T43 or T43P by GPU?

[thinkpadhole]

Hello all, I didn't find exactly all of this covered in other topics, so I decided to make a new one, please refer me to existing topics if necessary and I apoligize in advance.

I've had the idea of getting an T43/T43p, with max. resolution LCD because at this point what would would be point to get anything but the best, as an XP general internet and video usage/ and light gaming machine for some time now to replace my old T42, the only problem is that I don't quite know which one would be the better bet for this usage. I'd THINK the performance versions would be obviously better if there's an option between a normal one and p, but my uncertainity comes from the GPU; The T43 optimally has an Radeon X600 GPU with 128MB of video RAM (Notebookcheck.net states it has 256MB as max, shared memory?) with 400mhz core speed and 250mhz memory speed, but apparently machines carrying this GPU can be rare (especially 15.0" models), most one's I've found online has the X300, while the T43p has an Mobility FireGL V3200 card with pretty much the same specs since it's based on the X600, except it's meant for a totally different appliance than the X600, namely CAD and OGL applications, but 15" models with max. resolution are easier to find. My question is this; Does the FireGL card perform less optionally under gaming, video, internet and all other leisure use than the X600 since it's mostly meant for professional work and thus I'd reckon it also would be optimized more for those applications? If so, is it optimized only on driver level, or is it's hardware different too? If on driver level, would it be possible to install X600 drivers to work with the FireGL card and it would perform 100% exact as an X600? I don't think Omega Drivers work with FireGL cards, but what about other optimized drivers, Mobility Modder maybe? Other than the GPU, these two machines are pretty much identical by my information, so the GPU is pretty much the only deciding factor which one I'm going to get.

Thanks.

[RealBlackStuff]

The Mobility FireGL V3200 of the T43p IS the X600, with 128MB RAM.
They just call it differently sometimes.
15" UXGA (1600x1200) is the highest resolution available.
T43 and R52 series come with PATA drives.
The machines with ATI GPU can also be converted to SATA drives (see my signature).

However, there are other 4:3 options:
A very similar, but newer T60, also available with 15" UXGA, has more powerful everything, incl. standard SATA drives.
By turning them into a FrankenPad (using a T61 motherboard), you can even increase things again, and go as high as 8GB DDR2 RAM.
Check the T6x forum for FrankenPad posts.

[Saucey]

What kind of gaming you were thinking of?
I'm not sure if it'll handle anything more than emulating PS1 games. I haven't tried any games via XP on the T43p I have.

[ajkula66]

The T43 optimally has an Radeon X600 GPU with 128MB of video RAM (Notebookcheck.net states it has 256MB as max, shared memory?)

No. That information is wrong.

T43 has X300 with 64MB VRAM, and up to 128MB shared. X600 was never an option on these machines.

T43p sports V3200 - based on X600 - with 128MB VRAM and up to 256MB shared.

The only ThinkPad with a "proper" X600 GPU is Z60m, and not all of them have it.

I don't know what type of gaming you're thinking of, but these are *very* old platforms...

[Adda]

If you remove the shield form the V3200 GPU's it says X600 right on the core, the only difference between the two is the video BIOS.

T43p's isn't good for gaming though, it runs extremely hot without mods, the video driver haven't been updated since 2009, it doesn't support anything beyond DirectX 9, too old too slow.

It is possible to play games on these, but only older games (pre 2006), with very few exceptions.

[ajkula66]

If you remove the shield form the V3200 GPU's it says X600 right on the core, the only difference between the two is the video BIOS.

Indeed, but I'm fairly certain that you can't force a X600 VBIOS on a V3200 without consequences...

T43p's isn't good for gaming though, it runs extremely hot without mods, the video driver haven't been updated since 2009, it doesn't support anything beyond DirectX 9, too old too slow.

QFT.

[thinkpadhole]

Thanks for the fast replies guys!

snip

So the two GPU's are totally identical? Interesting. And yeah I know of the T6x-line and how it basically kicks the T4x-series' [censored], I have a plan of getting a T61p for Windows 7 laptop usage with the same specs that I'm looking a T43 with, namely max. display resolution, meaning a 15" machine, and best GPU. For a hard drive I'm going to try and bag a 7200rpm drive preinstalled on the machine, but I can just buy new ones if that doesn't work out, everything else is pretty much the same for me, 8GB of RAM is a little bit overdoing it IMO, 4GB which is the official max in T61P is fine (Yes I know it supports 8GB unofficially no problems) 2GB is also fine for the T43p.

snip

Really, T43 never came with an X600 GPU? Then the Thinkwiki just has it wrong, that's where I got the information (link) Makes sense really, since as I said I couldn't find a single T43 machine for sale online with a X600 GPU, just X300. Then I'm just probably going to scratch the T43 off the list entirely if the V3200 is just plain better anyway, thanks for the information, someone should fix the Thinkwiki page too.

snip

Thanks for again confirming that the V3200 is essentially the same as the X600, but if the video BIOS is different, that probably means that one cannot use X600 drivers with a V3200 like ajkula66 says? Then again I'm still unsure how different the two cards perform in multimedia usage, if someone could answer that it would be great


And as for everyone's gaming related posts, haha yeah, I'm WELL aware of the T4x series' limitations when it comes to gaming having been using my T42 for about 8 years now (I know, I know...) which has the worst GPU (M Radeon 7500) that doesn't support any shaders, DX7 and OGL 1.2 meaning I can run software driven light games like Fallout 1 & 2 and Planescape Torment, and some light hardware games like Quake 3 and Deus Ex + the aftermentioned PS1 emulation, basically everything beyond like 2001 just mostly runs poorly or doesn't run at all, games like Max Payne 2 and Half-Life 2 with medium to low settings are probably the absolute ceiling what I'm able to run while still maintaining an acceptable framerate on the T42, so that's the what I'll be looking to working with the T43 as well. I do NOT expect to run Crysis 3 and Battlefield 4 with a T43, no worries Besides all the last good PC games were made around the start of the 21nd century anyway

[ajkula66]

Really, T43 never came with an X600 GPU? Then the Thinkwiki just has it wrong, that's where I got the information (link) Makes sense really, since as I said I couldn't find a single T43 machine for sale online with a X600 GPU, just X300. Then I'm just probably going to scratch the T43 off the list entirely if the V3200 is just plain better anyway, thanks for the information, someone should fix the Thinkwiki page too.

Fixed...

[RealBlackStuff]

There are no T61p machines with 15" (4:3), only widescreen 15.4" (16:10). Their max: WUXGA.
If you want a 15" with 4GB or more, you need a FrankenPad T601 (15" T60 with a 14.1" T61 motherboard, which needs some hardware mods).
If interested, I can build those (do it all the time).

[Adda]

If you remove the shield form the V3200 GPU's it says X600 right on the core, the only difference between the two is the video BIOS.

Indeed, but I'm fairly certain that you can't force a X600 VBIOS on a V3200 without consequences...

You'd probably have to move a resistor on the chip assembly somewhere, it was like that with other Radeon GPU's at the time, but the chip is 100% the same, I no doubt about that at all.
And if you use a mobility modded Radeon driver, it will perform the same as an X600 too, assuming the clocks are the same.

How do I know? I modded a Radoen 9700 Pro to make it a FireGL, and modded a Radeon 9800SE to become a 9800 Pro, AND I modded a 9800 Pro to become a 9800XT.

[thinkpadhole]

Fixed...

Nice There's a whole bunch of other errors and inconsistencies vs. what Lenovo says in the wiki too, but I'm sure there's a different place for that.

There are no T61p machines with 15" (4:3), only widescreen 15.4" (16:10). Their max: WUXGA.
If you want a 15" with 4GB or more, you need a FrankenPad T601 (15" T60 with a 14.1" T61 motherboard, which needs some hardware mods).
If interested, I can build those (do it all the time).

Yeah that's what I meant, a 15.4" widescreen model, they seem pretty common from what I've looked up so I'm fairly certain I can bag one for a reasonable price.

You'd probably have to move a resistor on the chip assembly somewhere, it was like that with other Radeon GPU's at the time, but the chip is 100% the same, I no doubt about that at all.
And if you use a mobility modded Radeon driver, it will perform the same as an X600 too, assuming the clocks are the same.

How do I know? I modded a Radoen 9700 Pro to make it a FireGL, and modded a Radeon 9800SE to become a 9800 Pro, AND I modded a 9800 Pro to become a 9800XT.

The FireGL V3200 clocks are identical to the X600 according to Notebookcheck.net, so I guess it's promising one can just use Mobility Modder to force it into a X600, and I don't mind a little bit of soldering if it's necessary

[Adda]

The FireGL V3200 clocks are identical to the X600 according to Notebookcheck.net, so I guess it's promising one can just use Mobility Modder to force it into a X600, and I don't mind a little bit of soldering if it's necessary

The clocks don't matter, just use IBM_ECW

There would be no point in moving that resistor, all it would do (if it can even be done) is enable you to flash the card with a Radeon BIOS, which disables some functionality and prevents installation of FireGL drivers.

If use use the same hardware, at the same clocks, with the same drivers, it'll perform the same, regardless of BIOS (mostly, the BIOS affects video memory timings and so on).

The V3200 will still be called a V3200 if you install a mobility modded Radeon driver, but it still runs off a Radeon driver, so will behave like a Radeon.