Linux for an oldie (not TP sorry)

[DaKKS]

I got myself one of those cute Toshiba subnotebooks from the late 90's. Portage 3020ct. Figured it would replace my Jornada. Gonna use it for some basic web browsing and word processing but mostly it will act as a remote for my desktop and server via VNC.

Anyway, i need a good OS for it. I don't think I could run windows on it. Maybe 2k or XP, but those are too heavy for it and i don't have a floppy drive, which more or less strikes any earlier windows version.

The specs are: 300mhz Pentium MMX, 64 MB ram, NeoMagic 2MB and a 4GB compact flash card. I probably going to rethink the latter, running swap off a CF card is just asking for trouble. Might get a 5400rpm drive instead.

I've set my sights on TinyCore, mostly because it runs quite well on my 550CDT (200mhz, 160mb ram) and it even has driver for my wifi card (DWL-G650). But i've also considered a stripped down version of Debian, which would be a tad more compatible. Best would be an Ubuntu based os since i'm more familiar with those, but i reckon you can strip Ubuntu that much.

Puppy would be a good bet if i had more ram, but with 64mb and absolute no way of upgrading, its a bust. Normally i'd put a stripped down version of XP on it. But even if i strip it bare, it struggles to run with 128MB. Wouldn't want to torture myself by running it with 64mb.

Any ideas or experiences?

EDIT: I'm not against running a CLI system as long as its not stripped down enough to prevent normal use.

Also, if anyone doesn't know what I'm talking about. Its one of these. Cute little bugger innit?

[twistero]

For really lightweight Linux distributions that gives you full control of what to install / run, I would suggest Slackware. The recommended hardware requirements for the latest version (14.0) is 128MB RAM, although it should run on less; for 12.2 the requirement is 64MB, and it still gets security updates.

Normally I would suggest Arch Linux for low-end machines, but this one just might be a little bit too weak for that. I had Arch running on a Lifebook with a 700MHz PIII (which was throttled down to 300MHz by BIOS) and 256MB RAM, which was usable but slow.

[DaKKS]

Thanks for the tip mate, but slack is never, ever, going near any of my computers ever again. The [censored] thing is instant migraine. I spent a month getting it to work on an old P3 system and i never got it sorted.

Hell, even arch, which is doent even know the meaning of the word user friendly is easier to install and configure....

Edit: also, slack requires a floppy drive, which i dont have. No floppy and no cd/dvd. Only emulated USB boot via plop.

Currently testing DSL and Debian.

[twistero]

Yeah, that's the bad part about not having any package dependency handling whatsoever. You have to figure out all dependencies yourself. On the other hand, it gives you absolute control in what to install / what not to install.

Also, Slackware does not require any removable storage device. You could easily connect the hard drives to another computer, install Slackware there, pop the hard drive back, and it will run just fine, because the installation is completely portable. That's how I got Slackware onto my 701c. To do the same with any other Linux distro, you'll have to be very careful about generating an initrd that supports both machines.

DSL is good if you're happy with the applications provided. Personally I find it very limiting.

[MunkyCheez]

Cute little bugger innit?

It sure is. It looks surprisingly similar to my Sony VAIO PCG-N505VX from '99 (333 MHz Pentium II Celeron, 64 MB RAM, 2.5 MB NeoMagic, 6 GB HDD, etc.). What awesome machines. Small, light, and incredibly thin. It's a shame the battery on mine doesn't still work. Awesome design, mostly some sort of metal (aluminum?). I also have another VAIO from around the same time that is the approximate size of a VHS tape, in which Sony managed to cram a swiveling webcam (that's right!). There was just enough room left on the bottom half for the pointing stick. Anyway, that's for a different discussion...

Speaking of "awesome" machines, have you considered the Awesome Window Manager? I haven't tried it for myself, but from the looks of it it seems pretty lightweight (couldn't find actual "minimum requirements" anywhere). You could start with a minimal Linux distribution that is CLI-only (or maybe an old version), and then add graphical components one by one until it suits your needs. That way, you wouldn't be installing a bunch of extra resource-heavy crap that you don't need and your computer can't handle. Or you could use a really old distro with a kernel upgrade (you'd probably run into other problems, though). Just a thought...

Sorry I'm not much help on this topic; most of my machines of this vintage run Windows 98 SE or DOS, so I haven't really played with Linux on less-powerful hardware than a Pentium III-500. Good luck!

MunkyCheez

[DRobinson]

I do not run Linux on any machine that old at the moment. I do have AntiX on a P2 333, but it has more ram available. Can that machine recognize 2 CF cards in the adapter? If so, maybe a microdrive in the slave location to use as swap.

[DaKKS]

twistero: do you have any tips for slack? i'm willing to give it one more chance, but thats it. Also, how is the wifi support? The DWL-G650 is the only network card in it, and i dont have access to anything else that would work. Some newer usb dongles, but that's it.

[twistero]

Well, I do have a few tips but they are not magic bullets. The most important thing is to be patient and keep trying; not very helpful, I know, but Slackware is something that you have to get your hands dirty with.

Read Slackware-HOWTO.txt that comes with the release before starting. Read the package information before installing any packages: often they mention what other packages they depend on. Use the Slackware wiki http://docs.slackware.com/ and Google for every problem.

For applications not in the official package repository, try SlackBuilds: http://www.slackbuilds.org/


Network card support depend on the chipset the card uses. There are a lot of revisions of DWL-G650, and each of them uses a different chipset: see here http://wikidevi.com/w/index.php?title=S ... wl-g650%22

[DaKKS]

Well, it seems linux is out. Every linux bootloader interferes with the bootloader already on the drive and they commit mutual suicide.

Problem is, without PLOP boot manager i cant install an operating system, and the operating systems cant overwrite PLOP. Tried Tinycore, DSL, Vector, Slax, Debian, Slackware, slitaz and tinyme. I'm currently installing a vanilla Windows XP build. By even it it does install and boot, it will be unbelievably slow. I might be able to tweak it enough so that the super doesn't get the sudden urge to kill himself, but it will never run as well as Linux would have.

Also, I don't know it the trackpoint has taken any damage or its just bad drivers in linux, but it didn't work in DSL and Tinycore. I haven't reached a desktop environment in any of the others.

[twistero]

Ah, bootloaders. They're fun.

What's the maximum hard drive size for that model available stock? If the 4GB CF card is too big to the BIOS's liking, it may manifest as weird boot errors. I tried a 4GB CF card in my 701c, and nothing will boot off it; a 1GB card works fine.

Currently my 701c boots with a MS-Dos boot loader, which chain loads GRUB4DOS, which boots the Linux kernel. If I install GRUB4DOS to the MBR, then it will pause for ~30 seconds at each boot, apparently trying to figure out the HDD size. I also have LILO installed to the partition header, which boots Linux fine, but I like GRUB better.

In your case, it might be a good idea to have a small fat32 partition at the beginning of the disk, connect the CF card to another computer and install GRUB4DOS from there, and put nothing but GRUB4DOS's grldr file (and possibly the boot menu) in the small partition. If GRUB comes up when you put the CF card back, you now have a fairly robust boot loader in place. As long as you don't overwrite the small partition, the only thing you need to do to restore GRUB4DOS is to take the CF card to the other computer and install GRUB4DOS to MBR again. Bonus point: yo can easily chain load PLOP from GRUB too.

(This relates to another thing I like about Slackware / Arch: they give you full control of what boot loader to install / not install, so you never mess up an existing boot loader if you don't want to.)

[DaKKS]

Ah, bootloaders. They're fun.

What's the maximum hard drive size for that model available stock? If the 4GB CF card is too big to the BIOS's liking, it may manifest as weird boot errors. I tried a 4GB CF card in my 701c, and nothing will boot off it; a 1GB card works fine.

Currently my 701c boots with a MS-Dos boot loader, which chain loads GRUB4DOS, which boots the Linux kernel. If I install GRUB4DOS to the MBR, then it will pause for ~30 seconds at each boot, apparently trying to figure out the HDD size. I also have LILO installed to the partition header, which boots Linux fine, but I like GRUB better.

In your case, it might be a good idea to have a small fat32 partition at the beginning of the disk, connect the CF card to another computer and install GRUB4DOS from there, and put nothing but GRUB4DOS's grldr file (and possibly the boot menu) in the small partition. If GRUB comes up when you put the CF card back, you now have a fairly robust boot loader in place. As long as you don't overwrite the small partition, the only thing you need to do to restore GRUB4DOS is to take the CF card to the other computer and install GRUB4DOS to MBR again. Bonus point: yo can easily chain load PLOP from GRUB too.

(This relates to another thing I like about Slackware / Arch: they give you full control of what boot loader to install / not install, so you never mess up an existing boot loader if you don't want to.)

The biggest drive is the on it was equipped with, 6.4gb. But it can take up to 60gb. It goes bongo with 100gb, but 60 is fine. running a 40gb 5400rpm drive atm.

I'll look into those bootloaders. but i dont think thats the problem. PLOP cant chain load. And PLOP overwrites everything.

I'm probably just gonna try and get a floppy for it and install w98 or something. Besides, it turned out that the trackpoint is dead. So it needs an external mouse. Which basially kills portability. I might have an identical computer somewhere at work i can take parts from, but i dunno if its worth the effort to revive this thing.

[DaKKS]

Swung by the office today. Looked into the mirror and told my temporary boss I was gonna steal one of the scrapped scanners.

Turns out it wasn't a 3020CT like I assumed, it was a 3410CT. A tad bigger and somewhat quicker. 400 mhz Celeron and 196 mb ram. Threw in the 40gb drive and I'm currently installing XP. Gonna dualboot with a stripped *buntu later. Bit of an upgrade, but it doesn't feel any quicker running W2k than the 3020CT.