T42/T43 TouchPoint and TouchPad Driving me INSANE

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rickslate · #1 Post by **rickslate** » Fri May 27, 2005 6:38 pm

After many months of looking for a new laptop, I finally decided to go for a T43 a few weeks ago. A primary reason for my decision was the TouchPoint controls. I couldn't be happier with my current ThinkPad A31... I'm addicted to the TouchPoin.

What's the problem with the T43? It may be pretty subtle but the squared drop-off to the TouchPad just below the TouchPoint buttons is driving me insane. I usually press those buttons with the side of my thumb so I feel that edge every time I click on something. After a few hundred clicks, it doesn't feel good.

Here's the problem:

http://www.gamecubicle.com/images/t43diagram.gif

I don't want to replace the palm given that I may want to resell the laptop one day and that would kill the resale value. Does anyone know if there's such a thing as a plastic plate that I can drop on top of the TouchPad or something to smooth things out? Any advice?

IBM could have avoided this by making the TouchPad flush with the palm rest (no drop off) as it is with some VAIOs, curved the plastic, or spaced out the controls better. The situation with the TouchPad buttons isn't much better in terms of comfort. It's not that bad but if IBM recessed the plastic below those buttons, it could have been so much better.

Unhappy T43 Owner

revolutionary_one · #2 Post by **revolutionary_one** » Fri May 27, 2005 6:45 pm

If I remember correctly there was some frustration wit the TouchPad before.

A quick search turned up:

http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.php?t=3110

Would be interesting to find a solution. Bet it would be REALLY easy in LINUX

Simply removing disabling a module or something to that extent.

Keep us posted vato.

#3 Post by **K. Eng** » Fri May 27, 2005 8:50 pm

Replacing the palmrest is easy, and you can always keep the old palmrest around to reinstall if you ever sell the unit. I replaced the palmrest on my T40 with the non-touchpad model, and it feels much better!

rickslate wrote: I don't want to replace the palm given that I may want to resell the laptop one day and that would kill the resale value. Does anyone know if there's such a thing as a plastic plate that I can drop on top of the TouchPad or something to smooth things out? Any advice?
...
Unhappy T43 Owner

wn0x · #4 Post by **wn0x** » Fri May 27, 2005 10:02 pm

K. Eng wrote:Replacing the palmrest is easy, and you can always keep the old palmrest around to reinstall if you ever sell the unit. I replaced the palmrest on my T40 with the non-touchpad model, and it feels much better!

Wow, I didn't know that was an option. I despise the touchpad. Its a great place to collect crumbs & dust, and otherwise a useless addition to my thinkpad IMHO. I am hoping the 43P has this as an optional part. I guess I would need the service manual to find it?

Kenn · #5 Post by **Kenn** » Fri May 27, 2005 11:59 pm

If you don't use the touchpad, you can disable it, cut up some posterboard and stack it into the space (or maybe just over the part closest to the buttons. Black electrical tape would probably fit in well enough to hold it in place and not make your t43 look like a 74 El Dorado with a coat hanger for an antenna.

By the way, that gif you drew of the trackpad is pretty [censored] good

NathanA · #6 Post by **NathanA** » Sat May 28, 2005 12:03 am

The keyboard and palmrest on the T4x series are CRUs (customer-replaceable units). You can change the keyboard and/or palmrest in and out at-will without having to involve IBM (except for the initial purchase of the replacement palmrest), and doing it yourself will NOT void the warranty. As K. Eng pointed out, there's no reason that you can't put the original palm rest back in if and when you decide to sell the laptop. It's not especially hard to swap them; a few screws and you're done.

I only wish that *I* had this option...I hate the fact that I have to have a touchpad on my T42p. I have a 15" model, and IBM never made a replacement keyboard bezel/palmrest for the 15-inchers sans touchpad.

You 14" owners have got it made, lucky sods...

...well, except for the FlexView

/me ducks...

-- Nathan

Kenn · #7 Post by **Kenn** » Sat May 28, 2005 12:13 am

Wow, so many people here despise the touchpad! I know IBMhas the trackpoint technology down pat, but I've always preferred the touchpad as the faster option (you're limited only by the speed of your own movements, whereas the trackpoint is just like an analog joystick, so even at the highest speed, you're left holding the stick down for a few fractions of a second longer while the cursor travels at a uniform set speed).

Hmm, before I go too far, in this crowd I guess I should be the one ducking!

Plinkerton · #8 Post by **Plinkerton** » Sat May 28, 2005 4:42 am

Kenn, I'm with you. I use the touch pad and track point about equally, depending on what type of surface I'm using my TP on.

I tried to make my thumb hit that little edge, with my thumb sideways, and I don't see how it's possibly bothering anyone.

I dig both of them, but a mouse is still the best.

RS_003 · #9 Post by **RS_003** » Sat May 28, 2005 5:29 am

Is a non touchpad palmrest for free btw?

We all payed premium prices... so imho it should be free

#10 Post by **JaneL** » Sat May 28, 2005 9:38 am

Kenn wrote:Wow, so many people here despise the touchpad!

I don't use it because I never developed the hand/eye coordination to control it no matter how much I practiced. I have the same problem backing a boat down a boat ramp. There are some things I just can't do.

I never had a problem with the Trackpoint from day one, and it has the added bonus of not having to take my hands off the keyboard to use it.

I don't depise it since I can have it turned completely off to eliminate random things occuring if I happen to bump it as I type. Now if I couldn't disable it...

Navck · #11 Post by **Navck** » Sat May 28, 2005 11:14 am

I hate the touchpad because it doesn't give me the precision of a trackpoint. Plus, I grew up on my father's T30 which only had a trackpoint, no touchpad...

Kenn · #12 Post by **Kenn** » Sat May 28, 2005 11:41 am

I truly believe that the touchpad is in every respect more accurate and faster than the trackpoint - most of the perceived trackpoint advantages come from the fact that it's slower, so it can feel more controllable. But in terms of moving across the screen at speed, or selecting points with pixel accuracy, a properly set-up pad with a skilled user will beat a relative-motion "joystick" device every time.

But of course fewer people are used to it, so in practical experience it ends up coming down to personal taste - it seems that a lot of people feel they are faster with the trackpoint - which is undoubtedly true, but not at the fault of the trackpad.

The single biggest advantage of the eraserhead of course is as nonny said - you can use it without ever taking your hands off the keyboard - in some situations that can easily make up for any speed lost from using it.

Either way, Plinkerton said it right - neither of these things holds a candle to the standard mouse.

#13 Post by **aamsel** » Sat May 28, 2005 11:42 am

I use just the touchpad, so you are not alone.

Andrew
Austin, TX

Kenn wrote:Wow, so many people here despise the touchpad! I know IBMhas the trackpoint technology down pat, but I've always preferred the touchpad as the faster option (you're limited only by the speed of your own movements, whereas the trackpoint is just like an analog joystick, so even at the highest speed, you're left holding the stick down for a few fractions of a second longer while the cursor travels at a uniform set speed).

Hmm, before I go too far, in this crowd I guess I should be the one ducking!

#14 Post by **K. Eng** » Sat May 28, 2005 11:46 am

It all comes down to personal preference - I won't throw things at people who prefer the touchpad!

#15 Post by **aamsel** » Sat May 28, 2005 12:00 pm

Whew!!
I think a lot of people on this forum feel safer right now!!!

Andrew
Austin, TX

K. Eng wrote:...I won't throw things at people who prefer the touchpad!

#16 Post by **JaneL** » Sat May 28, 2005 12:05 pm

Kenn wrote:Either way, Plinkerton said it right - neither of these things holds a candle to the standard mouse.

Oh, well, now, I completely disagree with that from both ergonomic and efficiency standpoints.

Kenn · #17 Post by **Kenn** » Sat May 28, 2005 12:10 pm

nonny wrote:
Kenn wrote:Either way, Plinkerton said it right - neither of these things holds a candle to the standard mouse.
Oh, well, now, I completely disagree with that from both ergonomic and efficiency standpoints.

LOL, OK I'm gonna drop this issue

It's something very few real-world people really care about, but for some geeky reason is very close to my heart because I've worked alongside honest-to-god "professional gamers" for whom absolute speed and accuracy in a pointing device is paramount.

Navck · #18 Post by **Navck** » Sat May 28, 2005 12:13 pm

Well some of us can use a Trackpoint just as well as they do with a Trackball, but hate the standard ball or laser mice... *Self*

Seriously, the trackpoint is great, you don't always get uniform movement, push harder for faster movement.

rickslate · #19 Post by **rickslate** » Sat May 28, 2005 1:43 pm

NathanA wrote:I only wish that *I* had this option...I hate the fact that I have to have a touchpad on my T42p. I have a 15" model, and IBM never made a replacement keyboard bezel/palmrest for the 15-inchers sans touchpad. You 14" owners have got it made, lucky sods...

Wait, I have a 15" T43. No replaceable palm rest for me?

Kenn · #20 Post by **Kenn** » Sat May 28, 2005 1:47 pm

rickslate wrote:
Wait, I have a 15" T43. No replaceable palm rest for me?

Wait a minute. Is this one of the first confirmations of 15" T43s being out in the wild?

RS_003 · #21 Post by **RS_003** » Sat May 28, 2005 2:00 pm

looking to his specs yes ?

(but it also could be still in order)

something else: no free upgrade for my 15" T42? If not free, what will it cost?

wn0x · #22 Post by **wn0x** » Sat May 28, 2005 4:03 pm

Navck wrote:I hate the touchpad because it doesn't give me the precision of a trackpoint. Plus, I grew up on my father's T30 which only had a trackpoint, no touchpad...

I grew up on the TrackPoint. I am old enough to have futzed with the built-in pointing devices on early laptops, including roller ball set-ups. It just wasn't an issue when we were using DOS, pre-Windows 3.0.

My first real windows laptop was one of the first IBM units with a 10.4" color screen and TrackPoint. A pre-760 something or other, where you were expected to replace the battery or cd-rom by lifting the keyboard. I seriously rememer thinking laptops had finally become useful. The trackpoint worked well then and now.

As a developer, the ability to edit graphical elements and type code without moving from the keyboard has been invaluable over the years. I find coding on a regular PC cumbersome for this reason, and wished I had purchased one of the "full sized" PC keyboards available at the time which included a trackpoint.

I know it was a smart move for IBM to include the TrackPad, just listening to the comments on this post confirms it. It is the first thing I disable, however. I prefer the cleaner look without it, and the lack of dust and food build up

.

As it is, because my unit has the fingerprint reader I may not be able to find a replacement. It looks like the non-pad version of the rest doesn't have a reader window.

Oh well...

JHaislet · #23 Post by **JHaislet** » Sat May 28, 2005 4:11 pm

wn0x wrote:As it is, because my unit has the fingerprint reader I may not be able to find a replacement. It looks like the non-pad version of the rest doesn't have a reader window.

Oh well...

Nothing a Dremel can't fix!

wn0x · #24 Post by **wn0x** » Sat May 28, 2005 4:54 pm

Yep, I own one. As an electronic hobbyist I have used it extensively over the years. Not sure I am ready to attack my $$$$$ Thinkpad just yet. I suppose its just like my Jeep. After 100,000 miles putting holes in the body for more radio antennas wasn't a big deal. I am not sure I will ever have enough hours on my TP to do the same!

rickslate · #25 Post by **rickslate** » Sat May 28, 2005 7:28 pm

Any advice on finding a replacement palm rest for a 15" T43 w/ Fingerprint Reader? Or even w/o a Fingerprint Reader hole. Is it on IBM's web site? I can't find it.

rickslate · #26 Post by **rickslate** » Mon May 30, 2005 8:12 pm

Are there replacement palm rests for the 15" T43?

NathanA · #27 Post by **NathanA** » Tue May 31, 2005 3:02 am

Not quite sure why this is so hard...read what I wrote and read the HMM. As my previous post would imply, *no*, you *cannot* get a palmrest/bezel *without* the Touchpad on *any* 15" T4x model. It certainly wasn't clear in your initial post what model of T43 you had, so nobody knew whether it was 14" or 15". (EDIT: I now see it in your sig, but I don't remember seeing that before.)

There are 5 total "palmrests" (on the 14" models, the palmrest is separate from the keyboard bezel; on the 15" models, they are both one single unit):

1. 14" T4x palmrest with Touchpad, no fingerprint reader.
2. 14" T4x palmrest with Touchpad and fingerprint reader.
3. 14" T4x palmrest without Touchpad, no fingerprint reader.
4. 15" T4x bezel with Touchpad, no fingerprint reader.
5. 15" T4x bezel with Touchpad and fingerprint reader.

Those are, sadly, the only available combinations as well as the only combinations that have ever been produced. When the T40 series was introduced and came with the touchpad, I guess IBM realized that there would be some long-time ThinkPad owners who would question their decision to include it, and so provided them with a way to opt-out (just a guess here; either that or the very first T40s didn't have the touchpad or it was an optional feature). The 15" models were introduced with the release of the T42 series, and by that point I guess they didn't feel that there was enough demand for a non-touchpad version. The same thing has since happened with the fingerprint reader models...there is no 14" palmreset without touchpad but with a fingerprint reader.

-- Nathan

Ted_E · #28 Post by **Ted_E** » Tue May 31, 2005 1:19 pm

What is the "lowest" model Txx with a touchpad? My personal preference is the trackpoint but I learned to fly in a stick controlled aircraft. My daughter wants to upgrade from an elderly Dell and I would like to see her with a TPad. She claims she really wants a touchpad (no accounting for taste

) so it would seem a nice refurb T23 like mine is out. Suggestions?

Ted

T42/T43 TouchPoint and TouchPad Driving me INSANE

T42/T43 TouchPoint and TouchPad Driving me INSANE

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