T61 mobo alternatives?

[Theokretes]

Hi folks,

I recently got a free T61 6460-7EU, already boosted to 4GB of RAM. I really didn't want to see the poor thing be sent off to the recycling since it's in good condition and nothing is wrong with it. Heck I even rescued a bunch of X201s that worked fine from the chewer, but as I'm not interested in those I gave them away to some friends. There's a few aspects about the T6x series that I prefer over later thinkpads; although Lenovo did a pretty good job on the T440 in my opinion.

After reading about the infamous nvidia 140M issues, I'm a bit worried the GPU may fail after awhile. This one is a G68 A02 if I recall.

Any ideas if the intel X3100 mobos are any good? I may buy one for a spare.


Thanks,

[ajkula66]

I'd just ride that nVidia board...it may fail tomorrow, or never.

Intel boards are fine as long as one's graphic requirements are somewhat on the lower side.

[Cigarguy]

Yep, I'd just use it until it fails. After that the memory is worth more than free in the local classifieds. I got a few T61 and only 1 is in the Nvidia safe zone. That does not gaurantee the safe one will not die. Sooner or later they all will.

[Medessec]

That's a pretty nice T61 too... not amazingly nice, it's still Merom and has the WSXGA+, but 4GB of RAM, you gotta hold onto that if the T61 bites the dust.

And yeah, since that's a 15" wide T61, that puts you in the range of getting the "safe" NVIDIA-chipped replacement motherboards. The motherboard has to come from a laptop with a 08/08 or later production date, or the motherboard has to have a chip with a date stamp later than Aug 2008. There's a 6 character imprint to the right just below the NVIDIA logo, imprinted on the ceramic die, looks something like: "0825A2" The first four numbers mean "25th week of 2008", so just use that information to track down a motherboard with a safe chip. what you want is... probably 36th week of 2008 or later, to be safe.

However-ebay and other online sources are awful for finding a board, you'll almost certainly wind up with something that will fail even if it does have a proper date stamp, due to a poor solder job or cheap chinese clone. If you want a board, just get it on here.

And heck, I would've wanted those X201s laptops... my friend in Merced has an X200s he loves dearly, he'd love to have one. lucky.

The X1300 works okay for web browsing use and video, and even flash gaming, but any sort of 3D gaming will seriously struggle. Consider your needs- the NVS 140M is dramatically better, but if you're a gamer or abuse video hardware in any way, you'll only be permanently set with a safe NVIDIA chip. As you are now, you only have the NVIDIA failure fear looming.

[Theokretes]

Thanks for all of the feedback, everyone.

If I did get an intel board, would it actually support 1680x1050? If not, would the Quadro FX 570M boards be a suitable alternative-- or are those affected as well?

I could care less for gaming, this will just be used as a light laptop at work for me to do random stuff on. Mostly text, light 2D graphic environments. I threw in an NMB keyboard for good measure as well. Although I think the ALPS T60 keyboards have better trackpoint buttons, very crisp. I should see about making a hybrid some time...

My step brother has a T61 exactly like this one, and it's still working away fine. I'm surprised these are still working fine to be honest. Maybe the wide screen ones are less temperamental?

[Medessec]

The NVIDIA problem is very eerie in some situations- because some chips were made better than others. So while a lot of NVIDIA-equipped T61s died within the first year of landing in the customer's hands, others have completely evaded the problem, even if they're not a "safe" NVIDIA chip. You also might never know if the T61 you have might have been warranty repaired at some point in it's life.

I wouldn't say the widescreens are less finicky than the 4:3s... all non-safe NVIDIA chips are non-safe, and it's likely they may fail, but not certain. You'll notice it for sure when it happens- sometimes, you'll see some insane glitches. Not quite artifacting, but the screen splitting, getting offset, discoloration, here's an example: http://oi41.tinypic.com/mb08xk.jpg and then after that, the laptop will just refuse to power on and give you the "beeeeeep, beep beep" one long, two short beep code. Sometimes it won't even play games with you, it'll just die suddenly one day and sound the beep code.

If you don't use your T61 for gaming, then I think you'd be perfectly fine with a X1300 motherboard. Don't worry about swapping it in now unless you really want to- best to use up every ounce of borrowed time off that NVIDIA board, then if you start seeing glitches, don't even bother with anything else. Just swap in the X1300. I'm certain someone on this forum has one they can sell to you, and for a good price too. If not, getting a cheap Intel graphics motherboard on ebay works too- with no NVIDIA problem for people to repair the wrong way- you don't ever have to worry about an Intel board failing. However you will need to know the specific part no. so you don't wind up getting a 14" wide Intel board, we can help you with that too. Also- I believe Intel boards support any resolution screen that a T61 can fit, so your 1680x1050 screen should work just fine.

The Quadro FX570Ms are affected the same exact way as the NVS 140M chips, they're both NVIDIA chips. So... yeah, unfortunately it's either dedicated graphics with a failure fear or Integrated graphics.

[FryPpy]

You'll notice it for sure when it happens- sometimes, you'll see some insane glitches. Not quite artifacting, but the screen splitting, getting offset, discoloration, here's an example: http://oi41.tinypic.com/mb08xk.jpg and then after that, the laptop will just refuse to power on and give you the "beeeeeep, beep beep" one long, two short beep code.

I have very strange glitches on my 140M but it is last about year without any changes. It started a year ago when i have blown a fuse on mainboard (shorten power line for bluetooth module and inverter card). Then i've repaired this soldering tiny wire instead fuse. And BT and inverter have began going well, but glitches manifested. Not all time (1 from 5) when screen powers up (from suspend / power off thinkpad state OR EVEN from DPMS screen off state) image have distorted. Vertical lines have drawn all over screen (this is not single pixel or couple of pixels lines when line drivers in LCD control board is failing). For example at Thinkpad startup screen there is black background and wide gray lines where "Thinkpad" and "Lenovo" letters would be. After 2-10 secs or when screen resolution changes (ex from Thinkpad startup to Windows loading) image become ok. NVidia chip is marked 2012 and i dont know is it genuine.
I can test it with a spare LCD cable or LCD panel. But i think i have done this tests in past.
So the questions are:
What can cause this glitches (other then nvidia chip)?
How long nvidia agony can be?

If you don't use your T61 for gaming, then I think you'd be perfectly fine with a X1300 motherboard.

I see you thought about X3100, X1300 - it is ATI from T60 era

[ajkula66]

I see you thought about X3100, X1300 - it is ATI from T60 era

I'm pretty sure that X1300 bit was a typo...X3100 is the correct answer for *61 series with integrated graphics.

[Theokretes]

You'll notice it for sure when it happens- sometimes, you'll see some insane glitches. Not quite artifacting, but the screen splitting, getting offset, discoloration, here's an example: http://oi41.tinypic.com/mb08xk.jpg and then after that, the laptop will just refuse to power on and give you the "beeeeeep, beep beep" one long, two short beep code.

I have very strange glitches on my 140M but it is last about year without any changes. It started a year ago when i have blown a fuse on mainboard (shorten power line for bluetooth module and inverter card). Then i've repaired this soldering tiny wire instead fuse. And BT and inverter have began going well, but glitches manifested. Not all time (1 from 5) when screen powers up (from suspend / power off thinkpad state OR EVEN from DPMS screen off state) image have distorted. Vertical lines have drawn all over screen (this is not single pixel or couple of pixels lines when line drivers in LCD control board is failing). For example at Thinkpad startup screen there is black background and wide gray lines where "Thinkpad" and "Lenovo" letters would be. After 2-10 secs or when screen resolution changes (ex from Thinkpad startup to Windows loading) image become ok. NVidia chip is marked 2012 and i dont know is it genuine.
I can test it with a spare LCD cable or LCD panel. But i think i have done this tests in past.
So the questions are:
What can cause this glitches (other then nvidia chip)?
How long nvidia agony can be?

If you don't use your T61 for gaming, then I think you'd be perfectly fine with a X1300 motherboard.

I see you thought about X3100, X1300 - it is ATI from T60 era

Yeah unfortunately the T61s only use intel X3100 and not ATI X1300 (however, the X1000 ATI series is quite antiquated).

As discussed, the nvidia problem will always be a problem; there's no way around it. Your GPU could be exhibiting cold BGA joints causing intermittent problems if it hasn't failed outright yet-- and as it warms up, it will change the results of the display. OR, the LCD is damaged.

I don't really think it's possible for a 3rd party to create a "non-genuine" 140M, it would be too complex to still make it compatible with the existing BGA pads. And then you would have to use a BGA rework station to solder it in. Since Lenovo is an OEM, they have a direct source for these parts and they're all real nvidia chips.

ajkula66 really put it nicely by saying "it may fail tomorrow, or never".

So far this T61 is still working fine; and it probably will continue to do so. It's highly probable that the *majority* of the problematic T61s have already exhibited their issues and have since been discarded / repaired. I will probably wait for a cheap X3100 board and buy one as a future backup.

[ajkula66]

I don't really think it's possible for a 3rd party to create a "non-genuine" 140M, it would be too complex to still make it compatible with the existing BGA pads. And then you would have to use a BGA rework station to solder it in. Since Lenovo is an OEM, they have a direct source for these parts and they're all real nvidia chips.

The problem are re-etched chips that hit the market a couple of years ago, and forced many people - including a fellow forum member - out of business...nasty stuff.

I would've unlimbered my Kimber, but he's a nice guy...anyway...

I own 4 machines with nVidia chips, all Penryn mobos but only one with a "safe" date...and I sleep at night. Quite well, actually...

[FryPpy]

I am calm as a boa I have spare GMA mainboard and another with 140M + 570FX, but they are from 2007 and late 2008 => not safe. But they works well by this day.
If this board dies one day - it takes no more than 2 hours to jump to another one:)

But this symptoms is very strange:
- blown fuse makes video glitches
- glitches lasts for a year with no changes (nothing worse but nothing better)

The problem are re-etched chips that hit the market a couple of years ago

Yes i thought about this thing - i don't know history of my mainboard

As discussed, the nvidia problem will always be a problem; there's no way around it. Your GPU could be exhibiting cold BGA joints causing intermittent problems if it hasn't failed outright yet-- and as it warms up, it will change the results of the display. OR, the LCD is damaged.

I can use hot air gun to... remelt BGA balls (not completely reballing chip). But i understand that "nvidia problem" is not concerned with BGA. If this is "nvidia problem" - there is only one solution - change the chip (or main board).

[Medessec]

I own 4 machines with nVidia chips, all Penryn mobos but only one with a "safe" date...and I sleep at night. Quite well, actually...

I can never have this attitude... from when I had my first D900T, I let my friend try to reball the Quadro FX Go1400, and we plugged it in and it worked fine. But every time I used it, I was afraid the card would fail. And it eventually did.

I just can't imagine dealing with that fear with a computer I depend on daily... I have a spare video card for my W700ds- for example. But if I had to pass anything on to a potential T61 owner of a non-safe chip, DON'T worry about it. If something happens, it happens. Have a spare board handy, or a spare laptop. T61s are absolutely fantastic when they do work.

[Cigarguy]

I just can't imagine dealing with that fear with a computer I depend on daily...

That's why it's important to backup, backup and backup the backup. Then to mitigate down time I have 3 other T61 with identical specs on standby. When, not if, it dies regardless of reason, it takes 5 min to take SSD and HDD in Ultrabay out of dead machine and into next T61 in line. Also, being that SSD only contains OS and programs it can die at anytime without any distruption or concern. All data is on the HDD which is then backed up in triplicate onto other HDD.

Being that I am only capable of using 1 machine at a time, my X61T, T500, X201, T420, T60, T42, Dell Lattitudes, HP Elitebooks and others are set up with at least 1 SSD for OS and programs. Any time I want to use one of these machine I simply take the data and either copy it to the data partition on my X series laptop or plug the HDD into the Ultrabay slot. I swap daily use machines monthly and takes no more than 5-10 min of work with no change in workflow and/or data loss. I like the variety. I use my laptop for business at least 8 hours/day and cannot do without one.

Personally if I was the OP, since the machine is still working, I would not lose any sleep. I would take some time to find the next T61 which either have an Intel GPU or post 8/8 Nvidia machine. Besides TuuS and a few other members of this board, I would not trust the source nor can I justify the expense of a T61 MB. T61 can be had in my area for around $100ish at most. With a standby T61 on hand, use abuse and most importantly enjoy the machine for what it is. When it dies, swap whatever components you wish into the standby T61 and carry on.

[Theokretes]

I own 4 machines with nVidia chips, all Penryn mobos but only one with a "safe" date...and I sleep at night. Quite well, actually...

I can never have this attitude... from when I had my first D900T, I let my friend try to reball the Quadro FX Go1400, and we plugged it in and it worked fine. But every time I used it, I was afraid the card would fail. And it eventually did.

I just can't imagine dealing with that fear with a computer I depend on daily... I have a spare video card for my W700ds- for example. But if I had to pass anything on to a potential T61 owner of a non-safe chip, DON'T worry about it. If something happens, it happens. Have a spare board handy, or a spare laptop. T61s are absolutely fantastic when they do work.

Yeah before I got this free T61, I didn't realize the whole series (sans intel units) were affected. It's quite terrible and also generates a terrible feeling for the user especially if they are attached to the machine. Either way I wouldn't purchase a T61 if I had to. But since I have it now, I'm slowly getting more comfortable with it.

The T61 will only be used as a 'away from home at work' kind of machine. In any event, I've already ordered some IBM badges for it; I have a feeling it probably won't fail granted it's lasted this long; its warranty period was from 2007 to 2010. I assume it was used heavily as its (previous before I replaced it) keyboard was completely ground down to pure shininess. It amazes me how people can achieve that-- perhaps they use oils or lotion that helps break down the plastic for a smoother surface.

That's why it's important to backup, backup and backup the backup. Then to mitigate down time I have 3 other T61 with identical specs on standby. When, not if, it dies regardless of reason, it takes 5 min to take SSD and HDD in Ultrabay out of dead machine and into next T61 in line. Also, being that SSD only contains OS and programs it can die at anytime without any distruption or concern. All data is on the HDD which is then backed up in triplicate onto other HDD.

Being that I am only capable of using 1 machine at a time, my X61T, T500, X201, T420, T60, T42, Dell Lattitudes, HP Elitebooks and others are set up with at least 1 SSD for OS and programs. Any time I want to use one of these machine I simply take the data and either copy it to the data partition on my X series laptop or plug the HDD into the Ultrabay slot. I swap daily use machines monthly and takes no more than 5-10 min of work with no change in workflow and/or data loss. I like the variety. I use my laptop for business at least 8 hours/day and cannot do without one.

Personally if I was the OP, since the machine is still working, I would not lose any sleep. I would take some time to find the next T61 which either have an Intel GPU or post 8/8 Nvidia machine. Besides TuuS and a few other members of this board, I would not trust the source nor can I justify the expense of a T61 MB. T61 can be had in my area for around $100ish at most. With a standby T61 on hand, use abuse and most importantly enjoy the machine for what it is. When it dies, swap whatever components you wish into the standby T61 and carry on.

I will be installing a SATA HDD ultrabay in the T61. I love those things... if I ever need DVD, just quickly swap in a DVD ultrabay unit, and back out to the SATA one in seconds. Great!

I'll just wait for a super cheap T61 intel board when the time comes around if it does (I snagged a T60p 256MB fireGL board for like $30 or something a year back: which is how I revived my T60p after all of these years). I imagine snagging a T61 intel board will be even easier as they're not as coveted as the T60 fireGL ones. It won't contain critical data, and as you already noted I can just pop out the SSD and throw it in an ultrabay on a T60p if I'm real anxious to get it off instantly.

I've opened The T6x laptops so many times and broken them down to all essential components, and re-assembled it all that it's not a problem. I could probably take a T60 completely apart in 2 minutes. The 'roomy' T61s are easier to work inside of as well; a 14" T60p requires every wire to be positioned with perfect accuracy or some things will not fit correctly. Especially the dumb 3G wires, I ended clipping them off. Verizon 3G is too expensive anyways, something like $80 a month. Yeah.... no thanks.

We have a fair deal of clients in cow town (lots of thinkpads there!)

[Cigarguy]

Sounds like a good plan man.

The Nvidia GPU problem was not limited Lenovo and T61 only. This affected any manufacturer that uses Nvidia chips of that particular vintage.

[Theokretes]

Sounds like a good plan man.

The Nvidia GPU problem was not limited Lenovo and T61 only. This affected any manufacturer that uses Nvidia chips of that particular vintage.

It was actually probably worse on HPs and Dells as their cooling wasn't as robust as the T61's. I know a lot of people give T6x cooling a hard time, but DESPITE how hot some of the chips run the heatsinks inside these machines are quite hefty. Open up an X201 and compare that to a T60p! I was surprised at how empty the X201 was inside (I wanted to open at least one of them up to see how they were designed).

With a bit of tweaking and choosing selective parts a T6x series can run comfortably at 50C on load. I suppose if you opt for lower-end GPUs, even cooler.

Anyways, thanks for the feedback. The only reason why I would want to revive the T61 if it ever died is because the LCD is quite nice. Better than some of the lower-res stuff out there now.