Lenovo Product Ownership Assessment Survey

[JaneL]

Read about it here:

http://forums.lenovo.com/t5/Community-S ... -p/2050493

Do it here:

http://lenovo.fluidsurveys.com/s/Produc ... hipForums/

[kony]

Filled for T430. In the additional information field I wrote:

In general I very much fancy this laptop and the software. I don't use touchpad, but I love the trackpad and the thinklight that lets me not only write on keyboard but also light a sheet of paper nearby to quickly take notes. I'm really happy with the Express Card too, as it lets me to connect a desktop GPU through an adapter. I only wish your software would run on Linux too, not just Windows, because it's really useful and open-source alternatives are a bit inferior. My only grievances are: Rather flexible screen lid (would much prefer it to be more rugged) and a disappointing keyboard quality (after just one year of moderate use, one of the keys fell off and I had to use glue to stick it back).

[rumbero]

Filled for a hybrid T60/T61 aka Other/Frankenpad. Guerilla tactics? Yes!

[Mark@Lenovo]

rumbero,

Thanks for taking the survey - I think we need to hear what our customers want.

Based on forum conversation, one of the most widely discussed aspects of systems today is the display. Did any of your Frankenpad mods involving swaping the LCD from a different model?

Thanks all for taking the survey - please keep the feedback coming.

Mark

[Puppy]

Based on forum conversation, one of the most widely discussed aspects of systems today is the display.

Yes. And Lenovo still have substantial issues to deliver them in adequate quality of price tag:

- TN displays are unacceptable in workstation models, ergonomic FHD resolution have no IPS option
- 15.6" IPS "hi-res" display option have low 3K resolution only
- IPS displays in X220 models and later made by LG suffers from image retention
- 3:2 aspect ratio would by much appropriate

Filled for ThinkPad 8 tablet since I am unable to use any of post .20 ThinkPad series because lack of 7-row keyboard layout.

[theterminator93]

I sent my own survey in a while ago, responding with my strong preferences to "classic" style 7-row, non-island style keyboards and trackpoint systems (like the xx20 style systems from 2011 and older) after having set up a batch of new T440s for work. Yes, having spectacular display options will attract buyers like me - but the real attraction that will entice me into new releases is a return to the "roots" design of the ThinkPad. Something done by replacing the current keyboard/trackpoint in future designs or by releasing a new product line/subline that allows these designs to be sold again. For my personal tastes that means the newest TP I'll ever own is one of the W/Tx20 series. As I said in the survey, paraphrasing - "Let the ThinkPad be a ThinkPad, let the MacBook be a MacBook, let the ProBook be a ProBook."

Perhaps a far fetched hope for people like me, but feedback was requested, and has been thusly given.

[Norway Pad]

I just did the survey, but I started out with filling in the serial number of my newly purchased Tablet 2, which (of course) made the survey ask questions related only to the Tablet. My feedback on the Tablet was good though, as I really like this little thing.

@Mark: For what it's worth, I did a Frankenpad mod, just to get a 'powerful' 4:3 machine, in order to keep it going as long as possible before the hardware becomes outdated. And I installed an IPS UXGA panel. It's probably unrealistic to hope that Lenovo will be making a machine like that again, but the number of Frankenpad mods is a sure sign that many of us love our traditional 4:3 machines with these high resolution IPS panels.

[pianowizard]

Mark@Lenovo,

I think it's worthwhile for Lenovo to try the following experiment for two to three years. Build a Thinkpad Classic model, just one model, that has most of the features lots of Thinkpad veterans have been asking for:

Taller than 16:9
IPS panel
7-row non-chiclet keyboard with a good amount of key travel, and the same layout as the T4*
External designs similar to the T4* generation (which many of us consider the prettiest)
Thin display bezels
Easy to open up for upgrades and repairs
Mechanical buttons for BOTH the touchpad and the trackpoint
Etc. etc.

Make it intermediate in size and weight, say 14.1" and 4.0 lbs. Use a screen with a reasonably high but not super high pixel density. How about 14.1" 1920x1280, which corresponds to 163.66 DPI? Many people including myself can handle that fairly easily, while those who are used to lower pixel densities can just rescale slightly. "Retina" resolutions that require extreme scaling can be very problematic.

Certain unusually vocal users have been begging for 4:3 screens and the elimination of the touchpad, but I caution against following these requests. I think a good compromise is 3:2 (such as the 1920x1280 I suggested above), and making the touchpad as small as the ones on the T4*. People who REALLY know how to use the touchpad will tell you that there's no need to make super-large touchpads.

If "Thinkpad Classic 1" isn't a commercial success, don't give up yet. Ask us for feedback again, and give "Thinkpad Classic 2" a try.

[brchan]

I think the easiest way would be to reproduce the T60 14.1" and 15" models with the following improvements:

1. Fix the cracking frame near the left hinge/vga port.
2. Eliminate the wobbly hinge problem.
3. Stronger LCD lid.
4. High-nit IPS screen options on all models
5. Modern hardware like full voltage skylake processors and discrete GPUs
6. Update with modern ports
7. Keep everything else nearly the same or maybe some minor cosmetic updates.

[Norway Pad]

As this thread turned into specific suggestions for a "Retro" / "Classic" model, I would say that many of the ideas given above pretty much reflects my ideas around such a model, should it ever happen. I have often said that my dream machine would be a 600X with modern internals, but fact is that such a bulky (by modern standards) machine might be of interest to a dozen die hard enthusiasts, nothing more. So make sure that modern design ideals and a classic perspective go hand in hand on a project like this. If I ever see a Thinkpad Classic, I would be happy even if it didn't meet my ideals fully. The fact that it could survive in the market has some importance too, so we know it won't be just an exclusive one-off that's immidiately discontinued only to never be seen again.

After all, we don't know what the IBM Thinkpad anno 2015 would have looked like if IBM had still owned the brand. The closest person to know the answer to that question might be your own David Hill.

[MrMaguire]

As long as we're talking about classic ThinkPad ideas. Mine would be a T4x with modern internals. Just like a T50, only an official product.

Unfortunately if the T4x bodies were to be put back into production, I can see the quality not being anywhere near as good as it was 10 years ago.

[brchan]

The T4x bodies look the best, but they have a bit of chassis flex, especially near the palmrest area. This would be solved if they made the base cover, palmrest/palmrest bezel out of magnesium alloy. That I would love to see.

[Ibthink]

Isn´t the T4x series famous for flexing? T6x is a much more solid base from my point of view when it comes to robustness/construction (yes, discounting the breaking structure frame of the T60^^).

So make sure that modern design ideals and a classic perspective go hand in hand on a project like this. If I ever see a Thinkpad Classic, I would be happy even if it didn't meet my ideals fully. The fact that it could survive in the market has some importance too, so we know it won't be just an exclusive one-off that's immidiately discontinued only to never be seen again.

I totally agree with that. If such a model would be made, it should reflect Classic ThinkPad attributes without looking dated.

[MrMaguire]

I'm not sure if I subscribe to the idea that flexing is a huge issue, or at least can be attributed to GPU failure. A magnesium alloy palmrest and base would be nice, but then there's the potential for them to conduct heat from the system and make the laptop uncomfortably warm.

Just my two cents.

[pianowizard]

As this thread turned into specific suggestions for a "Retro" / "Classic" model....

I understood that this thread was really about suggestions for improving the existing Thinkpad lines. But the truth is, many if not most of us old-school Thinkpad fans' demands are so incompatible with current laptop design trends that it's extremely unlikely Lenovo would be willing to incorporate them into current Thinkpads. IMO, our best tactic is to try to persuade Lenovo to set aside a retro/classic model just for people like us. The demand for such a laptop is indeed small, but keep in mind that Lenovo would be the only manufacturer making such a laptop. In the complete absence of competition, the Thinkpad Classic could turn out to be extremely profitable. Lenovo is now a big enough company to try this kind of experiment once in a while.

The T4x bodies look the best, but they have a bit of chassis flex, especially near the palmrest area.

I agree. The T4* was designed in the early 2000s and laptop engineers have learnd a lot since then. I am NOT asking Lenovo to merely reuse the T4*'s shell. I want something that looks similar (though not identical), but has less flex and weighs about 1.5 lbs less. With today's technologies, it shouldn't be hard to make a 4.0-lb, 14.1-inch, 3:2 laptop as durable as the 600X. Panasonic's toughest Y series Toughbook is the CF-Y5, which has 14.1" SXGA+ and an integrated optical drive. It was designed 10 years ago, and yet its chassis is super strong, and the entire laptop weighs only 3.4 lbs.

[Norway Pad]

But the truth is, many if not most of us old-school Thinkpad fans' demands are so incompatible with current laptop design trends that it's extremely unlikely Lenovo would be willing to incorporate them into current Thinkpads. IMO, our best tactic is to try to persuade Lenovo to set aside a retro/classic model just for people like us.

Very very true. That's why I was happy to follow up on this one.

The demand for such a laptop is indeed small, but keep in mind that Lenovo would be the only manufacturer making such a laptop. In the complete absence of competition, the Thinkpad Classic could turn out to be extremely profitable.

Let's indeed hope that could turn out to be the case. As mentioned above, in order to achieve this, it's important to keep the classic and recognizeable Thinkpad attributes without looking dated.

[FryPpy]

+1 to ThinkPad classic. But this topic about survey.
I have noticed this topic 2 weeks ago and wanted to leave my survey. But can't. The survey beginning with words that it is for Lenovo customers (who buy something from Lenovo not very long ago). And this makes me out of survey. Only one ThinkPad that i have bought from Lenovo was T60. But T60 series is absent in this survey. T410 i have can be used for survey but i bought it second hand (and it even was made not for my country - that can be understood from S/B MTM) and i don't know it well to post all good and bad sides of it into survey.
All i want to write - is what written here - bring back old school ThinkPads. 7 row classic keyboard with trackpoint buttons and good IPS screens with 4:3 - 16:10 ratio. Nothing less but nothing more.