ATI Mobility FireGL V3200 vs Mobility Radeon X600...

[pointfielder]

Anybody here knows any pros for waiting for T43p with X600 (???) compared to
the ones with FireGL V3200 that are available right now?
Does the FireGL V3200 support PCI Express?
Thanks!

[K. Eng]

As far as I can tell, the FireGL V3200 and the X600 core are pretty much the same thing to most people. If you need drivers that are optimized for OpenGL speed and stability, the FireGL is the way to go. Otherwise, the X600 is just as good, assuming it has memory of the same amount and speed.

The V3200 is a PCIe part.

[dukajoe]

Yeah, people are waiting for the x600 in the non-p t43s, ie for support on lower res / more affordable configurations. This in turn, would mean the Ps being upgraded beyond the x600 based chips, most like with the v5000, which is an x700 based chipset, and is much faster than x600 in perfomance. Whether they switch soon, or at all, is complete speculation, but if they do have x600s in the T43, I can garuntee the Ps will get a hearty upgrade.

[pointfielder]

Thanks K. Eng and dukajoe!

Many of my applications will use OpenGL, so its probably
better to stick with the FireGL V3200 and not wait for X600.
Also, I don't think I will need the power of V5000 (base on X700).

[NaT]

Oh, what are you guys talking about? I might loose track of Thinkpad update. Will there be a tangible plan for x600 in T43 and v5000 in T43p?

Where do you get those information from?

NaT

[kanate]

x600 in non-p T43... that's possible and highly reasonable too

Based on T42p, FireGL T2 is basically 128mb radeon 9600, while non-P T42 has 64mb radeon 9600.

IBM should've put 64mb x600 in non-P T43 at the first place when they released it. Don't know what they think to put much lower performance x300 in T43, and put FireGL V3200 (x600) in T43P.

[bert]

The x600 is the same part as the V3200. The difference is in the drivers. Some OpenGL acceleration fetures are only available in the drivers for the V3200 and ATI makes it difficult to use the V3200 drivers with an x600. The reason for this is that ATI wants to charge professional users (that supposedly run OpenGL apps and are less price sensitive) more than they charge consumers (who tend to use 3D for games and are more price sensitive). NVIDIA does the same thing.

[bert]

I should perhaps add to my comment above that there is almost certainly some bin-sorting going on. That is, the V3200 is somewhat higher speced than the x600. Coming out of manufacturing, the parts are then tested to check if they meet the V3200 spec and could be marked that way. If not, they are tested for the x600 spec and if passed they are marked as x600. Now, of course, if the process works well more V3200s than needed will be produced, so many of them will be marked as x600s. That is basically why overclocking works with some chips and not with others.

[NaT]

That is, the V3200 is somewhat higher speced than the x600. Coming out of manufacturing, the parts are then tested to check if they meet the V3200 spec and could be marked that way. If not, they are tested for the x600 spec and if passed they are marked as x600. Now, of course, if the process works well more V3200s than needed will be produced, so many of them will be marked as x600s. That is basically why overclocking works with some chips and not with others.

Bert, thanks for your clarification but that is off topic here. The question is whether IBM ... oops sorry ... Lenovo has a plan with specific date to do this? If yes, where do you guys get that source of information?

I believe x300 to x600 is a big deal for those who purchase T43, but for v3200 to v5000 in T43p, I think that is VERY UNLIKELY possible. The price of the graphic module by ATI in volume of V5000 is quite a jump from V3200. I think IBM/Lenovo wouldn't want to lose their (currently high) profit margin. Well, I would love to have that v5000, should it come out since I do the OpenGL 3-D simulation and programming. I used to run on a HP with ATI 9200 and that was so slow.

NaT

[wn0x]

Since the 43p is available, has anyone benchmarked it yet? I would gladly do this, but don't have the software.

[dukajoe]

Once again, all of this is specualtion based on computer trends, none of it is definate. As far as the v5000, they are indeed much more costly than a v3200. The problem is that HP has v5000 on their laptops for the same price as an ibm with a 3200, for the most part. Sure your loosing sturdiness and good keyboard, but the graphics jump is huge. Dell's precision is awesome quite frankly, with the quatro that is second only to x800s and the like. The point is ibm, and everyone else knows that they can not seriously sell workstation laptops for graphics that have v3200s--no one will buy them unless they have a discount. The performance of a v3200 is just ok, but the v5000 smokes it and can promise much more longevity. I think that they will have to upgrade in the next three months if they hope to keep up with everyone else.

[NaT]

Yeah, I hope IBM would "follow" the market trend. Should that be true, upgrading from x300 in T43 to x600, or even x700 is mandated and overwhelm by other competitors. Upgrading from v3200 to v5000 in T43p would be nice but that will involve announcement of a lot of new models (combination with DVD burner, screen size, and so on).

In the future? Yes, may be it will even come out about the timeframe when Intel 2.26GHz is available.

NaT

[systemBuilder]

I should perhaps add to my comment above that there is almost certainly some bin-sorting going on. That is, the V3200 is somewhat higher speced than the x600. Coming out of manufacturing, the parts are then tested to check if they meet the V3200 spec and could be marked that way. If not, they are tested for the x600 spec and if passed they are marked as x600.

I really, truly, seriously doubt that the X600 is ANY different than a V3200, in maximum clock speed. I know that the FireGL T2 is about 10% slower than an ATI 9600. The gaming chips (X300, ATI 9600) have internal firmware that is optimized for performance, which means that they likely cut corners in the algorithms that e.g. in rendering lines (Bresenhan's or whatnot) and triangles. The "CAD" chips do all the math with full floating-point precision and produce much more accurate lines and triangles. That's important in a CAD application but it's irrelevant in a realtime graphics application like a video game, where rendering speed is way more important than fidelity.

[RealBlackStuff]

You are 'replying' to a seven year old post...