IBM vs HP

[Aramitz]

Hi all
Is anyone can tell me if the perceived quality between a T43 >< HP nw 8240 is the same ?
Is the HP trachpoint so sensitive ?
Thanks a lot

[K. Eng]

Hello This probably belongs in the General Hardware forum.

[craigg]

I own several HP laptops and the build quality of the IBM appears better to me. All things being equal, I would choose IBM; however if you're on a budget you may find a better deal on the HP.

[Aramitz]

Hello This probably belongs in the General Hardware forum.

Xcuse me

[Aramitz]

This nw8240 is new here (05 April)
It looks nice (all black), flat.
The price,in France,is the same as a T43 with the same features (3K€)
If the quality is the same I prefer a HP vs Lenovo

[Steve007]

Buy HP then!

[fefland]

Just checked out that HP. It's almost a T43p clone. I liked that it had the Fire GL 5000 instead of the Fire GL 3200 of the T43p. If I could get one for IBM EPP price of the T43p I probably would.

[Aramitz]

and a 1394 & One Integrated Smart Card Reader and One Integrated Secure Digital slot

[carbon_unit]

Just checked out that HP. It's almost a T43p clone. I liked that it had the Fire GL 5000 instead of the Fire GL 3200 of the T43p. If I could get one for IBM EPP price of the T43p I probably would.

Wait until you have to have it worked on. Then you will see it is not a T43p clone.
After having worked on Thinkpads and recently other laptops I know I will never own an HP, Dell or a Gateway laptop. The build quality is not even in the same planet as IBM.

[Orbitz]

In the interest of a well rounded dialogue on this subject..I have a comment which is really a question

I completely support and agree (as do many other non-IBM users) that IBM's build quality and service are tops in the industry. No one that I hae run across really argues this point. Of course, most of these same people also firmly believe that IBM machines are "much" higher priced and thus you are basically getting what you paid for.

BUT, assume you are comparing a Dell machine to an IBM machine...and both have a X year on-site / next day warranty. Using that basis, can't you assume that either the Dell or the IBM will be back up and running the next day? So from a service standpoint, is there really any material difference?

Build quality is another matter in that it directly affects how "solid" the unit feels etc. and also how often you may be needing to call the above mentioned service person Aside from "feel better in your hands" aspect, assuming both have next day service for repairs, aren't they somewhat more equal then what appears on the surface?

[friedrich-eugen]

Well,

I 'll not take part in any comments as far as feeling is concerned.
I happen to have lived up to the experience of deteriorating support of AST (which some may know as a "better-than-IBM"-producer of IBM-like PC and notebooks (end 80ties/start 90ties)). I still have two notebooks and a business-pc of their make: they were in front technologically!

Since then I have used IBM's Laptops. And I did have problems to fix and I did it (warranty over) myself, too.

I do judge IBM's support as first class/premium quality.

I just happened to have the display (going pink) exchanged again. It took just 4 days over all, house to house, to have it repaired. You can't have it better, if transport is involved.

I have done repairs, using their hardware maintenance-manuals, too. Those are clear, slim and reliable. And You get all the parts You need from IBM (and if older in the web).

The premium You have to pay, buying IBM, You'll find is refunded this way later.

[egibbs]

Aside from "feel better in your hands" aspect, assuming both have next day service for repairs, aren't they somewhat more equal then what appears on the surface?

If a Yugo came with the same warranty as a Mercedes SLK would they be "more equal than what appears on the surface?"

You can't ignore things like the feel in your hands, especially for those of us who are buying these machines for ourselves. Every time I use my TP it makes me happy.

In my garage I have a Porsche 944. I hardly ever drive it anymore, but I change the oil every so often. When you take the oil drain plug out and hold it in your hand you can't help but marvel at the engineering that went into such a humble component. It's machined from a block of billett aluminum, gold anodized, and has a recess machined into the center with a powerfuil rare earth magnet set into it to catch any stray metal particles floating in the oil. It would be more at home on an aircraft than a car, but it's mine, and that makes me feel good.

My TP gives me the same feeling. People will pay money for that.

Besides - you'll be on the phone for 6 hours with Dell support trying to find someone who speaks English, then they won't show up when they're supposed to, they won't have the part when they do show up and will have to order it, they'll send the wrong part, and when they finally do get it fixed it will still be a Dell.

YMMV

Ed Gibbs

[Aramitz]

My TP gives me the same feeling. People will pay money for that.
YMMV
Ed Gibbs

OK
But the new TP have not the same perceived quality as older ones.
It's the reasonwhat I'm asking you if you've used a HP nw8240 which seems +/- as a TP competitor .

[egibbs]

I have NOT tried out the new HP - and I have to say that I have a deep respect for HP going back to the days when they made truly excellent test equipment. They were a company of engineers second to none. That HP sadly is long gone, but HP still has a warm spot in my heart and probably always will. If Lenovo turns the TP line into crap HP is probably where I will go.

As far as TP quality declining, I've only owned two - a T20 and a T42p. I have to say that in fit, finish, and the elusive "feel" my T42p is in every way superior to my T20 - though the T20 was (and still is) an excellent machine. The keyboard on my T42p was designed by gods - there is no other explanation for how it can feel so good.

Ed Gibbs

[Aramitz]

>They were a company of engineers second to none.

My sister's working for HP in France in R&D cell.
She's enthusiastic about HP , wonderful climate'n social conditions (she has 2 young kids).

I've only used TP (380, 770, 600(my beloved), A20p (the best), T23,R40
and now there is T 42/43 with 15' screen(is your T42 a 15'?) I should want one genuine IBM before Lenovo.
I've just now seen this new HP and I'm asking myself if someone on this Forum have used one.
Regards,
M de B.

[egibbs]

Yes, my T42 is 15" 1600x1200. I love it but I must confess to being glad they included the screen magnifiers.

Ed Gibbs

[K. Eng]

HP has done a lot of good work on their business line since the merger. The nc6000 is a very solid machine. The nc6200 also looks really good, although I have not yet seen thta model in person.

I believe that the "old" HP was spun off into Agilent. When I was in college we had a bunch of logic analyzers that were clearly of the same model, but some of them said HP and some of them said Agilent.

I have NOT tried out the new HP - and I have to say that I have a deep respect for HP going back to the days when they made truly excellent test equipment. They were a company of engineers second to none. That HP sadly is long gone, but HP still has a warm spot in my heart and probably always will. If Lenovo turns the TP line into crap HP is probably where I will go.
...
Ed Gibbs

[Aramitz]

Yes, my T42 is 15" 1600x1200. I love it but I must confess to being glad they included the screen magnifiers.

Ed Gibbs

For the web, using Opera 8 is very easy for increasing font size .
I 'll buy one of the least T42P still on sale.

[egibbs]

I believe that the "old" HP was spun off into Agilent. When I was in college we had a bunch of logic analyzers that were clearly of the same model, but some of them said HP and some of them said Agilent.

Yes - the "real HP" is now Agilent, and they still make some pretty good equipment.

HP used to publish a great magazine called The HP Journal - it was a slick, thick monthly full of papers written by their engineers on stuff they had done. I used to read it cover to cover.

One issue they focused on a new instrument (it may have been a network analyzer - I forget) and the design teams responsible for all of the components. One of the components was an instrumentation printer that had to be able to print both text and graphics and do it cheaply. The team responsible for the print head had an article about their novel design - they used a reservior filled with ink and a pizeo-electric elemement that forced tiny droplets of ink through an orifice.

It took a few years, but that one little invention completely reshaped their company. I wonder if they had any clue...

Ed Gibbs

[selvan777]

I don't like HP at all.

[runixd]

very nice discussion, but back to the question:

Has anybody actually used HP nw 8240 and can give oppinion about this specific model, comparing to new high end T series ?

[Aramitz]

very nice discussion, but back to the question:

Has anybody actually used HP nw 8240 and can give oppinion about this specific model, comparing to new high end T series ?

Thanx for your help, beloved rosbif

[emorphien]

Besides - you'll be on the phone for 6 hours with Dell support trying to find someone who speaks English, then they won't show up when they're supposed to, they won't have the part when they do show up and will have to order it, they'll send the wrong part, and when they finally do get it fixed it will still be a Dell.

Nonsense like that really doesn't help anyone.

[runixd]

very nice discussion, but back to the question:

Has anybody actually used HP nw 8240 and can give oppinion about this specific model, comparing to new high end T series ?

Thanx for your help, beloved rosbif

I so feel your pain, I was trying to find an answer to this question for the past week myself, but people keep ranting and ranting and ranting and trolling and trolling how IBM is so great, how HP sux, how IBM this and HP that, how they love IBM and hate HP or how IBM is so ugly and HP is so much cheaper. Basically, a noise for a dollar with value for a penny.

In attempt to make some input for your question:
From what I gathered, business class HP is built just as good as High End IBM. They both equally great and equally expensive. As to your trackpoint question, I didn't look into it, as I'm sure it is configurable (Is that what you meant?)

Also, I love thinkpad myself, but when I first looked at nw8240 I thought "They FINALLY got it, perfect thinkpad with HP badge on". If you consider the fact that nw8240 has:
-widescreen
-ati v5000
-Thinkpad like looks and feels: magnesium, trackpoint, etc etc
-1394, Serial instead of parallel, +1 usb, card reader
-Even has Embedded Security Module

If only it had a thinklight alternative, they could as well name it IBM Thinkpad , since thinpad is now IBM Lenovo.

If someone tells me this is not what you'd love IBM to release, instead of 3 year old 14"/15" design, then I'd be interested to know why not.
The question is of course there, will you try the new HP, no reputation, no long term usage reports/reviews, basically nothing, but everything you'd love to have in thinkpad
or
Will you go with something you trust and confident about ?:)

What we miss here is a thinkpad user, who has actually touched it and used it, to give a real oppinion.

[slagmi]

"the "real HP" is now Agilent"

My cousin works there- for him it was "just a name change; same office, same job making the same stuff, same people I've worked with for 10 years"

So it's still the real HP to me too.

[K. Eng]

The HP model looks very nice, but I was bummed to see that the trackpoint on it doesn't have a scroll key

However, the machine has initially received high praise. It got almost perfect ratings from PC World: http://www.pcworld.com/reviews/article/ ... 204,00.asp

Assuming the model is reliable, it is a very strong competitor to the 15" T4xp series, at least among people who don't care much about portability. I wish I could get my hands one one to test out, though I wonder if anything can live up to the useability of my T40.

I am actually more interested right now in the HP Compaq nc62x0 series notebooks. They look like T4x clones. However, they lack a ThinkLight, scroll key, and comparable active protection system. I've heard battery life is also not so great compared to the T4x. Still, I'd like to try one to see how it matches up.

If only it had a thinklight alternative, they could as well name it IBM Thinkpad , since thinpad is now IBM Lenovo.
...
The question is of course there, will you try the new HP, no reputation, no long term usage reports/reviews, basically nothing, but everything you'd love to have in thinkpad
...
What we miss here is a thinkpad user, who has actually touched it and used it, to give a real oppinion.

[runixd]

k.Eng It does have a scroll key for trackpoint, in fact poiting device set is the same as thinkpad t. The link to review you posted is actually NC8230 not the nw8240, which is a different laptop.
Could you please explain "Don't care much about portability" ?

Here is some links for nw8240:
specs:
http://h18000.www1.hp.com/products/quic ... 140_ca.pdf
flash thingy:
http://h41111.www4.hp.com/viewpoint3d/s ... ptocontent
pictures:
http://notebookforums.com/showthread.php?t=84360

[runixd]

I just looked at nc6220, shared graphics, 1024x768 and this one doesn't actually have trackpoint scroll, why would you choose it over thinkpad, you can pick a much better thinkpad for the price imo.

[Navck]

"Trackstick"
"Trackpoint"
[censored] thats starting to sound bad...
No CD/DVD hotswapping with harddrive...
Lack of browser forward/back buttons
No Thinklight

Still rather have an T43, or T43p preferablly.

[K. Eng]

Oops... wrong machine

It is relatively light for a 15.4" widescreen, but still not as light as a 14" T4x or nc6230, and the footprint is larger. It's not exactly a desktop replacement, but it's not as easy to tote around as lighter stuff.

k.Eng It does have a scroll key for trackpoint, in fact poiting device set is the same as thinkpad t. The link to review you posted is actually NC8230 not the nw8240, which is a different laptop.
Could you please explain "Don't care much about portability" ?