WTB: 120GB 7200RPM PATA IDE 2.5inch HDD (for Thinkpad 600x)

[Hierax_ca]

I'm looking to buy a 120GB 7200RPM PATA/IDE 2.5" HDD to max out a Thinkpad 600x
(I've already got 100gb 7200RPM and 120gb 5400rpm). Anyone got one?

[Brad]

Tis a noble quest.

Unfortunately they don't exist.

100Gb was the largest capacity IDE laptop drive with 7200 rpm.

Brad

[Hierax_ca]

Darn, I thought that Seagate made some of these?

Everytime I see them come up on E-Bay (there's at least 3 for sale now) they're way too expensive ($100+), and I was hoping that someone here would have one for a reasonable price. So then, are they just mis-advertised as 2.5" when they are really 3.5" or 7200rpm when they are really 5400rpm?

[rkawakami]

Or they are SATA instead of IDE.

[ajkula66]

If you want the fastest IDE laptop HDD...ever.

Samsung HM160HC

Yes it is 5400rpm but do not be fooled by that...

[pianowizard]

If you want the fastest IDE laptop HDD...ever.
Samsung HM160HC

I thought the 320GB Western Digital drive should be the fastest, since it has the highest areal density.

[ajkula66]

I thought the 320GB Western Digital drive should be the fastest, since it has the highest areal density.

Nope. I can't find the benchmarks right now but it's HM160HC.

[that1nerd]

I can't find the benchmarks right now but it's HM160HC.

http://forum.notebookreview.com/hardwar ... drive.html

Almost 60 MB/s I/O speed? That's actually pretty impressive for an IDE drive.

[RealBlackStuff]

Just in case, I have a NOS (new old stock) HM160HC laying around, waiting for the right rainy/snowy day...

[ajkula66]

Just in case, I have a NOS (new old stock) HM160HC laying around, waiting for the right rainy/snowy day...

That's likely worth its weight in gold - or at least silver - nowadays...

[pianowizard]

Almost 60 MB/s I/O speed? That's actually pretty impressive for an IDE drive.

Here's *the* list of all HDD benchmarks: http://www.harddrivebenchmark.net/hdd_list.php

Seagate ST910021AS (100GB 7200rpm IDE): 275
Western Digital WD3200BEVE (320GB 5400rpm IDE): 325
Samsung HM160HC (160GB 5400rpm IDE): 344
Western Digital WD2500BEVE (250GB 5400rpm IDE): 357

According to this, WD's 250GB drive is slightly faster than the 160GB Samsung, while the 320GB WD is slightly slower.

I bought one Seagate 100GB 7200rpm HDD shortly before it was discontinued, and was tempted to buy more but am glad I didn't, since it's not really that fast, and 100GB is kind of small. Seeing the above numbers, I still think the 320GB is the best to get because it's almost the fastest, and it's certainly the highest-capacity.

EDIT: Ooops, the ST910021AS is the SATA version. ST910021A isn't listed.

[rkawakami]

There's something wrong with the Seagate drive on your list. ST910021AS is for a SATA drive, not IDE.

Now, ST9120021A (no "S" at the end) would be a proper Seagate model number for an IDE drive, and it's the one that is shown on the two eBay listings I can find for 120GB 7200RPM IDE drives. The problem is that I can't find a Seagate PDF document that references this model number. It's like it doesn't exist except there's two photos of it. What is strange in those eBay photos is that there's a yellow sticker that has some Chinese (?) printing on them (both eBay sellers are in China). I've been buying Seagate Momentus drives for some time and I don't think I've ever run across one that has that sticker. Anyone know what it says?

Also from the photos, both drives are IDE; you can see the pins at the end of the drive. Could these be a Photoshopped? Or maybe somebody in China has printed fake Seagate labels and slapped them on slower drives? I also ran the model and serial number through Seagate's Warranty Validation site. ST9120021A does not appear to be a valid model number; warranty lookup returns no Seagate Part Number.

ref: http://www.ebay.com/itm/250985425960 (best photo to see the sticker)
ref: http://www.ebay.com/itm/271683294477
ref: http://support.seagate.com/warranty (Seagate Warranty Validation)

[pianowizard]

There's something wrong with the Seagate drive on your list. ST910021AS is for a SATA drive, not IDE.

I caught that before you posted -- see the EDIT that I appended to my post. The PassMark site does have a score for the ST910021A (http://www.harddrivebenchmark.net/hdd.p ... +ST910021A), although that page says "39.1 GB" for drive size, so the benchmark of 257 isn't very trustworthy.

Anyone know what it says?

The top row says "original, genuine product". The bottom row says "3 years" of something, probably referring to the warranty. (My Chinese is very rusty.)

[rkawakami]

I caught that before you posted -- see the EDIT that I appended to my post.

Yes I saw that after I posted. I've also updated my post to include a warranty lookup on those eBay drives.

The top row says "original, genuine product". The bottom row says "3 years" of something, probably referring to the warranty. (My Chinese is very rusty.)

I find it very suspicious that Seagate would put something like that on their drives. My gut feeling tells me that these are counterfeit drives but I'm not going to spend over $100 to find out .

edit: Submitted a support request at Seagate.com to verify if these are genuine or counterfeit.

[rkawakami]

So I submitted a query to Seagate Support via their web site asking if Seagate did indeed make these drives. I don't have a copy of what I asked as I assumed that their reply would have my original message (wrong!). I told them about the two eBay auctions for drives with the model number of ST9120021A and that I couldn't find anything about them on their Support site. I told them that when running the model and serial numbers through their Warranty Validation service it was coming back without any results. I said that I thought these might be counterfeit drives and that I wanted confirmation on that opinion. Here's their reply:

Dear Mr. Kawakami:

Thank you for contacting Seagate Support.

I understand your situation. I'd be glad to assist you with your question.

The reason the 2 serial numbers are coming up as Unknown in the warranty checker is because they are OEM drives that were installed in a pre-built computer systems. Since they are OEM drives, the drives' warranty period will be whatever the length is the computer manufacturer set for the whole computer system, and the computer manufacturer assumes the warranty responsibility for the drive.

As that did not answer my question, I sent them this a few minutes ago:

Thank you for explaining why those serial numbers did not return any warranty information but that does not answer my basic question:

Did Seagate ever make a 120GB 7200RPM IDE laptop drive? Please note all three descriptors (size, speed, interface). Specifically, the model number ST9120021A as depicted in those two eBay auctions. This is a YES or NO query and I respectfully request that it be answered in that manner so that there's no misunderstanding.

1) I can find NO reference to that model number anywhere in your Support pages, nothing in your otherwise complete documentation of marketing announcements and product data sheets. Entering ST9120021A in the Support search box yields: "There were no results for this search criteria."

2) Using Google to search for "ST9120021A site:seagate.com" yields NO hits. Google has never indexed that particular model number at any pages at the seagate.com URL.

3) Using Google to search for "ST9120021A" shows about 3 pages of relevant hits. Most of them are at online sellers of used computer equipment. Nothing that I would consider a major retailer. Some of the Google hits when clicked on show obviously wrong items, like the one at Memory4Less.com that describes the drive as "Seagate Barracuda 7200.7 120GB 7200RPM ATA-1002MB Cache 3.5-inch Internal Hard Drive". That they are selling one for $357.07 (on sale!) is rather outrageous.

4) Normally when I use your Warranty Validation page it returns a Seagate Part Number along with the warranty status. This does not happen with these drives; that field is BLANK.

5) Normally when I use your Warranty Validation page on OEM drives it will say "The product you identified was sold as a system component." Or "This drive is out of warranty with Seagate." For these two drives your site says: "Warranty could not be determined. Please check the serial number and product numbers entered and try again. If problem persists, contact your nearest Customer Support center." It makes NO mention that these are OEM drives, rather it seems to say that the model and/or serial numbers are unknown to your database.

The only conclusion I'm left with is that these are FAKE drives.

I get a little peeved when a question is asked about a specific thing but it's answered with a response that really has nothing to do with the original query. I get this from my wife a lot .

[erik]

ST9120021A

oddly enough, plug ST912021A (note only one zero) into seagate's search field and it will return "momentus laptop ST912021A 120GB" as the result, albeit with no working documentation links.   searching online for "ST912021A" gets a lot of hits for both numbers.

their initial response looks to be correct about it being an OEM drive.   that would explain it missing from retail datasheets.

[rkawakami]

Oh I'm not disputing that these may be OEM drives. It's clearly printed that way on those two eBay auctions. What I'm not so sure is that Seagate would have never released any documentation about these drives. I've never failed to find some document at Seagate.com for any inquiry I've made on a model number I ran across except for this one; both PATA and SATA Momentus drives. This has included both official/retail Seagate drives and ones marked as OEM.

I have a list of over 100 SATA Seagate Momentus model numbers, from 30GB up to 750GB. I did this so that I can quickly determine the cache size, rotational speed and any specific options/features they have (i.e., Full Disk Encryption). These were taken directly from the Seagate Support site product datasheets. Granted, I haven't yet prepared such a list for PATA drives and maybe it's time I did.

And yes I've tried both ST9120021A and the shorter ST912021A part numbers at the Seagate Support site. ST9120021A (double zero) returns my previously mentioned "There were no results for this search criteria". ST912021A (single zero) returns a reference to a 120GB PATA drive but it's a 5400RPM version. And like you say, there's a dead link in the "SPECS" tab. Google comes back with ~400 hits for both 202 and 2002 versions but as far as I can tell, none of them are official Seagate sites or references. They are online stores that appear to be selling the same drive as in the eBay auctions (minus the one I mentioned earlier at Memory4Less.com).

If it turns out that I get a YES response to my query, that these are indeed genuine drives made by Seagate, then all I can think of is that they were custom designs for a specific vendor, requisitioned by a contract that requested that specifications never be revealed. The more I think about it, the more I'd like to get my hands on one of these and run it through SeaTools. The price is what's stopping me.

[Hierax_ca]

Exactly, that high price is what has stopped me from getting one, and starting this thread.

I appreciate all of info and inquries -- Thank You!

I'll get the aforementioned 160gb Samsung for A31p (I've already got several of the 320gb ones for T43p) but, may I also ask for 600x, what is the fastest IDE/PATA 100gb or 120gb HDD?

[ajkula66]

but, may I also ask for 600x, what is the fastest IDE/PATA 100gb or 120gb HDD?

These are all going to be single platter drives, so while I don't have any benchmarks handy to look at right now, my bet would be on Hitachi 100/7200

[pianowizard]

may I also ask for 600x, what is the fastest IDE/PATA 100gb or 120gb HDD?

The 600X supports much higher capacity than 120GB, so why limit yourself to 120GB?

[erik]

Oh I'm not disputing that these may be OEM drives. It's clearly printed that way on those two eBay auctions. What I'm not so sure is that Seagate would have never released any documentation about these drives. I've never failed to find some document at Seagate.com for any inquiry I've made on a model number I ran across except for this one; both PATA and SATA Momentus drives. This has included both official/retail Seagate drives and ones marked as OEM.

fair point.   have you run across another OEM-contract drive that seagate documented seperately from retail drives?   i'm curious if this is an anomaly or if they've done this in the past.

but, may I also ask for 600x, what is the fastest IDE/PATA 100gb or 120gb HDD?

keep in mind that the 600X is ATA-33 and will never benchmark sequential transfers higher than ~33MB/sec no matter what drive you install.

it doesn't spin but my vote for a 120GB drive would be this: http://eshop.macsales.com/item/OWC/SSDMLP120/

sequential transfers would be stuck at ~33MB/sec but 4k and 4k threaded numbers will be much higher than a mechanical HDD.

[rkawakami]

have you run across another OEM-contract drive that seagate documented seperately from retail drives?   i'm curious if this is an anomaly or if they've done this in the past.

Asked that way, I'm not sure if that's been the case during any of my searches for product datasheets on Momentus drives. I don't know if/how Seagate would document the difference between retail and OEM drives (at least up to now; more on this below). Since I already know that OEM drives carry an ex-factory warranty, I would not try to use Seagate's Warranty Validation system to check on the coverage. Even for the retail drives, it's been some time since I used the validation system to see if there's any remaining warranty on the drives I've been buying. My normal procedure is to run SeaTools on them, and if passing, partition and format the drive under Windows. If they fail, I simply document what I've done and report back to the eBay seller what I found. For the couple of drives I've had problems with in the last few years, all of the sellers have refunded my purchase. I did not run any warranty check on those failing drives, figuring that was the seller's job if they wanted the drive back (I think I've only returned one drive out of 4 or 5 failures). The only reason I used the validation system for these eBay 120GB 7200RPM IDE drives is to see if Seagate "knew" about them. Since the queries returned NOTHING for a Seagate Part Number (previous searches had always yielded a matching number to what was printed on the drive's label) AND I got that "Please check the serial number and product numbers entered and try again." message (which I've never seen before), that got my suspicions up.

Also, this is the first time that I've tried looking up the specs of a Seagate Momentus drive via its model number and found nothing at Seagate's Support site. I've always found product information on other OEM-marked drives before.

I received a reply from Seagate Support overnight regarding my last message to them. I was not expecting anything until at least Monday. Especially surprised when it came into my inbox at 2:20AM this morning; I guess their offshore Support department is performing well. Here's their responses, in RED, with my additional comments in BLUE):

To answer your questions:

1) Did Seagate ever make a 120GB 7200RPM IDE laptop drive?
Yes. They were manufactured by Seagate.
Well this is interesting! Apparent confirmation from the factory that these are genuine drives.

2) I can find NO reference to that model number anywhere in your Support pages, nothing in your otherwise complete documentation of marketing announcements and product data sheets. Entering ST9120021A in the Support search box yields: "There were no results for this search criteria."
OEM drives are sold to the OEM manufacturer in large quantity, for the manufacturer's to use in their systems. Since they are OEM drives, they are given different model numbers (emphasis is mine) for their distribution to these OEM dealers, since the drives are slightly modified to accommodate any proprietary additions the OEM manufacturer wants to add (ex: firmware).
This seems say that some model numbers are exclusively for certain customers. That might explain why there's no record of this model number in Seagate's Support site. Still, this is the first time I've run into this issue of not finding any factory documents concerning a specific model number.

3) Using Google to search for "ST9120021A site:seagate.com" yields NO hits. Google has never indexed that particular model number at any pages at the seagate.com URL.
See above answer.

4) Using Google to search for "ST9120021A" shows about 3 pages of relevant hits. Most of them are at online sellers of used computer equipment. Nothing that I would consider a major retailer. Some of the Google hits when clicked on show obviously wrong items, like the one at Memory4Less.com that describes the drive as "Seagate Barracuda 7200.7 120GB 7200RPM ATA-1002MB Cache 3.5-inch Internal Hard Drive". That they are selling one for $357.07 (on sale!) is rather outrageous.
That seems outrageous to me as well, but unfortunately, I can not really answer for the way other websites set their pricing structures. That is something you would need to contact them directly about.
I guess "Thomas", the Seagate Support tech, missed my point about not finding anything substantial concerning that part number.

5) Normally when I use your Warranty Validation page it returns a Seagate Part Number along with the warranty status. This does not happen with these drives; that field is BLANK.
I wish I could offer an answer and explain, but I just don't have one.
Stumped the tech!

6) Normally when I use your Warranty Validation page on OEM drives it will say "The product you identified was sold as a system component." Or "This drive is out of warranty with Seagate." For these two drives your site says: "Warranty could not be determined. Please check the serial number and product numbers entered and try again. If problem persists, contact your nearest Customer Support center." It makes NO mention that these are OEM drives, rather it seems to say that the model and/or serial numbers are unknown to your database.
Because they are OEM drives, the OEM manufacturer assumes the warranty conditions of the drive. The OEM dealer puts the same warranty on the drive as the whole computer itself, because it is a system component of that computer.
If that's the case, then why didn't the validation page spit out the normal "...sold as a system component" explanation? It appears that Seagate has purposely excluded this model number (ST9120021A) from their documentation and databases. Interesting.

[ajkula66]

it doesn't spin but my vote for a 120GB drive would be this: http://eshop.macsales.com/item/OWC/SSDMLP120/

sequential transfers would be stuck at ~33MB/sec but 4k and 4k threaded numbers will be much higher than a mechanical HDD.

Aren't these SandForce-based? If so - with all due respect to erik - I'd vote against them...every time.

[Hierax_ca]

may I also ask for 600x, what is the fastest IDE/PATA 100gb or 120gb HDD?

The 600X supports much higher capacity than 120GB, so why limit yourself to 120GB?

FWIW, I am setting up the particular 600x in question as a DOS7.1/Win98se legacy machine to run legacy software from that era, hence the 120gb limit (I have others as Windows 2000 and Windows XP, but this one is for the maximum Win9x functionality, just like it has the 576MB RAM to get the full 512 useable). I have been quite happy with the 100gb 7200rpm HGST but when I saw the Seagate drive being discussed here I thought that there might be an even better one to try if only it was affordable.

[Hierax_ca]

Also, I've heard that SSD HDD's, while awesome for Windows 7, don't work well for Windows XP, so I assume that they'll work even worse for Windows 98 and DOS.

[Johan]

It seems that this "WTB" thread has turned into an interesting discusion, so I guess it's OK that I also share my view...

First, I don't know anything about 600X's, but I understand from the above that they use standard 2.5" IDE/PATA HDD's. If I was after a bigger, faster HDD for a 600X, I would not get any OWC Mercury SSD's (I have a 60 GB one of these, as discussed in the thread 2.5" PATA OWC Mercury Legacy Pro SSD: Performance in T42? and based on my personal, long experience with this in a T42p, I would not recommend it).

In stead I would suggest getting a mSATA SSD and one of the Lycom/Addonics/Aleratec/DeLock/Kuroutoshikou mSATA-to-IDE/PATA adapters (Lycom model ST-173-7 and/or ST-173-9, which is identical to the Addonics model ADMS25IDE) as discussed in the thread New SSD opt. for T4x : mSATA-to-IDE adapter ST663FD9 *PICS* (if in a hurry, jump to this post and read from there and onwards). The adapter will cost you approx. USD 30,- and for approx. USD 100 you can get at least a 180 GB mSATA SSD (a 128 GB Crucial M550 will only cost you USD 80,- while a MyDigitalSSD 128 GB mSATA SSD will only cost you USD 58!). A mSATA SSD can potentially be used for many years to come, in newer laptops or desktops (in contrary to what would be the case with an OWC PATA SSD!). More hot mSATA offers e.g. via Slickdeals.

Suggestions about alternative SSD's (also suitable for use in 600X's, I guess) can be found in the sticky GUIDE: Make your T4x *FAST* by replacing the HDD with a SSD!

... but before getting any SSD's for your old 600X, I'd suggest you review the thread Trying SATA in 2001-2002 machines? Limited to Ultra ATA/33. I don't know if the Ultra ATA/33-limit discussed there also applies to 600X's, but better beware...

By the way, as discussed elsewhere in this forum I have been using various SSD's in T42/p's, under Windows XP, and they have performed just fine, for years.

PS: I happen to have several unused, brand new, NOS (new old stock) 2.5" 100 GB, 7200 rpm Hitachi PATA HDD's which I really don't need any longer...

Johan

[erik]

Aren't these SandForce-based? If so - with all due respect to erik - I'd vote against them...every time.

that's fine.   i've not used this particular drive but have used other sandforce-based SSDs without issue.   granted, all have been enterprise-class SSDs and not consumer drives.

Also, I've heard that SSD HDD's, while awesome for Windows 7, don't work well for Windows XP, so I assume that they'll work even worse for Windows 98 and DOS.

the sandforce chipset has internal garbage collection and doesn't rely on the TRIM command to clean up after itself.   TRIM certainly helps, however.

... but before getting any SSD's for your old 600X, I'd suggest you review the thread Trying SATA in 2001-2002 machines? Limited to Ultra ATA/33. I don't know if the Ultra ATA/33-limit discussed there also applies to 600X's, but better beware...

it does apply to the 600X.   i mentioned it a few posts above yours.

keep in mind that the 600X is ATA-33 and will never benchmark sequential transfers higher than ~33MB/sec no matter what drive you install.

[jdrou]

I've seen the same issue with some OEM Seagate drives not having any info on their site. This was with a 350MB laptop drive many years ago (obviously). I got a similar response when I emailed them about it. It came with my first laptop (AT&T Globalyst G130).

EDIT: Regarding the 137GB capacity limit, I don't think that should really be an issue. I've seen people report having 160GB drives in the 600X (maybe only with latest BIOS). You probably do need to keep the partition size below 137GB with an older OS though.

[pkiff]

Regarding the 137GB capacity limit, I don't think that should really be an issue. I've seen people report having 160GB drives in the 600X (maybe only with latest BIOS). You probably do need to keep the partition size below 137GB with an older OS though.

I have a 160GB drive in one of my 600X machines (running latest BIOS), with each partition smaller than 137GB. OS can also be an issue with the 137GB limit in some cases, I think. I'm running XP. I also used to have a 300GB non-system disk installed in a SelectaDock III bay that ran fine with that 600X.

Phil.