The search for the ultimate Thinkpad T4x - The start and end

[emorphien]

Whatever the situation with the fan is, it could likely be fixed with software or a firmware flash.

[danny_isr]

First , to make a t43 with the same amount of RAM costs only $80.
second , i only realized now that you didn't compare the same CPU speed on the 42P and 43. so i'm not sure that it's really fair . CPU will effect the GPU results as well as far as i know.
and again , real life test should be looked at. benchmarks are benchmarks.
ANY game that i tried till now on the 43 worked VERY well.
What about a non graphical benchmark . a T43 2Ghz should be FASTER then a T42p 2Ghz !


I don't really think that there will be a point of time that the 43 will be too weak wile the 43P/42P will still be ok.
Usually if you look back on time , it doesn't work like that.

they are too close in performance to make that happened.

hey in the past Pentium 100 was "much" slower then 120 ...... after a wile both where useless . i don't remember a point of time that the 120 was still good wile the 100 was too slow . they where both in the same league .
In my opinion 43 and 42p are still in the same league regardless the differences in performance (and again the T42p is faster ONLY on GPU and it's SLOWER on CPU type of aplications),

It's just like on high end stereos. there is that point that if you want to get slightly better quality you pay double .

[mlykke]

What I do not understand is that you do not take into account the PCIexpress slot in the T43(p) that makes it more future proof or the spread of IRQ's, that make it perform internally more like a desktop machine.

Could you make a screenshot of the IRQ layout in the T43p (device manager, view by connection and expand IRQ)? Here you see the real internal change with the 915 chipset. I am really curious for this.

I use the laptop as a tool. It's been alot of years since i was a nerd in the hardware department(dont say a thing *GG*) so i fail to see the signifigance of this. I haven't had a SINGLE IRQ problem with any of the laptops i own or have previously owned or used, so why should this matter to me? It's not like the laptop is gonna be expanded with 6 added PCI cards since you cant do that with a laptop anyway.

Maybe im missing the point, but in that case please explain it to me so i can consider it in regards to the test if it actually does something. the main goal fo this test is realworld oriented so even though thing might be better theoretically it is not of much interest to me, and in my opinion, shouldnt be to any buyer. In the end it's all about how well it solves the problems in the real world and not in theory

Did you find out if the area under the touchpad becomes hotter with the Intel than the IBM wireless card? You thought that might have something to do with the fan speed.

I havent really looked more into this since whether or not one might be hotter than the other i cant really do anything in regards to the fan. And since both computers have more or less the same idle temperature i dont think there is anything to this. I was only trying to guess at possibilities, but tomorrow i will see if i can remember to see if there is a difference.[/quote]

[mlykke]

How is the fan noise in the T43p with wireless off?

I havent tried that but i will look at it and see what it does.
But to me that is not really interesting mainly because that i will be using wireless more or less 99% of the time and also considering that the laptops are all made to run on wireless network and should therefor be able to handle it just fine.
And since the T42P can run with wireless on without a problem the T43P should also.

But i'll test it and see what happends

[dukajoe]

I havent tried that but i will look at it and see what it does.

Yeah, that would be interesting. I love how the 42 and 43 battling eachother! keep it up--

[danny_isr]

i just looked again on the results .
honestly i'm not convinced about the T42p (i know your hooked on it , but think again).

even 1.86 T43 got better CPU results then the T42p 2.1 !! (why at the begining i heard all the time that Sonoma is only 5% gain?? )
sure the GPU on the T43 is lower (it's not that much IMO for the price diff). but GPU is not everything
PC is combination of things.

your results :
T42P 2.1 Ghz 1G ram
Aquamark 3
GFX: 2397
CPU: 9430
Total: 21,262

T43 1.86 Ghz 512M ram
Aquamark 3
GFX: 1893
CPU: 9830
Total: 17,263

both not going to be pure gaming machines anyhow.
(BTW Play station 2 is WAY cheaper then the difference between the P to non P laptop if games is on your mind )

[mlykke]

First , to make a t43 with the same amount of RAM costs only $80.

True, but that still dosnt give you the faster processor and the P model also has a larger battery included and a faster graphics adapter. So you do actually get something for the money. But ofcourse it's not secret that the higher you go the more you also pay for a smaller performance increase. Thats the way it is with anything from computers to cars.

second , i only realized now that you didn't compare the same CPU speed on the 42P and 43. so i'm not sure that it's really fair . CPU will effect the GPU results as well as far as i know.

Well it's not about being fair. Im not trying to see if the three machines are exactly alike, because if the machines has to be bought with the same configuration the pricedifference is also much smaller.
Im looking at the two fastest thinkpads available and then also comparing them to the 1.8 Ghz thinkpad which is a VERY popular model.
But actually GPU performance in benchmarks arent affected much by the CPU so the real difference isnt due to the CPU and that you can also tell from comparing the two P models. The T43P is a fair amount faster even though the both run at 2.1Ghz, clearly showing that its the GPU doing the work, as it again should be in a graphics benchmark.

and again , real life test should be looked at. benchmarks are benchmarks.
ANY game that i tried till now on the 43 worked VERY well.

Danny, it sounds to me that you are trying to defend the machine that you have bought than actually looking at what im saying and from the perspective that this test is made. Nobody is saying that the T43 you have is a bad machine. Not at all - Its a GREAT machine, but it is not the best out there, not from the perspective of this test.
For the price it is very well possible that it's the best combination of price versus performance for the average user. But gaming performance IS a fair amount slower on the T43 than on the other two machines, and the performance when doing stuff like programing and running alot of heavy programs at the same time it will also be a fair amount slower.
And this test is done from a perspective of a full desktop replacement for doing fairly demanding work.

What about a non graphical benchmark . a T43 2Ghz should be FASTER then a T42p 2Ghz !

Theoretically it should be a bit faster, but not much. Also if you look at the CPU performance difference between the T43P and the T42P you will see that there isnt that much of a difference and it will only show that much when it's very memory demanding.
But as i keep continue saying this is not just about being faster because if it was the test would be very very simple and easym The T43P would win followed by the T42P and then the T43. But there are alot more to it than that.

I don't really think that there will be a point of time that the 43 will be too weak wile the 43P/42P will still be ok.
Usually if you look back on time , it doesn't work like that.

Actually thats where i think you are wrong. Again - for office related work you are right. But then again a 5 year old PC can easily handle the office work 90% of people do today with power to spare.
But when running several big programs at once you will be able to feel a difference already today and in three years time when everything is even more demanding both computers will be "old" at that point in time and both will feel slower than whatever model is the latest at that point in time, but the T42P and T43P will feel a fair amount less slow than the T43. Both due to the faster processor and more RAM (And remember this test is done from the perspective of how theese machines are configured as i received them cause they can all be upgraded but that also changes the price and then that in turn changes the some points of comparison).

they are too close in performance to make that happened.

hey in the past Pentium 100 was "much" slower then 120 ...... after a wile both where useless . i don't remember a point of time that the 120 was still good wile the 100 was too slow . they where both in the same league .
In my opinion 43 and 42p are still in the same league regardless the differences in performance (and again the T42p is faster ONLY on GPU and it's SLOWER on CPU type of aplications),

Well in terms of "league" like you use the term, then all current processor families are more or less in the same league. Thats the nature of it - No single processor company is very much in front of the other so everything is all in all in the same league, but that dosnt mean there isnt a noticeable performance difference and that that difference can actually make a difference, because it very much can.

And no you are wrong when you say the T43 is faster than the T42P. Both in regards to the CPU and the GPU. Even though the T43 has a faster bus and memory it isn't that much faster that a 1.8Ghz can beat the 2.1Ghz. Not at all.
And the GPU is also considerable faster which in this test actually matters.

It's just like on high end stereos. there is that point that if you want to get slightly better quality you pay double .

Thats how it is with everything. Getting a car with 300bhp isnt THAT expensive but pushing that car to say 400bhp is very expensive when comparing the price difference. But thats how everything works, the more you push it the more expensive it gets for a smaller and smaller amount of performance. But comparing the T42P and the T43 is not close in book. There is a good amount of difference and to me it's worth the money, but it again(im getting tired of repeating this *GG*) it depends on your usage.

If you dont look at the GPU performance all three computers can handle most work today quite fine, but the difference you are feeling today will be more noticable in the future, and i know this from experience(both with my current laptop but also with all the PC's i have owned in the last 15+ years).
And when you then factor in GPU performance it just makes it even more clear. If you then go on to consider fan noise and batterytime it just further proves my point.

[mlykke]

i just looked again on the results .
honestly i'm not convinced about the T42p (i know your hooked on it , but think again).

even 1.86 T43 got better CPU results then the T42p 2.1 !! (why at the begining i heard all the time that Sonoma is only 5% gain?? )
sure the GPU on the T43 is lower (it's not that much IMO for the price diff). but GPU is not everything
PC is combination of things.

your results :
T42P 2.1 Ghz 1G ram
Aquamark 3
GFX: 2397
CPU: 9430
Total: 21,262

T43 1.86 Ghz 512M ram
Aquamark 3
GFX: 1893
CPU: 9830
Total: 17,263

both not going to be pure gaming machines anyhow.
(BTW Play station 2 is WAY cheaper then the difference between the P to non P laptop if games is on your mind )

Yes in pure CPU score, but that is in no way an indication of realworld performance, especially not since the CPU number is coming from a graphics benchmark program. But look at the PCMark scores and you can see a real difference, and that is for normal office like work. If i had a benchmark which would test it more heavily simulating stuff like photoshop, program compilation etc. i believe the difference would be even greater. So even though the actual CPU score is higher the T43 cant turn this into better realworld performance.

And about the playstation you are absolutely right. But dont worry i'll buy me one of those as well But i want something which can handle the games i already have - and the 15 games i bought two days ago
But if you only focus on one thing at a time, no machine wont really be its pricedifference worth. But when you consider ALL the differences and all areas of performance, noise, runtime etc. Then it's a whole other story - At least to me. But in the end it all depends on what you use the machine for and you consider "alot" of money.
to some people a thousand dollars is a lot and to others spending 4000$ on a computer is just something you do and all this also has an influence on the decision.
I dont consider any of the laptops in this test as overly expensive, but others might very well do that, and if thats the case then maybe the performance difference isnt worth the money.

But if everything was about price i should just keep my three year old laptop which still handles ALOT of work everyday very well and get myself a Playstation and then i could save a [censored] of money

[danny_isr]

i'm not defending my machine , i just noticed that no one did any real life test /games with the T43 . maybe you defending your decision

well most of the people here that reading your test are interested in same speed CPU comparison.
you tested what interested you ,and that is fine. but when you write down T43 is slower then etc ..... not writing the speed of the CPU might confuse a bit.



From reading your test I understood now that the T43 is the most logical purchase . you only convinced me even more.

just my opinion . nothing personal

[mlykke]

The reason i didnt say anything about the speed of the T43 is because i posted that in my first post in this thread so all could see the specs

And im not really defending anything since i actually own all three machines there is no point in it for me to say that one is better than the other if things didnt really indicate that.

But just to remove any shadow of doubt in the gaming department then tomorrow(Once again its past 4 in the morning here) i will install some games on the T43, but both 2D and 3D performance is much slower from the benchmarks so thats why i didnt see a point in continuing. But fair should be fair, so the T43 will get its chance as well.

But as i said - For alot of things the T43 is more than enough, but for my need i dont consider it enough especially not in a few years time.

But i have stated what i use mine for, why dont you tell what you use yours for and how much you do different things on it. Maybe that can make it more clear to people why the T43 is the logical choice for you.

I must confess that since the T43 is noisier and has a shorter runtime than the T42's the most logical in my opinion would then be the 1.8Ghz T42 since it's cheaper than the T43 But now we are splitting hairs.

The main problem with the T43's(Both P and non P) is the fan and runtime, and mostly the fan. If/when somebody solves that then the T43P will take the place as the winner

[mlykke]

So just before i go to bed, tomorrow i will do the last test. They will involve actual games on the T43 and turning off wireless on the T43's to see if it affects the FAN.

If people want any other tests done it's now you should mention them before i finish up

I actually mainly did this post go get the 100th post Oh well, the fun you have when you are getting to tired

Somebody sugested doing some tests with Matlab. I would be glad to do that but i dont have Matlab available to me so im afraid i cant help out unless i somehow can get my hands on a copy tomorrow, since that looks to be the last day of testing.

[dukajoe]

The wireless test i am very interested in. If you think there is any difference, compare the contrast and color of the lcd screens between the models. Also, this might be way too time consuming, but I personally would be interested on different operating systems performances on the machines. Just a thought

[danny_isr]

my usage are surf , e mail , office , work - UNIX terminal, DVD's ,Skype and such

AND games yes.

like flight simulates , DOOM , FIFA , rally racing games colin mcray 2005 run excellent and the graphics are amazing) . they all run really good . <- not defending my machine just saying facts here

[Bluecat]

Hi, Mlykke,

Thanks for the feedback. The Irq issue is not futile. When connecting a firewire audio interface with my A22m over PCMCIA I have some massive problems with clicks in recordings while using the screen due to all devices running over one IRQ. The T42 should have the same setup.

The T43's hardware is separated over 14(!) different IRQ's. Sadly though IBM has decided to put PCIe, Graphics and PCcard on one IRQ on the non p 43. Now I am very curious to know the IRQ setup o the T43p.

I have ordered a T43p anyway. I am on wieless less than 5% of the time, would like the HDD 25% faster as shown in your test and with video and audio encoding, editing large foto's and working with graphic design, the 43p just has to be faster (by about 25% in your tests).

I guess when you press hibernate the fan goes off ?

[Bluecat]

Just another question. I use my laptop a lot in the train as wel. Do you think the noise of the T43p is so loud as to be disturbing in that situation?

[danny_isr]

Just another question. I use my laptop a lot in the train as wel. Do you think the noise of the T43p is so loud as to be disturbing in that situation?

that's funny , i can talk only for the T43 and not the T43p.
the answer is NO. you would not hear the fan , but that is what funny/sad here.
you like others concern about buying this laptop and i can understand that(if i thought the fan is so laud i wouldn’t either).
You need to go somewhere that you can check it out yourself and decide if that level of noise bothering you or not.

[mlykke]

my usage are surf , e mail , office , work - UNIX terminal, DVD's ,Skype and such

AND games yes.

like flight simulates , DOOM , FIFA , rally racing games colin mcray 2005 run excellent and the graphics are amazing) . they all run really good . <- not defending my machine just saying facts here

Well with that kind of work i can see why you have more than enough in the T43
But i often have 20-30 browserwindows running, VS.NET 2003, SQL Server, MySQL, MSN, Skype some texteditors and several management programs along with a few remote desktop windows. On top of this i sometimes also have a virtual machine or two running and in those cases you can easily feel the difference

I dont doubt that the T43 can play games quite ok. But since Doom 3 on even the fastest T43P isnt exactly mr. smoothie all the time i would VERY much like to hear what settings you are running the game on and how many FPS you get when walking around in pláces with other characters/monsters?

I will be installing Farcry on the T43 now and run it with the same resolution as the others and see how they compare.
Another reason i believe the P's to be better is that while alot of games might run decently on the T43 now, it will have much bigger problems with the games that are coming out than the P's will due to their faster GPU, so im also trying to look into the future(just a bit anyway).

Oh well, they are all great machines. No doubt about it.

[mlykke]

The wireless test i am very interested in. If you think there is any difference, compare the contrast and color of the lcd screens between the models. Also, this might be way too time consuming, but I personally would be interested on different operating systems performances on the machines. Just a thought

I have had the T43P running for about a few hours and the fan ofcourse started around 44 degrees idle, but even though the temp. then goes down to around 40 with the fan on it dosnt turn off.
Then somebody mentioned that after turning Wi-Fi off the fan stopped almost imediately.

Well, not true. I turned off Wi-fi and bluetooth etc. Left the machine for 25 minutes, and even the screen had turned off while i was away and the fan is still running just as fast.

the people who say that this can be fixed by a software update i agree with you. It is just a matter of how you setup the fan to turn on and when to turn off. It looks like the fan turns on around 44 degrees but then it never stops which is proberbly due to the fact that the temp. it is supposed to stop on is never reached cause it's to low. The T43P will not go below 40 degrees idle. Not even when the processor has been heavily undervolted.
So a reason for this could be if the software says the fan should turn on when reaching 44 degrees and maybe turn off when it reaches lets say 38 degrees, but since it cant get that low it just continues.

But i have been unable to find any software which lets us control the fan in the thinkpad. If anybody could find such a piece of software then alot of things would change.

And hoping for an update is not very likely. Alot of people have told me that this is not a new problem and that it has also happend with some models from the T42 series and people have been complaining about this for more than a year.
So when there isnt an update on its way the T43P is still to noisy for me.

But i encourage EVERYBODY to search high and low on the internet for a piece of software which can control the fans. I dont care if it's freeware or not. If something exists that can control the fans then the problems with the T43's can be solved and at least the T43P will have to be called the winner. So if you guys can find ANYTHING let me know so we can try it out.

I just dont understand why it's so hard to find anything. There are tons of software for other brands which let's you control the fan.
I cant even find a piece of software which can just read than fan RPM on the IBM.

But hurry up, since the machines will be returned on tuesday, and if something can be tried/solved it might affect the whole decision and make a [censored] of people happy.

So go search my fellow thinkpad'ers

[mlykke]

Just another question. I use my laptop a lot in the train as wel. Do you think the noise of the T43p is so loud as to be disturbing in that situation?

Not at all. you need to remember that the computer isnt loud. It is just louder than the T42P, and in a train which is quite noisy you wont be able to hear the T43P or at least not in a way where you really notice it and get anoyed by it.
But in a quiet office or at home you can hear it right away without a problem. And while standing a few meters away it dosnt sound like much, when you get in front of it and within a meter of the machine there is no way to hide the "noise" and to me that is very annoying especially when its just me here, but even with others around me i can easily hear it. And if you like me, sometimes use the machine in a room where people are watching TV and so on, it will annoy them(well some of them at least in my case *GG*).

Trust me - i would really like to delcare the T43P as the winner, since i would get the latest computer with the most power. But the fan is to much of an issue for me.
And especially if you want a thin, light, fast and quiet machine - you will be disapointed with the T43P in my opinion.
But since the T42P is all of those things with a better battery runtime and more or less the same power, thats where my recommendation lies unless somebody can find me a piece of software to control the fans.

[mlykke]

Hi, Mlykke,

Thanks for the feedback. The Irq issue is not futile. When connecting a firewire audio interface with my A22m over PCMCIA I have some massive problems with clicks in recordings while using the screen due to all devices running over one IRQ. The T42 should have the same setup.

The T43's hardware is separated over 14(!) different IRQ's. Sadly though IBM has decided to put PCIe, Graphics and PCcard on one IRQ on the non p 43. Now I am very curious to know the IRQ setup o the T43p.

I have ordered a T43p anyway. I am on wieless less than 5% of the time, would like the HDD 25% faster as shown in your test and with video and audio encoding, editing large foto's and working with graphic design, the 43p just has to be faster (by about 25% in your tests).

I guess when you press hibernate the fan goes off ?

Thansk for clearing that up for me
Well i will look into it, just tell me what info you need and where to find it for you and i'll get it to you ASAP.

[mlykke]

The wireless test i am very interested in. If you think there is any difference, compare the contrast and color of the lcd screens between the models. Also, this might be way too time consuming, but I personally would be interested on different operating systems performances on the machines. Just a thought

Forgot to answer all the questions.

Anyway in regards to the LCD's i have looked at them SEVERAL times and i cant tell the difference. In my opinion all the screens are very good and even though a lot of people and reviews have been saying that the non flexview screens are very washed out and bad that is NOT the case at all. Sure, if you look at the screen way of from the side it will look washed out, but god [censored](to all you reviewers out there) you dont buy a laptop to look at it straight from the side. There just isnt any point. You either sit in front of the machine and work where you can see it just perfect, or you turn the machine to face you. Everything else just dosnt make sense.

And the screen is very good in my opinion. Very good contrast and lots of power on the backlight. Hell when i turn the backlight ALL the way down i can still easily see the screen.

[censored].... Forgot the last question again.

Well im not gonna do that since it would take way to much time, and also since that if the T43P is the fastest it will also be the fastest no matter what OS i install and i would expect the difference in performance to be fairly close, so there really isnt much sense in doing this.
And when talking about other OS'es i guess we are talking about Linux and it will for sure run great on the Thinkpads. Thinkpads have always been known for being good with Linux - At least in the circles i travel.

[mlykke]

Danny you have to be the most annoying guy in here! I just tested Farcry at 1400x1050 and it was running smooth on the T43 even low its quite lower in benchmark performance.
[censored]

And since it's quieter than the T43P it makes it all even harder. [censored] [censored] [censored].

[mlykke]

Naaah, you just turn on the T42P and mess around with it a while and you instantly know that this is the right one. Sooo quiet im not even sure it's actually running
And Doom 3 performance on the T43 is not a very pretty thing, so i would like to know what your settings are on this machine.
But in general the T43 is a great machine. Great quality, pretty speedy for most current games and more than fast enough for even heavy office work.
The fan is running non-stop and is easy to hear, but it's not that bad and if you use the computer in someplace where there isnt very quiet you wont really notice that much of it. Although it does have an annoying tendency to sometimes go on high for a few seconds and then wind down again.

The T43P is insanely fast. It runs any game you throw at it. You can run alot of heavy aps on it, even large heavy programs like IDE's, compilers, databases etc. All at once. It will sure handle anything you throw at it now and in a few years time. The fan is the loudest in the test by far and it is very easy to hear, even when talking to somebody and standing around the computer and so on. I have tried all combinations of BIOS updates and embedded controller updates and all give the same result.
Even heavy undervolting dosnt change it and neither does turning the Wi-fi and bluetooth off.

The T42P is performance wise just as fast as the T42P in realworld work and also in most benchmarks, although it's clear that the later FireGL card in the T43P is around 20% faster in benchmarks, although when actually playing games on it i couldnt see a difference. It too can handle anything you throw at it now and in a few years time. It has a notciable longer batterytime than the T43P. When both machines was setup the same way and running the same things the SMART battery on the T42P claimed to be able to give me somewhere between one and two hours more than the T43P, and the T43P even has a larger capacity battery.
The fan on the T42P is SUPER quiet. You wont hear it at all and while doing webbrowsing with several windows open etc. the only thing i could hear was the harddrive.
When playing games the fan turns on, but it is still not louder than the T43P in idle.
All in all a GREAT GREAT machine and in my opinion the best IBM has produced so far.

I hope for all the people who have T43 and T43P's or the ones who are considering buying them that IBM will fix the fan issue. If the T43P could be as quiet as the T42P then there is no question that the T43P would be the greatest Thinkpad laptop available.

The T43 gives a VERY good performance for the price. It will satisfy 98% of all people without a problem and in most cases still have power to spare. But if you like me want the best of the best when all facts are considered then it's the T42P which in my opinion is still very well priced.

I have used Thinkpads a few times before but never owned one. After spending the last few days with them i can see why IBM thinkpads are more expensive but also MUCH better than any competitor out there(and i dont say this lighthearted since i have loved Dell machines for many years). The build quality and keyboard is second to none. The Access IBM functions and all the small super cool details like the fingerprint reader, the active protection system on the harddrive, the "somewhat" spill-proof keyboard etc. is all details which you will have a hard time living without.

Im afraid that i wont turn back to other brands after this experience. I will be a thinkpad'er from now on.
As somebody in this forum put it - "Once you go black, you dont go back". How true.

Only problem is that in part two in the search for the ultimate thinkpad i will paint my computer a nice multilayered metalic candy apple red.
Only problem with this is warranty, buuut lets see what happens. The other problem with doing this is that i then dont know what else to do to make a thinkpad cooler. If you have any ideas then bring them on.

[danny_isr]

The T43P is insanely fast. It runs any game you throw at it. You can run alot of heavy aps on it, even large heavy programs like IDE's, compilers, databases etc. All at once. It will sure handle anything you throw at it now and in a few years time. The fan is the loudest in the test by far and it is very easy to hear, even when talking to somebody and standing around the computer and so on. I have tried all combinations of BIOS updates and embedded controller updates and all give the same result.
Even heavy undervolting dosnt change it and neither does turning the Wi-fi and bluetooth off.
.

My T43 at 2 Ghz and soon 1G ram is almost identical this insaety fast T43p just with a different video card.
so all those application that you specified there WILL work just as fast on the cheaper T43. Heck even the 1.86 was faster CPU then the T42p 2.1Ghz.

the ONLY place that your T42p will be faster then mine is on games and graphical aplications.
on ANY OTHER application mine(or even the 1,86 will be faster.
they have faster BUS faster MEMs you cannot fight that.

actually i'm really impressed that even the cheapest T43 now is faster then the highest T42 !! (in terms of CPU).


So down the road - few years . i don't think you can say that T42p will survive longer.
Actually if games are not on your mind the other way around.

BUT AGAIN i will say that , regardless the differences in performance (better video on one and better "EVERYTHIN" on the other)
they are both still close in performance .
when one of them will be to old and slow to run windows and such , the other one will be as old.

if the fan doesn’t work for you, i respect that and understand. the other arguments don't make too much sense to me.

hope you will enjoy your t42p , like i said before you seems locked/hooked on it i been there and i know how those things works
anyhow that's great machine no doubt about this !!!

Have fun with it , (hope we will end this discussion at this point- we going here in circles)


BTW- I run doom without changing any thing . just install and run.
I didn’t see how it’s running on your 42p so I cannot compare.
It’s just run good enough for me , smooth that’s’ all
and don't forget mine is the 2Ghz not the 1.86Ghz so maybe that made it smoother too.

Danny

[mlykke]

Danny -> i agree with you in most aspects, but no no no no no the 1.8Ghz is NOT faster even with that bus. It is clearly shown in the PCMark which is a non graphical test. The added bus and mem speed helps make the 1.8Ghz closer to the 2.1 Ghz but it does not make it faster.

But other than that i agree with you that all machines are very close to each other. The area where there is a real difference is in the graphics department. But my test is also done with the 1.8 Ghz T43 - When you are talking about the 2Ghz version and adding another 512 mb of ram the price difference is all of the sudden MUCH smaller and so is the performance difference.

The price for the 2Ghz T43 from where i bought the others(have to compare prices from same dealer otherwise it gets pretty unfair) is 2245 euro, and when you then add 150 euro(i know this can be done cheaper but to make things fair i use prices from the same dealer) for another 512 mb ram of ram and consider that the 42P has a faster GPU and a longer lasting battery then all of the sudden the price difference is almost insignificant in my opinion. And if they are almost the same performance in office work etc. and there isnt much difference in price then i would go with the one which has a faster GPU and is more quiet

But there is no point in continuing. We more or less agree except that the 1.8Ghz processor isnt faster *GG*

[danny_isr]

sure

just in my case i had to add $150 to upgrade my order from 1.86Ghz to 2Ghz and it came with 80G hard drive vs 60G.
adding 512M in my case again will be only $80. still far from P model .
but if you have different prices then you need to take different decisions i guess .

[mlykke]

I also forgot to mention that the 2Ghz version has a larger but SLOWER drive. Since the drive makes quite a difference in performance i would need to upgrade the 2Ghz with a 7200 rpm drive instead which would just remove even more of the price difference.

But in the end all that matters is that you are happy with your machine and that im sure i will be happy with mine

And hopefully with this test i have answered some of the questions that people have before they buy. If not... Oh well then it has been a fun few days

[danny_isr]

Since the drive makes quite a difference in performance i would need to upgrade the 2Ghz with a 7200 rpm drive instead which would just remove even more of the price difference.

Well i didn't "need" to upgrade the drive, when it will die i will do that ...maybe. (BTW the faster bus speed on the 43 might give a boost over same drive on 42, so i don't really know (numbers) how slower it is compare to a 7200 on a 42)

About your test . If i had doubts about my T43 before ..i don't have anymore
i realized that it's actually faster then i thought compare to the t42 generation.
And it's not getting hotter for nothing.

BTW what will happened if for example they will come out with WiMax card on PCI X only (doubt it but who knows)…?
Things change fast sometimes in this industry …just a thought

[mlykke]

Since to my knowledge not a SINGLE expresscard is available for purchase at the moment and since just about every laptop in the world dosnt have expresscard i dont expect expresscard to be the defacto standard before a few years time. Today USB is used for almost everything, but remember when it came out. It took quite a while before it was actually in real use. So im pretty sure that at the point in time where everything is expresscard and PCCARD/PCMCIA has died completely then i have changed my laptop, if not twice or more, then at least once

Hell even Wimax is far off being in general use

Anyway, now its time to restore the buggers back to a clean state. Hmm...german rescue and restore - i dont understand much of it
Oh well gonna start another thread for my questions with that.

[danny_isr]

i didnt do that myself yet , but press "accsess IBM" then
protect and recover" -> "recover your computer data"

i think it's there