Win7 Backup&Recovery /vs/ Thinkvantage R&R ?

[hellosailor]

I'm trying to get more religious about backups and wondering if the Thinkvantage R&R, which requires me to use the blue button and make backups from the special boot (or do I have that wrong?) is better or worse than using the Win7 backup & restore software.

On the one hand, using the Win7 software is comvenient, just add a backup. On the other hand, a real recovery means first doing a Win7 recovery install...but Windows also has a habit of refusing to read backups if it thinks they belong ot another system. (Version change, etc.)

OTOH using the Thinkvantage R&R means rebooting into the special boot screens to make the backup, and having the computer unavailable while that's happening. Unless I've got that wrong (since there were no FMs to RTFM with) and can make the backups from Windows?

And then there's WD's Smartware on my external, which looks nice but isn't clear about whether it could restore a damaged Windows system itself.

Can someone enlighten me about some of these options?

[Bánh mì]

Having used R&R to do a save and then restoring from it...
I can say that it works.
But its slow slow slow slow slow. For a 160GB HDD, it took over 24 hours to do the "base" backup. Incrementals would probably be shorter. But still its slow.
And with a multipartition dual boot, it only copied the partition on which R&R resided on. That was not good.

With W7, you can back up an image.
I can say it works
Its MUCH faster in the saving of the image and the restoration
Sure you need a system repair disk or a W7 CD but its not such a hassle as you can put it on a USB pen drive and carry with you if need be just in your bag.

For technical purposes such as being able to access files in the event of some hardware issues, R&R offers the pre desktop environment. I checked it out. Nice but not earthshattering.

I think for practical purposes, W7 backup is best and from an efficiency standpoint far superior.

R&R is an antiquated concept. Sure it has some technical advantages but not much. R&R can allow you to access the Internet should your OS be corrupted. So what, people have smartphones that can do that. Its also slower than molasses and snails.

[hellosailor]

Thanks, Banh. I just imaged an 80GB hard drive and it took five days and nights. Mainly due to 3600 bad sectors, which is why I was trying to image off whatever I could before I tossed it. I suspect your 160GB taking 24 hours was because something was wrong, or you were on a slow USB1 connection, not because of the software.

But Win7's backup & restore suffers from the same issue that previous OSes have had: If you backup a drive, you cannot open the backup, cannot access any of the information, if you have upgraded the OS since the backup was made. To me, that's a real half-assed backup.

I seem to recall R&R having a similar problem if it had been upgraded as well...hazy memory. So I think for now, I'll keep using Win7's own backup and recovery (repair?) disc as a way to recover the OS, and a plain file cpy using brute force to REALLY make a backup of everything else, that can be restored without concern for the user account, OS revises, and all those other nice landmines.

It just feels like backup software has gone backwards in the last 15 years, getting less robust instead of more.

[Bánh mì]

Hi, can you clarify if you used R&R or W7 to accomplish your task? R&R really was slow for me. The backup might have taken exceedingly long because it was the "base" backup - and not an incremental. However, the restore process I can say for the same 2 partitions, W7's process blew it away in terms of speed. Anecdotally, I've read similar complaints while researching the practicality of using R&R.

[hellosailor]

Neither. I was not working on a Tpad I was trying to replace the primary drive in a tower before it failed. I used the free personal edition of EaseUs to clone the drive. I don't think the EaseUS product was slow, I know that computer had an old ATA/EIDE bus (maybe an ATA66) and the drive I was trying to clone was dead slow even when it was new.

I've used the Acronis products (TrueImage, and the OEM versions that are supplied to Acorn, Seagate, and WD) and at least one other vendor's "free home version" or trial version in the past and while they are all "drive image" products, the Acronis products all seem to suffer from performance problems, or an inability to write English instructions for a US-market product. For instance, sometimes when Acronis says it will CLONE a drive it doesn't just clone the drive, it also renders the old drive unbootable when it makes the new drive bootable. to me that is TRANSFERing the drive's OS, not CLONING it. So I'd rather try any of their competitors than waste more time with Acronis.

[cadillacmike68]

Neither. I was not working on a Tpad I was trying to replace the primary drive in a tower before it failed. I used the free personal edition of EaseUs to clone the drive. I don't think the EaseUS product was slow, I know that computer had an old ATA/EIDE bus (maybe an ATA66) and the drive I was trying to clone was dead slow even when it was new.

I've used the Acronis products (TrueImage, and the OEM versions that are supplied to Acorn, Seagate, and WD) and at least one other vendor's "free home version" or trial version in the past and while they are all "drive image" products, the Acronis products all seem to suffer from performance problems, or an inability to write English instructions for a US-market product. For instance, sometimes when Acronis says it will CLONE a drive it doesn't just clone the drive, it also renders the old drive unbootable when it makes the new drive bootable. to me that is TRANSFERing the drive's OS, not CLONING it. So I'd rather try any of their competitors than waste more time with Acronis.

Hellosailor, you have an error in your cloning procedures. I've cloned hundreds of windows drives and other than a few early issues i had, I have not had a failed clone in well over a year. Look up cloning under T4x or T6x and you can see the proper procedures. The biggest thing is to NOT re-start the machine with Both HDDs still attached. winbloze will "fix" one of them, and if you put your original HDD in a USB enclosure (which I DO NOT recommend) then THAT one will get "fixed". Goodbye bootable original HDD.

[hellosailor]

Mike, that is certainly possible. However, since I explicitly followed the instructions on 3 different Acronis versions, and did two of the operations under live telephone support with second level tech staff (in one case Seagate, another Acronis) I can only say that whatever errors I made were caused by lousy translations and lousy labels on the menus.

I don't doubt that the product works for some people, even for most people. But when I followed the instructions (measure twice, cut once) and read them back and verified them as I did them, the result was NOT what you and I would call a clone.

Now in theory, the bootable OS MUST be transferred in order to observe the license terms (one install for one license) but again, since there is no warning and no mention that the product will transfer the OS boot and render theold drive UNbootable...

I'm too old for that crap. Someone at Acronis is simply not doing their job.

If I had rushed through, without reading instructions, without looking at options, without calling support and second level support, and without proper caffienation, I would agree that I made a mistake. But three times? On three product versions? With the support guys holding my hand and checking the options?

Nah. that's "enemy action". Sorry, but like most Ugly Americans I expect a product sold on the US domestic market to come with instructions that work in American English. Acronis has been around long enough to get their act together, and they just don't.Repeatedly. Maybe the newest version has, but I wouldn't bother trying it.

Three strikes, they're out.

[Bánh mì]

Uninstallation of the HDD manufacturer Acronis "Home" versions is virtually impossible and short of a disaster. I would suggest anyone considering using it somehow get a CD bootable version. You should make it on another computer that you don't use for production.

[cadillacmike68]

Uninstallation of the HDD manufacturer Acronis "Home" versions is virtually impossible and short of a disaster. I would suggest anyone considering using it somehow get a CD bootable version. You should make it on another computer that you don't use for production.

Are you referring to the free versions tied to a specific HDD maker or the one that you buy on the stores (or online).

If i want to get something off my computer, and it does not want to uninstall i get it off and obliterate it. First I delete all the load, run, and runonce registry keys, so it is not active, then the program directories go, then any registry reference to the manufacturer's name, program name or directories go. Then a registry scan for unused drivers, shortcuts, etc.

When I'm done, its gone.

[Bánh mì]

I'm sure you are skilled at implementing the nuclear option when it comes to ridding software especially if its rouge or not to your liking. For the rest of us, we simply don't have the aptitude. Its not an embarrasment as we might place higher value on other skills. Simply, we need a layperson option or options.

[hellosailor]

Banh-
"Simply, we need a layperson option or options."

It is a disgrace that computers (hardware, software, progamming, the whole arena) is in the state that it still is in today. On my planet, sloppy programmers were taken out and stoned to death many years ago. As a result the remaining survivors became extremely careful about the quality of their work and have become an esteemed and respected caste.

Unlike here, where any irresponsible idiot can write and sell software and even the largest vendors often produce sloppy junk (like Apple Maps, or many Google products) and then just laugh and say "Oh yeah, we heard about that" instead of fixing the problems.

Your only layperson options are to learn how to do the dirty work, or, to hire someone who claims to know how to maintain it for you, or, to find out who wrote the software which gives you problems, and help throw stones at them. Literally and physically.