T61, 14.1" - No Fan Error, but Pulsing Fan & Overheats.

[DiagonalArg]

Hi all. I see that I'm not the only one that has had trouble with a pulsing and quite loud fan for a T61. I bought it off of a guy who said it had started overheating and shutting down. (I got it for not much, don't worry!) I figured I'd change out the fan (yes, I did replace the heatsink paste), but no go. I don't get any kind of a fan error. The fan simply cuts out after going through a period of pulsing at about 1 cycle per 2-3 seconds. I'm able to boot into a live CD and run for about 2 minutes, then - poof.

Any thoughts? Am I looking at a motherboard problem?

Thanks!
/DA

[RealBlackStuff]

Could it be a bad CPU?
I've never come across that problem, and I've had dozens of T61 go through my hands.

[vavet]

I have seen it twice with x61. Once, oiling of the fan helped, another time didn't.

[DiagonalArg]

@RealBlackStuff - I've got an extra CPU, but it's a T7700 (SLAF7). From wikipedia:

2.4 GHz, 4 MB, 800 MT/s, 12×, 1.0375–1.3 V, 35 W, Socket P

where the original is a T9300. Assuming it's also a Socket P, then the specs are:

2.5 GHz, 6 MB, 800 MT/s, 12.5×, 1.062–1.150 V, 35 W, Socket P

Is it possible that I could just swap those out?

@vavet - well, maybe I'll try a new fan _and_ oiling it too?? What'd you do with the one that didn't improve. Part it out?

[RealBlackStuff]

If the CPU in that machine is a T9300, chances are that the previous owner overclocked the crap out of it.
Another CPU (like that T7700) might be all it needs, but don't hold your breath...

[DiagonalArg]

I don't think he overclocked. He wasn't much of a hacker. We talked for a bit.

No chance to burning the CPU/board, given that the multiplier is higher for the T9300? It looks like the voltage should probably be ok...

[RealBlackStuff]

If that mobo had a T9300, it either was a Penryn-capable board, or it had been modded already with Middleton's BIOS.
You can run T7100/T7300/T7500/T7700/T7800/T8100/T8300/T9300/T9500/X9000 CPUs on it, plus a few others that I can't remember.

[vavet]

@vavet - well, maybe I'll try a new fan _and_ oiling it too?? What'd you do with the one that didn't improve. Part it out?

It just worked with another fan as far as I remember.

[8000wobber]

Is this a general problem? I am looking at this model, and can't seem to figure out if it's a good choice as there are lots of different opinions on the noice issue online. I would like to know your thought on it. I will use it at home, and I need it to be silent, as my wife works besides me and we both hate the fan-noise

The page is in Danish, but here's the specs:
Processor: 2.2 GHz Intel Core 2 Duo
RAM : 4 GB DDR2 667mhz. (PC5300)
Harddisk 160 GB
Optisk drev DVD-RW (DVD-brænder)
Grafics: Nvidia Quadro NVS 140M 128MB
Harddrive: SATA 2,5" 5400rpm

[RealBlackStuff]

You're talking about a 15.4" widescreen version, which has different fans.
But any fan can be as quiet as a mouse or as noisy as a chicada, luck of the draw.
Don't forget that T61 are on average already 7 years old!

[8000wobber]

Ahh that's true and the price is also a little "too good to be true" so it's probably not a good solution.. thanks!

[BillMorrow]

price too good to be true..? just how much in USD is 1.999 Kr..?
also, the screen display resolution is not stated..
which would have a large bearing on too good to be true or not..

i guess fans can benefit from being oiled but if so, only a tiny bit of oil should be used..

i have a norelco razor that, on its last day under warranty, exhibited a dry bearing noise and drag which turned the razor off after about 3 seconds, which i thereafter oiled and has been running fine..
so oil is a good ideas and maybe some knowledge can be gained if fans are benefitting from oil or not..

[RealBlackStuff]

DKR 1,999 = US$ 334.24
WAY overpriced, regardless of resolution.

[DiagonalArg]

@RealBlack

If that mobo had a T9300, it either was a Penryn-capable board, or it had been modded already with Middleton's BIOS.
You can run T7100/T7300/T7500/T7700/T7800/T8100/T8300/T9300/T9500/X9000 CPUs on it, plus a few others that I can't remember.

Ah! Just what I was looking for. After dickering around with the fan, and if no luck, I can plug that T7700 in with confidence!

@vavet

It just worked with another fan as far as I remember.

Alright. I'm not hearing anyone say that they found they were dealing with a motherboard problem as opposed to a fan (or maybe CPU) problem. That gives me some fortitude to keep trying.

I appreciate your help. Will report back here if I get anywhere.

[DiagonalArg]

@800wobber

Is this a general problem?

It seems to be a problem on the 14-inchers. I've seen a few reports on this forum. I know the T61's with the 15" screen are certainly a lot quieter than the T60's. I swapped fans from the former to the latter just to quiet them down.

[DiagonalArg]

Ok, booting linux via USB I was able to get a system monitor on there and have a look before it went pfft! Even with the pulsating fan, CPU temps look fine. Idling at about 36C. It's the GPU that's crazy. Getting up beyond 80C without doing anything (except running the system monitor).

[DiagonalArg]

Can someone clue me in? Besides the CPU, the heatsink has an "outboard" that covers two other chips. One is labeled "le82pm965 sla5u", which I gather is an integrated northbridge/gpu. Astonishingly, that one is in contact with the heatsink via a thermal pad! The other chip (closer to the LCD) is in contact via thermal paste, though I only seem to get contact on about 2/3 of the chip surface.

(1) What is that other chip? *
(2) Is there anything I can do about that thermal pad??

/DA

*edit: it looks like that chip is an nvidia graphics chip. That's confusing, because googling that previous chip number comes up with links describing it as Intel integrated graphics/northbridge.

[RealBlackStuff]

Finally caught the cause of your problem!
It's the nVidia GPU (yours is probably NVS140M).
Nearly all nVidia T61 machines from before 08/08 are prone to fail sooner or later.
What's the build-date on your machine? (on the bottom label after the Serial Number, in format YY/MM)
And what is the TYPE and PRODUCTID?

The heatsink covers CPU left, GPU right (both paste), and the Northbridge (pad) below the GPU.

[Norway Pad]

DKR 1,999 = US$ 334.24
WAY overpriced, regardless of resolution.

DKR is pretty equal to NKR (Norwegian Krone) and I see that the T61s go for between 1000,- and 1800,- here in Norway right now. So no wonder I buy my laptops form the US. Even with shipping it's cheaper.

[DiagonalArg]

RealBlackStuff - Thanks for your insight. I had read on the nvidia problem, but thought the issue was only with the T61p. This is a T61, type 6481-CTO, build date 08/07. The parts list doesn't come up on the Lenovo site (probably because of the "CTO"), but I do have the original pdf with the parts detail in case there's something I should look up.

I did find some discussion that the heatsink thermal pipe can leak it's fluid and then fail* (who knew that there was fluid in there?) So I went and found a new heatsink/fan on eBay for $10, which is in the mail. I thought I'd give that a go and see what happens.

Thanks for your continued input.

/DA

* edit: adding link http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.ph ... hermal+pad

* edit: I had the type and build date incorrect (fixed now), but yes, you are right! the parts list says, "42X5981 SBB NVIDIAQUADRO NVS 140M". Does this mean I'm SOL??

[RealBlackStuff]

Until now I was only aware of three mobos for a 14.1" widescreen T61:
1) - 41W1489 Merom
2) - 44C3933 Penryn
3) - 42W7867 Penryn
add- 42X5981 Penryn (new)
However, since these WS mobos cannot be used in Frankenpads, I rarely (if ever) see these.
42X... could be a refurbished mobo, does it have an orange sticker on it with "Serviceable used part"?

Your machine was built in 08/07 (2008/July), a borderline good one.
If a machine has an MTM with -CTO (configured to order), you can normally find the correct TYPE in the PRODUCTID under it.
Or it might be in the BIOS on the first page.

Your problem could be just overheating, so trying another fan might work, but it still may be nVidia.
Since you have the fan off, what is printed on the nVidia chip?
Tell us all you can find please.

[DiagonalArg]

Your problem could be just overheating, so trying another fan might work, but it still may be nVidia.

It was just overheating! The problem has to have been that the heat pipe had leaked it's fluid and wasn't functioning any more.

All good, now.

/DA

[DiagonalArg]

42X... could be a refurbished mobo, does it have an orange sticker on it with "Serviceable used part"?

No, it does not. As said previously, I am pretty certain the guy who sold it to me didn't do any work on it.

Your machine was built in 08/07 (2008/July), a borderline good one.
If a machine has an MTM with -CTO (configured to order), you can normally find the correct TYPE in the PRODUCTID under it.
Or it might be in the BIOS on the first page.

Type is 6481, as previously mentioned. I don't know if the system board serial number will help but if so it's: VF1Y71320DX

Since you have the fan off, what is printed on the nVidia chip?

Sorry, man. I forgot to clean the chip and have a look before I put it back together. Let me see if linux can tell me anything ...

This is what I get:
nVidia, G86M [Quadro NVS 140M], version: a1

Hope that helps!
/DA

[ajkula66]

Type is 6481, as previously mentioned.

This is a 15.4" WS, not a 14" WS. Here's the source of motherboard FRU # confusion, right there...

[DiagonalArg]

Type is 6481, as previously mentioned.

This is a 15.4" WS, not a 14" WS. Here's the source of motherboard FRU # confusion, right there...

@ajkula66 - No, this is a 14.1" WS.

I have half a dozen 15.4" T6x's. Trust me. This is 14.1.

/D

[RealBlackStuff]

Please note that we want to see the complete 7-character MTM, such as 6481-23U, NOT just 6481.
And if the MTM is 6481-CTO we also want to see the PRODUCT ID on that same sticker, under the MTM/TYPE.

[QWERTY Andreas]

DKR 1,999 = US$ 334.24
WAY overpriced, regardless of resolution.

You have to consider the taxes too

It migth be 335USD, but you get a working system in a rather good condition. Furthermore you have a 2 year wartanty from the seller.

If you are buying a similar system from oustide the EU, 250USD will be equal to 2000DKK because of the import charges. And that is without postage, rigth of return, replacment b/c DOA and warranty.

SO it migth be a Little expensive, but not WAY overpriced

[ajkula66]

@ajkula66 - No, this is a 14.1" WS.

I have half a dozen 15.4" T6x's. Trust me. This is 14.1.

Then the code/tag is incorrect. Period.

Trust me when I tell you that there isn't a 14" T61 system that left any of the factories that Lenovo utilizes with a 6*** MTM, unless a wrong tag was applied by mistake, which is not impossible.

[DiagonalArg]

Please note that we want to see the complete 7-character MTM, such as 6481-23U, NOT just 6481.
And if the MTM is 6481-CTO we also want to see the PRODUCT ID on that same sticker, under the MTM/TYPE.

@RealBlackStuff - Quoting from my post, above:

RealBlackStuff - Thanks for your insight. I had read on the nvidia problem, but thought the issue was only with the T61p. This is a T61, type 6481-CTO, build date 08/07. The parts list doesn't come up on the Lenovo site (probably because of the "CTO"), but I do have the original pdf with the parts detail in case there's something I should look up.

The product ID is the same, "6481CTO".

/D

[DiagonalArg]

@ajkula66 - No, this is a 14.1" WS.

I have half a dozen 15.4" T6x's. Trust me. This is 14.1.

Then the code/tag is incorrect. Period.

Trust me when I tell you that there isn't a 14" T61 system that left any of the factories that Lenovo utilizes with a 6*** MTM, unless a wrong tag was applied by mistake, which is not impossible.

All I can do is again quote from above:

The parts list doesn't come up on the Lenovo site (probably because of the "CTO"), but I do have the original pdf with the parts detail in case there's something I should look up.

If anyone wants to see it, I'm happy to forward it to them. PM me with your email address.

/D