between the machines, so I finally gave up and sold the Dell.
All depends on how you go about it.
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#7 Post by RonS » Fri Apr 29, 2005 10:36 pm

I just checked tabook to verify this...

The 15" display is available in three different resolutions: XGA (1024x768), SXGA+ (1400x1050), UXGA (1600x1200). The SXGA+ and UXGA are both Flexview. If UXGA resolution is too small, it's easy to order the 15" SXGA+ and still get great screen quality.
Apathy is on the rise, but nobody seems to care.

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#8 Post by asiafish » Fri Apr 29, 2005 10:41 pm

The flexview has downsides too though. It uses more battery power and ghosts more, which may or may not botehr you.

I value extreme battery life on mine, which is why I often set up my T42p with the 9 cell battery and the ultrabay battery, which with the screen dimmed gives me over 9 hours unplugged.
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#9 Post by JHEM » Fri Apr 29, 2005 10:58 pm

Inky,

You're buying a racehorse to plow the fields!

More ink has been used to transcribe the scrivenings of wordsmiths on Thinkpad 600s to the printed word than possibly all other laptops combined! That's not hyperbole.

The 600X, arguably the ne' plus ultra of the series, has what is widely considered to be the best keyboard ever on a laptop. The form, fit and finish of the 600X are the yardstick against which all other laptops are measured, even our beloved T4X and X3/4X machines.

Get the desktop replacement 15" display T4X you desire, then search eBay for a lightly used 600X to take with you around the house or around the world to scratch your writing itch.

Or, contact me for a refurbished and upgraded one with a PIII 800MHz or 850MHz processor, a 7K60 HD and 576MB RAM.

Regards,

James
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#10 Post by rickslate » Sat Apr 30, 2005 1:05 am

GREAT THREAD!!! Really well said. I wish I could have read your thread months ago while I was pondering the 14" vs. 15" question because it would have saved me a lot of time. I made my decision last week and ordered my 15" SXGA+ screen this afternoon.

I do a ton of web design work on my current 14" 1024x768 Thinkpad A31. I needed a higher resolution but couldn't commit to a 15". I finally got a friend to loan me his 14" SXGA laptop for a day. I realized there was no way in hell that I would be able to stare at that for hours at a time.
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#11 Post by mattfromomaha » Sat Apr 30, 2005 8:29 am

SKYravefever wrote: so I finally gave up and sold the Dell.
Always like to hear those words.... :D :D

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#12 Post by dc_slim » Sat Apr 30, 2005 9:30 am

Inky,

As a freelance writer, part-time enviornmental consultant, and doctoral student in history, I'd strongly second James's comments. I've always felt that keyboard feel and LCD quality and resolution were the two most important factors in a laptop, at least for my needs. Lots of memory, fast HDs, processing power . . . none of that matters when you're working in Word for hours on end, trying to craft coherent prose.

For my two cents, I don't see how you could go wrong with a used 600x. You can find good deals on Ebay for $250-300. The keyboard is a joy to work with, and I think you'd find the size of the machine quite portable and the display perfectly adequate.

If you really want something current, a T-series with the SXGA display would be fine too. I used a T40 for a while that I really liked -- the keyboard was great, and the SXGA screen was a dream to work with.

My current machine is an X30. For me, the smaller keyboard is fine -- slightly more cramped than the T-series, but not enough to make a difference. When taking notes for 4+ hours, I do find it a little tiresome, but then fatiuge is a problem when you're doing that sort of work no matter what keyboard you're typing on. I'm always on the go, running from my home to my office to the Library of Congress and up to Baltimore . . . portability is a major concern. The small size and light weight of the X-series makes a big difference, even in comparision to a 14" T-series.

My fiancee has an A31 with the 15" SXGA and likes it a lot. The size and weight of the machine, however, make it pretty much non-portable. It's essentially a desktop.

Hope this helps . . . good luck in reaching a decision and getting your novel written!

Dan
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#13 Post by Kenn » Sat Apr 30, 2005 10:38 am

RonS wrote:I just checked tabook to verify this...

The 15" display is available in three different resolutions: XGA (1024x768), SXGA+ (1400x1050), UXGA (1600x1200). The SXGA+ and UXGA are both Flexview. If UXGA resolution is too small, it's easy to order the 15" SXGA+ and still get great screen quality.
Little-known-fact: IBM sells a QXGA (2048x1536) screen kit for the 15" T42 CTO, for those times when you REALLY need your resolution to outstrip your vision (and the capabilities of the video chipset)!
IBM ThinkPad T42p (2373-7XU): 1.8GHz/1024MB, 15" UXGA, DVD-RW, 80GB, 2200b/g.
T42 (2374-3VU): 1.7GHz/512MB, 14.1"SXGA+, DVD-RW, 80GB, 2200b/g.

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#14 Post by AlphaKilo470 » Sat Apr 30, 2005 11:38 am

Wow. I have a hard time reading anything above 1600x1200 on my 19" Samsung CRT. I can only imagine what 2048x1526 would be like on a 15" LCD. It might be one of those things where you have to use it first before giving a review to, but that just sounds like overkill.
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#15 Post by Inky » Sat Apr 30, 2005 12:52 pm

asiafish wrote:Funny, I seem to be bass ackwards on this. I own both a 14" laptop (T42p) and a 12" laptop (Apple PowerBook), and I too am writing a novel. Strangely, most of my writing takes place on the PowerBook, as I really do like writing away from the distractions of home (coffee shops are my favorite).
The funny thing is, when using the laptop in public it can be a benefit to NOT have a flexview screen if giving everyone around you a clear view of your writing might make you self conscious. The narrower viewing angle of the 14.1" screen will give you a little added privacy. Of course you can always get one of those detachable polarized laptop screen hoods (they might be called a privacy filters) that make the screen readable only when you view it straight on.

asiafish wrote: The screen matters very little for writing, and I happily give up the 1400X1050 14" panel in favor of a 12" 1024X768.
The thing is, when I'm writing I find it helpful to be viewing a fairly good portion of what I've written so far, because that actually helps me to think of words that "flow" well with what I wrote before. If I'm working in a small window where I can only see the paragraphs I happen to be working on, that makes it harder for me to write effectively.
asiafish wrote: I never really cared whether I was writing in Word for Windows or Word for Mac, just how convenient and handy my laptop is.
Gosh darn it, it's hearing things like that which really complicate my decision.
;-)

-Inky

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#16 Post by JHEM » Sat Apr 30, 2005 1:20 pm

rickslate wrote:I made my decision last week and ordered my 15" SXGA+ screen this afternoon.
I feel secure in saying you're going to love the 15" SXGA+ display for your web design work!

Regards,

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#17 Post by pae77 » Sat Apr 30, 2005 1:34 pm

Good thread. I've been (and still am) agonizing over this display decision for a couple of months now. I'm not really in that much of a hurry because I'm waiting for the warranty to expire on my current machine before I replace it, but that will occur in a couple of months. I just keep going back and forth on whether to get a 14 SXGA or 15 inch SXGA or UXGA. This thread has at least brought the pros and cons into clearer focus, but I'm still not sure which way I'll end up going.
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#18 Post by JHEM » Sat Apr 30, 2005 1:37 pm

dc_slim wrote:Lots of memory, fast HDs, processing power . . . none of that matters when you're working in Word for hours on end, trying to craft coherent prose.
Yep, it's all spinners on the wheels when it comes to wordsmithing.

First and foremost you need a usable keyboard, something that won't slow down your thought processes because you're hitting the wrong key or multiple keys, and will let you get your word rate up to where you can actually make some money, e.g. 40WPM or better.

Then, you need a display that can give you an approximation of WYSIWYG in a reasonable form factor, 13.3" XGA is almost perfect.

Next, you need a laptop you don't mind carrying around or reaching for on the spur of the moment. My A30p is a fantastic laptop with a magnificent UXGA-IPS display, but it's not exactly portable friendly. One of my T4X machines is the usual go-to for their light weight and pretty [censored] good keyboards, but I've still got my venerable 600X sitting around for the odd occasion when I yearn for that keyboard feel again.

Way, WAY down the list of needs for churning out words is HD and CPU speed, installed memory, etc., etc.

Regards,

James
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#19 Post by Kenn » Sat Apr 30, 2005 7:43 pm

I just wanted to point out that the 14.1" LCD and the Flexview actually have fairly equivalent horizontal view angles - the flexview does keep the colors a bit more solid, but the real benefit is the vertical viewing angle. Whereas you have to constantly swivel the LCD or move backwards on the 14" to keep an optimal perpendicular-to-display viewing angle, you can see the flexview from above or below without much washing-out of the display. Which, was pointed out before, is not great for keeping any work secret. But that's why you get UXGA, cause nobody will be able to read the text over your shoulders without binoculars anyways :twisted:
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I wish I'd read this thread earlier

#20 Post by hurog » Sat Apr 30, 2005 10:54 pm

My wife is an author (currently working on her tenth novel), and recently decided to grab a laptop. I'm a professional nerd, but I'm afriad my specialty is Unix Servers, so I'm a laptop neophyte. After looking at a number of other laptops, and reading numerous reviews, we decided to purchase a Thinkpad for exactly the reasons higlighted here: keyboard and usability.

Then came the nightmare of choosing WHICH thinkpad to buy - there are so many choices! Generally, when faced with a choice we opted to error on the side of buying too much rather than risk buying a machine that would somehow be deficient (after all, it's hard to upgrade a laptop, and the bloody things are expensive!) Finally we chose a 15" T42p with lots of whistles and bells, and we're eagerly waiting for it to arrive.

In retrospect, I think we could have saved some money, and still gotten her plenty of machine for pounding out text!!!

Also, as this is my first post on this board, thanks to one and all for the excellent information! I've already learned a great deal from your insightful posts and comments.

Mike :)
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Re: I wish I'd read this thread earlier

#21 Post by JHEM » Sun May 01, 2005 12:03 am

hurog wrote:In retrospect, I think we could have saved some money, and still gotten her plenty of machine for pounding out text!!!
First and foremost Mike, welcome to the Forums. Hope you and your (prolific) wife will stick around awhile.

Second, you needn't fear having bought too much Thinkpad for your needs. You have 30 days from purchase to return it with no penalty for any reason or, more importantly, no particular reason at all.

You can also cancel your purchase and reconsider your choice.

What size monitor does she normally work at and in what reolution? A 15" laptop LCD is equivalent in actual viewable image to almost a 17" CRT. A 14.1" laptop LCD is equivalent to a 15" CRT. But even if she normally used a larger CRT, the native clarity and crispness of an LCD frequently trumps even a larger CRT.

Hopefully you've had a chance to see a 15" UXGA display before purchasing this one. I fear your wife might find it a bit difficult to see for wordsmithing, along with having to womanhandle its larger size.

The "p" in T42p stands for Performance and these units are normally used by engineers, software developers, etc. This performance ability for a great deal of additional money is of absolutely no benefit in the uses you anticipate for it.

Might I suggest cancelling your order and getting two replacement machines, a 2378FVU (or similar) with a 14.1" SXGA+ display and a 2378DXU with a 15" SXGA+ display. Test drive each of them for a few weeks, pick the one that fits her best and return the other for a full refund. I daresay you could purchase both of these units for very little more than the price of the T42p.

Just a few suggestions from one scribbler to another, please pass them on.

Regards,

James
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#22 Post by asiafish » Sun May 01, 2005 12:08 am

I second the idea of two machines, but would recommend a T42 14" and an X41 12" instead. For writing, she may prefer the smaller X-series, somehow small machines just beg to be used.
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#23 Post by hurog » Sun May 01, 2005 1:58 am

Thanks to James and AsiaFish (odd name, makes me think of Arrowana for some reason). I'll relay your suggestions to my wife - saving a bit of money wouldn't hurt my feelings! On the other hand, her laptop will be tax-deductable . . .

For the record, her normal machine runs a 17" LCD at 1280x1024. I can't remember off-hand what the native resolution of that monitor is, but she's running below native, and is apparently not particularly bothered by the blurriness of an interpolated resolution. I agree that 1600 x 1200 on a 15" would tend to turn most text into microprint. Maybe she'll take up cad in her spare time?!

As far as viewing before we buy, no such luck. There are a few electronics stores around, most of which are selling decidely lower-end systems. Hmm, is the IBM screen more like the bottem-end Toshiba, or the mid-range HP? Frankly, we decided that as long as she could read black text on a white background, it would be good enough!

The 15" was her insistance, not mine! I find myself drawn to the 14", or even the X41 as Asia suggested. However, as the origninal poster pointed out, it depends on whether you plan to spend more time packing the system, or working on it. She plans to work mosty from home, but wants the freedom to work on the porch, or the coffe shop across the street etc. In short, she's not looking at much travel, just the ability to move her work space short distances, so the extra weight shouldn't be a major factor.

I like the analogy of using race horses to plow fields. It's obvious we over-shot the goal a bit! Oh well, maybe she'll figure out we bought too much machine and decide to scale back. Heck, maybe I can persuade her to give this machine to me, and I'll go buy her whatever's on sale at the Mall!

Thanks again for all the suggestions, I will pass them by her!
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asiafish
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#24 Post by asiafish » Sun May 01, 2005 8:12 am

On sale at the mall means crappy, non-IBM keyboard (unless you get her a PowerBook) and equally bad consumer-level build-quality. I'd avoid IBM R-series for the same reason (build onlly, keyboards are fine).
"An atheist is just somebody who feels about Yahweh the way any decent Christian feels about Thor or Baal or the golden calf. As has been said before, we are all atheists about most of the gods that humanity has ever believed in. Some of us just go one god further."

Richard Dawkins, 2002

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#25 Post by tehsoul » Mon Jul 25, 2005 3:48 pm

are you kidding? i worked on an r series for about a year and I have never uttered a bad word about its build quality (and it's been through A LOT :p)

Edited by Moderator: 3 month-old threads don't need to be re-opened just for an argument.

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#26 Post by Inky » Mon Jul 25, 2005 4:41 pm

tehsoul wrote:are you kidding? i worked on an r series for about a year and I have never uttered a bad word about its build quality (and it's been through A LOT :p)
This is the T forum. Home of the sleek & chic T-series. Here we laugh and throw barbs at the chubby R series.;-)

-Inky

Edited by Moderator: 3 month-old threads don't need to be re-opened just for an argument.

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