Just bought myself an IPS T42p...

[theterminator93]

Hopped on ebay and wanted to see what the market looked like and found a working, albeit incomplete, T42p for a steal. I'm thinking I'll use what components I can from my T41 to get it into operation then put the T41 project on the far back burner for now.

It was totally an impulse purchase, then I realized the seller is our very own RBS!

Looking forward to receiving it, and experiencing firsthand the marvels of the IPS ThinkPad...

[ajkula66]

Looking forward to receiving it, and experiencing firsthand the marvels of the IPS ThinkPad...

Congrats on your first FlexView-equipped ThinkPad.

With that being said, I see from the machine's description that the LCD is less-than-perfect, which is unfortunately a commonplace when it comes to systems this old...hopefully it won't deter you from collecting these fabulous machines.

[theterminator93]

I'm very excited to get it indeed, imperfect screen and all. I've got plans to swap the fairly new battery, 2GB and Pentium M 755 out of the T41 into this to get it running quickly. I've got a hard disk for it too but I do need to get my hands on a caddy eventually. Would I be wrong to assume that my T41 recovery disk set should work on this (barring perhaps a few missing drivers)?

I'm thinking I'll be turning this machine into the "watch movies" laptop, since poor viewing angles and contrast have plagued the experience on all other machines I've owned.

Now I must do some catch-up reading regarding the infamous GPU and chipset problems these seem to have been plagued with...

[ajkula66]

Would I be wrong to assume that my T41 recovery disk set should work on this (barring perhaps a few missing drivers)?

The T41 set will work just fine. That being said, the number of updates will be...interesting to say the least. You may want to consider taking the Linux route, although these machines will run W7 decently enough for light daily use.

I'm thinking I'll be turning this machine into the "watch movies" laptop, since poor viewing angles and contrast have plagued the experience on all other machines I've owned.

That sounds like a reasonable plan.

Now I must do some catch-up reading regarding the infamous GPU and chipset problems these seem to have been plagued with...

Well, these laptops are a decade old now or just thereabouts. Anything can happen. With that being said, parts are ridiculously cheap - apart from the hard drives - and in very good supply, generally speaking.

Good luck.

[MisterB]

I'm writing this on a 15" T42P right now. The 15" T4Xs don't flex as easily and don't suffer from southbridge and GPU failures at the same rate as the 14" ones. The T42s were made when they started adding red epoxy drops to keep the GPU and southbridge chips from moving and breaking the solder connections so a 15" T42 or T43 is the best bet for a reliable T4X machine. I've gone through a a few T4Xes and all the ones that had GPU or southbridge failure were 14". The one I'm using is the third 15" IPS T42P I've had. All of them have had blemish spots on the display and I've kept this one because it was the cleanest. The former owner was the National Parks Service.

[ajkula66]

IThe T42s were made when they started adding red epoxy drops to keep the GPU and southbridge chips from moving and breaking the solder connections so a 15" T42 or T43 is the best bet for a reliable T4X machine. I've gone through a a few T4Xes and all the ones that had GPU or southbridge failure were 14".

This is incorrect.

Red dots along the board and various-colour-epoxy on SouthBridge were introduced with T43/p in early 2005, and the change affected the final batches of T42/p as well. None of the machines built prior to that period were equipped with these enhancements, although thousands of earlier examples received revised planars through warranty replacement program.

I do agree that 15" units are a safer bet than their 14" siblings, though.

[pianowizard]

I'm thinking I'll be turning this machine into the "watch movies" laptop, since poor viewing angles and contrast have plagued the experience on all other machines I've owned.

That sounds like a reasonable plan.

Sorry but I disagree. It you (theterminator93) want to prolong the life of this T42p, you should avoid stressing its GPU. I had a 14.1" T42 that worked fine for 3 years until I turned it into a "watch movies" laptop. Within a couple months, the GPU crapped out. It could have been a fluke, but I believe it wasn't.

Red dots along the board and various-colour-epoxy on SouthBridge were introduced with T43/p in early 2005, and the change affected the final batches of T42/p as well. None of the machines built prior to that period were equipped with these enhancements, although thousands of earlier examples received revised planars through warranty replacement program.

The abovementioned T42 had red dots.

[geka3250]

theterminator93,
T42p has FireGL 9600 with longfan and doesn't seem to have flexing problem.
But I advise you some ways to make your T42p's life cycle longer:
downvoltage CPU, turn powerplay to "max battery life", use IBMECW or TPFanControl to make laptop cooler, avoid static charges on USB ports(before plugging/unplugging USB devices firstly take metal hinge by hand). Also you can do cooling mods for extreme load conditions

[ajkula66]

T42p has FireGL 9600 with longfan and doesn't seem to have flexing problem.

Actually, T42p sports Fire GL T2 and is not immune to flexing issues.

I agree with undervolting the CPU and underclocking the GPU (via Notebook Hardware Control or IBM ECW) and using ThinkPad Fan Control to optimize the running temperatures, though.

Once again, these machines are old. The less you expect, better off you'll be.

[MisterB]

The abovementioned T42 had red dots.

The red epoxy dots are no guarantee against failure, they just help a bit to prevent it. I recently had a southbridge failure on a red dot 14" T42P. Since the chip didn't respond to pressure on top of it, I think it was not a BGA solder joint failure and something else got it.

I would install TP Fan control and monitor GPU temperature while watching a movie to spot potential problems. If the temperature stays in a resonable range, it should be fine for movies. If not, replacing a fan and redoing the heat sink paste are fairly easy. I don't use my T42P for movies but I do watch videos on my T40 which has a T42 red dot motherboard taken from a 15" T42. I put in a new fan several years ago and have had no problems since. It can even handle some HD videos. Others stutter and are unwatchable but I am surprised it can do HD at all.

[brchan]

Instead of worrying about gpu/motherboard issues and making sacrifices in performance and time by undervolting, decreasing gpu clock speeds, using low power plans, why not just use the laptop to its full extent? Parts are abundant and cheap if something does goes wrong. The youngest T4xs are already about 9 years old, and although performance is still good for modern tasks, you would likely want to set them on a "high performance" mode to keep this level of performance . I am all for prolonging the life of computers by treating them well, but computers are designed to serve, not the other way around.

[ajkula66]

Instead of worrying about gpu/motherboard issues and making sacrifices in performance and time by undervolting, decreasing gpu clock speeds, using low power plans, why not just use the laptop to its full extent?

You're really not sacrificing anything by undervolting the CPU. As for the GPUs, those found on T4x series are ancient enough to perform poorly even at full clocks, so the loss from underclocking is hardly noticeable in my experience.

Parts are abundant and cheap if something does goes wrong.

True.

[dr_st]

Sorry but I disagree. It you (theterminator93) want to prolong the life of this T42p, you should avoid stressing its GPU. I had a 14.1" T42 that worked fine for 3 years until I turned it into a "watch movies" laptop. Within a couple months, the GPU crapped out. It could have been a fluke, but I believe it wasn't.

1. Honestly, not sure watching movies stresses these ancient GPUs more than displaying a static desktop. I am not convinced they in any way assist decoding of most modern codecs.
2. May have been a coincidence after all. My old T42 2373-F7G, which is now 9 years old, spent a long portion of its life as a "watch movies" laptop (for my sister). No GPU issues have been observed.
3. What's the point in prolonging the life of a machine if you don't use it? As a collectible to display on a museum stand? If so, it hardly matters if it works at all.

[brchan]

I agree that undervolting does not really affect performance, but it does affect stability, though only when done too far. As far as GPU clocks go, the "battery" clocks profile caused many webpages to lag while scrolling using my T43 with X300 gpu (and to a lesser extent "balanced" profile). Maybe this would be different for the higher end FireGL cards in the T4x line?

[shawross]

Wouldn't the GPU work harder on a higher resolution screen? If this was the case then an XGA screen would probably reduce GPU stress just for playing movies. If that is what you are looking for. Although I can attest T4x's even with XGA's still can run hot and the above mentioned Undervolting and powerplay settings are a must IMHO.

[ajkula66]

Wouldn't the GPU work harder on a higher resolution screen? If this was the case then an XGA screen would probably reduce GPU stress just for playing movies.

The problem here is twofold:

a) XGA panels are not IPS and

b) T4x units with XGA panels *mostly* shipped with Radeon 7500 GPU which is quite weak, and gets no cooling from the "short" heatsink.

[theterminator93]

Great insights everyone, keep 'em coming.

I'm very particular about the core temperatures on all my machines, quite possibly a characteristic I acquired with my T61p and its defective nVidia Quadro FX570m. I actively use and manage TPFanControl to ensure all my systems stay as cool as possible using custom "Smart" fan schedules. I'm usually comfortable with (and set fan schedules to achieve) idle temps in the 50s and loaded temps in the low-mid 60s; once temps get into the mid-high 60s I start looking for ways to enhance cooling.

I've used RMClock in the past to undervolt CPUs, but have lost licensing information and haven't been doing this since then.

Ultimately I think I'm going to load Windows 7 on this unit. I'll be observing temperatures during the various activities it's going to be used for, then decide how best to optimize any situations that I encounter which exhibit temperatures I am uncomfortable seeing. This won't be my workhorse (that's what my T420 and T61p are for), but it will definitely be used.

[Norway Pad]

When undervolting is brought up, what software do you guys use for this. I see NHC and IBM ECW mentioned, but NHC doesn't support 64-bit, and IBM ECW is no where to be found. NHC 32-bit will however be sufficient for a T43, though.

I haven't done this for years, so would like to play around with it again. The T43p could be a good test bed for it, and later a T61 project where undervolting is a must.

[ajkula66]

I see NHC and IBM ECW mentioned, but NHC doesn't support 64-bit, and IBM ECW is no where to be found. NHC 32-bit will however be sufficient for a T43, though.

IBM ECW is right here: http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=105203

On my T43pSF I use NHC, though. I *might* decide to play with RM Clock on my T61 and X301 when I find some time to spare...

[RealBlackStuff]

Careful!
This thread is about a T42/p, which (same as T43/p) can NOT run a 64-bit OS, only 32-bit!
And IBM ECW can be found in our Utility Work Area forum: http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=105203

[Norway Pad]

Thanks!

Just for the record, the 64bit will be for other projects it needed.

[sdfox7]

Just wanted to say that I stream Netflix and watch Flash video on my 12-year-old T40 with no problems whatsoever.

I have one of the earliest T40's with the 1.3GHz Banias processor, so any newer T41/T42/T43 with Banias or Dothan should have no issues either. My machine BIOS is 1RET34WW (1.05) from May 2003, so the manufacture date would have be from sometime around then (1RET36WW 1.07 wasn't released until June 2003).

If the GPU was being stressed I would have expected these issues to manifest while using Netflix. Either Netflix is not as demanding as I suspected, or the GPU is not as weak as I would have suspected for 32MB dedicated video.

[MisterB]

I just started an HD video test on my T42P. The video is a 720P BD rip. Playback is flawless. The GPU was at 55C when I started. With the video running full screen the GPU is at 65C and the CPU at 71C. Not temperatures that cause any worry.

Looking at process monitor, the CPU is at between 86 and 100%. The fan is holding the temperature steady at 3667 RPM.

Repeating the test with a 640X480 SD video, the CPU is between 40 and 67%. GPU is at 60C and CPU at 58C and the fan is off.

So I don't see any problem with playing movies on an IPS T42P. It looks like the CPU is working more than the GPU and even HD video doesn't send the temperature too high. As long as the fan is working and the heat sinks are installed right, video is no problem at all.

[theterminator93]

I guess it all depends on the video codec and drivers, whether they decompress then render the frames on the GPU or CPU. Either way, I tend to put the fan into hysteresis over 65C to keep things cool.

[axur-delmeria]

I guess it all depends on the video codec and drivers, whether they decompress then render the frames on the GPU or CPU

GPU-based H.264 video decoding started with the Radeon HD 2400 and Geforce 8000 series. Older laptops such as the T42p certainly don't have them.

But having a dedicated GPU generally helps compared to using integrated graphics. Integrated graphics leech some memory bandwidth from the northbridge and occasionally some CPU time as well.

[theterminator93]

Got the machine this last Monday and threw a spare 40G HDD and Windows 7 on it to get it running. Yesterday I popped it open to put my 2GB and 2G P-M into it and pleasantly saw it had the revised "red dot" motherboard. The mini PCI WLAN card had been swapped out for an older B only card that occasionally drops the connection though, so I found an IBM FRU G card for $3 I'll give a try. I've got hardware for an SSD conversion on its way as well.

Web streaming through YouTube appears rather choppy in Chrome and IE (have not tried Netflix or Amazon yet)... but otherwise it handles tasks (barring the poor performance of my spare HDD) surprisingly well.

[Johan]

I've got hardware for an SSD conversion on its way as well.

Very interesting to read this - which makes me want to ask:

a) What specific "conversion kit" have you ordered; one of the old JM20330-based devices, or the ST663FD9 mSATA-to-IDE adapter, or the Addonics/Aleratec/DeLock/Kuroutoshikou mSATA-to-IDE adapter? and

b) What specific SSD have you ordered? (manufacturer and part-number?)

Myself being a long-time T42p user, I also support the suggestion already stated earlier in this thread; either get the free and highly recommended Notebook Hardware Control or get the alternative, newer and more "slim" (in terms of memory requirement) IBM_ECW : Power management tool for T4x/R5x and install it (one of them!) on your “new” T42p, to reduce heat-dissipation and thus fan-noise… I’m certain you’ll like the result!

A hint: If you wish to use the "Fn+F5" functionality (hotkeys!) to switch on/off your WLAN card (on this T42p, under Windows 7), then see this post and get yourself an "IBM 11a/b/g Wireless LAN Mini PCI Adapter II" interface.

Enjoy your "new" T42p, and please keep us posted, espacially about the SSD-progress!

Johan

[theterminator93]

The PATA to SATA bridge I ordered is indeed JMicron JM20330 based. The SSD is a Samsung MZMPA128HMFU-000H1. The 802.11b/g card is the http://www.thinkwiki.org/wiki/IBM_11a/b ... CI_Adapter.

Right now I've been trying to find an appropriate video driver/Catalyst package that works with my combo. So far the best I've been able to do is the Windows Update driver, but no CCC.

I've been using IBM ECW to undervolt and monitor, so far so good.

[theterminator93]

SSD conversion was a cinch and went flawlessly; vastly improved performance overall. Total cost for the upgrade was less than $60. Performance - even through the PATA bus - is good (roughly 75 MB/s sequential read/write and 20-30 MB/s 4K read/write, depending on queue length).

[MisterB]

Nice to hear of the SSD conversion success. I've been looking at ngff ssds with a 2.5 PATA adapter. I've got my 770X on a 2.5" PATA dual CF adapter with 8gb and 12gb CF cards in it. My T40 and T42P are next in line for an SSD conversion and msata or ngff look like the way to go.

No desire at all to put anything other than XP on the T42P I'm using to post this. A single core processor and 2gb max memory keep me from going there. It is having a happy retirement as my forum computer. Nothing like an IBM Thinkpad keyboard for typing. I replaced the original one with a brand new one when I got it. I recently did the same for my T40 and it almost feels brand new with a new keyboard and palm rest.