Problems with non-thinkpad option drives on T43 thinkpads

[SCtrojan]

Thanks to everyone who contributes to this forum.
Based on the information here I was successfully able to install a new HTS721010G9AT00 hard drive and flash it with the firmware upgrade to eliminate the 2010 error message.

I did have one problem I wanted to share.

I followed the directions in the IBM HMM to do the physical hardware installation in my T43. I was being really careful about handling my laptop (maybe overly so). I followed the directions but I couldn't get the old hard drive out. It just wouldn't budge and I was putting way too much pressure on it. What the instructions don't say (probably because you would have to be stupid to miss it ) is that you have to open the lid. The (good) design of the laptop screen/lid prevents the hard drive from falling out when the lid is closed. However, it also prevents the hard drive from intentionally being removed with the lid closed.

Luckily I only put a small scratch in the lid trying to brute force the drive out. I was just about to look for a pry bar when it popped free.

Just wanted to prevent any potentially embarrassing (and expensive) incidents for others.

[Brendon]

Thinkpad's have a smiliar issue with internal wireless devices, where it gives an "1802" error during POST if the wireless device is not IBM approved. One guy created a small CMOS crack which disables this check.
Seems to me like it might be just as easy to disable the hard drive check, perhaps only via the BIOS?
http://www.thinkwiki.org/wiki/Problem_w ... twork_card

[bsherm]

This is a very old and long thread. I have read quite a bit of it, but I was curious about how important the error really is. Now that the latest BIOS allows you to skip the error automatically (after a pause and annoying beep) can you safely ignore it? From the support site it appears that the risk is from low-level and older programs. If I am not using those, am I safe to use my new Samsung 100GB? I notice at least one person said they were boldly ignoring the error, has anyone suffered a mishap beacuse they did? Will there be issues with rescue and recovery (it mentions some backup programs could have issues)?

Unfortunately I did not research this before purchasing. I assumed it would be no issue (and we all know what happens when you assume). Ironically I recently gave someone advice that they should also check out the support forums for a product before they buy...

[CRSO]

I ignore it happily with every boot although it is annoying... even with the auto bypass.

No difference in performance for ( weeks now.

[Brendon]

I just received my 60GB 7K100, HTS721060G9AT00, Manufactured Dec 06.
It has firwmare MC30A53A. I installed it in my T43 and I am trying to flash it to the IBM firmware with the following commands:

copy MC3IA51A.bdr MC3OA53A.bdr

hfui15.exe OA53A MC3IA51A.bdr /F mpcA51Ab.tbl

hfui15.exe IA51A MC3IA51A.bdr /F mpcA51Ab.tbl

But it still tells me it isn't an IBM drive and refuses to flash. Am I doing something wrong, or did I end up with one of the ones that won't flash?

Has anyone with firmware A53A had this issue? I have not found any mention of A53A on these boards.

[krcmd]

In my instance, it seemed like it wouldn't flash, but later did, apparent without my making changes. The flash program seems quirky.

[Brendon]

Has anyone verified that the latest firmware update, FWHD46, released 2/15/07, still works for this? Maybe I should try an older one.

[Internaut92103]

Purchased new OEM Travelstar 5K160 HTS541616J9AT00 (0A28419), and was planning to clone my current internal 80 GB Fujitsu drive to it and call it a day. Now I want to replace the 80 GB internal with the new cloned 160 GB Hitachi, but have been reading the entire thread about the famous error on boot (1020?) and wondering if I need to flash some IBM firmware to the new Hitachi, or even if it's possible.

Trust me, anything to do with a DOS c:\ prompt I will seriously screw up.

Any thoughts? I guess I can live with disabling the Error message at startup, but I'm not clear if there are any operational/data loss issues to consider.

And I'll quickly give you my take on IBM's exploits with regard to this incompatibility issue:

1. IBM sold their Hitachi division;
2. IBM, because of their buying clout and probably as a condition of sale of the hard drive unit to Hitachi, insisted Hitachi make their named-branded IBM/Lenovo drives just a Little Bit Different;
3. IBM can now sell these drives, by strongly encouraging IBM users to only use in-house IBM drives, at 3x to 4x Hitachi's wholesale price on their non-IBM line of drives, which neither erodes Hitachi's market share nor IBM's;
4. IBM after the sale has zero carrying costs for their sold Hitachi line, no R&D expenses, no marketing, no supply costs, no inventory costs, no manufacture costs, and is now able to sell, exclusively, a product they themselves used to make and which reaps a 300-400% profit margin based on the nearly-identical Hitachi OEM drive; and
5. I'm guessing, and I would have to research it, but IBM is probably in violation of a half-dozen federal and California antitrust and anti-competitive commercial statutes for pulling a stunt like this. If the new Hitachi doesn't work properly, I may go into Let's-Make-a-Major-Stink litigation mode. We'll see. Consumer protection laws are pretty draconian in California, and I seriously doubt state law would put up with this kind of horseshit.

Anywho, any thoughts on the installation of this new drive would be most appreciated. Best regards.

[BillMorrow]

...snip...
Any thoughts? I guess I can live with disabling the Error message at startup, but I'm not clear if there are any operational/data loss issues to consider.

And I'll quickly give you my take on IBM's exploits with regard to this incompatibility issue:

1. IBM sold their Hitachi division;
2. IBM, because of their buying clout and probably as a condition of sale of the hard drive unit to Hitachi, insisted Hitachi make their named-branded IBM/Lenovo drives just a Little Bit Different;
3. IBM can now sell these drives, by strongly encouraging IBM users to only use in-house IBM drives, at 3x to 4x Hitachi's wholesale price on their non-IBM line of drives, which neither erodes Hitachi's market share nor IBM's;
4. IBM after the sale has zero carrying costs for their sold Hitachi line, no R&D expenses, no marketing, no supply costs, no inventory costs, no manufacture costs, and is now able to sell, exclusively, a product they themselves used to make and which reaps a 300-400% profit margin based on the nearly-identical Hitachi OEM drive; and
5. I'm guessing, and I would have to research it, but IBM is probably in violation of a half-dozen federal and California antitrust and anti-competitive commercial statutes for pulling a stunt like this. If the new Hitachi doesn't work properly, I may go into Let's-Make-a-Major-Stink litigation mode. We'll see. Consumer protection laws are pretty draconian in California, and I seriously doubt state law would put up with this kind of horseshit.

Anywho, any thoughts on the installation of this new drive would be most appreciated. Best regards.

you asked for my thoughts..

if you read the stuff on the 2010 error you know its trivial..

re. 1..
so..?

re. 2..
baloney..
"probably" does not rise to the level of facts..

re. 3..
more baloney..
sure..! why not..?
liek GM they want you to buy tires from the GM dealer and not the local cut rate tire shop..
same for computer makers..

re. 4..
sounds like good business to me but since IBM also sold the PCD to lenovo i suggest you substitute lenovo where you mention IBM..
and its only half true..
and except for the label, i'll bet new SATA travelstar drives are all the same..
witness that your drive is a fujitsu..

re. 5..
sounds like even more baloney..
but go for it..
lenovo and IBM before it have batallions of lawyers, all on salary, just waiting to respond to a silly lawsuits..
but don't let that stop you..
all i ask is that you keep up up to date on your success so if there IS a class action suit we can all jump into the "cla$$"..

re. installation..
go for it, i use lots of non lenovo option drives in my various thinkpads without ANY problem..
though i have not tried the 160gig because i want speed over capacity..

FWIW, sorry for all the baloney, but its a fun word..

welcome to the club.. no, really..! welcome..

[Internaut92103]

And it only came across as a little passive-aggressive. Sweetie, you really need to get out more.

[Ken Fox]

In my instance, it seemed like it wouldn't flash, but later did, apparent without my making changes. The flash program seems quirky.

If you read through the various threads on this issue on thinkpads.com, you will read many similar posts. The firmware flashing program IS quirky, and sometimes you need to try it two or three or four times to get it to work. Perhaps some of this is due to user input error, because the commands are complex, non-intuitive, and there are posts here that people use, which have minor errors in the command line.

If you have a drive that has been commonly flashed, such as a member of the 7K100 family, the odds are you can get the program to work if you try it several times.

[BillMorrow]

And it only came across as a little passive-aggressive. Sweetie, you really need to get out more.

on this you are 100% correct..
i spend way too much time sitting on my [censored] staring at displays..
and
all i do now is [censored] at new users because they don't read the reg agreement..
(a little of that spilled over into your thread, here.. sorry!)..

i'm tired and this whole deal (not you!) is dragging me down..

i would not bother flashing the firmware..
its too trivial (to me) to waste time on, when there are so MANY other issues in my life..

i suggest you just swap the drive and go..
it should work with no problem..
except for the 2010 error on bootup..

and again, i would not look for conspiracy where none exists..

lenovo inherits all the bad from ibm as well as the good..
i have seen new pricing more in line with reality..
and this forum helps in that direction since lenovo does watch whats going on and being said..

please know that i am NOT a mouthpiece for lenovo..
but i DO think i am fair and willing to listen to alternative views..

FWIW, you seem to be a really knowledgable user and thats good..
but don't let (like we all do from time to time) emotions take over an analytical mind..

and in any class action lawsuit, the class members get pennies and the lawyers rake in millions..

[Ken Fox]

i'm tired and this whole deal (not you!) is dragging me down..

i would not bother flashing the firmware..
its too trivial (to me) to waste time on, when there are so MANY other issues in my life..

i suggest you just swap the drive and go..
it should work with no problem..
except for the 2010 error on bootup..



and in any class action lawsuit, the class members get pennies and the lawyers rake in millions..

Don't despair, Bill, we appreciate you! And these forums fill a real need and provide a real service.

For me, the 2010 error would be a real annoyance. I'm not talking about everyday bootups, but on those occasions when there are lots of updates to load, with multiple reboots required, it would just . . . . . . get on my nerves.

I think the solution for T43 owners who care about this issue, is just to buy a retail drive with lots of reported prior success on flashing the firmware. That way you get the cheap drive and get to fix it, in a few minutes.

I like my T43 a lot and have never regretted the purchase, for anyone who cares.

[BillMorrow]

...snip...

For me, the 2010 error would be a real annoyance. I'm not talking about everyday bootups, but on those occasions when there are lots of updates to load, with multiple reboots required, it would just . . . . . . get on my nerves.

...snip...

understood and i agree but still, when i had a T43 i just lived with it..

after a suitable period of being grumpy..
(i need to find a grumpy smilie )

[dtaraev]

Hi, guys.

I'm thinking of replacing my current 80Gb 5400 rpm drive with something larger. I'm considering Hitachi 5K160 (HTS541616J9AT00). As I've seen on the Lenovo/IBM website they currently don't have firmware update for this model. So as I understand that means the annoying '2010' error. Does anyone know any 160Gb hard drive that works fine without this error or there's a firmware update for it?

Thanks in advance!

Dmitriy

[svskogen]

Just a thought, but would this bios "lockin" to only use IBM/Lenovo OEMmed hdd's survive an antitrust case?

Isn't this exactly the kind of anticompetitive approach the antitrust rules are meant to catch?

//Svein

[hmh]

It appears the thread is now too big, so let me reiterate the finer points:

1. IBM harddrives have *modified* firmware. Yes, that's right, it is not just a lock-in scheme (although it does work like that too), the IBM firmware has different functionality.

2. So far, the following differences are known:

2a. SATA protocol hacks/fixes to certain drives, so that they behave and don't corrupt on-disk data when used with the SATA/PATA bridge on the T43 (not all drives seem to need this). Note that almost all manufacturers NEVER publish firmware updates to their laptop drives, and you just need to ask the OS driver crowd to know these things are buggy as all heck, so you are actually getting bugfixes from IBM for these.

2b. ATA UNLOAD IMMEDIATE command and ATA SECURITY FEATURE SET support. Not all drives support IMMEDIATE UNLOAD (park it now!) commands, IBM adds those to them if they don't have it. Not all drives support the security commands needed to lock the drive with a passphrase, IBM also adds these if they don't have it.

2a is critical, but probably not much of an issue on newer drives if we don't get a ton of complains about corrupted data with people skipping the warning.

2b is quite critical if HDAPS is worth something to you. But you can get a drive with UNLOAD IMMEDIATE support (it IS an standard, optional ATA command), the problem is to get the !@# manufacturers to tell you what they support in a drive so that you buy the right one. So far, only Hitachi is serious enough to publish full ATA-commands-supported data sheets for their drives, which is why I recommend never bothering with non-Hitachi notebook HDs (the fact that they survive double the number of head unloads of the others also comes to mind as a good reason to buy Hitachi).

Also, let's not forget point 3:

3. IBM/Lenovo replaces harddrives overnight as many times as you need while under warranty, and a lot of the ThinkPad users are really hard on them, and go through at least two drives. Add to the fact that the thinkpad firmware programs the drives to do very aggressive head parking, and the drives *will* fail more often and have to be replaced.

[HK]

Thanks to all for all the know how and experiences with T43 hard drives.
I bought a Toshiba MK6034GAX that has AC101A firmware. The MK6034GAX
is listed as an associated part # for MK6026GAX ( 60GB ), the MK4026GAX (40GB)
is on the ibm firmware update list. The MK6034GAX is sold as a part for the T43
by spare parts warehouse. I installed the drive and ran the firmware flash utility
3 times. All three times it reported that no update was required. On start up I get
the 2010 error. After reading the ibm explanation of the error I chose the ESC
option, and installed FreeBSD 6.2. The MK6034 works! I plan on reinstalling the
original system drive to run XP, and on running the MK6034GAX from either
the ultra bay slim, or a usb case, both of which will bypass the 2010 error. I got
the drive on ebay new with a 1 year warranty for only $33.88 plus 9.50 shipping.
I installed it in a T43 model 2687D4U, bios version 1YET59WW (1.24 ).

[KWheelerAZ]

I purchased a Seagate Momentus ST910021A from Newegg.com and tried the firmware update (now it DOES say 3.07, used to say 3.06), but I am still getting the annoying 2010 BIOS error. I have no problem buying a USB 2.0 enclosure and using this drive elsewhere.

What would you esteemed folks think is the best drive to buy right now to replace my filling 40GB?

I have a T43p, 2687-D4U. I'd like something 80GB or better and 7200RPM, but without the annoying 2010 error (obviously).

Thanks in advance.

[OrdoZ]

Is there no patch for the Hitachi 120 and 160 gb yet?

I just gotthe HTS541212H9AT00 120 gb :/

[ewalker3]

i followed the instructions for the following drive(exact same one i have in my t43) - when i ran through the third step it it said there we some mismtach and it wouldnt work.

this is beyond annoying.. any suggestions?

It works! Got rid of the 2010 error!
I just installed a new Hitachi HTS721010G9AT00 100GB 7200rpm HDD (non-IBM) and it had the 2010 error.
However, I was quickly able to get rid of it by following the instructions above.

Make the HDD Firmware update CD (provided by Lenovo on the website)
Boot it up, Ctrl-C to get command prompt, then type in the following (the first time I did it in all lower case & it didn't work)

1) COPY MCZIA51A.BDR MCZOA51A.BDR
2) HFUI15 OAS1A MCZIA51A.BDR /F MPCA51AB.TBL
3) HFUI15 IA51A MCZIA51A.BDR /F MPCA51AB.TBL

(I had to enter in #2 & #3 a couple times)
I "THINK" I remember trying:
3) as HFUI15 IA51A MCZOA51A.BDR /F MPCA51AB.TBL
(I replaced the "i" in MCZIA51A.BDR with an "O as in October".)

[JHaislet]

Go through the files on the Lenovo firmware update CD and make sure the firmware versions and names haven't changed. If they have changed, make those changes as needed in the commands you issue in steps 1-3.

Also, make sure your drive model number corresponds exactly to the correct lines needed for the commands.

[benji]

Just to update my post from almost a year ago on page 10 - have been using the drive daily and copying large (multi GB) ghost images and ISO images around without any issues.

I imagine all IBM/Lenovo are trying to do is make sure that hardware used is performing to required specs for the "airbag" software, I dont think there is anything more sinister going on than that.

YMMV.

BTW - I would be interested to know what 160GB+ drives people have been using and are happy with...

[benji]

a lot of the ThinkPad users are really hard on them, and go through at least two drives. Add to the fact that the thinkpad firmware programs the drives to do very aggressive head parking, and the drives *will* fail more often and have to be replaced.

Do you have any data you can point to that would back up this statement?

From personal experience I would go with Seagate drives every time - apart from a longer warranty vs Hitachi I have yet to have to return one... And the only Thinkpads here that have had more than one drive have always had failures with Hitachi/IBM ones...

[Lamfxs]

Hi guys, I had a similar problem but on a different laptop, after long searches on google I finally found a great tech support site for consumer electronics. They have free live chat support and guarantied solution. I am sure you will find some information there as well. I highly recommend it.

Good luck

Lee

[koden]

We couldn't find any results for '2010' inside IBM ThinkPad T43 PC Notebook

search on consumer electronics.

[unrortit]

this is disgacefull from a company thats been around since 1921!
with this lame,pathedic +cowardly innovation techniques,
shame on them directly responsable implementing this garbage
on whats supposed to be unlimited technology.
they can brag about their income and high salarys devouring into
these type of schemes but when they are dead they are dead
(can't use the riches can they!)
may they burn in hell!

[SteveS]

urortit wrote:

this is disgacefull from a company thats been around since 1921!
with this lame,pathedic +cowardly innovation techniques,
shame on them directly responsable implementing this garbage
on whats supposed to be unlimited technology.
they can brag about their income and high salarys devouring into
these type of schemes but when they are dead they are dead
(can't use the riches can they!)
may they burn in hell!

Before you blast IBM/Lenovo for this, you should really read more of the thread and educate yourself. There were good technical and business reasons behind this, and “screwing the customer” was not one of them. If it were their intent to lock customers into only Lenovo drives, why did then not do the same with the more recent 60 series designs?

IBM/Lenovo (I use that term because the Lenovo design team is the same that used to work for IBM) has always pushed leading innovation into their designs. The SATA bus drives were clearly the future for higher density drives, so they designed it into the T43 series. As they approached production launch, the drive manufacturers were behind the product development roadmaps they had shared with IBM, and only one the three preferred drive vendors was actually shipping 2.5 inch SATA drives. To avoid a line down situation with what was to surely become an award winning leading notebook series, IBM had no choice but to switch back to the PATA drive at the last minute. The safest approach at this time was obviously to use the SATA to PATA bridge chip, but as others have written, their drive protection SW used some commands that are standard in the newer SATA spec, but not in the older PATA. IBM worked with the drive vendors to modify their drive SW to add the SATA control commands.

While it is frustrating for user who want to upgrade their systems, especially to go beyond 100 GB, IBM did not have malicious intentions when they implemented the custom code.

[rcrooks]

Just put a 7200 80 gig Seagate Momentus in my T43-2668
Model number: ST980825A

Lenovo's newest update claims that it should work.

Updated the firmware successfully, but still get the 2010 error, uggh.

[fuzzball]

Hi everyone,

I'm new to this forum and this is my first post. I found this forum and thread because I have a T43 with a bad hard drive. Prior to buying a new one, I did a net search and found that there was issues with replacement drives.

I did read all of the messages and from what I gather, there are some original drives which work and some drives which can be flashed to work.

Really, I don't care about drive size, I just care about ease of installation and price. Drive size is not important. For that matter, the drive doesn't even have to be new.

My question is does anyone know what is the cheapest drive I can buy and install with no problems?

How about all of you who replaced your old drive with a larger drive, care to make me a deal I can't refuse on your old drive?

-Fuzz