T40: What to do after XP EOL in April 2014?

[atanasoff]

I have an ancient T40 which, after a replacement mainboard from RBS here, has continued working well past it's expected life. It's great for reading and email: it accepts text faster than one can type and displays (most) documents faster than one can read, and the screen res of 1400x1050 is close to the maximum one can comfortably use without reading glasses. It's on XP, with MS Office.

XP is set to become non-viable for general use in 3 months. Malware is a major industry now, employing some excellent coders motivated by getting a cut or perhaps all of the cash from an operation, and they don't need a Silicon Valley mortgage. I expect they have big plans for April 2014.

Thus, I don't care to just chance it.

Options:
1. Do nothing and hope the AV catches whatever comes up.
This means, to me, that after EOL the machine needs to be scrubbed of any identity hackable info and can never be used to grab something off Amazon, post on item for sale, review one's bank account etc. Fuggedaboutit.

2. Format and install W7.
Seems like a waste of $.
a) W7 isn't officially for sale by MS. A quick check of ebaymazon shows that the retail box version (retail not OEM for less hassle) of W7 Pro/Ultra is $150-200. I'm guessing I could buy an equivalent machine with a W7 license for around that. It might take a while to find another hi-res screen model, but a 2009 W7 box is financially obsolete in most companies, so blizzards of them should be on the market soon.
b) Paid software from so far back does not have a cheap upgrade. I have a full MS Office for XP, and would have to find a free equivalent as I can't justify $500 or so for a new version. That takes time and times is not free.
c) For every bit of software, I would have to find a current equivalent, obtain it, try it out, RTM, and probably pay for it, as free software often means more time sunk into making it work.
d) Total at least 4 hours, probably 8+ including RTM, fixes, digging out old data and moving stuff like browser profiles.

3. xNix.
This has all the disadvantages of needing new applications and costing time, but without the dollar costs. The apps are likely to be free or much less than windows stuff, and the OS is either free or much less than W7. xNix has advantages: it seems to use a stable structure and command language over time, so time spent on it returns at least some durable result.

4. Toss the machine.
Seems like a waste. While it's economically obsolete, it still performs common functions quite well and I have both extra batteries and an external charger that work with it.

5. Got a better idea?

[dr_st]

This means, to me, that after EOL the machine needs to be scrubbed of any identity hackable info and can never be used to grab something off Amazon, post on item for sale, review one's bank account etc. Fuggedaboutit.

I think you are over-reacting. Or maybe you get a false sense of security from running an "officially supported OS". As if an "officially supported OS" can never get malware. You only need to be hit once. If you are so afraid of having your personal data stolen, you should never use any machine for grabbing anything off Amazon, ever.

[atanasoff]

This means, to me, that after EOL the machine needs to be scrubbed of any identity hackable info and can never be used to grab something off Amazon, post on item for sale, review one's bank account etc. Fuggedaboutit.

I think you are over-reacting. Or maybe you get a false sense of security from running an "officially supported OS". As if an "officially supported OS" can never get malware. You only need to be hit once. If you are so afraid of having your personal data stolen, you should never use any machine for grabbing anything off Amazon, ever.

I had a malware attack the the AV missed and was unable to stop, said malware made the machine unbootable and was so entrenched that the fix was format and reinstall. That happened while my backups and other tools were not available nor updated, so it was a headache. Later, checking through backups with other tools, which were newer than the backed up images, it seemed some type of hook had been planted months earlier.
So, from experience and conversation with people in the recovery biz I consider the OS to be non-secure. My 2c, ymmv, etc.

[ajkula66]

I'm harbouring pretty much the same set of thoughts/dilemmae etc, see here:

http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=110218

My vote would go to Linux. There's such a flabbergasting number of distros around that you're likely to find something to your liking.

Personally, I'd start downloading some of them right now, and playing with them to see how the T40 takes them, as well as how you like them in the first place.

A couple of suggestions off the top of my head would include Mint Debian and Cent OS.

[Cigarguy]

Linux and Windows 7 is definitely an option. But sticking with XP is will not be the end of the world either. Just like the world did not end with Y2K and 2012. Y5B is another matter but I don't think my T61 will be functional then.

I think hackers and those who would do harm have moved on beyond XP to Win 7 and 8. There's not really much left to exploit in XP while the glory is with 7 and 8. Having said that, like life in general, a lot will depend on the operator.

[atanasoff]

Linux and Windows 7 is definitely an option. But sticking with XP is will not be the end of the world either. Just like the world did not end with Y2K and 2012. Y5B is another matter but I don't think my T61 will be functional then.

I think hackers and those who would do harm have moved on beyond XP to Win 7 and 8. There's not really much left to exploit in XP while the glory is with 7 and 8. Having said that, like life in general, a lot will depend on the operator.

Exploits that work on W7 may also work on XP but the patches will be for 7/8 only. Code is expensive and a lot of it gets recycled.

There's a rich, easy exploit base of over a quarter billion XP users. That target base will feed an operation very well, even if the average take is the price of a Big Mac.

[Cigarguy]

OK, yeah I'm sure there are bad stuff out there.

So at this point you only have a few options 1) live with it as is, 2) switch to another OS or 3) upgrade hardware and OS. Microsoft and the computer industry would like you to upgrade OS and hardware.

As for me and my T42, I'm running Win 7 and I'm happy with it. Even after upgrading to a SSD, 2 GB RAM and P 755, it's not as fast as my T420 or T60 but it's sufficiently fast enough for me.

[dr_st]

So, from experience and conversation with people in the recovery biz I consider the OS to be non-secure. My 2c, ymmv, etc.

Which OS, XP? Then why are you still using it? Surely you know that between the time an exploit is found and the time it is patched, millions of users can potentially be hacked.

Exploits that work on W7 may also work on XP but the patches will be for 7/8 only.

May work indeed, although not very likely. The XP kernel and the NT6 kernel (Vista/7/8) are different enough, and they have had years of patches/updates to diverge further.

There's a rich, easy exploit base of over a quarter billion XP users.

That, however, is completely true. Unlike Win2K, which was already all but dead by the time its support ended (in 2010), XP is still widely used. Therefore it is quite conceivable it will be targeted. How bad? Time will tell. It certainly makes sense to be ready.

[ajkula66]

Unlike Win2K, which was already all but dead by the time its support ended (in 2010), XP is still widely used.

Funny you should mention W2K in this thread/context.

I've been seriously toying with the idea of installing it on my X24 once I get the hard drive for the little guy.

According to my upside-down logic, it's obsolete enough to be safe nowadays. We'll see.

[dr_st]

According to my upside-down logic, it's obsolete enough to be safe nowadays.

I believe so as well. Unfortunately it may also be obsolete when it comes to some useful tasks, but in any case let us know how it fares once you get it up and running.

I still have a Win98 SE desktop, but it's so old and weak that it cannot handle even basic web browsing these days. So I can't say I've investigated the limits of the OS itself.

[sktn77a]

Given that many businesses will continue to run XP after April 2014, I doubt Microsoft will just cease all support (their track record of putting out deficient software is the reason why businesses delay updating their OS). Let's see what happens in April but I wouldn't get too excited until then.

[jonzilla]

Given that many businesses will continue to run XP after April 2014, I doubt Microsoft will just cease all support (their track record of putting out deficient software is the reason why businesses delay updating their OS). Let's see what happens in April but I wouldn't get too excited until then.

Businesses will be able to purchase extended support for XP: http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9241912/

[Norway Pad]

Wonder if any of the scenarios from the article linked to above will become reality; certain critical updates will still be done, support that can be "purchased" or discounts on Win8 upgrades. The discounts on upgrades can seem like a good idea now that time runs out. Users think they are stuck with a soon-to-be unsafe OS, and while not wanting to spend money on a full license, they will get a chance with the cheap update.

Btw. I regret not buying more Win8 upgrade licenses when they were available very cheap a year ago or so. I now realize what a good deal that really was, and unfortunately I bought only 2 of them.. My T30 units and older will retire with XP, but my newer units will need Win7 or Win8 licenses. I have the two mentioned Win8 licenses, but still need at least three Win 7 or 8 licenses. Way to go.

(Off-topic: Licenses are over $300 here, any suggestions on discounts or sales in the US I can benefit from?)

[atanasoff]

Norway --

In the US, MS has a substantial academic discount program, which applies to even part time students taking one college class. The best deals are for disciplines related in some way to IT, but the basic program extends to any college stuff.

The same thing may apply in Norway. If so and you feel like learning, say, Sanskrit or Hebrew you're at the right time to start.

[TRS-80]

ChickenLittle.jpg

As others have pointed out, the world will not stop rotating, nor will your T40 spontaneously combust, just because M$ makes a business decision in an effort to try and separate you from your hard earned dollars needlessly. Ol' Bill has to remain one of the richest people in the world somehow, you know...

It's all FUD. In the immortal words of Public Enemy, "don't believe the hype!"

I am not going to do a [censored] thing, nor am I going to lose a wink of sleep over it. I would encourage you (and others reading this) to do the same. Well, just keep your AV software up to date (although you should be doing that anyway).

Hell, I just finally put Win 7 on a new computer I built a few months ago, because I figured it was finally ready. I don't like being a free Beta tester for M$. I never installed Vista.

[elray]

Vista is cheap, and will give you three more years of MS support.

As for Office, I've purchased 2K10 PKC's for $40 locally, they're about $60-70 online.
Used 2K7 distributions vary, but seem to range from $50-100.

[dr_st]

Vista is cheap, and will give you three more years of MS support.

It's also been the most stable version of Windows in the past few years, at least according to my limited experience.

[atanasoff]

Vista is cheap, and will give you three more years of MS support.

It's also been the most stable version of Windows in the past few years, at least according to my limited experience.

Vista was also so annoying nearly every corp IT department and many (most?) thinkpad buyers refused it, some here going to the trouble of re-imaging with XP to avoid Vista.

I'm surprised no workarounds have shown up. It's looking like it's

1. Buy W7 ==> makes no economic sense.
2. Obstinately ignore the issue ==> yeah, right.
3. Doorstop. ===> grr, ton of familiar things set up on it, full Office suite installed.
4. Some version of *nix, and find substitutes for Office etc.

4 seems like the only option for those who don't care for aggravation and time-sinking.

Which open-source OS is best suited a T4x if my criteria is the least amount of tweaking and fixing required? I'll eventually phase out using this thing, but as of now it's the closest thing at hand for some common tasks.

[pianowizard]

Vista was also so annoying nearly every corp IT department and many (most?) thinkpad buyers refused it, some here going to the trouble of re-imaging with XP to avoid Vista.

The key words are "was" and "refused", all in the past tense. From my not so limited experience, Vista is more stable than 7 and XP, as long as you install Service Pack 2, all other updates, and the latest drivers.

I'm surprised no workarounds have shown up.

Vista is the workaround. That being said, you do want to max out the RAM and get a fast HDD or SSD.

[Neil]

Which open-source OS is best suited a T4x if my criteria is the least amount of tweaking and fixing required?

There are several, as long as they offer a non-PAE kernel, you should have no trouble finding something to your liking.

[atanasoff]

As for Office, I've purchased 2K10 PKC's for $40 locally, they're about $60-70 online.
Used 2K7 distributions vary, but seem to range from $50-100.

What is a PKC?

[rkawakami]

My guess is that it's this: http://office.microsoft.com/en-us/buy/p ... 50744.aspx

[elray]

Vista was also so annoying nearly every corp IT department and many (most?) thinkpad buyers refused it, some here going to the trouble of re-imaging with XP to avoid Vista.

Indeed, that was the case, but it is no longer. Vista works. Don't worry, no one has to know.

[ajkula66]

No Vista support for GPU in T40, so we're back to square one.

[atanasoff]

No Vista support for GPU in T40, so we're back to square one.

This one has an R51 backplane, if that matters.

[Neil]

@atanasoff...Intel or ATI graphics? Doesn't really matter, though, neither qualify as "Vista Ready".

[pianowizard]

No Vista support for GPU in T40, so we're back to square one.

Not exactly. The OP doesn't want to get Win 7 due to its high cost. Vista is much cheaper, partly because it's older and partly because "everyone" is dumping it.

[atanasoff]

@atanasoff...Intel or ATI graphics? Doesn't really matter, though, neither qualify as "Vista Ready".

The Win7 script from MS returned "OK but no Aero graphics". Which I take it to mean W7 would install, and since I have no need for cutesy graphics it would run as intended. Whether that means Vista would run properly I can't say for sure.
It has ATI Radeon x0000.

[pianowizard]

atanasoff, I was reminded of you when I came across this thread: http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=113248 . This ad says only "XP Pro" in the title, but if you read the entire post, you'll see that TuuS is selling Vista COAs "at the same low price" as his XP Pro COAs. I can't guarantee you'll like it -- I don't recall ever running Vista on such an old machine -- but the risk is super low considering the low cost.

[atanasoff]

atanasoff, I was reminded of you when I came across this thread: http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=113248 . This ad says only "XP Pro" in the title, but if you read the entire post, you'll see that TuuS is selling Vista COAs "at the same low price" as his XP Pro COAs. I can't guarantee you'll like it -- I don't recall ever running Vista on such an old machine -- but the risk is super low considering the low cost.

Thanks, that looks like a logical option.