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coolcat37
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Re: Thinkpadders Rejoice

#271 Post by coolcat37 » Thu Jul 09, 2015 4:55 am

bhtooefr wrote:Found elsewhere, the ThinkPad "Ultra Classic" 780ZXL+:

http://i.imgur.com/BZ4hQZi.png

:lol:
Anyone knows if this is a fake or real lenovo slide?

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Re: Thinkpadders Rejoice (*LARGE PICS*)

#272 Post by RealBlackStuff » Thu Jul 09, 2015 5:03 am

What, you don't think this is real?

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Re: Thinkpadders Rejoice (*LARGE PICS*)

#273 Post by coolcat37 » Thu Jul 09, 2015 5:09 am

RealBlackStuff wrote:What, you don't think this is real?
No idea what to think really. Do you think it's a slide from a ppt presentation over at lenovo's ?

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Re: Thinkpadders Rejoice (*LARGE PICS*)

#274 Post by RealBlackStuff » Thu Jul 09, 2015 5:49 am

No offense meant, but I've read and heard many jokes about Belgians over the years.
One more proof that they are not made in vain!
The king of Belgium is fed up that the Dutch make jokes about how dumb Belgians are. He goes to King Willem, of the Netherlands, and demands that the Dutch should do something stupid, so that the Belgians can laugh at the Dutch. Willem wants to maintain good relations so he says; "meh, we will build a bridge in the Sahara". The king of Belgium approves and so it happens; the Dutch build a bridge in the desert.

They became the laughing stock of the world. The king of Belgium is pleased and says to king Willem:"Ha ha that was funny, you can remove the bridge."

King Willem responds: "We can't, there are Belgians on the bridge trying to fish."
Of course it's not real!

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Re: Thinkpadders Rejoice (*LARGE PICS*)

#275 Post by jcvjcvjcvjcv » Thu Jul 09, 2015 7:55 am

pianowizard wrote:
jcvjcvjcvjcv wrote:Don't make silly demands. Just a *20 series with current hardware and 16:10 will do.
Why is it silly to petition for a 3:2 screen? There are already two laptop-sized 3:2 panels to pick from: 12.0" 2160x1400 made for the Surface Pro 3, and 12.85" 2560x1700 made for the Chromebook Pixel. And like exTPfan said above, there might be a 14.0" 3:2 panel soon.
I didn't mean that regarding the 3:2, but regarding "full pc keyboard" and that stuff.
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Re: Thinkpadders Rejoice (*LARGE PICS*)

#276 Post by Sleepy664 » Thu Jul 09, 2015 9:25 am

600X wrote:
Sleepy664 wrote:probably leaving more space inside for...let's say some JBL speakers from the Y series – there is no reason a business class notebook should sound badly.
I agree and I have pledged for this before. However, I think lenovo should partner with Dynaudio instead, because they have delivered some impressive results on MSI notebooks. But then of course, pretty much anything would be better than what ThinkPads currently have.
I figured that if Lenovo is already cooperating with JBL, going with them would be the obvious choice. I think there are some legal agreements at place because MSI wouldn't be happy if some other brand was using Dynaudio :(

bit_twiddler wrote:Dell made a decision with their workstation-class laptops (if there really is such
a thing) to go for structural integrity, whereas Lenovo and Toshiba decided to go
for lighter weight. The same goes for different fans for the CPU and GPU.
To me it seems that Lenovo went with the cheapest option. But it is true that magnesium has double the density over ABS plastic. On the other hand – I dont think many people carry around 15 or 17" laptops. And if they do, they would benefit from better structural integrity. I'm sure I would :?

Maybe one CPU/GPU cooler would be enough...if it was just a bit more powerful.

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Re: Thinkpadders Rejoice (*LARGE PICS*)

#277 Post by Ibthink » Thu Jul 09, 2015 10:49 am

Sleepy664 wrote:Palmrest should be made without the large hole where the keyboard goes – that would eliminate keyboard flex (see how it is done on Dell M4800: http://img2.parts-people.com/products/30X9Va.JPG).

The already have done that with the current Tx50 and the predecessor Tx40 generation. Take a look at the W550s palmrest: http://abload.de/img/wp_20150318_17_50_19_ajjwk.jpg

This is design is consistent for the T & W series (X is slightly different due to size constraints...).
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Re: Thinkpadders Rejoice (*LARGE PICS*)

#278 Post by Sleepy664 » Thu Jul 09, 2015 11:06 am

Ibthink wrote:
Sleepy664 wrote:Palmrest should be made without the large hole where the keyboard goes – that would eliminate keyboard flex (see how it is done on Dell M4800: http://img2.parts-people.com/products/30X9Va.JPG).

The already have done that with the current Tx50 and the predecessor Tx40 generation. Take a look at the W550s palmrest: http://abload.de/img/wp_20150318_17_50_19_ajjwk.jpg

This is design is consistent for the T & W series (X is slightly different due to size constraints...).


Well...almost. That is still a palmrest with a large hole and a rollcage underneath. But it is quite similar to what I had on my mind.

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Re: Thinkpadders Rejoice (*LARGE PICS*)

#279 Post by Ibthink » Thu Jul 09, 2015 1:19 pm

The roll-cage is part of the palmrest with these models [T440(s), T450(s), T550, W550s]. The Magnesium is directly bonded to the plastic part of the palmrest, thus creating one uniform, stronger part.

This is different from older ThinkPads like T420, T60, W520, or even a T440p, where the palmrest comes on top of the roll-cage, with no bonding, where Flexing is more of a problem...
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Re: Thinkpadders Rejoice (*LARGE PICS*)

#280 Post by Sleepy664 » Thu Jul 09, 2015 2:12 pm

OK, so a least they've already implemented some of my ideas :D

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Re: Thinkpadders Rejoice

#281 Post by Nigellus » Thu Jul 09, 2015 8:23 pm

exTPfan wrote:OK, so it's just more talk. Nothing to get excited about.

That was my reaction. On of you guys posted this on the facebook group so it showed up on my news feed. I got really excited when I saw the pictures, especially the ThinkLights and the keyboard. The color ThinkPad logo is doing something for me as well.

If Lenovo is listening, I want a modern version of a 600E. With a Think Light. Please.
T420 i5-2520M 2.50GHz 4 GB RAM 64-bit OS WIN7pro SP1

T60 1951-46U Intel Core Duo 1.83GHz 1 GB RAM 60 GB XPpro

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Computers do exactly what you tell them at amazing speeds; this can be bad if what you told them wasn't what you had in mind.

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Re: Thinkpadders Rejoice (*LARGE PICS*)

#282 Post by crashnburn » Fri Jul 10, 2015 2:07 am

2) Construction - external: Get rid of all plastic covers. When you hold both EliteBook and ThinkPad in your hands, guess which one feels the cheaper and which flexes the most? Old ThinkPads often had their covers made of magnesium and it would be nice to have it back. Palmrest should be made without the large hole where the keyboard goes – that would eliminate keyboard flex (see how it is done on Dell M4800: http://img2.parts-people.com/products/30X9Va.JPG). Powerful ThinkLight is a must.
Probably the reason why MS went with Magnesium (instead of Apples fav Aluminium) for the SPro 3
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Re: Thinkpadders Rejoice (*LARGE PICS*)

#283 Post by exTPfan » Fri Jul 10, 2015 5:50 am

2Q15
16:10 laptops up 16% over a year earlier.
16:9 laptops down 12%.
Perhaps MS will get frustrated, and build its own 3:2 laptop (as it did with tablets).
http://www.notebookcheck.net/The-PC-mar ... 204.0.html
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Re: Thinkpadders Rejoice (*LARGE PICS*)

#284 Post by bhtooefr » Fri Jul 10, 2015 7:13 am

Let's be fair, Apple is also... different, and not all of their laptops are 16:10 - the MacBook Air 11" is 16:9 (1366x768).
Current: X201 (i5-540M, 8 GiB, 160 GB), 365XD (120 MHz, 72 MiB, 6.4 GB, 4x CD-ROM, 10.4" TFT)
Past: T61p 15.0" QXGA, T60p 15.0" QXGA, X61 Tablet SXGA+, R51e 14.1" XGA, X21

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Re: Thinkpadders Rejoice (*LARGE PICS*)

#285 Post by bgx » Fri Jul 10, 2015 8:10 am

the poll is up.
http://youropinioncounts.lenovo.com/s/R ... d/survey1/

i ve submited my 2cents.

-Keyboard layout: Chicklet vs non chicklet is not a real problem, but the layout is. I need home/end/page up/page down in a cluster. I need direct F(unction) keys. I very much want dedicated volume buttons.
-No trackpoint button on the *4* serie. (but you came back to reason on the *5*)!
-Aspect: we do not want big bezel around the screen, we do not want big 'bezel'(?) around the keyboard. If there is space, use it for something. Look at X4x/X6x. Minimal bezel looks great (look at DELL inifinscreen).
-Screen: (goes with the previous): with going to 16/9, you not only reduce the vertical space needed for those who do (coding, content creation, etc) but you also creat empty bezel space. Go to 4:3 or 3:2. 16:10 is acceptable but not best.
- Robustness and servicability. 2 memory channels, at least 1 replaceable/extendable, replacable battery. I keep my thinkpad long

voted thinkpad 600 (no X40 available - the best ofr me, but really close in term of bezel size/keyboard)

Please participate!

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Re: Thinkpadders Rejoice (*LARGE PICS*)

#286 Post by bgx » Fri Jul 10, 2015 8:16 am

exTPfan wrote:2Q15
16:10 laptops up 16% over a year earlier.
16:9 laptops down 12%.
Perhaps MS will get frustrated, and build its own 3:2 laptop (as it did with tablets).
http://www.notebookcheck.net/The-PC-mar ... 204.0.html

interesting, but where did u find this figures? in ur link i only get the market share of brands...

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Re: Thinkpadders Rejoice (*LARGE PICS*)

#287 Post by bhtooefr » Fri Jul 10, 2015 8:22 am

For laptops, Apple makes five models - four of them (in order of size, MacBook, MacBook Air 13", MacBook Pro 13", and MacBook Pro 15") are 16:10, one is 16:9 (MacBook Air 11").

Everyone else in that list exclusively makes 16:9 laptops (tablets aren't counted).

But, claiming that Apple's growth in sales against a decline in the rest of industry is due to aspect ratio is really, really weak, IMO.
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Re: Thinkpadders Rejoice (*LARGE PICS*)

#288 Post by lophiomys » Fri Jul 10, 2015 8:33 am

bhtooefr wrote:For laptops, Apple makes five models - four of them (in order of size, MacBook, MacBook Air 13", MacBook Pro 13", and MacBook Pro 15") are 16:10, one is 16:9 (MacBook Air 11").

Everyone else in that list exclusively makes 16:9 laptops (tablets aren't counted).

But, claiming that Apple's growth in sales against a decline in the rest of industry is due to aspect ratio is really, really weak, IMO.
That might be right - statistically -, but
in my personal case, the only purchase besides Classic 4:3 Thinkpads, was one 16:10 MacBookPro, because it had a decent screen, reasonable performance, a stable operating system and good build quality.
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Re: Thinkpadders Rejoice (*LARGE PICS*)

#289 Post by bhtooefr » Fri Jul 10, 2015 8:37 am

It's also worth noting that I went to a MacBook Pro 15" for the screen (and I miss TrackPoints every time I use that machine), but not because it was 16:10, but rather it was the only laptop in existence, at the time, that was an upgrade over my frankensteined QXGA T61p.
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Re: Thinkpadders Rejoice (*LARGE PICS*)

#290 Post by bgx » Fri Jul 10, 2015 8:40 am

The vast majority of people buy laptop mostly for content consumption, still. They are happy with 16/9 ratio, they dont use the keyboard much, they dont care. The overall PC market is not very important regarding the maket for TP possible buyers. TP role should not be to tackle the desires of the whole market. Lenovo has a lot of other brands for that, for the best. Now they should focus to do TP machine for buisness, and there are still a big demand for that - but also particular needs.

http://icharts.net/chartchannel/top-6-w ... _mhnwzs5nc

looking at this charts over a year,

you can see apple was more flat the 2 previous Quarters.
there are many factors to take into consideration.
Win10 coming very soon.
new Macbook designs out few months ago.
a slight but constant increase of OS X.

Aspect ratio is probably outside the reason for that.
Now, if we have 2 comparable machines same vendor same ad, with 2 different aspect ratio, then we can start comparing.
For thinkpads, i have a feeling that it would clearly make an impact and would be a clear selling point and differenciation factor. People who want only to watch movie do not get a TP anyway.

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Re: Thinkpadders Rejoice (*LARGE PICS*)

#291 Post by jcvjcvjcvjcv » Fri Jul 10, 2015 7:05 pm

bgx wrote:the poll is up.
http://youropinioncounts.lenovo.com/s/R ... d/survey1/

i ve submited my 2cents.

-Keyboard layout: Chicklet vs non chicklet is not a real problem, but the layout is. I need home/end/page up/page down in a cluster. I need direct F(unction) keys. I very much want dedicated volume buttons.
It kinda is when they also make them flat. Now Lenovo isn't the worst in that, but some HP's have completely flat keys. Impossible to feel where on the key you hit it.
bgx wrote: -No trackpoint button on the *4* serie. (but you came back to reason on the *5*)!
-Aspect: we do not want big bezel around the screen, we do not want big 'bezel'(?) around the keyboard. If there is space, use it for something. Look at X4x/X6x. Minimal bezel looks great (look at DELL inifinscreen).
-Screen: (goes with the previous): with going to 16/9, you not only reduce the vertical space needed for those who do (coding, content creation, etc) but you also creat empty bezel space. Go to 4:3 or 3:2. 16:10 is acceptable but not best.
- Robustness and servicability. 2 memory channels, at least 1 replaceable/extendable, replacable battery. I keep my thinkpad long

voted thinkpad 600 (no X40 available - the best ofr me, but really close in term of bezel size/keyboard)

Please participate!
I did participate just now. But some questions are tricky, as are most of these polls. The one on keyboard illumination; options were
()Thinklight
()Backlit keyboard
()Both

Then "How strong is your preference".

I clicked the first option, for Thinklight. I have no need or want for a backlit keyboard, but if that's what it takes to sell some more and make it cheaper over-all, I'm all for it. Just as long as the Thinklight is still there :P
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Re: Thinkpadders Rejoice (*LARGE PICS*)

#292 Post by Nigellus » Fri Jul 10, 2015 8:15 pm

Well, I put in my preferences:

7 row keyboard, decent travel in the keys, ThinkLight, TrackPoint only (I have absolutely no use for touchpads).
T420 i5-2520M 2.50GHz 4 GB RAM 64-bit OS WIN7pro SP1

T60 1951-46U Intel Core Duo 1.83GHz 1 GB RAM 60 GB XPpro

TP 600E 2645 PII 366MHZ 160MB RAM 37.2GB WIN98SE

Computers do exactly what you tell them at amazing speeds; this can be bad if what you told them wasn't what you had in mind.

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Re: Thinkpadders Rejoice (*LARGE PICS*)

#293 Post by brchan » Fri Jul 10, 2015 8:24 pm

I wished they gave the option of the long key travel on the 600 thinkpads. Remaking a 600 keyboard for new thinkpads would be awesome, even if it makes the unit thicker.
Current Thinkpads: W530 (functional classic keyboard mod), X301, T61, T60, T43, A31p, T23, 600X, 770
Other: mk5 Toughbook cf-19, mk1 Toughbook cf-53

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Re: Thinkpadders Rejoice (*LARGE PICS*)

#294 Post by Nigellus » Fri Jul 10, 2015 8:41 pm

brchan wrote:I wished they gave the option of the long key travel on the 600 thinkpads. Remaking a 600 keyboard for new thinkpads would be awesome, even if it makes the unit thicker.
Agreed.
T420 i5-2520M 2.50GHz 4 GB RAM 64-bit OS WIN7pro SP1

T60 1951-46U Intel Core Duo 1.83GHz 1 GB RAM 60 GB XPpro

TP 600E 2645 PII 366MHZ 160MB RAM 37.2GB WIN98SE

Computers do exactly what you tell them at amazing speeds; this can be bad if what you told them wasn't what you had in mind.

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Re: Thinkpadders Rejoice (*LARGE PICS*)

#295 Post by ajkula66 » Fri Jul 10, 2015 9:30 pm

brchan wrote:I wished they gave the option of the long key travel on the 600 thinkpads. Remaking a 600 keyboard for new thinkpads would be awesome, even if it makes the unit thicker.
While I don't disagree with you in principle, think about the following: how many younger folk actually remember what a 600-series keyboard felt like? Pretty much everyone recalls what it was on the *20 series, and quite a few people remember *60 generation well. Older than that...not so much.
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Re: Thinkpadders Rejoice (*LARGE PICS*)

#296 Post by bhtooefr » Fri Jul 10, 2015 9:53 pm

I know I've used a 600X some time, but I can't for the life of me remember what it felt like.

How much travel did it have, anyway? The patent for an unreleased ThinkPad buckling spring implementation mentions the specs on the Model M6 as used in the original ThinkPad keyboards, as the "exemplary prior art low profile rubber dome keyswitch", and travel is 2.5 mm there, same as most (all?) of the letter-series pre-island ThinkPad keyboards.

Edit: Looks like the 600 is a fairly ordinary scissor-stabilized rubber dome.
Current: X201 (i5-540M, 8 GiB, 160 GB), 365XD (120 MHz, 72 MiB, 6.4 GB, 4x CD-ROM, 10.4" TFT)
Past: T61p 15.0" QXGA, T60p 15.0" QXGA, X61 Tablet SXGA+, R51e 14.1" XGA, X21

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Re: Thinkpadders Rejoice (*LARGE PICS*)

#297 Post by ajkula66 » Fri Jul 10, 2015 10:17 pm

bhtooefr wrote:I know I've used a 600X some time, but I can't for the life of me remember what it felt like.
Thanks for making my point clearer... :thumbs-UP:
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Re: Thinkpadders Rejoice (*LARGE PICS*)

#298 Post by 600X » Sat Jul 11, 2015 2:58 am

The 600X was my first ThinkPad. I got it 4 years ago when I was 15. Young people can enjoy old ThinkPads as well. Since I love the 600X so much (my favorite ThinkPad after all), I hung on to it and eventually got myself a 850MHz unit. I still treasure it until today and use it occasionally. Yes, the keyboard is the most fantastic thing I've ever experienced on a ThinkPad, it's kind of like a mixture of the NMB and Chicony keyboard on the T60, with a shot of A31p and the solid backplate of a desktop keyboard.

However, I think it would be a mistake to try to copy the 600 keyboard. Lenovo already did that with the X300. And while the X300 has an excellent keyboard, it doesn't come close to the 600 at all. Judging from this attempt, Lenovo simply isn't able to recreate the 600 keyboard feeling.
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Re: Thinkpadders Rejoice (*LARGE PICS*)

#299 Post by mydreamlaptop » Sun Jul 12, 2015 12:12 am

pianowizard wrote:http://s8.postimg.org/5po4j7foz/thinkpad024.png

It looks great, especially since I never use the numpad and so I would just toss it (or not buy it in the first place). I have always typed faster on the number row anyway. Not sure how many numpad users would like it though.
Thanks! The versatility of the ultrabay allows numpad users to have a full size numpad while those who don't can just use the bay for something else.

pianowizard wrote:For those of you who have never seen a 3:2 screen, doesn't it look much taller than 16:9 or even 16:10? If you like tallscreens, don't settle for 16:10!
Nope, not gonna settle for 16:10. Actually I'd prefer 5:4 and consider 4:3 a compromise and 3:2 an even farther compromise. But settling on 4:3 because more people seem to like that (wonder "are we going to Abilene?")

bhtooefr wrote:OK, that, I kinda like, actually. However, it'd require a custom LCD - in 3:2, the only panels I'm aware of are the 10.8" 1920x1280 panel in the Surface 3, the 12.0" 2160x1440 panel in the Surface Pro 3, the 12.85" 2560x1700 (3:2ish) panel in the Chromebook Pixel, and the 20.0" 3840x2560 panel in the Panasonic Toughpad 4K.
It has been done, the technology exists. Just not in the right size and finish ideal for laptops. Since pretty much anything other than 16:9 would require custom LCD anyway I don't consider this a valid reason to avoid creating a taller screen.

bhtooefr wrote:I still prefer my concept of cramming a 13.3" 16:10 2560x1600 panel into a (2 mm wider) X201-sized chassis (small-bezeled ThinkPads were a thing in the past - X4x/X6x had 22 mm total bezel horizontally (246 mm LCD, 268 mm chassis), T2x/T30 had 17 mm total bezel horizontally (287 mm LCD, 304 mm chassis), and my idea would have 11 mm total bezel - aggressive, but doable), but that's pretty nice.
Your concept is pretty nice too. Just know that I'm shooting for the ideal and wouldn't enjoy a 13.3” 16:10 screen which is only 7” tall. I'd prefer a 4:3 screen that fits the width of the keyboard as closely as possible, something like this:
- 11.25” (286mm) wide “Classic” keyboard (ignoring for now any controversies about Esc/F1/Ins/Del layout). Add 11mm bezel for 297mm total width.
- 2560x1920 screen, width matches keyboard width at 286mm. 4:3 brings usable screen height up to 8.4” (214mm). Diagonal is now 14” (357mm). 228ppi.

bhtooefr wrote:Granted, I suspect most people would prefer the layout that the 15" MBPR uses, with big speakers next to the keyboard. Either that, or the 15.6" 16:9 formula that many laptops nowadays follow, with a full numpad next to the keyboard (but that doesn't even fit in 15.4" 16:10, unless you make the numpad narrower, or pull some out of the main keyboard (which breaks it for Japanese layouts)).
Who cares what “most people” prefer, trying to be visually attractive to the average consumer is what caused the whole situation with chiclets/removal/rearrangement of keys. Keyboards should be designed for efficiency, and much of that efficiency comes from standardization.
The 15.6" 16:9 formula you're referring to doesn't preserve the navigation cluster (Ins/Del/Home/End/PgUp/Dn) directly above the arrows. They just put them... wherever. This makes editing actions dependent on those keys in conjunction with the arrows much less efficient than would be possible on the full-size PC keyboard.
At least the “Classic” ThinkPad keyboard kept them in the same arrangement, though they were shrunken and separated from the arrow keys. And they were still lined up so the same 3 fingers still can press the same keys.
This made sense in the original ThinkPads when laptops were constrained in width due to the limitations of LCD screen manufacturing technology. To minimize the slowdown in typing speed, the main part of the keyboard was kept at full size (11.25” wide) while the numpad was dropped completely (in US layout you can still type numbers using the number row) and Esc, F keys and navigation keys were shrunken and rearranged.

Utwig wrote:The best part of keyboard is that it's equal to all other keyboards
This.

Utwig wrote:I actually was carrying Thinkpad USB keyboard with me when I had to take IT exams or use other people's computers for a long time, so that I didin't have to switch to standard PC keyboard (same layout but different due to taller keys).
You're not alone, I met someone who (somewhat opposite to you) was carrying a full PC keyboard every day.

Summilux wrote:Looks sexy indeed! It would be a nice addition to the X/T-sized Classic machine.
Thanks!

MrMaguire wrote:I like it. My one complaint would be the switch for the TrackPad. I can imagine accidentally pressing it while using the TrackPoint, and that'd get annoying pretty quick.
Thanks! I'd like to reassure you my old laptop before I got the T430 had one, and you need to really press the button with deliberate pressure to actuate it. if you just hit it with the side of your thumb it doesn't move at all. Very useful to prevent spurious mouse inputs when using the keyboard in a moving vehicle.

jcvjcvjcvjcv wrote:The screen; yes, but rather 15" 2560x1700 so scaling problems aren't off the chart.
That's a good point. That's one reason why I wrote there should be an option for 2160x1440 (153ppi). 2560x1700 would make it 180ppi which IMO would likely make text illegible without scaling. Are you able to see the picture?
Original copy (png lossless)
http://s8.postimg.org/5po4j7foz/thinkpad024.png
Another copy (jpeg lossy):
https://a.disquscdn.com/uploads/mediaem ... iginal.jpg

jcvjcvjcvjcv wrote:The full PC keyboard? Are you kidding? Complaints of off-centre alphanumeric keyboard incoming...
Again, are you able to see the picture? "Centred" is a visual appearance value and that kind of thinking is what caused the whole situation with chiclets/removal/rearrangement of keys...

jcvjcvjcvjcv wrote:Utrabay numpad; sure, why not. They already had that in the past too.
Thank you! It just makes sense to bring it back now that usage of the DVD drive is becoming less.

jcvjcvjcvjcv wrote:All dedicated buttons; not going to happen, don't want it either. Somethings are just easier to keep the keyboard completely in finger's range. Like @$$! requires a combo with shift.
???

jcvjcvjcvjcv wrote:Dedicated touchpad on/off; how often would you need that?
-Whenever using the laptop in a moving vehicle
-Whenever using the laptop with keyboard only
-Whenever using the laptop with keyboard/trackpoint only
In all these cases, temporarily disabling the touchpad prevents spurious input on the touchpad and touchpad buttons from palms/shirt etc. Having a dedicated button for this purpose, conveniently located in the "valley" between the trackpoint buttons and touchpad allows quick, intuitive switching of usage. Furthermore, pure trackpoint users may turn off the touchpad entirely.
Other laptops have this button and they don't even have a trackpoint. From experience I would say it is very useful and I miss it when using my T430.

jcvjcvjcvjcv wrote:Don't make silly demands. Just a *20 series with current hardware and 16:10 will do.
Skylake clockspeeds not confirmed and 16:10 is only 11% higher than 16:9...would you really upgrade only for that?

bhtooefr wrote:Skylake integrated graphics will not output a VGA signal, only TMDS (DVI, HDMI) or DisplayPort protocols.

A VGA port can only carry analog RGB signals, and therefore won't really be a thing any more on Skylake platforms (unless a manufacturer puts a converter chip in).
Then either Intel needs to go back on that or Lenovo needs to include a reliable converter chip, because if a laptop does not have a reliable native VGA then I can't buy it.

bhtooefr wrote:A DVI port supports both analog RGB (in DVI-A or DVI-I) and TMDS (in DVI-D or DVI-I). A DVI to VGA adapter or a (very rare) DVI-A monitor simply tells the graphics controller to output a VGA signal on the DVI port, and that won't work on Skylake. A DVI-D (digital, TMDS) monitor is unaffected

An HDMI port can only carry TMDS signals, so nothing's changed there, it works exactly as it used to. An HDMI to VGA adapter will still work, because as far as the graphics controller's concerned, it's TMDS, not VGA.

DisplayPort can carry either TMDS or DisplayPort signals - a passive DisplayPort to DVI adapter tells the graphics controller to output a TMDS signal on the DisplayPort, that'll work as it used to. A DisplayPort monitor will obviously work as it used to, too. And, a DisplayPort to VGA adapter looks like a DisplayPort monitor to the controller, and that will also work as it used to.

Summary: VGA no, DVI to VGA no, HDMI to VGA yes, DisplayPort to VGA yes.
Great, more adapter woes. Might as well get a macbook.

pianowizard wrote:Why is it silly to petition for a 3:2 screen? There are already two laptop-sized 3:2 panels to pick from: 12.0" 2160x1400 made for the Surface Pro 3, and 12.85" 2560x1700 made for the Chromebook Pixel. And like exTPfan said above, there might be a 14.0" 3:2 panel soon.

There aren't many more laptop-sized 16:10 panels out there, so if asking for 3:2 is silly, asking for 16:10 is just a little less silly.

16:10 is noticeably taller than 16:9 and is therefore more useful for text-based work, but it's still a fairly small difference. 3:2 would be a significantly better upgrade.
Thanks for your support. I just want to add, I think small laptops should have 4:3 while larger ones can go 3:2 once there is "enough" vertical height (about 9" for me).

jcvjcvjcvjcv wrote:I didn't mean that regarding the 3:2, but regarding "full pc keyboard" and that stuff.
OK now I'm quite sure you were unable to view the image. If the first link doesn't work, please try the second:
Original copy (png lossless)
http://s8.postimg.org/5po4j7foz/thinkpad024.png
Another copy (jpeg lossy):
https://a.disquscdn.com/uploads/mediaem ... iginal.jpg

I hope this clears up any misunderstanding.

bgx wrote:The vast majority of people buy laptop mostly for content consumption, still. They are happy with 16/9 ratio, they dont use the keyboard much, they dont care. The overall PC market is not very important regarding the maket for TP possible buyers. TP role should not be to tackle the desires of the whole market. Lenovo has a lot of other brands for that, for the best. Now they should focus to do TP machine for buisness, and there are still a big demand for that - but also particular needs.

http://icharts.net/chartchannel/top-6-w ... _mhnwzs5nc

looking at this charts over a year,

you can see apple was more flat the 2 previous Quarters.
there are many factors to take into consideration.
Win10 coming very soon.
new Macbook designs out few months ago.
a slight but constant increase of OS X.

Aspect ratio is probably outside the reason for that.
Now, if we have 2 comparable machines same vendor same ad, with 2 different aspect ratio, then we can start comparing.
For thinkpads, i have a feeling that it would clearly make an impact and would be a clear selling point and differenciation factor. People who want only to watch movie do not get a TP anyway.
Those who don't use a keyboard much would get a tablet. If anything, the only reason to get a laptop anymore is for “work” type reasons (including students). In such case “business” features might become ever more important, in order to appeal to a shrinking pool of laptop buyers.

I agree that the conclusion is not supported by the data. There are too many confounding factors. I'd say it's Microsoft's mistake that was remaking Windows 8 as a touch oriented OS. It's like a car manufacturer seeing flat to declining car sales, and steady growth in moped/motorcycle sales. So they react by replacing the steering wheel with handlebars (mirrors, gas, & brake also moved to handlebars). Hopefully Windows 10 will get better.

bhtooefr
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Re: Thinkpadders Rejoice (*LARGE PICS*)

#300 Post by bhtooefr » Sun Jul 12, 2015 1:46 am

mydreamlaptop wrote:At least the “Classic” ThinkPad keyboard kept them in the same arrangement, though they were shrunken and separated from the arrow keys. And they were still lined up so the same 3 fingers still can press the same keys.
This made sense in the original ThinkPads when laptops were constrained in width due to the limitations of LCD screen manufacturing technology. To minimize the slowdown in typing speed, the main part of the keyboard was kept at full size (11.25” wide) while the numpad was dropped completely (in US layout you can still type numbers using the number row) and Esc, F keys and navigation keys were shrunken and rearranged.
It actually wasn't LCD manufacturing issues, it was an attempt at form factor reduction, I'm certain. Smaller displays meant it made sense to reduce the form factor, sure, but there were plenty of big machines with small displays back then:
Image

That's a PS/2 Model L40 SX. (Note the L for laptop, and remember my comments from earlier about how "notebook" was a form factor of laptop, about the size of a standard sheet of paper (IBM having used A4, because the notebooks were initially done by IBM Japan), not a synonym for laptop.)

And, IBM Japan for whatever reason wanted narrower machines - with the exception of the PS/55 Note N27sx (which was not actually a notebook, but was actually the Japanese-market version of the PS/2 CL57 SX (Color Laptop, makes sense), and had the same basic keyboard as the L40 SX), even their big desktop replacements like the 5535-S (also the first incarnation of something similar to the modern ThinkPad layout) had narrow keyboards:
Image

I think we can all agree, though, that the 5499 Online Note (IBM's first notebook in any market anywhere) keyboard looks like a terrible layout:
Image

The 5523-S, its replacement, adopted the 5535-S keyboard layout, and with two slight tweaks and the addition of the TrackPoint II, the 9552 (which is the 700/700C (and later 720/720C), and replaced the high-end of the 5523-S (the low-end being replaced by the 5523-V, which is a hybrid of ThinkPad and 5523 stuff, and IBM Japan called it a ThinkPad)) used a layout based on the 5523 keyboard.
Current: X201 (i5-540M, 8 GiB, 160 GB), 365XD (120 MHz, 72 MiB, 6.4 GB, 4x CD-ROM, 10.4" TFT)
Past: T61p 15.0" QXGA, T60p 15.0" QXGA, X61 Tablet SXGA+, R51e 14.1" XGA, X21

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