Getting a ThinkPad. Please help!

[Crossword]

Hello everyone,

Have had a perusal through the forum, lots of information but I thought I'd make my own thread. Hope ye don't mind.

Basically I'm looking to buy a second laptop specifically for working from home (word processing and internet mainly) and am thinking of getting a ThinkPad. I had one many moons ago and liked it, and to be honest, my decision to get one now is as much about aesthetics as anything else, but I also very much value sturdiness in a laptop, and that is one of the ThinkPad's advertised qualities. First off, am I on the wrong track? Am I letting nostalgia get the better of me? And supposing this can be answered in the negative, which model should I go for?

To be honest, I'm not looking for a brick anymore - as far as I'm concerned slim is nice - but I am very suspect of the keyboard on the X1 carbon, although if this is not as bad as it looks I can get over it since I usually type on my usb mechanical keyboard. Aside from this I am looking at the X240 ot T440s. Again, I'm kind of confused as to the differences since they are mostly configurable to similar stats.

I actually don't care for a cd/dvd drive on this machine, and will want a solid state hard drive. i5 is more than enough although I may go to 8gb of ram. Screen should be good enough for a three people to watch a movie without reduced quality for those at the peripheries. Apart from that, I don't want to spend more money than I have to.

Any suggestions?

Thanks

[Cigarguy]

Nostalgia is good. However if you want, IMO, the "Thinkpad" experience then I'd look at a T420/T520 or older. Again, IMO, to much have changed since the Tx20 series for me to consider them to be truely Thinkpads. Lenovo is working hard to become more MACish. The key distincting and final straw for me was the change from the best, much beloved classic keyboard to chiclets beginning with the Tx30 series. In the Thinkpad world the T series (T440) is their standard workhorse machine, X series are smaller, ligher and slimer while their W series are workstation replacements.

If you really want to go with a great nostalgia machine that is still very much functional with Win 7, MS Office and Internet I'd look at the T60 or T61 series. One of and still my favourite machine is a T60 with the wonderful 15" Flexview screen, 4:3 screen format, classic keyboard, and terrific build qualty without the problems that plague the T43 and T61 series. T60 and T61 can be had for realatively cheap and are readily available.

Of the 16+ laptops that I have in various configuration, brand and sizes my favourite daily workhorse is a 14" T60. Whatever you get, a SSD is a must. More than any upgrade, a SSD will give you the biggest bang for buck and improvement in the general computing experience.

[Ibthink]

Aside from this I am looking at the X240 ot T440s. Again, I'm kind of confused as to the differences since they are mostly configurable to similar stats.

X240 is like a smaller, more compromised version of the T440s. To examine some differences:
- As I said, it is smaller and lighter
- Longer battery life
- Max. 8 GB of RAM vs. 12 GB with the T440s (both have one RAM slot, but the T440s has 4 GB soldered on the board). Also, that means, the X240 is compromised with Singe Channel RAM
- Depending on where you life, the X240 will only be available with a Touch FHD screen (here in Europe it is also available with the non-Touch FHD IPS screen), the T440s is available with a non-Touch screen anywhere in the world
- The T440s has a full-size keyboard, the X240 has smaller version
- T440s has 3 USB ports, X240 has only 2

In the end, I would say the T440s is better, if you don´t need a really really small device or the absolute best battery life, I would recommend the T440s. I would choose the T440s over the X240 any day again. Depends on you needs...

[Crossword]

Fascinating. I had not considered buying an older machine. But tell me, how realistic is this long term. I mean, I like to get as much out of my computers as possible (4-6 years). Will I still be running Windows 7 speedily and problem free on T420 by 2020? If you think that that is a possibility, and if its easily to replace the hard drive with an SSD, and if the price is right, and if these machines are not too chubby, then I am very interested in your suggestion.

Many thanks.

[Crossword]

In the end, I would say the T440s is better, if you don´t need a really really small device or the absolute best battery life, I would recommend the T440s. I would choose the T440s over the X240 any day again. Depends on you needs...

Hmm... three usb ports is definitely a bonus for me but I'm not going to go over 8gb of ram so that it is less important.

Thanks for the heads up. Appreciated.

[dr_st]

Will I still be running Windows 7 speedily and problem free on T420 by 2020?

Yes, for sure.

The most powerful CPU for the T440s/X240 is i7-4600U, which is actually weaker than the i7-2640M for T420/X220 and the i7-3520M for the T430/X230.

The i5 CPUs are also low voltage and weaker in comparison to the standard voltage i5 counterparts used in **20/30 series.

The **40 series are clearly a step back all across the board where performance is concerned, for the sake of thinner machines and longer battery life. One could argue that it's a good tradeoff as CPU/RAM have not been the limiting factors in several years. But it is something to consider.

[pianowizard]

I mean, I like to get as much out of my computers as possible (4-6 years). Will I still be running Windows 7 speedily and problem free on T420 by 2020?

Most certainly. The days of computer hardware becoming obsolete every 2 to 4 years are long gone. Many people still aren't aware of this and waste too much money buying computers that are way overkill for their needs. A reasonably specced T420 should still be running Windows 7 speedily when support for 7 ends in 2020. If you don't mind Windows 8 (which I love), this T420 would be useful through 2023. On the other hand, whether or not it will be "problem free" for at least 6 more years will depend partly on how you treat the computer.

[Takeda]

Will I still be running Windows 7 speedily and problem free on T420 by 2020?

Yes, for sure.

The most powerful CPU for the T440s/X240 is i7-4600U, which is actually weaker than the i7-2640M for T420/X220 and the i7-3520M for the T430/X230.

The i5 CPUs are also low voltage and weaker in comparison to the standard voltage i5 counterparts used in **20/30 series.

The **40 series are clearly a step back all across the board where performance is concerned, for the sake of thinner machines and longer battery life. One could argue that it's a good tradeoff as CPU/RAM have not been the limiting factors in several years. But it is something to consider.

I disagree, my W540 with the i7-4930MX CPU is MUCH, MUCH faster than my W520, also with an i7 CPU.

[dr_st]

OK, I should have limited my statement to the X240/T440/T440s.

[Crossword]

Excellent. If the price is right I may give this a shot. What is a good price for a very good condition i7 T420?

Many thanks guys.

[Ibthink]

If you get a T420, don´t be surprised about the display quality, T420 has maybe the worst displays of all ThinkPads of the last years.

[Crossword]

Urg. T60 is gorgeous. Need a cold shower.

Edit: Very hard to get excited about the new machines now. So much missing.

[emeraldgirl08]

Most certainly. The days of computer hardware becoming obsolete every 2 to 4 years are long gone. Many people still aren't aware of this and waste too much money buying computers that are way overkill for their needs.

^^^This X1000

[Cigarguy]

Urg. T60 is gorgeous. Need a cold shower.

Edit: Very hard to get excited about the new machines now. So much missing.

Something else to consider. Get a T60/T61 now for $100-$200ish (often less), upgrade to 3GB RAM and SSD. Then use and abuse it....after all it's cheap no need to stress about using and abusing it. Enjoy it. In 4-6 years time pick up a T420, T430, etc for $200ish and go through that cycle again.

This is feasible because software have long fallen behind hardware and is not growing at break neck speed. Unless you play the latest games or do intensive video editing you pay a lot in depreciation on a new machine. Let someone else do that.

[Crossword]

Going to follow all of your advice and get an older system. Trying to decide between the x220, T60/61, and T420. I love the tall screen of the T60, but am wondering if the others are a bit nicer size-wise for me, and of course a little bit more powerful. Getting any of these beauties for 150-200 Euro is a real bargin though. So glad I signed up here.

[bluefruit]

You can also consider Thinkpads with 16:10 displays as sort of a in-between: the X201, T410. However, you give up battery life and performance with Sandy Bridge CPUs in the *20 series Thinkpads, which, if I'm not wrong, quite a step up from the previous gen.

[dr_st]

I own both a T60 15" SXGA+ Flexview and an X220 IPS.

Each of these machines is nice in its own way, but has downsides as well.

The screen quality is amazing on both.

The screen size and resolution on the T60 is great, but the machine itself already shows its age and is not quite as snappy for everyday activities as it was at the time of it's release, which was almost 8 years ago.

With that said, it is still usable. So if you are worried about anything you buy now being usable in 7 years, you probably shouldn't.

Downsides of the T60 (performance aside) are: size, weight. It's a 2.6kg machine (and with the extended battery - 2.8kg) that feels heavy to lug around. The battery life is also nothing by today's standards. 2-3 hours with the 6-cell, 3-4 hours with the 9-cell.

The X220 is a fantastic little laptop. It's light (1.5kg with the 6cell battery, 1.65kg with the 9cell), has great performance, very good battery life (nearly double that of the T60 for a similar-sized battery), awesome expansion capabilities: 2 RAM slots taking up to 16G, built-in USB3 on the i7 model, an mSATA-capable slot which allows for 2 drives, two display outputs on the chassis (VGA + DisplayPort), a full-size 54mm ExpressCard slot, and it's compatible with all the series 3 docks, and with its own Ultrabase (which includes an ultrabay for an optical / extra battery / extra drive), and has a slice battery option (which attaches like the dock).

The single major downside - screen resolution is 1366x768. A major downgrade compared to the T60, and to what you can get with newer laptops (like the **40 series). It is just not enough for any kind of serious work.

Not that I would feel comfortable working with ultra-high resolutions on a 12.5" screen, but something like 1440x900 or even 1600x900 might have still been comfortable, while offering enough real estate for most applications.

The machines in between (61-*10 series) I liked far less. That is why I don't own any of them. Sub-par TN screens on all of them, complete lack of aesthetics on many of them, bad design choices here and there. However, mostly it's just the screens. If you are willing to put up with TN, or retrofit a different screen (usually not easy), then you have some interesting options, like the X201s WXGA+ 1440x900 - lightweight, fairly modern, high resolution, or the 15.4" 1920x1200 / 15.6" FHD 1920x1080 workstation series. Or even the unique monstrosities that are the W70x series.

Frankenpadding a high-end T61 into a 15" T60 chassis with a Flexview screen is another option, and not a difficult/expensive one.

A word about the new models (**40 series) - they certainly have advantages over previous generations. The availability of high-resolution high-quality screens across the entire lineup is a very welcome and overdue addition. They are also even lighter and offer even longer battery lives, and improved GPU performance. They look in some ways nicer than older Thinkpads. However the changes to the keyboard, and recently the trackpoint, make them, in my view, lose a good deal of the Thinkpad uniqueness. They may be very nice laptops, but they don't hold the same appeal for me compared to the other offerings, as Thinkpads once did.

[Crossword]

Thanks very much for all the info. Very helpful. To be honest, I'm pretty much sold on the X220. I'm not as tech-savy or 'businessy' as many of the posters here, but I'm guessing that whatever the screen resolution is it will surely suffice for reasonably long shifts of word processing at least (presuming that Lenovo are not totally stupid).

For the same reasons, I'd probably be happy enough with one of the newer machines also. I have my own mechanial keyboard so that is less of an issue, but what I'm really sold on right now is saving money. I have always tended to get expensive top end machines (I used to game a bit) and really like the idea now of stepping back a bit and getting something more sensibly priced. Plus, the buttons for the tracker-stick are essential for me - otherwise I would just get another brand altogether. And I like the IBM aesthetic, so that is a big plus. I'll swap in some SSD and improve the ram. I could do without the dvd drive at this stage, but no harm I guess.

Any last thoughts?

Thanks

[pianowizard]

I'm guessing that whatever the screen resolution is it will surely suffice for reasonably long shifts of word processing at least

A common misconception is that screen resolution affects only video- and photo-based applications. If you do a lot of word processing, 1366x768 is severely crippling, and the small screen makes things worse. Many forum members are holding onto their 4:3 T60's and T61's because these laptops' high vertical resolutions (1400x1050 and 1600x1200) allow many more lines of text to be displayed. 1366x768, which the X220 is limited to, is pathetic for word processing. 900 vertical pixels (as in 1600x900) should be your absolute minimum, and even that isn't great.

[Crossword]

Yeah. I'm thinking you're right. I easily spend 8 hours four days a week word processing so that is a shame. Thought I had found the perfect TP for me.

[ZaZ]

If you do a lot of word processing, 1366x768 is severely crippling, and the small screen makes things worse.

Most Office programs I've come across have the ability to make text smaller if you want to see more of the page. I've edited text documents on my X220 and while I'd agree that more resolution would be useful, I don't know that I'd call it crippling. The other issue being the more you crank up the resolution on a 12.5" screen, the harder said text is to read.

I reviewed the first gen X1 Carbon. It was the best ultrabook keyboard I've used, though to quite as good as more traditional ThinkPads, as it's too thin to allow for sufficient key depth.

[Crossword]

Just an update. Ordered an i7 x220. Do the vast majority of my work from home so if the screen is too small I guess I'll plug it into an external monitor. I'll let ye know how I get on. Thanks everyone for the advice.

[emeraldgirl08]

If you can afford it or perhaps find one for a good price then get a dock as well. It is nice to be able to come home and put your X-series ThinkPad on a dock for outputting to a monitor. When you are ready to leave simply eject your X220 from the dock and you are ready to go. No disconnecting cables etc. Very convenient!

[pianowizard]

Most Office programs I've come across have the ability to make text smaller if you want to see more of the page.

This helps, but not very much, because as the magnification factor drops below ~70%, the number of pixels available to construct each character becomes too low and text becomes too jagged to read.

I've edited text documents on my X220 and while I'd agree that more resolution would be useful, I don't know that I'd call it crippling.

I didn't know 1024x768 was crippling until I started using higher resolutions. Also, how much resolution one needs depends on the complexity of what one does. I often have to view two or more documents side by side, and/or split a document into an upper half and a lower half to view two sections of the same document at once. As I've always said, just because someone needs their computer only for word processing or web browsing doesn't necessarily mean a low-specced computer would suffice. I'm glad that your X220 meets your needs, but it does not meet everyone else's needs.

The other issue being the more you crank up the resolution on a 12.5" screen, the harder said text is to read.

Get a bigger screen. There's a good reason why the most popular screen size for ultraportable laptops is 13.3": It's just large enough so that 1600x900 (and, for some people, even 1920x1080) is still easy to handle, while it's still small enough to be easy to carry around. With an increasing number of 13.3" laptops weighing less than 3 lbs (e.g. my Sony Pro13 is only 2.34 lbs), I don't see why anyone would still want to get 12.5" laptops. A 3-lb 12.5" laptop is not any more portable than a 3-lb 13.3" laptop, since both require carrying cases anyway. A reduction in screen size increases mobility only when the screen is smaller than ~9", which enables it to fit in a pants pocket.

[Crossword]

Just checked the resolution on my regular Acer laptop with its 13.3 X 8 inch screen. It is 1366 X 768 and can't go any higher. I am perfectly happy with that resolution I think.

[Crossword]

If you can afford it or perhaps find one for a good price then get a dock as well. It is nice to be able to come home and put your X-series ThinkPad on a dock for outputting to a monitor. When you are ready to leave simply eject your X220 from the dock and you are ready to go. No disconnecting cables etc. Very convenient!

Can you leave the laptop closed and still use it? Just wondering if the laptop screen would kind of get in the way of the main screen.

[dr_st]

Can you leave the laptop closed and still use it?

Sure.

[rkawakami]

As long as you tell the operating system that you want to "do nothing" when the lid is closed. Otherwise, a power setting might cause the laptop to suspend or hibernate when the lid is closed.

[Medessec]

Most of the time the settings I adopt with my laptop is:

On Battery: Power Button- Shutoff, Sleep Button- Sleep, Close lid- Sleep
Plugged In: Power Button- Shutoff, Sleep Button- Sleep, Close lid- Do Nothing

This way, if the laptop's on my desk or plugged in, all I have to do is unplug it, then close the lid, then plug it back in to let it charge while sleeping. On the flipside, if I want to carry a laptop from one location to another without having it sleep, I can leave it plugged in, close the lid, then unplug it and transport the laptop and charger separately.

The power button on most laptops is usually positioned in a way that's quite hard to press by accident, and the power button on my Clevo has to be held down for a second to register- not just with cold starts, but even in Windows. So I usually always set it to be a power-down quick button, regardless of the power state.

[pianowizard]

Just checked the resolution on my regular Acer laptop with its 13.3 X 8 inch screen. It is 1366 X 768 and can't go any higher. I am perfectly happy with that resolution I think.

Lucky you! Many of us who have been exposed to higher resolutions cannot go back to 720p resolutions, even though we used to be "perfectly happy" with them.