Linux distro for legacy units. 600, 770 and T23

[FluffyBunny]

Hi there
I'm new here, but use Linux on both my 600E and T23. The 600E uses AntiX-MX. It was kind of slow, at first, but I was able to upgrade the RAM so it now has 544MB...it doesn't fly, but it's usable for browsing the 'net...as long as I don't open more than three tabs in Iceweasel. (lol) And audio does work...although it's a bit of a pain to get it going.

The T23 uses LXLE. (Typing from it right now.) It's quite a nice little disro that does pretty well on old(er) hardware. I had tried it on the 600E and although it worked, it was way too slow.

I might try CrunchBang at some point, but so far I'm content with both distros on these older machines. (Actually, all my Thinkpads run some sort of Linux distro)

[Norway Pad]

And audio does work...although it's a bit of a pain to get it going.

Nice to hear more people's experiences.

May I ask if there is a special trick or procedure you used to get the audio going? I have not really missed the audio on the 600, but I have done quite a lot of reading about it, and during the winter I will try to look into it. Did you go the route with a DOS partition on your drive, or did you manage it through configuration in the Linux install?

[Sudevan]

For me, with the T23s I have, both Crunchbang and Zorin 5.6 Lite do audio quite well, right from install without any special setup or trick. I have been able to get Youtube clips to play very well with Zorin, and serviceably well with some stutter using Crunchbang. I can't remember whether I ever tested audio with the 600 machines (with Crunchbang), but I'll test it out the next time I use them -- busy with a few other projects at the moment! I should imagine that sound would work, but not all that well, with a lot of stutter and missing frames, with Youtube, because of difficulties with updating flash players, codecs, etc.

Sudevan

[FluffyBunny]

May I ask if there is a special trick or procedure you used to get the audio going? I have not really missed the audio on the 600, but I have done quite a lot of reading about it, and during the winter I will try to look into it. Did you go the route with a DOS partition on your drive, or did you manage it through configuration in the Linux install?

All Linux, AntiX MX-14. No DOS, no, Windows.

First, fastboot in the BIOS has to be turned off. Next, some of the modules have to be blacklisted.

In the terminal, create a new document:
sudo leafpad /etc/modprobe.d/blacklist.conf

Once the document opens, enter:
blacklist snd-cs46xx
blacklist cs-46xx

Save & close.
Next, in the terminal open the grub file:
sudo leafpad /etc/default/grub

There will be a line that says:
GRUB_CMDLINE_LINUX=""

It's probably empty.
change it so it says:
GRUB_CMDLINE_LINUX="pci=nacpi acpi=force"
Save & close

Next, in the terminal update grub:
sudo update-grub

Reboot

After I did that, I opened the terminal, again, and ran:
alsamixer

Look for PCM and make sure it's not muted. If you see 'MM' in the fist rectangle towards the bottom, just click the letter M on the keyboard, and turn up the volume.

That worked for me.

Suspend should also work. Resuming is just a tad of a pain. There are two ways to get back to a working desktop:
1. When it wakes up, the screen will begin to turn white. Wait a bit until most of of the screen is white, then click CTRL+ALT+F1. That should make the screen turn a light grey. Then, click CTRL+ALT+F7. That brings up a working desktop. One minor problem, then, if you need to drop into command mode, you won't be able to do so.
2. When it wakes up, the screen will begin to turn white. Just walk away for a bit, maybe 5 minutes or so, and the screen will come back on its own. I discovered this by accident today. I flipped open the lid of the 600E, walked away to make coffee, promptly forgot about the computer, and when I remembered, I noticed the screen had come back all on its own.

[Norway Pad]

For me, with the T23s I have, both Crunchbang and Zorin 5.6 Lite do audio quite well, right from install without any special setup or trick.

Audio on the newer ones probably work, but here are problems with the audio on the 600 (And probably other Thinkpads from that era) due to the fact the Plug&Play works in a non standard way on these machines. Meaning a way that Linux can't deal with. So when Linux tries to set the components up, it just leaves the CS4237B sound chip disabled. The extensive way around it is to have a DOS partition with the Thinkpad DOS Configuration utility on the hard drive. A lot of steps to make this work, including doing the Antix install over again, as the DOS partition needs to be made first. So if there's a way to make it work just by configuring Linux, I'll try that first.

Fluffy Bunny: Thanks for the input. I tried the steps, but still no sound. Nothing related to Alsa or Alsamixer will run, btw. Even after hours of removing and reinstalling Alsa components, I can't get them to run. So leaving this issue for today.

[FluffyBunny]

Maybe it was just a fluke that I got it to work

Maybe there are other differences between a 600 and a 600E? Or could be some differences between AntiX and AntiX MX-14 (which is what I'm using)?

[rkawakami]

Per the tabook from those days... 600 has Cirrus Logic CS4237B chip, while the 600E has paired Cirrus Logic chips CS4239 (ISA) and CS4610 (PCI). According to ThinkWiki, CS4610 is not going to work.

ref: http://www.thinkwiki.org/wiki/CS4237
ref: http://www.thinkwiki.org/wiki/CS4239
ref: http://www.thinkwiki.org/wiki/CS4610

[Norway Pad]

I didn't consider that there might be a difference between the 600 and the 600E. There is, and I guess that leaves the settings "blacklist snd-cs46xx blacklist cs-46xx" useless for me, at that refers to another chip than the one I have.

According to every source, the links above included, getting the sound going on the 600 should be achievable. But seeing how much time I spend trying to interpret and understand the info I find, I see that I could be spending days and days working with this. So I might have to consider if it's worth the time and effort to have the sound working.

If I chose to really put effort into this, with a new install, etc, I will start a new thread so the process can be documented for future reference.

[Norway Pad]

Ok, one last attempt here before I call it a day.

Fluffy Bunny made me create a file in /etc/modprobe.d, with the content.

Code: Select all

blacklist snd-cs46xx
blacklist cs-46xx

I assume this is a file that is read during boot(?), and I also got the impression that the filename doesn't matter(?)

Can the content be changed to the following code:

Code: Select all

blacklist snd-cs4232
blacklist snd-wavefront
options snd-cs4236 isapnp=0 port=0x0530 cport=0x0538 mpu_port=-1  \
                        fm_port=0x0388 sb_port=0x0220 irq=5 mpu_irq=-1 \
                        dma1=1 dma2=0

I have now found two sources that claims this specific code listed above can be a fix, if the PnP setup by coincidence gives the audio chip these default values.

ThinkWiki's suggestion is slightly different:

This sound chip is supported by the snd-cs4236 kernel module. Use the following options line when loading this module:"

Code: Select all

options snd-cs4236 index=0 port=0x530 cport=0x538 isapnp=0 dma1=1 dma2=0 irq=5

But I know too little about this to know for sure is this can work. Is this is the correct place to put this options-code or can this have some unexpected results?

Would it also be wise to change the /etc/default/grub file back to the way it was? (GRUB_CMDLINE_LINUX="") and update it by running the update command?

Code: Select all

sudo update-grub

Any input appreciated, at least advices on whether these are "safe" changes. If no harm is done, I have at least done what I can at this point. I don't feel like blowing my install quite yet, at it's set up like I want it to.

[Norway Pad]

Quick status: Above changes didn't do anything. Nothing lost and nothing gained. So a total reinstall with a DOS partition seems to be the cure. I might try on the HDD that goes into the 560Z first, as both the 600 and the 560Z seem to have the CS4237B soundchip.

[Sudevan]

Just so I understand this, Bjorn: You'll do a total reinstall of a Windows OS, with a DOS partition? That is, Win 95 or Win 98?

Sudevan

[Norway Pad]

Hi

No, I will continue using Linux Antix, but the goal is to have audio working. And in order to achieve this, the only fix seems to be to put a DOS partition on the drive with the so called Thinkpad Configuration Utility for DOS (PS2.EXE), and use this program to set the IRQs and DMA (If need) so Linux can use them. So Antix will be reinstalled, but with this DOS partition on the "bottom". I am doing some reading on this now, but not sure about all the details here quite yet.

[Sudevan]

Thanks, I think I understand what you are trying to do. I'll be interested in hearing about the details, once you get the sound working. Best of luck!

Sudevan

[Norway Pad]

A quick status on this subject: The DOS partition is in installed, Linux is installed on top, and all instructions found here are followed. But still no sound. So I have come to the conclusion that getting sound working on the 600 is probably not doable unless you are a real Linux expert or have lots of time to spend.

I am by no means disappointed, as this process has taught me a lot. I have now installed Antix so many times that I now know how to configure and set it up good. One of the boot options in the above link made the laptop refuse to shut down on it's own. I guessed what it was, found the file, edited it, and made it work. That's progress from having no clue about Linux.

Somehow I start to suspect that no drivers for the sound is loaded no matter what I do. The reason is a message line that flies by when Linux boots up:

Code: Select all

piix4_smbus 0000:00:07.3: IBM system detected; this module may corrupt your serial eeprom! Refusing to load module!

I realized after a while that at the exact moment that this line pops up, I hear a blip of static in the speakers. So I am assuming there is something here that interacts with the sound chip. I have done some searching on it, and even tried one of the suggested fixes, but to no prevail. For the cases where this error prevents the laptop from booting up, there are fixes, but no distinct ones specifically for sound. A user on a forum even wrote this as a reply to this problem:

..there's nothing to fix in your case, the i2c-piix4 driver refuses to load on old Thinkpad laptops on purpose, because it's useless and dangerous there.

So unless someone has any brand new and revolutionary input on this, I will continue to enjoy the 600 and 560Z with no sound. Which really isn't a big deal, after all. They are after all old guys.

[Sudevan]

Hullo Bjorn,

Sorry to hear that the audio did not come through, after all the work. But you are right: You did learn a whole lot from the experience and knowledge is always useful.

Is it possible to approach this from the hardware end? Is there a sound chip of some sort that can be placed/replaced on a 600 series machine? Perhaps taken from a later machine, like a T series model, where the audio is known to work with Linux distros? I'm just wondering out loud, trying to think of a solution. My suggestion is based on the general versatility of Thinkpad hardware components.

Best,

Sudevan

[Norway Pad]

Hi

At this point I'm a little confused as to what is the exact reason for the problem. At first we thought it was IBM's way to handle PnP that caused this, and that the use of PS2.exe from the DOS partition for specifying the sound chip at IRQ5 would solve it. And in addition to this, also blacklist some drivers, to make sure the correct one is loaded. But now it seems like there is some basic incompatibility between Linux and the sound chip that makes Linux not deal with the sound chip at all. At least with Antix, that is. So I am not sure which of this is the root cause, or if it's a combination.

Anyway, the sound chip is most likely soldered on the mainboard, which makes me assume that a physical replacement would be close to impossible. If the BIOS operation is the reason for the problem, a reconfigured BIOS could maybe help, but I don't know if anyone would really spend time trying to figure this out on an old machine. Had this been back in the days, and a solution had been vital in order to be able to use a 600, I guess a solution would have come up. But not now..

I know you can get sound cards for PCMCIA, with 3.5mm ports, but I have never tried anything like that. I might buy one and try just for fun. I could also try another distro, but as long as it's only trial and error based, I chose to not spend more time on this now.

But please keep this post open, and feel free to post and bring it back up if a solution should ever come up.