T60 upgrade CPU Question

[KingBubba]

Hi all. A newbie here with a minor question. I got a wide screen T60 with a T7200 duo core. I am wondering if upgrading to a T7600 is worth the effort. I see a lot of Chinese processors on Ebay for around $50. Occasionally I see one that has been stripped from a parts unit for about $75. Any thoughts would be welcomed. Glad to be here.

[theterminator93]

If you're looking to squeeze every ounce of performance out of the unit, sure, I'd say it's a worthwhile upgrade. It's obviously going to cause you to lose some in the battery life department and you'll run a little hotter as well.

Also, a quick glance shows just buying the CPU should cost you about $30-$35.

[rumbero]

For any performance relevant upgrades, i'd suggest the following order of possible enhancements:

1. Replace the HDD with an SSD
2. Update RAM to the possible maximum of 3GB (on T60)
3. Upgrade to a faster CPU

Any CPU upgrade is rather pointless, if the major bottlenecks HDD and low RAM are not remedied first.

[KingBubba]

Thanks. I am using the Seagate Hybrid drive and it does add an edge on performance. Memory is a 3gb already. This is why I was considering the CPU upgrade. The machine performs well at this point. I was just wondering how far I can squeeze it without frankenpadding it.

[ajkula66]

Thanks. I am using the Seagate Hybrid drive and it does add an edge on performance..

That's *nowhere* near the performance of a *real* SSD, even an older one.

Forget the T7600 and go for the SSD. Now.

[KingBubba]

I guess I have some learning to do. I know little or nothing about SSDs. It looks like Win7 takes about 15 - 20 gb so the SSD does not have to be huge. I appreciate the opinions. Nice forum you have here.

[ajkula66]

Well, smaller capacity SSDs tend to have slower performance than their bigger siblings.

I'd be hesitant to buy anything smaller than 256GB, just for the sake of possibly moving it to a newer machine once you retire the T60. You could get away with 100-160GB is you're trying to save money, though...

If you want to spend the least amount possible, this is a decent choice:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... gnorebbr=1

If you prefer brand new:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... gnorebbr=1

Happy shopping.

[micrex22]

Using the later CPUs can increase the heat output of the system by quite a lot-- which is one reason why I still run a 2.16 Ghz yonah, the later 64-bit capable CPUs have almost a 20W more TDP if memory serves.

Although you want the GPU to stay cool, the CPU is replaceable (so who cares), whereas the GPU is not. Which is why the earlier heatsinks with the longer GPU heatpipe are better.

[PowerPC]

the earlier heatsinks with the longer GPU heatpipe are better.

FRU for those?

[micrex22]

the earlier heatsinks with the longer GPU heatpipe are better.

FRU for those?

This one right here: http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-CPU-Fan-Hea ... 27e1a975df

[fatpolomanjr]

Are there any issues dropping in a T60 Discrete heatsink into a T61 motherboard? I actually have one lying around.

[ajkula66]

Are there any issues dropping in a T60 Discrete heatsink into a T61 motherboard? I actually have one lying around.

I wouldn't do it. T61 heatsink is much better than anything found on T60 generation, and doesn't cost a fortune...

My $0.02 only...

[AIX]

[..] Forget the T7600 and go for the SSD. Now.

This.

Last year I put an 128GB SSD in my T60 (even is limited to SATA 150!), and it's better than my T430 (w/ 7200rpm HDD) for everyday tasks. But a 512GB Crucial MX100 SSD is on its way. There's is nothing like an SSD.

[OORN]

Along the same lines as the person who posted the original question, I have a T60 2623 running dual T2300 processors, have maxed out the RAM, and am running Win 7 Pro. I am trying to squeeze what little remaining life is left on my legacy system as I am not impressed with Lenovo's current T series offerings. Yes, I have spent a great deal of time reading previous threads about upgrading to SSD (planning on an Intel DC S3500), but have a question about upgrading the CPU to a T7600.

Will I need a BIOS upgrade or new drivers, or will my system recognize the new chip after I install it? Should I also consider any upgrades to the fan given the higher operating temp (I plan on cleaning it out given that I have to remove the fan anyway in order to upgrade the CPU).

If you have any feedback on the SSD I would like to hear it (I looked into the Crucial SSD but their website did not indicate that the M500 was compatible with my T60).

[BillMorrow]

IRT current lenovo systems you might be interested in some news that will soon be appearing here and elsewhere.. "here" is this forum.. a "retro" model thinkpad..

so, stay tuned and don't give up all hope..

[Norway Pad]

...you might be interested in some news that will soon be appearing here and elsewhere.. "here" is this forum.. a "retro" model thinkpad..

Sounds exiting, now I won't be able to sleep waiting for this news.

[ajkula66]

Welcome to the forum!

If you have any feedback on the SSD I would like to hear it (I looked into the Crucial SSD but their website did not indicate that the M500 was compatible with my T60).

You'll be fine with a Crucial SSD in that T60, but try to go for MX100 or M550 which are much better drives than M500.

Happy upgrading.

[OORN]

All,

I appreciate the feedback. I am still worried about the processor upgrade -- will I need to update the BIOS or download drivers after replacing the processor? Thank you all for your help.

[ajkula66]

I am still worried about the processor upgrade -- will I need to update the BIOS or download drivers after replacing the processor?

No drivers needed.

If you have a fairly recent BIOS - I believe that 2.20 and above should be fine - the machine will accept the CPU "out of the box".

Happy upgrading.

[OORN]

I really appreciate everyone's input on this thread - your advice has really helped. The Crucial M550 was recommended as a good SSD upgrade to my T60 2623. Any reason why I would not want to go the Intel SSD route (I know that they can get a bit pricey, especially if I want to go above 500 gb). My concern is reliability and consistency, which is why I am leaning toward the DC S3500/S3610 direction. Again, thanks for all your help.

[ajkula66]

The only Intel drive nowadays that is worth having in a notebook is 730 which is an excellent SSD indeed. S-series cater to an entirely different market (server/data center) and are not spec'd for conventional PC use. Their 4KB random write speeds - very important for PC use - are outright ridiculous when compared to much cheaper options from Samsung, Sandisk or Crucial/Micron.

[OORN]

Thank you for the guidance.

[OORN]

UPDATE - I want to again thank all of the persons who replied to my original post. Not being a tech pro by any means, I was able to successfully replace my original T2300 dual processor with a new T7600 dual processor without any discernible glitches thus far. My BIOS and Windows 7 pro recognized the new chip. I have noticed that the fan is working a bit harder than before (due I believe to the higher heat output of the new chip), so I am glad I took the time to thoroughly clean the fan unit while upgrading the chip.

[axur-delmeria]

I have noticed that the fan is working a bit harder than before (due I believe to the higher heat output of the new chip),

You can try to undervolt the CPU to lower the temperature a bit.

[ThinkMac2003]

Hello,

I have a T60P, type 2007-YS3, with Intel Core 2 CPU T7600, 2.33GHz with 4GB RAM.

Since this is a 64-bit CPU, the 3GB access celling is no longer valid. But I wonder why even the 64-bit Fedora 21 recognizes only 3GB memory.

Also, is it possible to upgrade the CPU to a faster one? What's out there? Is there a T8xxx CPU I can install?

thanks for sharing your insight!

[ajkula66]

Hello,

I have a T60P, type 2007-YS3, with Intel Core 2 CPU T7600, 2.33GHz with 4GB RAM.

Since this is a 64-bit CPU, the 3GB access celling is no longer valid.

This is incorrect.

3GB limit on T/R/X60 and Z61 series is a *chipset* limitation. You can install 4GB, but the machine will only be able to address 3GB.

But I wonder why even the 64-bit Fedora 21 recognizes only 3GB memory.

See above.

Also, is it possible to upgrade the CPU to a faster one? What's out there? Is there a T8xxx CPU I can install?

No.

You could install a T7600G if you're interested in overclocking the system, but these are both rare and expensive.

[ThinkMac2003]

This is incorrect. 3GB limit on T/R/X60 and Z61 series is a *chipset* limitation. You can install 4GB, but the machine will only be able to address 3GB.
.

thanks so much for the insight. But it seems the 64-Bit Mac OS/X Snow Leopard (Hackingtoshed) does recognize it as having 4GB RAM, though it see the CPU only as "2.33 GHz Intel Core Solo". This seems to invalidate chipset as the cause of the limit.

[ajkula66]

But it seems the 64-Bit Mac OS/X Snow Leopard (Hackingtoshed) does recognize it as having 4GB RAM, though it see the CPU only as "2.33 GHz Intel Core Solo". This seems to invalidate chipset as the cause of the limit.

The machine's BIOS "sees" 4GB RAM as well. It doesn't mean that you can actually utilize the entire amount.

Try *using* more than 3GB and report back. This issue has been discussed ad nauseam on this forum for the past seven years...

[ThinkMac2003]

thanks makes sense. Yes, I read some of the postings as well.

I have an old Dell Inspiron 1501 which I just convert to Ubermix (Ubuntu with easier interface for kids). The limit was stated as 2GB, but there're report of success in upgrading to as much as 8GB. That wakes my curiosity over this much more powerful Thinkpad T60P's true limit.

thanks a lot.

[rumbero]

As i have learned only last year, the 3GB limit is in fact a BIOS limitation. Replacing the Lenvo BIOS with a suitable coreboot image apparently enables using more RAM than the Lenovo BIOS does allow. This has been explained to some more or less detailed degree by one of the main coreboot developers Carl-Daniel Hailfinger in this posting on the Linux-Thinkpad mailing list:

Citing the relevant part of mailman.linux-thinkpad.org/pipermail/linux-thinkpad/2014-November/052397.html:

Code: Select all

TL;DR: The 3 GB limit is a BIOS problem. With coreboot, you get 3.2-3.8 GB.

While there is a hardware limit of 4 GB, the 3 GB limit claimed
everywhere is an artifact of the BIOS. Regardless of CPU address space,
the i945 memory bus uses 32 bit addresses (4 GB address space) and is
unable to hoist any memory to addresses above 4 GB. This means that even
if you have 4 GB RAM theoretically occupying the whole 32 bit address
space, quite a few large chunks of the address space will be used by
MMIO ranges of internal devices (PCI etc.) and on some machines, one
chunk of the memory will also be used as shared graphics memory.

In the end, the total usable memory by the operating system depends on
the resource allocator in the firmware. /proc/iomem has the details.
With stock T60/x60 BIOS, you get 3 GB usable RAM (look at the address
ranged marked "System RAM" in /proc/iomem). With coreboot (default
settings) on my T60 (128 MB ATI graphics), I get 3.2 GB usable RAM. If
you're willing to sacrifice Cardbus or Expresscard usability, you can
get an additional 128 MB usable RAM for each because the resource
allocator can then avoid reserving space for it. Even with optimal
resource allocation and just 64 MB graphics memory, having more than 3.8
GB usable RAM is impossible due to MMIO resource alignment constraints.

Disclaimer: I haven't tried this myself yet to actually verify these claims.