So what do you think of this survey of computer manufacturer

[AllTPedOut]

Lifehacker ran this article:

Computer Manufacturers Ranked: How to Pick a Laptop That Won't Fail
http://lifehacker.com/computer-manufact ... 1467145338

Interestingly, as far as failure rates go, ASUS came in first with the least problems, Apple 4th, Lenovo 6th and HP in last place.

However, I could not find whether or not it was the same number of samples taken for each brand which may affect the results...

What do you think?

[mikemex]

Never tried an Asus. If they put trackpoints in them I'll probably do.

[ajkula66]

The laptop manufacturer that sports the strictest *internal* tracking of the failure rate of its laptops was not included...

Maybe because ToughBooks are not deemed as fair competitors to the rest of the market...

[Medessec]

lol. I read it through and although it pokes a bit of interest...

Asus: 15.6%
Toshiba: 15.7%
Sony: 16.8%
Apple: 17.4%
Dell: 18.3%
Lenovo: 21.5%
Acer: 23.3%
Gateway: 23.5%
HP: 25.6%

Asus- Doesn't surprise me. ASUS makes some pretty hardy machines, their R.O.G. series that a couple of my friends own are pretty well engineered compared to some other performance machines I've seen.
Toshiba- These guys deserve to be up here. I've owned two Toshibas, and they've only impressed me. My old Satellite A305 had an ATI Mobility Radeon HD 3650(same as T500) and a T6400 Penryn Core 2 Duo pumping heat to a single fan. Sounds like a recipe for disaster for a non-Thinkpad? That laptop still is a great spare gamer for friends after 4 years of abuse. If you're looking to buy a basic laptop because you don't have the money for a Thinkpad, I'd likely recommend a Toshiba(or an older Thinkpad. Heh.)
Sony- People need to not knock Sony. The only Sonys that are breaking are those stupid ones painted pink for girls. Phleh.
Apple- Well... this is kinda given. Apple may have a horrible business ethic, but their laptops are a symphony in engineering.
Dell- I've always been neutral with Dell. Kinda fitting for them to be here then... huh.
Lenovo- Again, surprising, except I'm pretty sure the results are skewed by the IdeaPad series, and the SL-series Thinkpads, and those ridiculous Thinkpads with a plastic silver accent. Forgot what they're called.
Acer- They deserve to be down here.
Gateway- So do they.
HP- There should be no arguing-HP may make some nice business-class machines, but if there's anything worth calling an engineering abomination, it's the DV6 and DV7, and all those other horrid low-end HP laptops.

Their other results with the customer service are a bit irrelevant to me-because I've given up on Phone-based customer service, and for me, there's only two solutions to a broken or faulty laptop: Warranty repair, or do it yourself. Laptops don't require lifts, heavy tooling or special training to disassemble and repair.

If you're not me, and you just can't wrap your mind around disassembling a laptop, that's fine. Customer service does matter a bit-because if the maker gets you out of a sticky situation, that's all the better reason to keep to their business. However, I'd like to mention: About 15%-20% of the time when people ask me to fix their laptop, it's actually a fault with the laptop. The rest of the time, it's a problem caused by their own negligence; dropping the laptop while the HD's writing data, stepping on the back and putting lines in the screen, adware/trojan infection from browsing the web, and last but not least: plugging in the WRONG charger.

TAKE CARE of your laptop. If you whip it around, play games on it all the time when it's not made for it, or download all sorts of crap off the internet, it shortens the laptop's life regardless of how well it's made, and puts you at higher risk. Regardless of how each laptop manufacturer's customer service is willing to help you, the less you cause problems, the less you'll have to contact them, and the less that customer service becomes a factor.

[AllTPedOut]

The laptop manufacturer that sports the strictest *internal* tracking of the failure rate of its laptops was not included...

Maybe because ToughBooks are not deemed as fair competitors to the rest of the market...

George,
My guess would be that since the survey was produced by SquareTrade, the data was pulled from the retail/consumer channels that made use of their extended warranties. The ToughBooks, I believe, are sold primarily to large enterprises/law enforcement where extended warranties are not normally part of the purchase. But it would be interesting to see where Panasonic would place in the list.

TAKE CARE of your laptop. If you whip it around, play games on it all the time when it's not made for it, or download all sorts of crap off the internet, it shortens the laptop's life regardless of how well it's made, and puts you at higher risk. Regardless of how each laptop manufacturer's customer service is willing to help you, the less you cause problems, the less you'll have to contact them, and the less that customer service becomes a factor.

Medessec,
Pretty good assessment on your part....Unfortunately, while we personally know how to treat our laptops, it's a different story for the rest of our immediate and extended families who think that we are the phone call to "customer service" !!

[precip9]

It could be because a Thinkpad is less likely to live on a desk.

[Cigarguy]

All that matters to me is keyboard and screen quality. All I need my laptops to do is web browsing, email and some Office work while on the road. My office is my truck and I expect to abuse it. All my laptops (Thinkpads and Elitebooks) have a least 4 GB of RAM, decently fast CPU, good 9 cell battery and a SSD. They are all cheap commodities. Last three laptops was $150 for a Dell E6500, $50 T61p (sold as defective but was fixed by removing a misplaced screw), $40 T60. They are used and used hard and easily replaced. My desktops and servers takes care of any intensive, prolong or data intensive tasks. Few laptops beats a mechanical keyboard, 2 27" IPS monitor, 3570K CPU, a good mouse, hooked to a good tube stereo system, etc.

[pianowizard]

I have seen quite a few of these surveys. In fact, I follow PC World's and PC Mag's laptop surveys quite religiously, not because I find them useful but because I am just curious. IMO, the most important take-home message is that most brands aren't that different as far as reliability is concerned. And since computers have become so cheap, I think we should forget about reliability and choose what to buy based entirely on the features that we need, things like weight, screen quality, resolution, speed, ports, trackpoint, keyboard layout/quality, looks/design, optical drive, etc.

[Medessec]

My office is my truck and I expect to abuse it.

Heh. My uncle's in the same boat. He's got an old Toshiba P-series Satellite with an AMD Turion X2 running Windows Vista Basic(wow.), and it still purrs like a kitten. It's got blemishes, the plastic around the vent is all chewed away from being dropped there, but that laptop just sticks it out through it's horrible life. It's amazing.

They are used and used hard and easily replaced.

Seems you know no boundaries with laptops-which is just fine, because hey. You're the one getting the bargain, and not some store or Geek Squad. However I'd really hate going from one main machine to another-because my setup is ridiculously custom, it's not enough to just move all my work and documents from the old laptop to the new. Sounds more like your laptops are just mobile kiosks, rather than your primary workstations.

Few laptops beats a mechanical keyboard, 2 27" IPS monitor, 3570K CPU, a good mouse, hooked to a good tube stereo system, etc.

True that. But the laptops that try are the ones that capture my heart. D900T, D900F, P570WM, A3x, W700, W700ds, HDX, 8770w.

Unfortunately, while we personally know how to treat our laptops, it's a different story for the rest of our immediate and extended families who think that we are the phone call to "customer service" !!

It's a pain we've all to suffer. But you know inside that you're doing justice, because otherwise their minuscule problem will be exploited at the local Computer Repair shop, and they'll pay $100 for something that would've taken an hour or so of your time. But the feeling of your phone buzzing and it's your brother, uncle, or other close to acquainted relative, and you KNOW that there's a 50% chance it's a computer problem... it's not a feeling we enjoy.

IMO, the most important take-home message is that most brands aren't that different as far as reliability is concerned.

Definitely. The saddest bit is that a lot of computer manufacturers lend their core computer building to the same companies anyway. Compal and Clevo are the biggest players in that.

Everyone should be aware of the system that goes on with Sager, XoticPC, iBuyPower laptops, etc. Those laptops are all actually Clevo designs, just rebranded so that Sager or whoever can take on the troublesome job of providing warranty and sale support, provisions for parts in case of repair, and a front for the customer to go to when they have inquiries or intention to purchase a new machine. Most other laptop brands almost follow the same routine now.

[QWERTY Andreas]

Those numbers are useless.. Simple as that;

- Different manufactores have different series.

- A lot of people just buy a notebook, and throw it away. They don't get it repaired.

- Some Companies with a GOOD service migth have a HIGHER failure rate (numbers of reparations), since people are more tempted to send it to repair, since the service is good.

[Cigarguy]

Seems you know no boundaries with laptops-which is just fine, because hey. You're the one getting the bargain, and not some store or Geek Squad. However I'd really hate going from one main machine to another-because my setup is ridiculously custom, it's not enough to just move all my work and documents from the old laptop to the new. Sounds more like your laptops are just mobile kiosks, rather than your primary workstations.

I usually stick to T60, T61, T400 or T500 so switching laptops involve swapping the SSD (C drive) in the main drive bay and the Ultrabay HDD (D drive) over to the next machine. Minor tweaking of a few drivers at most. Again everything is backed up in triplicate just in case. I also enjoy ripping everything apart to clean, reapply TIM, and swapping components on a whim.

Primary workstation? Nope not in my F150 truck. There's hardly room for that especially when I'm enjoying a cigar as I'm doing now inbetween jobs. Also day time high this week is around -15 deg C (-20ish in the mornings) so I tend not to linger to much in the "office". Between the temp swing, cigar smoke, food, and general physical abuse, it's stupid for me to spend thousands of $$$ on a new machine to for Internet and Office use. Expensive laptops stays at home where it's usually not even turned on for months so durability is not a problem there. 80% of my computing is at the office or home my my desktops.

Got a 08/03 Nvidia T61 that I'm trying to kill via the GPU issue but so far it's been ticking along just fine after 2 winters of extreme hot and cold cycles. Got 2 more T61 and 3 T60 in the queue for when it does. The beauty of it all is that they all take the same battery, even the 14" T60. It's nice to stick to 1 or 2 different battery type and docking stations.

Considering that there are only a few OEMs and my usage pattern, I tend to agree with pianowizard and QWERTY when it comes to picking out new hardware.

[precip9]

The classic Thinkpad has a number of choices of quality in the construction. While some of these features are exhibited by other laptops, I have not seen all of them combined except in the classic Thinkpad:

1. Stainless steel hinges, even if they are still known to break. HP hinges are a horror!
2. Carbon fiber all around.
3. Magnesium frame.
4. The LCD panel cable is actually a flat kapton cable, with much better wear characteristics than a round bundle fed through a twisty duct.
5. Kapton cables can be terminated in two ways:
a. with bare ends, exposing the black trace plating, gripped by a ZIF socket.
b. (the Lenovo way) actual plugs, permanently attached to the cable.
6. Stainless steel bracing and hardware.
7. Good thermal design, with cool running batteries. The HP DV5z roasts the battery!

When I saw all this care, I started collecting Thinkpads. I am fascinated by the care taken in the design.

[Temetka]

I don't usually give much credence to computer manufacturer ratings. Generally for me it comes down to Chevy (Thinkpad) vs. Ford (Dell).

Both are good companies, with some excellent showcases of engineering, and some lemons. I have seen machines from both manufacturers live long past their expected life time. I have also seen machines from both companies fail for no reason whatsoever. Yes, user treatment does have a huge role to play. Take for instance the Precision M4500 I am typing this on right now. Being a workstation class laptop, Dell really designed not only a great looking machine, but a machine that is tough. It looks tough, it's feel well built in the hand, and it takes one hell of a beating and keeps on ticking. One of my clients only buys Dell equipment. They've stuck with Dell for over a decade and have had some great latitudes and crappy inspirons. They continue to stick with Dell, because for their needs, Dell fits the bill quite nicely. Dell treats them very well, and in turn they enjoy a very good business relationship with one another.

The only company that I actively encourage people (consumers) not to buy are HP. They might as well put their money in the trash bin. I won't even touch an HP laptop, EliteBook or not. Just terrible, terrible QC and engineering. I have 3 bins full of DV series machines all with bad motherboards. I detest this company's laptops. Stick to servers and printers please HP.

[pianowizard]

One of my clients only buys Dell equipment. They've stuck with Dell for over a decade and have had some great latitudes and crappy inspirons. They continue to stick with Dell, because for their needs, Dell fits the bill quite nicely. Dell treats them very well, and in turn they enjoy a very good business relationship with one another.

IMO, the default 3-year warranty that comes with the premium Latitudes and all Precision mobile workstations is Dell's best selling point. I take good care of all my laptops and I know how to fix simple problems myself, so I don't need customer support often. I have called up Dell 5 times, and Lenovo twice. Dell was extremely helpful all 5 times, including sending a free set of setup discs for an el cheapo Dimension desktop covered by a 1-year limited warranty. By contrast, Lenovo disappointed both times: the first customer representative refused to even sell me setup discs for an X41 tablet for $45, whereas the second person was an Indian guy whose English was impossible to comprehend. All 5 Dell representatives were native speakers.

I have 3 bins full of DV series machines all with bad motherboards.

The Nvidia fiasco affected many DV models -- see http://www.tomshardware.com/news/gpu-fa ... 11400.html . Do your DV laptops match the models listed on that site?