ThinkPads X240 official release date

[ssd_thinkpad]

I am a very new owner of the T440s and I think this model is actually a x model from its weight and overal impression, while having the t model impressions of sturdy build. My review is here:

http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.php?f=45&t=111758

It's display has nearly the vertical size of the former double digit x models while having full keyboard width available to the x models since the three digit releases. I am currently adapting to the new keyboard, which in general feels better than the one from my T520, but I have a harder time scrolling with END, Pos1 and Picture down and up. Also the browser back and browser forward keys were removed. Reloading a web page with F5 is now a FN+F5 task as lenovo changed how F keys are accessed now. Owning this model for just a few days, I give it some more time to adjust. Having even the display steel hinges colored black shows lenovo build that model with the same care as its former most expensive top models. There were never colored hinges on any regular x and t models. With a weight of around 1,5 kg it could also be placed in the x model class. The new keyboard illumination has two light levels, although I find it unreasonable using any computer as a regular user and never invested around 10 hours to learn how to type blind, it's one of the most both easy and basic things everyone should be able to do in this new century.

[oliversl]

Thanks for the link, can you provide more photos comparing side by side with a T420 or X230?

Regards,
Oliver

I am a very new owner of the T440s and I think this model is actually a x model from its weight and overal impression, while having the t model impressions of sturdy build. My review is here:

http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.php?f=45&t=111758

It's display has nearly the vertical size of the former double digit x models while having full keyboard width available to the x models since the three digit releases. I am currently adapting to the new keyboard, which in general feels better than the one from my T520, but I have a harder time scrolling with END, Pos1 and Picture down and up. Also the browser back and browser forward keys were removed. Reloading a web page with F5 is now a FN+F5 task as lenovo changed how F keys are accessed now. Owning this model for just a few days, I give it some more time to adjust. Having even the display steel hinges colored black shows lenovo build that model with the same care as its former most expensive top models. There were never colored hinges on any regular x and t models. With a weight of around 1,5 kg it could also be placed in the x model class. The new keyboard illumination has two light levels, although I find it unreasonable using any computer as a regular user and never invested around 10 hours to learn how to type blind, it's one of the most both easy and basic things everyone should be able to do in this new century.

[oliversl]

Aaaand launched!
http://shop.lenovo.com/us/en/laptops/th ... /#features
http://shop.lenovo.com/us/en/laptops/th ... /#features

That palm rest is not that ergonomic I think:
http://www.lenovo.com/images/gallery/10 ... ide-14.jpg

[Adda]

Aaaand launched!
http://shop.lenovo.com/us/en/laptops/th ... /#features
http://shop.lenovo.com/us/en/laptops/th ... /#features

That palm rest is not that ergonomic I think:
http://www.lenovo.com/images/gallery/10 ... ide-14.jpg

I agree, that will leave pressure marks on your wrists, yet again Lenovo proves that their products are no longer made to be used, only to be sold.

[Ibthink]

This is an optical illusion (based on very bad Lenovo Render pics). Is is the same design as T440s, which means a nice rounded palmrest front-edge. There won´t be any marks on your wrists.

yet again Lenovo proves that their products are no longer made to be used, only to be sold.

Thats wrong, as the palmrest is still rounded, and now has a good size.

[Adda]

This is an optical illusion (based on very bad Lenovo Render pics). Is is the same design as T440s, which means a nice rounded palmrest front-edge. There won´t be any marks on your wrists.

Looks like something that will leave marks to me:
http://blog.laptopmag.com/wpress/wp-con ... 02x400.jpg

Slight curve, rounded edge, bot not rounded enough to avoid having your arm or palm rest on the corner.
I agree, the renders are misleading.

Compare that to these:
http://msinetpub.vo.llnwd.net/d1/keithc ... 0/left.jpg

If the screen hinges where properly designed, the display would sit higher too, but nooo, folding it back behind the laptop is better... why? how? no it's not.

Demonstrated here, T430s vs. T440s:
http://www.digitaltrends.com/wp-content ... -front.jpg

Looks like an old HP had offspring with Apple, and someone wrote ThinkPad on it.

Hmm no that X240 palmrest really doesn't look good to me:
http://www.digitaltrends.com/wp-content ... -right.jpg

[Ibthink]

Again, no, it won´t. Compared to previous X-ThinkPads, the palmrest is no much bigger, which means your hands are no not longer resting on this rounded Edge, they are resting completly on the Palmrest, even if you have big Hands. The slight rounded Edge is enough rounded to not leave any marks. If you were talking about the T430u, I would agree, but not the new T/X/W models. I use this new design every day, and don´t have any problems with it. How long have you used one of the new models?

Another point, compared to previous ThinkPads, the Plamrest is now slightly rubberized. It is now much nicer to touch and to lay your hands on it than before.

I guess nobody will have problems with the new palmrest design, and I have not read any complains about it yet from users in our German forum for example. Maybe because there is no reason to complain about something thats no issue at all.

Looks like an old HP had offspring with Apple, and someone wrote ThinkPad on it.

Nonsense. Because of the new palmrest design, it now looks more like a square box again (like ThinkPads originaly did). Thats makes it an HP-Apple mixture? I don´t think so...

The design is very original.

[Adda]

Again, no, it won´t. Compared to previous X-ThinkPads, the palmrest is no much bigger, which means your hands are no not longer resting on this rounded Edge, they are resting completly on the Palmrest, even if you have big Hands. The slight rounded Edge is enough rounded to not leave any marks. If you were talking about the T430u, I would agree, but not the new T/X/W models. I use this new design every day, and don´t have any problems with it. How long have you used one of the new models?

Another point, compared to previous ThinkPads, the Plamrest is now slightly rubberized. It is now much nicer to touch and to lay your hands on it than before.

I guess nobody will have problems with the new palmrest design, and I have not read any complains about it yet from users in our German forum for example.

So the palm rest surface is like the old X20 then?

I do see a problem with that palmrest, it might be alright if your elbows are resting on the table the laptop is on, but if not, then then pressure marks.

If it was not for the curved palmrest on my W510, it would make marks on my wrists, unless i rested my elbows higher, my skin is like memory foam, seriously.

Maybe others haven't complained, but I have.

Edit: I would very much like to see classic ThinkPad that resembles Lenovo's current offerings, because I can't find them.
The older ones have curved palmrests and the clamshell design, very far off what Lnovo does now, they are assembled differently too, different keyboard, the 570 series might has the same color though.

Old HP busines laptop:
http://images03.olx.com.pk/ui/16/80/60/ ... -combo.jpg

Classic ThinkPad:
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-6DQVJDUHwnI/U ... 1413_b.jpg

Apple:
http://i.i.cbsi.com/cnwk.1d/i/tim/2012/ ... 20x433.jpg

Only two of those resemble current Lenovo's.

[Ibthink]

Well, the picture of the classic ThinkPad you posted is a pretty nice example for the Design of the ThinkPad budget lines - originaly launched with the ThinkPad 570 we can see on this picture. A- and R-Series continued this design ("sharp front edge"), and the L-Series still looks a bit like that. Originaly, the "premium" lines had a more square, boxy shape, like the 600-Series for example. Thats still the case today. See the comparison of the T440p and the L440 in this aspect (bad renders again, but there are no real pictures of these yet):
http://www.lapstars.de/media/images/popup/T440p_1.JPG
http://www.lapstars.de/media/images/popup/L440_1.JPG

See these pictures:
http://thinkwiki.de/images/3/38/600xvorne.jpg
The best example, the premium line back then, and also a more square palmrest front edge.

Even older ThinkPads also all had this a more square front-edge: http://oldcomputers.net/pics/ibm-thinkpad-750c.jpg

And for example the 770x: http://thinkwiki.de/Datei:ThinkPad_770x_1_IMG_3368.jpg

And one good example for newer models is the T60: http://www.christlicheranzeigenmarkt.de ... 4b4d88.jpg This was a return to the more classic ThinkPad design is this aspect.

I don´t see anything on the new ThinkPads that looks like this HP you linked, and even less with the Macbook. The new Thinkpads look more like the ThinkPad you liked than they look like the HP or the Macbook. The only thing that is more like the Macbooks than before is maybe that the screen is now behind the base, if you take the T440s or the X240 as an example. But there are still models with the classic top-mount hinge, like the T440p, the T540p/W540 and the L-Series.

In my opinion, the new models clearly look like ThinkPads. See this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bgZJeVIxGcA A nice video about the X240s. At the end (at ~ 5:00), they are comparing it with the ThinkPad 240.

[Adda]

We don't see the same thing.

The L440 and T440p look like ThinkPad Edge machines at best, with the bland look of a MacBook pulled over it, and the same lack of keys, and ergonomics, it's all about streamlining, at the expense of usability.

The ThinkPad 600 series has the clamshell design, and a nice curved edge, nothing like the new Lenovos.

Edit: Since you edited it, I'd do so as well.
ThinkPad 770 series has the clamshell design and curved plamrest, on that model it does look like it might be a problem.
http://www.shimafukurou.jp/thinkpad/ima ... -01-03.jpg

I'll actually go as far as to say that my beloved A30 leaves marks on my wrists in certain situations, but since that's the only complaint about it's ergonomics and feature set, I don't care much, all in all, it has the best ergonomics of any ThinkPad.

I'm not saying IBM never improved their design, I'm saying Lenovo started messing up beyond 2011, and finally failed completely.

I'm don't care if it looks square or not, I care about how curved the front edge is, for ergonomic reasons.

The really old ThinkPads have no palmrest at all, so comparing to those doesn't make sense.

The T60 also has a curved palmrest...

Did you even look at these?
http://msinetpub.vo.llnwd.net/d1/keithc ... 0/left.jpg

http://www.digitaltrends.com/wp-content ... -right.jpg

We really do not see the same things at all, new Lenovo's have a Apple style keyboard, Apple style lack of functionality, and the same smooth look, no detail no nothing, just a smooth box, cheaper to make I'm sure.
Some of them even has glass in front of the screen for reasons explainable.
Take that, and make it in the rough shape of that old HP and you have what Lenovo is making today.

Look at this marketing pic, what is wrong with that pic? I'll tell you, if the sun is in the wrong place at the wrong time, the driver will be blinded.
http://blog.lenovo.com/images/uploads/b ... tom%29.jpg

Edit2: comparing the new 240 to the old is a bit silly as the old one looks far better made then the new.
Smaller footprint, higher screen elevation, better screen format, better keyboard layout, smaller size in general, where is the improvement?

[Ibthink]

The L440 and T440p look like ThinkPad Edge machines at best, with the bland look of a MacBook pulled over it, and the same lack of keys, and ergonomics, it's all about streamlining, at the expense of usability.

No. The Edge Series (which does not even exist anymore, since Lenovo is now calling the Edge machines only "E-Series") looks and feels very different. And yet again, I have mentioned that these are renders.

There is no "lack of ergonomics" for the new design. It is an unprooven claim. To make one for myself: In my opinion the new design is more ergonomical designed than the former design, and I have tested both side-by-side for myself.

There is also no "bland Macbook look". How does this: http://japan.cnet.com/storage/2013/10/1 ... g_1128.jpg looks like this: http://www.notebookcheck.com/fileadmin/ ... G_3200.jpg Again, this is abolut nonsense.

Maybe you think like this "it has a chiclet keyboard and a ClickPad, so its a Macbook". Sorry, but thats more than unlogical. Does this mean every laptop with a clickpad and a chiclet keyboard looks the same? And does that mean all older laptops with classic keys and a TouchPad with dedicated buttons look the same? Obviously not.

Repeating this ("ThinkPads look likes Macs now") does not make it more logical. And another side note: The implementations of the ClickPad and of the Chiclet keyboard look and feel very different from the Macbook implementation.

I'm don't care if it looks square or not, I care about how curved the front edge is, for ergonomic reasons.

At one point you don´t care about the design, but at another point, you do.

Also, this is not just about design. If the palmrest edge is sharp like on the 570 you linked, it can leave marks in the skin in the belly-region, if your use the laptop as a laptop. I experinced the same thing with my T430u, which also had a very sharp palmrest.

Some of them even has glass in front of the screen for reasons explainable.

Well, maybe because Touchscreens without glass in front are not very good to use...the models with glass screens are Touch, but there are still non-Touch options for all ThinkPads.

Smaller footprint, higher screen elevation, better screen format, better keyboard layout, smaller size in general, where is the improvement?

You are comparing an 10.4" system with a 12.5" system, so I think it is natural that the first one is smaller. Where is the keyboard layout better on the 240? It also has a 6-row layout.

The screen format is pure subjective. I like 16:10 the most, but widescreen in general is OK for me. 4:3 is a bad format IMHO, because it does not provide enough pixels in the horizontal dimension. Try to work with two windows side-by-side, its not possible with 4:3 unless you have 1600x1200, which was very rare, and 1600p are still not really enough, 1920 are the minimum to work comfortable with two programms / two windows side-by-side. Yet I know many people like 4:3 very much, because it has more vertical pixels (well, only if you have SXGA+ or UXGA, or even QXGA, but thats really rare). I think this advantage is gone since this year, the resolutions are now higher than ever before on ThinkPads.

The T60 also has a curved palmrest...

Yes, I know. X240 and T440s also have one.

Did you even look at these?
http://msinetpub.vo.llnwd.net/d1/keithc ... 0/left.jpg

http://www.digitaltrends.com/wp-content ... -right.jpg

Yes, I have, but there is really no need to for me. I know both Palmrests designs in reality(as we have a T440s and a T420 here). As I said before, there is no problem with the new palmrest edge. It is still curved, the palmrest is bigger now and the material is now no more pure,cheap-feeling, hard plastic like on the ThinkPads shown in the pictures. As mentioned before, the palmrest is rubberized. Now compare the T440s palmrest with my old R50e, which is a non-rubberized palmrest. Yes, the T440s palmrest is less curved. But it does not matter, because the edge itself is much more smooth and less sharp and hard compared with the R50e, since the material is different.

We don't see the same thing.

I think we do see the same thing, but maybe we are interpreting it different.

[Adda]

No. The Edge Series (which does not even exist anymore, since Lenovo is now calling the Edge machines only "E-Series") looks and feels very different. And yet again, I have mentioned that these are renders.

They still look more like new Lenovo's then ThinkPads.

There is no "lack of ergonomics" for the new design. It is an unprooven claim. To make one for myself: In my opinion the new design is more ergonomical designed than the former design, and I have tested both side-by-side for myself.

Really?

http://www.digitaltrends.com/wp-content ... -t430s.jpg
http://www.digitaltrends.com/wp-content ... -hinge.jpg

And then there is the inefficient keyboard layout, and screen closer to the table then older models, pay attention!

There is also no "bland Macbook look". How does this: http://japan.cnet.com/storage/2013/10/1 ... g_1128.jpg looks like this: http://www.notebookcheck.com/fileadmin/ ... G_3200.jpg Again, this is abolut nonsense.

They have much more in common then with a ThinkPad, as I said, lack of detail, lack of functionality, of cause that particular model, is less Mac like then some other Lenovo offerings, they both share the a crappy keyboard layout, and giant useless touchpad.

Maybe you think like this "it has a chiclet keyboard and a ClickPad, so its a Macbook". Sorry, but thats more than unlogical. Does this mean every laptop with a clickpad and a chiclet keyboard looks the same? And does that mean all older laptops with classic keys and a TouchPad with dedicated buttons look the same? Obviously not.

No I think that if one company imitates another, they become more alike, I think you are not seeing the little things.
You must not have read this so I'll post it again:

We really do not see the same things at all, new Lenovo's have a Apple style keyboard, Apple style lack of functionality, and the same smooth look, no detail no nothing, just a smooth box, cheaper to make I'm sure.

In the past ThinkPad where about functionality, the keyboard lighting show what it's all about.
The Thinklight illuminates the keyboard just fine, and works as a lamp too.
A backlit keyboard is as easy to read as one with a LED shining on it, but it doesn't work as a lamp, but it does make people go wow fancy!

What you are saying is, that since an ant and a bee doesn't look the same, they have nothing in common, but they have much much more in common then not.

Wasn't it you who explained how bad the clickpad is? that you have to disable the touchpad to make the trackpoint, erm, "keys" work properly?

Repeating this ("ThinkPads look likes Macs now") does not make it more logical. And another side note: The implementations of the ClickPad and of the Chiclet keyboard look and feel very different from the Macbook implementation.

Please tell when I said that, because I didn't I said that current Lenovo's look like a mix between an old HP and an Apple.

At one point you don´t care about the design, but at another point, you do.

Sure, some things matter, other things don't, do you care if the eject button on the optical drive is blue or silver?

Also, this is not just about design. If the palmrest edge is sharp like on the 570 you linked, it can leave marks in the skin in the belly-region, if your use the laptop as a laptop. I experinced the same thing with my T430u, which also had a very sharp palmrest.

Ok you just do not understand what I'm saying with regards to the palmrest, or maybe you chose not to.
I own a ThinkPad 570, there is a curve leading down to an edge, the curve makes sure my wrist is not resting on the edge unless my elbows rest quite a bit lower then the table the laptop is on.
I just linked to pictures showing that new Lenovo's barely has a curve at all.

Well, maybe because Touchscreens without glass in front are not very good to use...the models with glass screens are Touch, but there are still non-Touch options for all ThinkPads.

Finally you make a good point.
I don't think touchscreens are a good input device though, worst ergonomics, just bling bling for no reason at all.

You are comparing an 10.4" system with a 12.5" system, so I think it is natural that the first one is smaller. Where is the keyboard layout better on the 240? It also has a 6-row layout.

You linked to it, I commented on it, but then a X20 has a smaller foot print then the X240 too.
The ThinkPad 240 is so tiny, that a 6 row keyboard makes sense, it would be difficult to fit more on there without compromising ergonomics and/or keysize.

The screen format is pure subjective. I like 16:10 the most, but widescreen in general is OK for me. 4:3 is a bad format IMHO, because it does not provide enough pixels in the horizontal dimension. Try to work with two windows side-by-side, its not possible with 4:3 unless you have 1600x1200, which was very rare, and 1600p are still not really enough, 1920 are the minimum to work comfortable with two programms / two windows side-by-side. Yet I know many people like 4:3 very much, because it has more vertical pixels (well, only if you have SXGA+ or UXGA, or even QXGA, but thats really rare). I think this advantage is gone since this year, the resolutions are now higher than ever before on ThinkPads.

It is subjective yes, but 4:3 screens give a smaller footprint, good for a subnotebook.
4:3 screen make for a physically taller screen, good for ergonomics.
Personally I don't need two programs side by side, what I need resolution for is FL Studio, it needs both vertical and horizontal space, UXGA is ideal, WSXGA+ is ok, HD+ is acceptable, I do miss vertical space though, but knew this before I got the W510.
Then you could say, why not 1920x1200 then? my answer would be too high DPI, and 16:10 cause larger footprint, just like 16:9, so I prefer 4:3.

Yes, I have, but there is really no need to for me. I know both Palmrests designs in reality(as we have a T440s and a T420 here). As I said before, there is no problem with the new palmrest edge. It is still curved, the palmrest is bigger now and the material is now no more pure,cheap-feeling, hard plastic like on the ThinkPads shown in the pictures. As mentioned before, the palmrest is rubberized. Now compare the T440s palmrest with my old R50e, which is a non-rubberized palmrest. Yes, the T440s palmrest is less curved. But it does not matter, because the edge itself is much more smooth and less sharp and hard compared with the R50e, since the material is different.

Barely curved...
The advantage of bare plastic is that it's easy to keep clean, and doesn't look terrible once wear and tear sets in.
Nothing looks worse then a rubberized surface, with palm marks on it after years of use.
I own a X20, it has a rubberized palmrest, it's a pain to keep clean, I hope the new ones aren't like that.
I have had so many laptops in my hands by now, if the shapes are like something I have had in my hands before, I don't need to try it to know what it'll be like.
Of cause, I can't say anything about the feel of keys, and such, but ergonomics is easy to figure out.

I think we do see the same thing, but maybe we are interpreting it different.

I think so too

I see the details.

You see the whole.

[pianowizard]

Maybe others haven't complained, but I have.

I am surprised that you are the only person to have complained about a Thinkpad palmrest's sharp edge. Not long ago, I had a Dell Latitude E4200, which also had a sharp edge and it was uncomfortable to rest my palms on it. I have come across one or two reviews of this Latitude that also mentioned this as a design flaw. It does make the laptop look prettier, because it allows the display lid to be flat and thinner, but it's a bad design functionally speaking.

BTW, it's also obvious to me that Thinkpads are gradually becoming more and more MacBook-like. Not identical yet, but the gap is narrowing.

[Ibthink]

They still look more like new Lenovo's then ThinkPads.

Well, maybe because these are lenovo ThinkPads. But I am curious which models you mean from the non-ThinkPad Lenovo Notebooks.

And then there is the inefficient keyboard layout

Well, personally I like it very much, since I am using it all day since 2011 and so I am already used to it - the best thing about it for me is the position of the pageup/pagedown keys. But then again, thats purely my subjective opinion. Of you are used to the old layout, well, then its maybe a bit difficult to like the new layout.

and screen closer to the table then older models, pay attention!

Yes, thats right, but its only barely lower, I didn´t even noticed it when I first used the T440s. If I would want it to be higher, I could always buy the additional 6-cell battery, which lifts the system 1.2cm up, much like the 6-cell on the X220.

lack of detail, lack of functionality

i think there is more detail-development in the new models than in the last generation. For example: The speakers are now at the bottom (T440s, X240) or at the front of the palmrest (T440p/W540/T540p). Maybe the sound is now not as good as before if you use it on a chouch, but now, the dirt collector, that was there on T400s-T430(s) is gone (the speaker grills tend to pic up dirt and dust, which is really bad design and annoying). Or, take for example, the new spill-prooveness of the keyboard: The new keyboards are now much more spill-save than before, since the keyboards are now isolated from the mainboard, even the keyboard connectors are protected by a small rubber seal (the new design also gurantees less keyboard flex). Or the now gone ThinkVantage-button-bar, which always was a waek point of the keyboard, with cheap plastic and a bit flex in it. etc. There are many nice small design improvements and details in the new design. Of course there are also some trade-offs, but thats as with everything.

I don´t see a lack of functionality.

In the past ThinkPad were about functionality, the keyboard lighting show what it's all about.
The Thinklight illuminates the keyboard just fine, and works as a lamp too.
A backlit keyboard is as easy to read as one with a LED shining on it, but it doesn't work as a lamp, but it does make people go wow fancy!

Well, the ThinkLight was a very nice idea when it was introduced. But as the market has prooven, the people just don´t use it as much as they use the Backlight keyboard, so why should the keep it? I know many ThinkPad loyalists from our German forum that like the Backlight as much as the ThinkLight, or even prefer it over the ThinkLight.

The thinklight also was not flawless. For example: if the keys are shiny, which iften happens with ThinkPad keyboards, the ThinkLight blinds more than it illuminates, because the light is too bright and it reflects in the keys. Because of this, the only model where I really liked the ThinkLight was my old R60, because the yellow light was not as bright, but still as nice to illuminate the keyboard.

And in general, working without any light, only with the keyboard or the THinkLight, is very bad for the eyes. I never work in a 100 % dark room.

What you are saying is, that since an ant and a bee doesn't look the same, they have nothing in common, but they have much much more in common then not.

No. Of course they have something in common, because both are insects. Thats what I am trying to explain: Of course ThinkPads in Macbooks have some things in common: Both are Notebooks. Now, both have Chiclet keyboards and ClickPads, because these are considered modern and better today. 5 years ago, both had classic style keyboards and TouchPads with buttons.

Wasn't it you who explained how bad the clickpad is? that you have to disable the touchpad to make the trackpoint, erm, "keys" work properly?

I never said the new Clickpad is bad, I now even think its better, since the target area for clicks is no much bigger (it is more comfortable to use because of this for me, the old buttons are a bit tiny now that I am used to the new design). The keys work properly even if the TouchPad is active, if you use it right. The risk to misclick is just a bit higher if you are not used to the new design.

Sure, some things matter, other things don't, do you care if the eject button on the optical drive is blue or silver?

I don´t even care if there is an optical drive, thats why I have the T440s and not the T440p. But I would not care, as well as I not care about the Enter key Black or Blue. But I would not say it looks right if the hole Notebook is Black with red and silver accents and then there is one blue part, would look maybe a bit weird.

Ok you just do not understand what I'm saying with regards to the palmrest, or maybe you chose not to.
I own a ThinkPad 570, there is a curve leading down to an edge, the curve makes sure my wrist is not resting on the edge unless my elbows rest quite a bit lower then the table the laptop is on.
I just linked to pictures showing that new Lenovo's barely has a curve at all.

Ok, now I think you don´t understand what I am trying to say. I understand you. What I am trying to say: if you use your laptop on you lap (a bit like this maybe: http://www.mobilemag.com/wp-content/upl ... op-lap.jpg), with the 570 for example or the X1, it is possible that the front edge presses against your belly-skin, and leaves marks there, because the front edge is very shar on these models.

I don't think touchscreens are a good input device though, worst ergonomics, just bling bling for no reason at all.

As long as the laptop isn´t a Convertible, I think I can agree. I am glad to have the T440s non-Touch.

You linked to it, I commented on it, but then a X20 has a smaller foot print then the X240 too.
The ThinkPad 240 is so tiny, that a 6 row keyboard makes sense, it would be difficult to fit more on there without compromising ergonomics and/or keysize.

For the X240 it also makes sense to have a smaller keyboards. It may have still the same size as an X220 with 7-row layout, but its much thinner, and there is much less room inside. The bigger the keyboard, the less room you have inside. The X240 even uses a smaller keyboard thats a bit less wide compared with the T440s, because the keyboard would colide with the Ethernetport if it would cover the hole width of the palmrest. Not to mention the much bigger palmrest on the X240.

On these small subnotebooks, you always have problems with the room It think.

Then you could say, why not 1920x1200 then? my answer would be too high DPI, and 16:10 cause larger footprint, just like 16:9, so I prefer 4:3.

Well, I guess thats no problem for me, considering I use 1920x1080 on 14" (which is more vertical space than 1400x1050 on the T61), and like the DPI of the screen very much. It is nearly the perfect size for me.

The advantage of bare plastic is that it's easy to keep clean, and doesn't look terrible once wear and tear sets in.
Nothing looks worse then a rubberized surface, with palm marks on it after years of use.
I own a X20, it has a rubberized palmrest, it's a pain to keep clean, I hope the new ones aren't like that.

Yes, thats a very good point, and slo my experince with rubberized palmrests. We have an ThinkPad Twist at home (not mine), and the palmrest gets very quickly dirty and bad. There is an advantage: Rubberized palmrests does not tend to get glossy over time, so you don´t have to buy a new one.

I was very worried before I got the T440s, but the good thing is, I was wrong. Lenovo does not use the same old rubber material compared with the Twist or machines like the X1, the X301 or your X20. It is a new material, which is softer than plastic and feels slightly rubberized, but does not take smudges and dirt as much as the classic rubber-material Lenovo used before (nearly nothing), and it is also very easy to clean. Oneof my favourite points about the T440s, apart from the screen of course.

I think so too

I see the details.

You see the whole.

I also see the details, but I am weighting them different then you.

BTW, it's also obvious to me that Thinkpads are gradually becoming more and more MacBook-like. Not identical yet, but the gap is narrowing.

If you only look on the keyboard layout and on the TouchPad, then yes, they are more like the current Macbooks than the old models maybe were. Because thats what many users want. Still, the implementation of both is very different on ThinkPads than on Macbooks, and the "under-the-hood" difference is overwhelming.

[Adda]

Ok, now you are pulling your self together

Well, maybe because these are lenovo ThinkPads. But I am curious which models you mean from the non-ThinkPad Lenovo Notebooks.

It's a matter of definition, I don't think the ThinkPad logo is enough, to make a laptop a ThinkPad, very few people on this forum thought that the "Edge" models where real Thinkpads.

Well, personally I like it very much, since I am using it all day since 2011 and so I am already used to it - the best thing about it for me is the position of the pageup/pagedown keys. But then again, thats purely my subjective opinion. Of you are used to the old layout, well, then its maybe a bit difficult to like the new layout.

I use the browser keys, function keys and volume keys all the time, this makes the new layout very inefficient.
There is no way around it, fewer keys, less efficient.

A deal killer

Yes, thats right, but its only barely lower, I didn´t even noticed it when I first used the T440s. If I would want it to be higher, I could always buy the additional 6-cell battery, which lifts the system 1.2cm up, much like the 6-cell on the X220.

The display has been crawling close to the table ever since the A30, my neck is sore most of the time as a result.
If I use the A30 for a week it goes away, with the T43p it's manageable, the 4:3 display is tall, and if I keep working on the upper part of the screen, things are ok.
Then came the T500, not enough height to eliminate the problem, the W510 is thick, so it's about the same as the T500 in this regard.
Maybe you don't notice much going from one generation to the next, but if you are used to an A30, it's obvious that widescreen laptops have not been made for ergonomic reasons, they are a pain.

i think there is more detail-development in the new models than in the last generation. For example: The speakers are now at the bottom (T440s, X240) or at the front of the palmrest (T440p/W540/T540p). Maybe the sound is now not as good as before if you use it on a chouch, but now, the dirt collector, that was there on T400s-T430(s) is gone (the speaker grills tend to pic up dirt and dust, which is really bad design and annoying). Or, take for example, the new spill-prooveness of the keyboard: The new keyboards are now much more spill-save than before, since the keyboards are now isolated from the mainboard, even the keyboard connectors are protected by a small rubber seal (the new design also gurantees less keyboard flex). Or the now gone ThinkVantage-button-bar, which always was a waek point of the keyboard, with cheap plastic and a bit flex in it. etc. There are many nice small design improvements and details in the new design. Of course there are also some trade-offs, but thats as with everything.

I don´t see a lack of functionality.

Good point about the speakers, they are nothing but dust catchers on my W510 and they make the drainage hole in the keyboard a bit of a joke don't they?
Why bother when the fluid can run right down the speaker grill and on to the GPU!?!?
It's good that Lenovo haven't forgotten IBM's innovations completely.

Screws under the keys is something I would definitely prefer to be without, it'll make disassembly more difficult, the wrong screwdriver could scratch on break a key.
It is good to eliminate keyboard flex, but then the only ThinkPad I have had, that really suffered form flex is the T500 with original keyboard, they fixed it later though.

Well, the ThinkLight was a very nice idea when it was introduced. But as the market has prooven, the people just don´t use it as much as they use the Backlight keyboard, so why should the keep it? I know many ThinkPad loyalists from our German forum that like the Backlight as much as the ThinkLight, or even prefer it over the ThinkLight.

The thinklight also was not flawless. For example: if the keys are shiny, which iften happens with ThinkPad keyboards, the ThinkLight blinds more than it illuminates, because the light is too bright and it reflects in the keys. Because of this, the only model where I really liked the ThinkLight was my old R60, because the yellow light was not as bright, but still as nice to illuminate the keyboard.

And in general, working without any light, only with the keyboard or the THinkLight, is very bad for the eyes. I never work in a 100 % dark room.

I haven't found the shiny keys + thinklight to be a problem, but it might become one with my W510, as it has a brighter thinklight then any other model I have had.
I think the reaosn why people use the backlight more then the thinklight has to do with the wow factor, a backlit keyboard look very fancy.
Many people seem drawn to blue LED's too, it doesn't mean we should put them everywhere, if you read about them you'll learn that they can damage your eyes and interfere with sleep patterns.

The advantage to the extra bright thinklight in the W510 though, is that it lights things up as much as a lamp, so as long as I remember to use low display brightness, I don't need any other light in the room, I do prefer to have it though.
Older thinkpads with CCFL backlights, tended to have a smaller brightness range, not as bright and not as dim as LED backlit displays.

No. Of course they have something in common, because both are insects. Thats what I am trying to explain: Of course ThinkPads in Macbooks have some things in common: Both are Notebooks. Now, both have Chiclet keyboards and ClickPads, because these are considered modern and better today. 5 years ago, both had classic style keyboards and TouchPads with buttons.

But moderns isn't better, and they aren't better.
Should we replace the steeringwheel in cars with joypads too?
Should we replace keyboards with touchscreens/surfaces? (meaning no buttons, just a touch sensitive surface, with letters on it).

HELL NO!!

Some things are best left alone, because they work, some ideas never go old, because they work.

A touchpad is inaccurate, no matter how good you are at using it, it'll never be as accurate as a trackpoint of proper table mouse, but actually, for some things, the trackpoint beats even the table mouse.
No integrated input device can compete with the trackpoint.
But since most people prefer intuitive interfaces over good ones, they never take the time to learn how to use the trackpoint, even though they did take the time to learn the table mouse.
Some things are truly mysterious.

I never said the new Clickpad is bad, I now even think its better, since the target area for clicks is no much bigger (it is more comfortable to use because of this for me, the old buttons are a bit tiny now that I am used to the new design). The keys work properly even if the TouchPad is active, if you use it right. The risk to misclick is just a bit higher if you are not used to the new design.

I know you didn't say it was bad, but the description I read, told me it was a bad design, because it just didn't work very well.

But what you are saying that it's slightly quirky, but you don't mind

What I see is a change for no reason but fancy, and now one button has to do what many did before, all clicks, one button, it won't last as long as the old design.
I expect to read about people complaining that the clickpad gets wobbly as it ages.

For me it's deal killer, the trackpoint is pushed down among the keys, out of the way, ready to be removed, the trackpoint buttons compromised, and the overall design less durable then the old.

A deal killer.

I don´t even care if there is an optical drive, thats why I have the T440s and not the T440p. But I would not care, as well as I not care about the Enter key Black or Blue. But I would not say it looks right if the hole Notebook is Black with red and silver accents and then there is one blue part, would look maybe a bit weird.

I like black boxes, apart form that, I'm flexible.
I'd definitely prefer a dual cooler solution over an optical drive, I hardly ever use one, but it is nice to have a 2nd drive bay though.

Ok, now I think you don´t understand what I am trying to say. I understand you. What I am trying to say: if you use your laptop on you lap (a bit like this maybe: http://www.mobilemag.com/wp-content/upl ... op-lap.jpg), with the 570 for example or the X1, it is possible that the front edge presses against your belly-skin, and leaves marks there, because the front edge is very shar on these models.

I'll just make some drawings then, first a profile of the W510 palmrest:
http://cdn.head-fi.org/3/3d/3dd3c0f4_Untitled.jpeg

Se how your arm can rest against the palmrest at a very wide range of angles, and still meet a rounded surface.

Now the new design, see how the range of angles is limited before your arm rests against a corner:
http://cdn.head-fi.org/9/9d/9d90b4c2_Untitled2.jpeg

The way I sit in front of my W510, markes it's curve perfect, if it was less curved, my arm would rest against a corner.

As long as the laptop isn´t a Convertible, I think I can agree. I am glad to have the T440s non-Touch.

It's good to see we think the same about some things, I mean, who would sit with their elbows, planted in the table with their hands on a wobbly screen, it doesn't make any sense.

For the X240 it also makes sense to have a smaller keyboards. It may have still the same size as an X220 with 7-row layout, but its much thinner, and there is much less room inside. The bigger the keyboard, the less room you have inside. The X240 even uses a smaller keyboard thats a bit less wide compared with the T440s, because the keyboard would colide with the Ethernetport if it would cover the hole width of the palmrest. Not to mention the much bigger palmrest on the X240.

16:9 subnotebook are wide enough to use the same keyboards as bigger models, no need to make any changes there, unless you want it super thin for no reason at all.

On these small subnotebooks, you always have problems with the room It think.

Definitely on super thin models, or 4:3 models, maybe 16:10, should not be a problem on a 16:9, if we are talking ~12".

Well, I guess thats no problem for me, considering I use 1920x1080 on 14" (which is more vertical space than 1400x1050 on the T61), and like the DPI of the screen very much. It is nearly the perfect size for me.

it's good to have options

Yes, thats a very good point, and slo my experince with rubberized palmrests. We have an ThinkPad Twist at home (not mine), and the palmrest gets very quickly dirty and bad. There is an advantage: Rubberized palmrests does not tend to get glossy over time, so you don´t have to buy a new one.

I was very worried before I got the T440s, but the good thing is, I was wrong. Lenovo does not use the same old rubber material compared with the Twist or machines like the X1, the X301 or your X20. It is a new material, which is softer than plastic and feels slightly rubberized, but does not take smudges and dirt as much as the classic rubber-material Lenovo used before (nearly nothing), and it is also very easy to clean. Oneof my favourite points about the T440s, apart from the screen of course.

It's good to know they did something right, but I can't help but wonder why they didn't spend the money on a few more keyboard keys, or trackpoint buttons.

I also see the details, but I am weighting them different then you.

Yea ok, you could say that my ability to compromise, is compromised.