Time for a New Business Laptop

[Hans Gruber]

Thanks but I already bought 600, 600E and 2 of additional 600X-s All working with dead batteries. Sorry, I would REALLY exchange but too late... I am in love with old thinkpads and making a collection as much as I can. Whatever you see in my signature is just a fraction of what I have

That is quite the collection you have there. It's like you have a IBM Thinkpad museum of relics and some newer ones.

[Nigellus]

Ok. 410 vs. 420. Pros and cons. Can anyone with knowledge give me a quick rundown.

While I used to work in IT, I'm more of a computer mechanic than an engineer. I can build my own if I have the right parts, but I don't have any specialized knowledge.

Now, the superior aspect ratio of the 410 has been mentioned. That is causing me to lean in that direction.

However, I am not willing to shoot myself in the foot hardware-wise over AR.

The T420, like the 410 comes with an i5 processor. The T420 can be upgraded to an i7.

Is there a potential to similarly upgrade the 410? And how much does the difference between the two processors really make?

Beyond that, are there any hardware reasons to chose a 420?

Thanks.

[Hans Gruber]

I would say T420 because of the SATA III port and the ability to use the WLAN for a mSata drive.

[ajkula66]

Beyond that, are there any hardware reasons to chose a 420?

1) Ability to take 16GB RAM as opposed to 8GB on T410

2) Newer, better, more efficient Sandy Bridge chipset as opposed to Arrandale in T410

3) mSATA slot that can house an SSD

4) SATA III as opposed to SATA II in the main bay


The only possible area of loss is aspect ratio, where T420 is 16:9 as opposed to 16:10 on the T410. Given that all screens on both of these machines are pretty junky, it comes down to one's preference.

[hhhd1]

And how much does the difference between the two processors really make?

Fastest processor in T410:
i7 640M , cpubenchmark.net: 2888

Fastest dual core processor in T420:
i7 2640M , cpubenchmark.net: 3946

Fastest quad core processor in T420: (not available via OEM, but possible upgrade)
i7 2860QM, cpubenchmark.net: 7301

Max ram 8gb vs 16gb

iGPU (GMA5700MHD -vs- HD3000)
3DMark 06: 1499.9 vs 3453.4
3DMark 05: 2789.9 vs 6355
3DMark 03: 3980.6 vs 8576.5
Cinebench R11.5 - OpenGL 64Bit: 1.2 vs 8.7

Power efficiency:
with 57 Wh, 6 cell battery,
idle time: 4h 12min -vs- 7h 28min
wifi time: 2h 35min -vs- 5h 59min


sources:
cpubenchmark.net
http://www.notebookcheck.net/Intel-Grap ... 065.0.html
http://www.notebookcheck.net/Intel-HD-G ... 948.0.html
http://www.notebookcheck.net/Review-Len ... 368.0.html
http://www.notebookcheck.net/Review-Len ... 230.0.html

[Nigellus]

Given that all screens on both of these machines are pretty junky, it comes down to one's preference.

I keep hearing words to that effect. What's junky per se? And how do they compare to my T60?

[ajkula66]

Given that all screens on both of these machines are pretty junky, it comes down to one's preference.

I keep hearing words to that effect. What's junky per se? And how do they compare to my T60?

Well, given that your T60 sports a XGA panel, you could probably live with one of these...

Bad viewing angles. Low contrast. Laughable colour reproduction.

Should I continue...

[bit_twiddler]

I keep hearing words to that effect. What's junky per se? And how do they compare to my T60?

Pretty junky. If you want a good display in machines from the era in question, you'll have to get a 15 incher.

The Sandy Bridge in my T420 (i5-2540m) is about as fast as the quad core in my W510 (i7-820QM).

The best way to use a T420 is with an external display, which is easy because it has displayport.

[ajkula66]

Pretty junky. If you want a good display in machines from the era in question, you'll have to get a 15 incher.

Or buy one of those modding kits and an IPS panel from T440s/T450s...

The Sandy Bridge in my T420 (i5-2540m) is about as fast as the quad core in my W510 (i7-820QM).

I've never ran these two head-to-head but would guess that T420 stays cooler. Right or wrong?

[bit_twiddler]

I've never ran these two head-to-head but would guess that T420 stays cooler. Right or wrong?

I haven't run any synthetic benchmarks which would provide an authoritative answer, but my general
impression is that the T420 runs a little cooler under load... the most stressful thing that I do is run
utilities which use encryption (such as ssh), and under load the core I5 seems to run about 5-7 degrees C less than
the I7. Both run well under their thermal limits, especially since I applied new thermal compound (MX-2)
to the I7 (and GPU) in the W510. The thermal compound in the T420 is about 4 years old now, and
probably original.

Some of the difference could be new instructions which were introduced in the Sandy Bridge.

[ajkula66]

Some of the difference could be new instructions which were introduced in the Sandy Bridge.

Yep, that's where I was going with my question. Thanks for sharing the first-hand experience on the matter at hand...

[bit_twiddler]

Or buy one of those modding kits and an IPS panel from T440s/T450s..

Speaking of which, does anybody know what the BEST screen would be to upgrade a T420?
I know they aren't all good: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x5UAO6vy5iU

[ajkula66]

Speaking of which, does anybody know what the BEST screen would be to upgrade a T420?
I know they aren't all good: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x5UAO6vy5iU

AUO. I could search for the model number, but not right now. The FRUs should be in T440s and T450s HMMs.

[Nigellus]

Okay, this has not been a good 24 hours. My car broke down, and because I ended up doing unexpected things in an unexpected location, when I opened my passenger door, my new Flex2 went sliding out of my car and smashed into the curb.

I fell not more than a foot. The corner is crumpled, and the touchscreen is shattered.

What on earth is Lenovo making laptops out of? Rock candy?

I'm not accustomed to serious structural damage from such a short fall.

It still works, but I don't like having a shattered screen.

Does anyone know if a warranty might cover its repair?

Search for T-420 has intensified. I'd prefer to have it for $225 shipped, based on the prices I'm seeing. OS COA included but I'm flexible (unlike my Flex 2).

Lesson of the day, ALWAYS have your laptop secured in its bag when traveling in your vehicle. You never know when unexpected dangers might arise.

I am still not used to this stupid keyboard.

Lenovo, you FAIL!

[kony]

Consumer grade hardware is of poop quality, more news at 11.

[ajkula66]

Does anyone know if a warranty might cover its repair?

Extremely unlikely. Don't count on it.

Search for T-420 has intensified. I'd prefer to have it for $225 shipped, based on the prices I'm seeing. OS COA included but I'm flexible (unlike my Flex 2).

What level of specs are you looking for? Saying just a T420 for $225 shipped doesn't mean an awful lot...

[Nigellus]

Does anyone know if a warranty might cover its repair?

Extremely unlikely. Don't count on it.

Search for T-420 has intensified. I'd prefer to have it for $225 shipped, based on the prices I'm seeing. OS COA included but I'm flexible (unlike my Flex 2).

What level of specs are you looking for? Saying just a T420 for $225 shipped doesn't mean an awful lot...

Well, I'd like something with an i7 processor, at least 4-8GB RAM.

I'm flexible on HDD/SSD space.

I'd prefer a DVDRW drive (yes, I still have a use for such a thing).

At the end of the day, I'm also flexible on the processor. (I'll take something with an i5).

I'm looking for a work machine with plenty of storage space and enough processing power to do all ordinary web-surfing/video streaming and do it well enough that I won't need to upgrade in five years.

[Nigellus]

From Lenovo:

This product has a one year limited warranty and is entitled to parts, labor and courier service. Service is available Monday-Sunda y, except holidays. Many parts can also be delivered to you using the Customer Replaceable Unit (CRU) method.

Now, to contact Lenovo and figure out exactly what that means...

[ajkula66]

Now, to contact Lenovo and figure out exactly what that means...

If this is regarding your busted Flex, you're on your own there...

[Nigellus]

Now, to contact Lenovo and figure out exactly what that means...

If this is regarding your busted Flex, you're on your own there...

Yeah, they're not going to cover this. I wonder what it'll cost to fix.

It's a little embarrassing. If this was my ThinkPad, I'd have the thing open and apart without hesitation. But I can't even find screws on this one.

[Nigellus]

Well, I'd like something with an i7 processor, at least 4-8GB RAM.

I'm flexible on HDD/SSD space.

I'd prefer a DVDRW drive (yes, I still have a use for such a thing).

At the end of the day, I'm also flexible on the processor. (I'll take something with an i5).

I'm looking for a work machine with plenty of storage space and enough processing power to do all ordinary web-surfing/video streaming and do it well enough that I won't need to upgrade in five years.

I haven't looked into this possibility yet... but since there's a chance my Flex may end up a junker for parts (I simply don't like using a cracked screen... never have), does anyone know what's involved in transferring my Windows 8 OS off of that machine?

The reason I ask is because the computer didn't come with a COA unless that stuff is all electronic now.

If I can transfer Windows 8, I may be willing to pick up a machine without an OS.

For that matter, would an HDD or SSD or RAM that fits in a Flex fit in a T-420?

And if so, how could I remove it without breaking the machine even more?

(This would increase the possibilities of acceptable machines).

[ajkula66]

I haven't looked into this possibility yet... but since there's a chance my Flex may end up a junker for parts (I simply don't like using a cracked screen... never have), does anyone know what's involved in transferring my Windows 8 OS off of that machine?

The reason I ask is because the computer didn't come with a COA unless that stuff is all electronic now.

Your Flex has a code for W8 in BIOS, instead of COA. T420 won't have that.

If I can transfer Windows 8, I may be willing to pick up a machine without an OS.

Highly unlikely.

For that matter, would an HDD or SSD or RAM that fits in a Flex fit in a T-420?

Yes to all, most likely.

And if so, how could I remove it without breaking the machine even more?

(This would increase the possibilities of acceptable machines).

Check the appropriate HMM. I've never ripped apart one of those...things...

[micrex22]

Hey Nigellus, why don't you just pop a T61 intel graphics mobo in a 14.1" thinkpad?

Then you could boost it to 8 GB of RAM with a slightly newer core2duo and still keep the same chassis / LCD. Of course that'd require purchasing spare parts and modding, and you'd lose the ultrabay.

[ajkula66]

and you'd lose the ultrabay.

No he would not. The only thing that would be lost is the 56K modem.

[micrex22]

and you'd lose the ultrabay.

No he would not. The only thing that would be lost is the 56K modem.

*gasp* but he needs that 56K modem for when he's on the road!
(just some light humour )

Oh hmm... which FRU of T61 mobo fits in a 14.1" T60 chassis?

[ajkula66]

[

Oh hmm... which FRU of T61 mobo fits in a 14.1" T60 chassis?

Anything that originally was in a 14" (4:3) T61/p - be it Intel or nVidia, Merom or Penryn - and there's about half a zillion FRUs involved.

There's really not much difference in building a 14" T601 from the 15" one. Most people just found it easier - and rightfully so - to purchase a 14" T61/p and call it a day.

[Nigellus]

I've managed to pick up a T420, thanks to theterminator93 selling me a great machine.

The Flex 2 did NOT work out as a business laptop. I cannot stress this enough.

Typing on it was extremely uncomfortable, and the touch/clickpad was a torment worthy of Tartarus. Typing would make my fingers sore, and it was difficult to judge which key I was hitting due to the chiclit mac-ripoff keyboard. To add insult to injury, it seemed like even just waving my hand over the thing would cause it to rotate off the screen I was working on into another app or whatever, forcing me to either swipe the touch screen or use the Windows key to navigate back to the screen I was working on.

Seriously, the Windows key has been around for about 20 years now, and I have NEVER had a use for it before now. And just so we're clear, mitigating a major design flaw is not what I'd call a good use. But I was glad it was there, because it could have been a lot worse without it.

The glossy screen makes viewing the screen in an environment with any bright lights (outside, or near a window) difficult.

So I'm not broken up about all the damage it took sliding the 1 foot out of my car and onto the sidewalk. This product should be an embarrassment to Lenovo, though. It's ridiculous that such a short fall should crunch the corner of the machine AND the screen. Had this been a ThinkPad, I'd have had only some scuffing.

In short, the Flex 2 is grossly unsuited to be a business laptop, or indeed a laptop for any serious purpose. It might be ok for casual media consumption, but that's it.

It's a shame, though. It has decent specs for 2015. Lenovo Flex 2 14" i7-4510U 2.00GHz 2.60GHz 8 GB RAM WIN8.1 is now retired after less than 2 months use out of the box.

My new T420 works like a dream. The keyboard feels great. I can take it outside with my matte screen. And I can turn off the TouchPad so that I can type without having to worry about accidentally moving the cursor. This could all be by comparison to my Flex 2, but I'm pretty sure it isn't. I like it at least as much as my T60. My only complaint is it has a short, wide monitor, but then, you can't apparently have everything these days. My only other complaint is the weird delete key. It's going to take some getting used to, but nothing near what I was dealing with on my Flex 2.

[micrex22]

...and it was difficult to judge which key I was hitting due to the chiclit mac-ripoff keyboard.

Well actually, IBM pioneered the chiclet keyboard back in 1983:
http://www.brutman.com/PCjr/images/PCjr ... _small.jpg
But people of that generation hated the chiclet-style keys that it never went anywhere. :p

My new T420 works like a dream. The keyboard feels great. I can take it outside with my matte screen. And I can turn off the TouchPad so that I can type without having to worry about accidentally moving the cursor. This could all be by comparison to my Flex 2, but I'm pretty sure it isn't. I like it at least as much as my T60. My only complaint is it has a short, wide monitor, but then, you can't apparently have everything these days. My only other complaint is the weird delete key. It's going to take some getting used to, but nothing near what I was dealing with on my Flex 2.

Well that`s good to hear. Yeah I have the same complaints as you with the newer thinkpads: no 4:3 full screen and the weird delete and esc keys... lenovo just couldn`t leave them alone...

I don`t like widescreens in laptops for two reasons:
#1 16:10 is rarely used which is the PROPER form of widescreen
#2 I like the look of a square lid and don`t like the sides of the laptop wide

[ajkula66]

Well that`s good to hear. Yeah I have the same complaints as you with the newer thinkpads: no 4:3 full screen and the weird delete and esc keys... lenovo just couldn`t leave them alone...

I never got the point of enlarged keys myself. At all.

With that said, the keyboard feel of *10/20 series is still vastly superior to the island keyboard found in later models, at least for silly old me.

I don`t like widescreens in laptops for two reasons:
#1 16:10 is rarely used which is the PROPER form of widescreen

For years now I've been wondering why no one - at least to the best of my knowledge - ever introduced a 14" 1680x1050 (WSXGA+) panel. That would've been a winner in my opinion.

#2 I like the look of a square lid and don`t like the sides of the laptop wide

Call me old-fashioned, but a "square" ThinkPad looks as it should. As much as I like some of the widescreen models, they just don't feel the same.

T420 is really not a bad system, and its biggest downfall - in my opinion - is the LCD. Otherwise it's a machine with a lot of fine features, and fairly future-proof given its Sandy Bridge architecture.

My $0.02 only...

[Nigellus]

Well actually, IBM pioneered the chiclet keyboard back in 1983:
http://www.brutman.com/PCjr/images/PCjr ... _small.jpg
But people of that generation hated the chiclet-style keys that it never went anywhere. :p

Are people just not typing as much anymore? I can't imagine any other logical reason why this parody of a keyboard wouldn't experience significant market push back even in this generation. The chiclet keyboard is "good enough" for social media posts and typing in a search query, so I imagine people only doing that wouldn't be bothered too much by it.