Windows 10

[JaneL]

Who just went and censored the word "piss"?

It's been like that since the beginning.

[Temetka]

I was expecting to be p'd off. Windows 8 p'd me off so badly I can still feel the bile rise when I recall first installing it and forcing myself to use it for a month just in case it was a case of "user not wanting to learn."

I am still puzzled by how anyone could be soooooo p'd by any software. Other than the new Start menu, what else about Windows 8 bothered you?

I was confused by Windows 8 initially, but adapted to it after a couple hours. By contrast, after 7 years, I still haven't fully adapted to the new Office interface that started with Office 2007. Nonetheless, I would never say "Office 2007 p'd me off so badly I can still feel the bile rise when I recall first installing it". I try not to get too agitated over small inconveniences, because it's not good for my health.

Windows 8 is a great OS.

For Tablets.

But for a desktop and keyboard junkie like me, the first release of 8 was not that great from a useability point of view (for my needs). Where's the control panel? Why so many clicks to shutdown? etc, etc. I value being able to navigate most of the OS via keyboard because that's how my dad did it, my dad's dad did it and it's the way America does it. (Obscure movie reference). The install went fine. Here's me in the first 10 minutes:

Where is this thing?
Why did they move this here?
Why do I have to google this function that's been the same for 10 years?
(cursing)
Oh look I can move the tiles. Neat.
Now where in the name of Cthulhu are the rest of my programs?
I meant to click close program, not open your girly charms menu.
(cursing)
(invoking Chtulhu)
I need a Microsoft account for this???
Stop syncing my 2GB Documents folder to OneDrive. No, I don't want my ammo excel sheet on their server.
(head explodes)

Reinstall Windows 7.
(serenity returns)

No Microsoft OS, EVER has done that to me. EVER. May Windows 8 rot in one of the 9 circles of Hell.
Now Windows 8.1 Update 1 was (and is) rather nice. I have very few if any issues with it.

[BillMorrow]

Where is this thing?
Why did they move this here?
Why do I have to google this function that's been the same for 10 years?
(cursing)
Oh look I can move the tiles. Neat.
Now where in the name of Cthulhu are the rest of my programs?
I meant to click close program, not open your girly charms menu.
(cursing)
(invoking Chtulhu)
I need a Microsoft account for this???
Stop syncing my 2GB Documents folder to OneDrive. No, I don't want my ammo excel sheet on their server.
(head explodes)

Reinstall Windows 7.
(serenity returns)

<LOL>
good but very shortened version of my first experience with win8..
-i hate eight-
well, not entirely, but it is sure enlightening to learn how out of touch i have become in the last 6 years, more or less..

just where IS win 10 alpha version available..
i can't find anything since tech net disappeared..

[Dekks]

Search for windows 10 technical preview.

[ZaZ]

Windows 8 is a great OS.

For Tablets.

They should have had a Windows 8 version for tablets/phones and another for PCs/notebooks to be less confusing. I have a Windows 8 Phone and like it quite a bit. Of course there are already tablets like the Surface and Venue that can run full Windows, which just muddles things even more.

[RealBlackStuff]

This was already mentioned on the previous page, but here goes again: Windows 10 Technical Preview

But be careful! Tiny $hafty brother is watching your every step and keyboard click!

[Temetka]

This was already mentioned on the previous page, but here goes again: Windows 10 Technical Preview

But be careful! Tiny $hafty brother is watching your every step and keyboard click!

Paranoid?

This is first time Microsoft has solicited user input for their next OS. They want to be able to track usage from a huge variety of variables. Sending usage info back to them is an excellent way to do this. While I am just as paranoid as the next IT guy, I am 99% certain (can never be 100%) that aren't tracking what porn is viewed. They want to see how Office works, Windows Store experiences and so forth. I don't really have a problem with this - in this specific case. Now if this were the default in the retail version of the OS, then yeah I would be grabbing my torch and pitchfork.

[pianowizard]

No point cursing and swearing any longer!
Install UbitMenu in Office 2007/2010/2013 to get rid of that horrible space-wasting ribbon:

I had read about this but don't think it would be an improvement. While I don't like the ribbon menus 100%, I wasn't 100% happy with the old menus either, because they were getting enormous. With the ribbon minimized, it doesn't take up that much space.

Windows 8 is a great OS.

For Tablets.

I disagree. I have tried Windows 8 on a tablet and much prefer using a keyboard and a mouse. Through touchscreen alone, right-clicking is too slow, and many elements on the screen are often too small to click accurately.

Touchscreen on a laptop or desktop can be very useful at times, but I still don't like having it as the only input method. Obviously, this applies to smartphones as well, and Android and iOS.

But for a desktop and keyboard junkie like me, the first release of 8 was not that great from a useability point of view (for my needs). Where's the control panel? Why so many clicks to shutdown? etc, etc.

I too felt lost when I couldn't find the Control Panel, but the solution was easy: Just put a Control Panel shortcut on the desktop area.

If you really are a keyboard junkie, I am surprised that you even bothered to use the mouse to shut down. How about just press ALT + F4? Even better, why not go to "Choose what the power button does" and set it to "Shut down"?

I value being able to navigate most of the OS via keyboard because that's how my dad did it, my dad's dad did it and it's the way America does it.

And yet you didn't know about ALT + F4, or at least don't use it often?

Where is this thing?
Why did they move this here?
Why do I have to google this function that's been the same for 10 years?
(cursing)
Oh look I can move the tiles. Neat.
Now where in the name of Cthulhu are the rest of my programs?
I meant to click close program, not open your girly charms menu.
(cursing)
(invoking Chtulhu)
I need a Microsoft account for this???

All these happened to everyone. Many of us have been able or willing to adapt (within 2 hours for me), while others haven't.

I love the tiles because they are huge and thus impossible to misclick -- I misclick all the time on the Classic Start Menu. After moving the programs that I frequently use all the way to the left of the Metro Start Menu, I never need to move the tiles. To find a rarely used program, I just start typing, just like for Windows 7 and earlier versions. That's faster than scrolling through either the Classic Start Menu or the Metro Start Menu, and a "keyboard junkie" should know this.

If you must have the Classic Start Menu, you can get it through third-party programs, just like for Office.

Closing a program by clicking? Again, as a "keyboard junkie", I thought you would rather press CTRL + W, or ALT + F4.

No, you don't need any Microsoft account to do anything. Just say "no" when Windows asks you to sign in or sign up, and it won't bother you again. The first time I installed Windows 8 I was fooled into logging in my Microsoft account but later realized I didn't have to.

Stop syncing my 2GB Documents folder to OneDrive. No, I don't want my ammo excel sheet on their server.
(head explodes)

Now, this has never happened to me. Is this a feature of Microsoft Office 365? Windows 8 certainly has never automatically synched anything, and yes, I do use One Drive now and then. But I use Office 2010 exclusively.

Now Windows 8.1 Update 1 was (and is) rather nice. I have very few if any issues with it.

So, why are you still so obsessed with the imperfections of the original Windows 8? Wasn't XP also imperfect before SP2? And yet you got over that? I don't understand why so many people treat 8 and 8.1 as two separate versions. Actually, I sort of understand: they just want to have something to b*tch about. Another reason is that they want to be able to say "look, Windows 8's market share is still only 5.6%! It's a failure!". (BTW, I didn't make up this number -- see http://www.netmarketshare.com/operating ... pcustomd=0 )

Paranoid?

This is first time Microsoft has solicited user input for their next OS. They want to be able to track usage from a huge variety of variables. Sending usage info back to them is an excellent way to do this. While I am just as paranoid as the next IT guy, I am 99% certain (can never be 100%) that aren't tracking what porn is viewed. They want to see how Office works, Windows Store experiences and so forth. I don't really have a problem with this - in this specific case.

Very well said. This is almost the definition of beta testing. It's surprising that some people are surprised by such tracking.

[Temetka]

I know all the keyboard commands for closing, opening, etc.

I was trying to use the mouse to emulate touch input - i.e. swiping and whatnot. Those are the scenarios I was referring to.

Sure I could cheat and put a Control Panel icon on the desktop - but I shouldn't have to.

Right now I have been running the preview on my T410 for the last few days, customized my start menu with the tiles I want on the left and so on. So far the OS is rather nice and I can quite easily see myself using it full time once it reaches shipping status. Heck it's the only OS installed on my T410. I can swap in my Windows 7 SSD if things get out of hand though. But I have been able to do everything I normally do in 7 in 10. So for the time being I am going to go with 10 and give it more testing.

I am also looking at procuring a Windows tablet of some kind - mainly as a toy. Because I am well versed in the Android and iOS way of things on tablets, but my Windows Tablet experience is nil and I would like to rectify that. And no, Windows 7 on my old X41T or X61T doesn't really qualify in terms of multi-touch and other tablet specific functions.

[pianowizard]

I know all the keyboard commands for closing, opening, etc.

I was trying to use the mouse to emulate touch input - i.e. swiping and whatnot. Those are the scenarios I was referring to.

Windows 8/8.1 was designed to be used on both traditional computers (i.e. laptops and desktops), and touch-only devices meaning tablets. So, naturally, it needs to accommodate two input methods: touchscreen only, and keyboard+mouse. As long as you fully utilize the keyboard while using Windows 8/8.1 on a computer, you never need to use the mouse to emulate touch input, and Microsoft doesn't expect you to either. Emulating touch with the mouse is masochistic behavior!

Now, you may ask, why not release two separate versions of Windows 8, one specifically for tablets and the other specifically for conventional computers? I don't think that's such a good idea, because someday you may attach a keyboard and/or mouse to a tablet, in effect turning it into a conventional computer. Conversely, many laptops now have detachable keyboards. Once the keyboard is detached, you want to be able to input information through touch alone. These two classes of devices are becoming increasingly interchangeable.

In my view, adding tablet support makes Windows 8 the most innovative version of Windows since Windows 95, which incorporated the Start Menu. Kinks are inevitable when major changes are made to any product, and it looks like they will be sorted out in Windows 10. Speaking of Windows 95, I remember resisting its Start Menu initially and continuing to prefer Windows 3.11 for a pretty long time. Some people may never like 8's Metro Start Menu, but I bet most will warm up to the improved one in Windows 10.

Sure I could cheat and put a Control Panel icon on the desktop - but I shouldn't have to.

That's only for the original Windows 8. In Windows 8.1, it takes only two clicks to enter Control Panel just like for Windows 7 and earlier: right-click on the Start Menu button, and then click on "Control Panel". But of course, this doesn't count because this is Windows 8.1, not Windows 8! Windows 8 still sucks! (SARCASM)

And why do you consider adding shortcuts cheating? A big advantage of Windows over Mac OS is customization. You should feel free to move things around as much as you want. Do you think of adding RAM to a computer cheating?

[Cigarguy]

OMG another thread on hate/love of Win 8/8.1. What's next let's hate on or love Vista? Those who hate will hate, I know I do and will never change my mind. That ship have sailed. Those that are fanatics will remain fanatics and that is OK. Just stop trying to convert and/or telling me I'm an idiot for not being a fanatic.

So back to Win 10. Can someone please confirm if Charms is finally, really gone? I can't stand Charms. Most other things can be made tolerable by Classic Shell.

[pianowizard]

OMG another thread on hate/love of Win 8/8.1. What's next let's hate on or love Vista? Those who hate will hate, I know I do and will never change my mind. That ship have sailed. Those that are fanatics will remain fanatics and that is OK. Just stop trying to convert and/or telling me I'm an idiot for not being a fanatic.

We had this exact same conversation before: http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=109154

In that thread, I wrote: "I am sorry that I came across as forcing Windows 8 on you. I neither work for Microsoft nor own shares of its stock, so whether you love or hate Win 8 has zero impact on me. I just thought that since you've already bought a copy of Windows 8, you would probably want to like it so that the money you spent wouldn't be wasted, and I thought you would appreciate some tips for making Win 8 easier to use."

Then you said: "Appreciate the tips. Keep it coming, thanks."

Windows 8/8.1 is not a religion; there isn't a sacred text commanding its followers to convert unbelievers. I am explaining how to use Windows 8/8.1 for the reason quoted above. Consider this free education. (FYI, I am usually paid to teach.) Even if you plan on skipping Windows 8/8.1, Windows 10 will retain some of the features introduced in 8/8.1.

I can't stand Charms.

Windows 8/8.1 has lots of features intended for touchscreens, that we can simply ignore while using conventional computers. True, there are a few features found only in the Charms menus, but most other items can be accessed elsewhere. I rarely find myself using Charms.

[emeraldgirl08]

Can someone please confirm if Charms is finally, really gone? I can't stand Charms. Most other things can be made tolerable by Classic Shell.

Hey Cigarguy. You can click on Windows Start logo >> right-click in the start menu that pops up >> click on Properties >> click on Navigation >> untick the Corner Navigation box which indicates 'When I point to the upper-right corner, show the charms.'

[Temetka]

And why do you consider adding shortcuts cheating? A big advantage of Windows over Mac OS is customization. You should feel free to move things around as much as you want. Do you think of adding RAM to a computer cheating?

Because, and I am going to try to be crystal clear here:

I have never had to before, and shouldn't have had to in Windows 8.

Now in 8.1 and 10 they regained their sanity. Awesome.

Now get off my lawn.

[Temetka]

OMG another thread on hate/love of Win 8/8.1. What's next let's hate on or love Vista? Those who hate will hate, I know I do and will never change my mind. That ship have sailed. Those that are fanatics will remain fanatics and that is OK. Just stop trying to convert and/or telling me I'm an idiot for not being a fanatic.

So back to Win 10. Can someone please confirm if Charms is finally, really gone? I can't stand Charms. Most other things can be made tolerable by Classic Shell.

No charms are not totally gone. But you are no longer required to use the charms bar as you were in Windows 8. (8.1 handled differently).

I think the video on this site will answer your questions.

http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/wind ... ome_client

And I don't see this as a hate on 8 thread. I really liked 8.1 and am loving 10. But 8, well, 8 was not so great. Other people may have different opinions and that's cool. That's what makes hanging out and having discussions like this so awesome. We can come together and express our views and just in general - geek out. And, I think that's great.

[Ibthink]

That's only for the original Windows 8. In Windows 8.1, it takes only two clicks to enter Control Panel just like for Windows 7 and earlier: right-click on the Start Menu button, and then click on "Control Panel". But of course, this doesn't count because this is Windows 8.1, not Windows 8! Windows 8 still sucks! (SARCASM)

Wasn´t that also possible in Windows 8? The Windows + X / power-user menu is really great by the way in general...

[Temetka]

That's only for the original Windows 8. In Windows 8.1, it takes only two clicks to enter Control Panel just like for Windows 7 and earlier: right-click on the Start Menu button, and then click on "Control Panel". But of course, this doesn't count because this is Windows 8.1, not Windows 8! Windows 8 still sucks! (SARCASM)

Wasn´t that also possible in Windows 8? The Windows + X / power-user menu is really great by the way in general...

I was wrong, I don't know all the keyboard commands.

Thanks for the Win + X tip.

[BillMorrow]

just 2 remarks..
win8 on the thinkpad tablet 2 is just adding another level of difficulty to a non-keyboard device..
adding a keyboard and what have you got..? a thinkpad..! so size considerations aside, how is that better for someone who just wants something to do a particular job and not have to struggle with a less-than-accurate pen or stylus and a less-than-steady hand holding that pen..
the tablet picks up the presence of the pen before the screen is touched..

it begins to appear that M$ has built a sales OS rather than a business OS.. it wants to sell me stuff.. games, apps and other stuff i can get free..
i really don't want M$ tracking my buying habits..

downloading win 10 now and i'll stick it on a thinkpad and see what it looks like..
4:30 am now so since this will take another hour it says i'll let it do its stuff and hit the sack..

[RealBlackStuff]

For those of you who want to download W10-Preview WITHOUT signing up to M$, go here:
http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/preview-iso

[pianowizard]

Wasn´t that also possible in Windows 8? The Windows + X / power-user menu is really great by the way in general...

Thanks for the tip. There's a very long list of Windows key shortcuts for 8.1 (http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/wind ... =windows-8). I looked through it long ago and decided that only several of them were worth memorizing, since the rest could be done easily through other means, though I have to admit it's quicker to hit Windows + X than to right-click on the Windows key. Are you sure that Windows + X was already working in Windows 8.0?

I always welcome tips on the software that I use, especially for programs and apps that I currently dislike (e.g. Photoshop). If a program is liked by many other users, chances are I am not using it correctly or efficiently. If this is called "converting", then please convert me!

And I don't see this as a hate on 8 thread.

Cigarguy doesn't mind turning this into a "hate on 8" thread -- scroll back and see the second post in this thread. He just doesn't want to see so much love for something he hates, and he loves to keep hating things that he currently hates.

win8 on the thinkpad tablet 2 is just adding another level of difficulty to a non-keyboard device..
adding a keyboard and what have you got..? a thinkpad..!

We are in total agreement here. Windows 8 is NOT that great on a touch-only device. I've used Android and iOS tablets and while they are easier, they still aren't great. The most satisfying OS for slate tablets remains Palm's WebOS. Too bad HP ruined it.

[Cigarguy]

^^^ So what if I hate! Sorry you got a problem with it. I don't. What I love or what I hate is none of your business. I'm like that with cigars, cameras, computers, rum,.....that's me. Good luck trying to "educate" this old horse from being who he is. Too old for that, can only be shot and put out of misery. Having said that, I'm neither miserable nor do I remember registering in any class.

As someone already said, get off my lawn.

Would still like to know if Charms is around and/or can be easily be disable. Still nothing definitive from the articles I've read but this is NOT the definitive Win 10. So I'll wait and see.

[pianowizard]

^^^ So what if I hate! Sorry you got a problem with it.

Oh no, I don't have a problem with it. I am having so much fun watching you suffer! So, no need to apologize. I thank you for the entertainment.

[RealBlackStuff]

Look guys, this thread is about Windows 10, NOT Windows 8/8.1.
Now stick to the subject please, or else...
Thank you.

[BillMorrow]

gentlemen..!!!
piano and cigar..
please..
lets not be dems and repubs..
leave that stuff for the forum facebook page..
please be nice, hereabouts..

BTW dominic..
i just put that win10 trial thing on that huge thumbdrive..

[Summilux]

But what makes this "gotta have" over 8.1 with
a. Classic Shell for the start menu, http://www.classicshell.net/ Classic Shell is a completely transparent replacement for the missing Microsoft start menu. So why does everyone hype the issue that it's back?

Because it's back. And if it's back it means it's native. One less workaround to deal with. That's always something to celebrate.

I am more concerned about the "Cloud" OS. It is rumored that Windows 10 will subtract local functionality and transfer it to the "cloud."

I don't believe this rumour. With this OS they want to regain the conservatives' confidence, that's why they put the Start menu back. They wouldn't want to alienate themselves again, which would happen in such case.
Anyway, as long as nothing server-related is mandatory, and that the operating system works fully in local mode, they can try and implement whatever marketing gimmick they want.

[Temetka]

You can setup Windows 10 with local accounts and ignore all the cloud stuff if you wish.

[BillMorrow]

this selling of services by M$ seems to be M$ adopting the business model of apple and iTunes etc...
while probably a good business model to adopt i reject it..
i do not want to be categorized and tracked and so forth and i really do not want my critical or proprietary or personal data on someone else's RAID array..
a good fire safe and removable HDD is more to my personal liking..
so M$ and apple et al can have their cloud and keep their cloud.. period..

[Cigarguy]

this selling of services by M$ seems to be M$ adopting the business model of apple and iTunes etc...
while probably a good business model to adopt i reject it..
i do not want to be categorized and tracked and so forth and i really do not want my critical or proprietary or personal data on someone else's RAID array..
a good fire safe and removable HDD is more to my personal liking..
so M$ and apple et al can have their cloud and keep their cloud.. period..

Seems to be the business model of most software companies now along with the Cloud. Both of which this dinosaur rejects. Fortunately MS gives us the option of opting out, for now anyways at least with Win 10. I'm with you with regards to me controlling my own data. Grudgingly though I've entrusted my emails and contacts to Google's gmail and Android devices.

[BillMorrow]

Seems to be the business model of most software companies now along with the Cloud. Both of which this dinosaur rejects. Fortunately MS gives us the option of opting out, for now anyways at least with Win 10. I'm with you with regards to me controlling my own data. Grudgingly though I've entrusted my emails and contacts to Google's gmail and Android devices.

i sure would not trust anything to gmail or google.. they are supporters of liberal politics which is anti-liberty..

when i set up my thinkpad tablets win 8 demanded my info..
almost to the point of my national identity number and my "papers"..

[Cigarguy]

I sure would not trust anything to gmail or google.. they are supporters of liberal politics which is anti-liberty..

when i set up my thinkpad tablets win 8 demanded my info..
almost to the point of my national identity number and my "papers"..

I agree, to this day only certain types of email goes through gmail. IMO, my local ISP email account is no better but what can you do.

Your papers today your left arm and first born tomorrow. Just going to get worse. Hoping I'm wrong on this. All tablets and smartphones demand this level of control. At least with Win 8 and hopefully final release of Win 10 allows opt out. Have to work at opting out but at least you can do it.