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T43 Cooling mods

T40/T41/T42/T43 Series
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geka3250
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T43 Cooling mods

#1 Post by geka3250 » Sat May 10, 2014 4:31 pm

Hi people!
Hot summer is coming so I decided to do some ghetto mods with Thinkpad T43.
Took some copper, plastic insulator, Russian glue "Moment"(due to its high temperature resistance and flexibility) and disassembled some DVD-RW drives and other hardware trash to get thermal stripes and small rubbers.
1st was North Bridge - opened crystal without any cooling seems hot at load.
Took insulator, cutted out hole for crystal and applied it to NB to prevent short circuit(some capacitors on it). Placed thermal stipe on crystal. At one diagonal applied glue between NB and plastic insulator, at other between insulator and copper plate - so plastic insulator works also like clamp. After these placed rubber part from DVD-RW to make some pressure by trackpoint circuit on keyboard. Final view:
Image
2nd was South Bridge - known SB problem in T43 series :(
I measured free space there and got this:
Image
So copper plate have been done.
Other way was to place big thermal stripe(can be found in PMMX/PII CPUs from old thinkpads), also placed white plastic peices at each corner to apply glue and fix plate.
During experiments I found that clockgen is very hot to touch:
Image
So put thermal stripe and piece of insulator on it too.
Glued copper plate, placed rubber piece for better pressure. Final view:
Image
Image
Its too bad NB and SB of i915 chipset have no thermal diode, so cant say difference...
But with external thermocouple I got 55C and 53C on copper plates of NB and SB respectively while playing youtube fullscreen using Wi-Fi.
PCI sensor seems not near SB because no difference in temp - 47...52C. But touchpad became hotter - better heat dissipation?
Thank you for your attention! :)
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Re: T43 Cooling mods

#2 Post by dr_st » Sat May 10, 2014 11:51 pm

Interesting! Thanks for sharing. :D
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Re: T43 Cooling mods

#3 Post by 600X » Sun May 11, 2014 3:33 am

I've thought of doing something similar on my T43, but I didn't because simply putting a copper plate on top of a part doesn't solve the heat problem, it simply delays it. Once the thermal capacity of the copper plate is reached, you are basically back to square one. The trick is to direct the heat away from chip. Using your method, you are actually making things worse because the the copper plate stores additional heat on top of the chip which just adds to the heat of the chip itself. Your hotter touchpad is prove of that. You chip is now hotter than it was before.

If you really want to make a difference, you will have to attach heat pipes to the copper plates which should lead to a fan so the heat can be dissipated. An alternative would be directing the heat to something with an extremely high thermal capacity, for example the Ultrabay cage.

I know someone over at the German Forum who did it just that way. I'll ask him for a pic to post it here.
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Re: T43 Cooling mods

#4 Post by geka3250 » Sun May 11, 2014 4:13 am

Aurora wrote:Using your method, you are actually making things worse because the the copper plate stores additional heat on top of the chip which just adds to the heat of the chip itself. Your hotter touchpad is prove of that. You chip is now hotter than it was before.
I dont think so, because heat dissipation square increased. Bigger surface - more heat dissipated, hotter body surfaces. Yes, circuit surfaces near NB and SB became hotter, but crystals became less hot.
Without plates NB and SB on load makes me OUCH when touching them. With plates possible to touch them.
Heat pipes? Yea, great idea, but problem is that I cant find them...
Increasing plate square to PCMCIA and Ultrabay is bad idea, because plate heating without pipes decreasing for such distance. Also steel cages dissipating heat very bad
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Re: T43 Cooling mods

#5 Post by 600X » Sun May 11, 2014 4:38 am

geka3250 wrote:
Aurora wrote:Using your method, you are actually making things worse because the the copper plate stores additional heat on top of the chip which just adds to the heat of the chip itself. Your hotter touchpad is prove of that. You chip is now hotter than it was before.
I dont think so, because heat dissipation square increased. Bigger surface - more heat dissipated, hotter body surfaces. Yes, circuit surfaces near NB and SB became hotter, but crystals became less hot.
Without plates NB and SB on load makes me OUCH when touching them. With plates possible to touch them.
Heat pipes? Yea, great idea, but problem is that I cant find them...
Increasing plate square to PCMCIA and Ultrabay is bad idea, because plate heating without pipes decreasing for such distance. Also steel cages dissipating heat very bad
You will need to make your own heat pipes. I know a guy who works with fans and heat sinks and even designs them, he explained to me that a copper plate will not do you any good without a heat pipe and fan.

The Ultrabay cage is aluminum, not steel. The guy who directed his heat pipes there had great results. Like I said, I asked him for a pic and I'll post it here.
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Re: T43 Cooling mods

#6 Post by 600X » Sun May 11, 2014 3:54 pm

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Re: T43 Cooling mods

#7 Post by geka3250 » Mon May 12, 2014 12:12 am

Aurora,
Thanx! I think it effective enough. But it looks so horrible :D
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Re: T43 Cooling mods

#8 Post by Adda » Tue May 13, 2014 5:27 pm

A fix for the problem of hot GPU's in T4x series:

1. open the ThinkPad and remove the cooler.

2. remove pink pad and black goo from cooler.

3. remove heatshield from GPU using dental floss, just cut it off as you would a slice cheese, clean off old thermal compound.

4. cut out a piece of aluminum or copper same size as the GPU core.

5. file or sand the metal piece so that it has the right thickness to even out the height difference between GPU and video memory.

6. bend the cooler so that the GPU pad fits the lower profile of the video chip, while keeping good contact with the CPU.

7. apply cooler paste to CPU, GPU and video memory.

8. put the metal piece on the GPU and put cooler paste on top of it.

9. mount the cooler and enjoy much lower temps then would have otherwise been possible.

And finally a picture of the end result:
http://cdn.head-fi.org/2/26/26cb88f7_AUT_6501.jpeg

And here and explanation of the root cause of the heat problem (with T43p as an example):
http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=107720

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Re: T43 Cooling mods

#9 Post by geka3250 » Wed May 14, 2014 8:33 am

Adda,
It seems not actual for T43 with Mobility X300 :) I removed IHS by piece of blade(heh it was hard for me):
Image
X300 have square for better thermal contact:
Image
So just changed thermal paste to new at all
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Re: T43 Cooling mods

#10 Post by 600X » Wed May 14, 2014 9:01 am

My T43 doesn't have an ATI so I don't have these problems. :lol:
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Re: T43 Cooling mods

#11 Post by ajkula66 » Wed May 14, 2014 9:04 am

Aurora wrote:My T43 doesn't have an ATI so I don't have these problems. :lol:
You also can't run a UXGA panel off of it... :mrgreen:
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Re: T43 Cooling mods

#12 Post by Adda » Wed May 14, 2014 9:40 am

geka3250 wrote:Adda,
It seems not actual for T43 with Mobility X300 :) I removed IHS by piece of blade(heh it was hard for me):
Image
X300 have square for better thermal contact:
Image
So just changed thermal paste to new at all
Excellent, I'm very glad to see more adventurous users turn up on this forum!

The X300 doesn't run too hot to begin with, but I'm sure replacing the paste under the shield will make an improvement.
You may be the first to confirm the shield fits properly on the X300, good job!

Did you compare temps before and after replacing the paste?

The mod I did seems to apply to X600, FGL T2 and V3200.
However, the heatshield does fit on late generation V3200's, but removing the shield and modding the cooler does lower temps a LOT anyway.

I landed on a max temp of 71C under extreme load for GPU and CPU in my T43p with PM770@1.148v and V3200@500/300MHz, using a very carefully fitted copper spacer on the GPU and AS5.
My cooler is heavily modded though, it is a T43p long cooler with a quiet fan, taken form the T43 long cooler for models with intel video, so a standard T43p cooler should provide even lower temps.

Here is what those chips look like without the shield:
http://www.mobilemag.com/wp-content/upl ... gefile.jpg

the R9600 could be one way or the other, someone will have to take a look, the chip looks like this without the shield:
http://img.tomshardware.com/us/2003/03/ ... b-9600.jpg

Edit: the shield on V3200 also has the square you mention, but it's not "tall" enough to make contact with the GPU on older chips.

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Re: T43 Cooling mods

#13 Post by geka3250 » Wed May 14, 2014 9:54 am

Adda wrote: Did you compare temps before and after replacing the paste?
1 hour of Flatout 2 gaming - 55C CPU(1.86GHz, RMClock downvoltaged to 1.148V), 68C GPU, ambient 23C. As I remember had same 68 at GPU before. But I applied USSR thermal paste КПТ-8 on GPU crystal :lol: I'll try to use some more effective later and hope it helps
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Re: T43 Cooling mods

#14 Post by Adda » Wed May 14, 2014 10:10 am

geka3250 wrote: 1 hour of Flatout 2 gaming - 55C CPU(1.86GHz, RMClock downvoltaged to 1.148V), 68C GPU, ambient 23C. As I remember had same 68 at GPU before. But I applied USSR thermal paste КПТ-8 on GPU crystal :lol: I'll try to use some more effective later and hope it helps
You should give IBM_ECW a try, when using RMClock, both RMClock and windows controls the core voltage, so when the CPU switches frequency, it will first run at default vcore, but then RMClock will quickly lower the vcore to your custom value.

IBM_ECW circumvents windows control over the CPU completely, and will ONLY use the vcore values you have set, IBM_ECW can also control ATi PowerPlay profiles and clocks, and fan control AND fancy hotkey integration.
All of this and more in a tiny tiny app that uses very little memory.

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Re: T43 Cooling mods

#15 Post by geka3250 » Wed May 14, 2014 10:30 am

Adda,
Thanks, but RMClock is good enough for me :)
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Re: T43 Cooling mods

#16 Post by 600X » Fri May 16, 2014 4:09 pm

ajkula66 wrote:
Aurora wrote:My T43 doesn't have an ATI so I don't have these problems. :lol:
You also can't run a UXGA panel off of it... :mrgreen:
Since it's a 14" model it I wouldn't be able to anyway. Officially it only supports XGA though inofficially the 14" Intel model also supports SXGA+ when used with the 15" Display cable. This mod is yet to be done, it's just theoretical. But considering the, at best, mediocre quality of the 14" SXGA+ screen, I wouldn't say it's worth the effort. Perhaps I should look out for a 15" model. I'm really loving my T61 with FlexView.

I might pick up the cooling mod again then, the Southbridge does get awfully hot.
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Re: T43 Cooling mods

#17 Post by ajkula66 » Fri May 16, 2014 4:27 pm

Aurora wrote: Officially it only supports XGA though inofficially the 14" Intel model also supports SXGA+ when used with the 15" Display cable. This mod is yet to be done, it's just theoretical. But considering the, at best, mediocre quality of the 14" SXGA+ screen, I wouldn't say it's worth the effort. Perhaps I should look out for a 15" model. I'm really loving my T61 with FlexView.

I might pick up the cooling mod again then, the Southbridge does get awfully hot.
Off topic:

Intel-based T43 will run a 15" SXGA+ with an appropriate cable. It will not run a 14" SXGA+ with any cable, nor will it run UXGA.

All tested in my little shop of horrors... :mrgreen:
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Re: T43 Cooling mods

#18 Post by 600X » Sat May 17, 2014 2:04 pm

ajkula66 wrote:
Aurora wrote: Officially it only supports XGA though inofficially the 14" Intel model also supports SXGA+ when used with the 15" Display cable. This mod is yet to be done, it's just theoretical. But considering the, at best, mediocre quality of the 14" SXGA+ screen, I wouldn't say it's worth the effort. Perhaps I should look out for a 15" model. I'm really loving my T61 with FlexView.

I might pick up the cooling mod again then, the Southbridge does get awfully hot.
Off topic:

Intel-based T43 will run a 15" SXGA+ with an appropriate cable. It will not run a 14" SXGA+ with any cable, nor will it run UXGA.

All tested in my little shop of horrors... :mrgreen:
More off topic:

There was a discussion about this at the German ThinkPad forum. We were looking for a workaround to get 14" SXGA+'s running on Intel based T43's. Someone had success with a 15" R50 cable. I thought it would work with a 15" T43 cable as well but if you say it doesn't then thanks for clarifying that.

This would be the thread in question: http://thinkpad-forum.de/threads/143351 ... e-Streifen

Feel free to try it out yourself. :mrgreen:
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Re: T43 Cooling mods

#19 Post by ajkula66 » Sat May 17, 2014 2:47 pm

Aurora wrote:
More off topic:

There was a discussion about this at the German ThinkPad forum. We were looking for a workaround to get 14" SXGA+'s running on Intel based T43's. Someone had success with a 15" R50 cable. I thought it would work with a 15" T43 cable as well but if you say it doesn't then thanks for clarifying that.

This would be the thread in question: http://thinkpad-forum.de/threads/143351 ... e-Streifen

Feel free to try it out yourself. :mrgreen:
Interesting.

All I ever got with a 15" SXGA+ cable on a 14" SXGA+ panel was backlight with no picture. Haven't tried using cables of R5x variety.

As for trying it out myself...I leave that to you younger folk...my days of playing with T4x machines are mostly done. Keeping my existing units alive is enough of a chore... 8)
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RIP: T43pSF

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Re: T43 Cooling mods

#20 Post by 600X » Sun May 18, 2014 10:39 am

So since I am selling my T43 anyway I thought I'd give it a shot. This is what came out:

Image

I basically severed the GPU copper plate from a T60 heat sink and put some thermal pads on the Southbridge and clock generator chip. The screw that holds the keyboard goes through the copper plate thus holding it in place. I had to cut the keyboard screw mount into 2 pieces though. Additionally, the copper plate is being pushed down by an aluminum bracket which is screwed to the base. The copper plate is also hooked between the Northbridge cooling plate which in turn is part of the heat sink and thus screwed to the base. So the whole thing is pretty stable.

Results are OK, though I don't really feel much of a difference. What we really need is a second fan in that area.
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Re: T43 Cooling mods

#21 Post by Adda » Sun May 18, 2014 2:30 pm

Maybe the solution is to use a expresscard wireless NIC, and replace the touchpad with a mesh with a fan on the underside.

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Re: T43 Cooling mods

#22 Post by geka3250 » Sun May 18, 2014 3:14 pm

Adda wrote:Maybe the solution is to use a expresscard wireless NIC, and replace the touchpad with a mesh with a fan on the underside.
I turned "Power Control" of default 2200BG to "Minimal". It gives minus 3C at PCI, touchpad became almost cool
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Re: T43 Cooling mods

#23 Post by Adda » Sun May 18, 2014 3:24 pm

geka3250 wrote: I turned "Power Control" of default 2200BG to "Minimal". It gives minus 3C at PCI, touchpad became almost cool
That does help, when the wireless card is idleing.
But it also causes DPC latency spikes, my ThinkPads have to be able to stream audio through ASIO, so I disable most kinds of power management.

My solution so far is to undervolt the GPU, that keeps the PCI sensor in the 47-51C range.

When running 3D graphics, I limit the combined power consumption of the GPU and CPU to keep the PCI sensor below 51C.
So either the GPU is running at max speed, with the CPU limited to 1.2GHz, or the CPU is at max speed, but the GPU undervolted and overclocked (fan speed 64).

Works well enough.

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Re: T43 Cooling mods

#24 Post by geka3250 » Mon May 19, 2014 5:28 pm

Replaced X300 IHS thermal paste from Soviet КПТ-8 to Noctua NT-H1. Got minus 1...2C, now max GPU temp is 67C. So I can say its not reasonable to remove X300 IHS and replace stock paste to new one
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Re: T43 Cooling mods

#25 Post by Adda » Tue May 20, 2014 7:14 am

That is quite surprising, you must still be using the black goo + pink thermal pad?

If so, then that must be the limiting factor (by now, I tend to forget it was even there to begin with).

Removing that, requires refitting (bending) of the cooler though.

I only tried using the V3200 with the heat shield and better paste briefly, but at that point, I had already removed the pad + goo.
It was at that time I found out just how big a gap goo and pink pad fills out (about a millimeter).
The pad has to be able to mold it self to fit, as there are at least two different GPU thicknesses in the T43/p series, but only one cooler (what a mess).

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Re: T43 Cooling mods

#26 Post by geka3250 » Tue May 20, 2014 8:17 am

Adda wrote:That is quite surprising, you must still be using the black goo + pink thermal pad?
Yea, stock pink pad. Temps are good enough, so Im finishing these ghetto mods
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Re: T43 Cooling mods

#27 Post by Adda » Tue May 20, 2014 9:50 am

I agree, your temps are fine.

Bending the cooler is quite a risky operation anyway, and very time consuming.

ThinkPad A30
Pentium III-M 933MHz
Crucial 2x256MB 133MHz CL2
Mobility Radeon 16MB
15" UXGA FlexView
Zheino Classic A 32GB
Samsung SpinPoint M5S 160GB
NEC DVD+-RW ND-6650A
Broadcom MiniPCI BCM43222 802.11n Dual Band
AKE BC168 USB 2.0
26P8287 203 "Malaysia"
46L4697
02K6898
02K6753

geka3250
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Location: Ukraine
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Re: T43 Cooling mods

#28 Post by geka3250 » Sat Dec 20, 2014 4:33 pm

Hi guys!
I want to share my new cooling mod :)
Image
Copper plate for NB, SB, Clockgen, GPU. Removed GPU pink pad to fit copper plate and used thermal paste on both sides. NB, SB, Clockgen on thermal pads.
Image
Some bending and here is final view!
Image
Temps of 1 hour intensive gaming.
340CSE | 380XD | 770 | 770X | 770Z | 390E | 600E | 600X | T23 | X30 | T30 | T41p | T43 | T60p | X200t

malch
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Re: T43 Cooling mods

#29 Post by malch » Sat Dec 20, 2014 9:43 pm

geka3250, there is this: http://www.thinkpads.com/forum/viewtopi ... 2&t=105829
Over two years and still running cool.
Conseil des pharmaciens www.viagrasansordonnancefr.com France sans maladie

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