Would you buy a T43 today?

[shicky256]

I would also say yes. I've used my T43 with mSATA SSD and Debian as my only computer for two weeks now, and it works fine as a daily driver, at least for my needs. Firefox is more than fast enough, and it only takes a couple more seconds to render webpages than my desktop. Games such as Dwarf Fortress, OpenTTD, and Rollercoaster Tycoon 2 also work fine, and it even streams 720p YouTube videos smoothly (it probably would do 1080p too, but I'd have to switch out the Intel PRO/2200bg card it currently has with a better model) and plays back 1080p video fine, as long as I use mpv and youtube-dl. Of course it's an aging machine (the screen hums when the brightness isn't full, and the fan sounds like its bearings are on their last legs, but it definitely can last me a couple more years, especially with its 1400x1050 screen, which is a higher resolution than most laptops sold today.

[Kasm279]

Nope, because someone just gave me one.

[lophiomys]

Definitely yes.
I have two T43p with SATA Mod from RBS and ajkula66 as daily drivers,
basically as typewriters with a classic 7-row keyboard ( still without Windows Keys)
and a 4:3 133DPI UXGA screen, for those who are not aware of its qualities.

Besides 3x T42p, which will be cured from Flexing sometime in the future, and some T60p's for backup.

Currently awaiting a T50 Retro Thinkpad as a continuation of a trusted tradition.

[systemBuilder]

I am sorry but I have finally been weaned off of my thinkpads.

Since June I was an alpha tester of the new Toshiba Chromebook 2 with Celeron 3215U. This is a dual-CPU chromebook which does 18,000 on the Octane benchmarks. It has a 13.3" Full-HD IPS 400 nits display and 4GB of RAM and costs a measly $329.00 at retail. The 1.9 Ghz CPU is as fast as i3 CPU's from last year. This is a remarkable machine that does 3D at 25-40 fps in league of legends.

I was doing some work last night while watching Netflix in a second window when I marveled at how much I could do and see on the Full-HD display, and the chicklets backlit keyboard is better than 90% of the chicklet keyboards I have used, roughly as good as a new Thinkpad chicklets keyboard. Basically, audio and video and wireless networking and battery life are way better on this machine, only the keyboard, scratchpad, and aspect ratio are a downgrade. The scratchpad is okay if you learn to tap (and not click) it and learn the 2-finger gestures. It weighs only 3 lbs and the battery lasts all-day or all-night ~ 8 hours (4 hours for streaming video), and it has roughly the same ports ( 2 USB and HDMI and SDHC ports and built-in bluetooth) and can accept an M.2 42mm sata drive (available sizes up to 256 GB of flash.)

As a googler I don't need to buy a used $300 corp fleet castoff laptop to get MS-Office. I have used Google docs, sheets, and slides for the past 2 years and have not looked back.

So, unfortunately, no, I would not buy a new T42 or T43 today. the thought of lugging around an 8-lbs laptop to get 4.5 hours of battery life and the overall slowness (about half the speed) is not attractive any more, compared to what is available to run Linux at a $300 pricepoint.

[brchan]

Today, even office applications and email are becoming too taxing fo the fastest Pentium M cpus in the T43. There are lots of fancy GUIs and bloated programs with features that are very rarely used for most people. Media content, especially youtube, is becoming more of a challenge as well. Heck, even my X301 feels sluggish on yahoo or cnn at times. Connecting the system to a 1080p or higher resolution display only makes things worse.

I would say a mid spec T61 is the minimum for an enjoyable experience. So far, I rarely notice the performance differences between my T9500 + 850 pro ssd equipped T61 and my W530 when browsing the web.

Sure, these older Thinkpads may not have high-nit 1080p+IPS displays, 8+ hours of battery life or the best hardware benchmarks. But there is a certain level of build quality, ergonomics, character, and functional, quirky design that makes them such a joy to use.

[pianowizard]

Since June I was an alpha tester of the new Toshiba Chromebook 2 with Celeron 3215U. This is a dual-CPU chromebook which does 18,000 on the Octane benchmarks. It has a 13.3" Full-HD IPS 400 nits display and 4GB of RAM and costs a measly $329.00 at retail.

Doesn't sound like such a good deal when compared with this $350 Asus laptop with 15.6" FHD, Core i3-5010U, 4GB RAM, 500GB HDD, DVD burner and Windows 10: http://www.amazon.com/dp/B011KFQASE?tag ... PDKIKX0DER

As a googler I don't need to buy a used $300 corp fleet castoff laptop to get MS-Office. I have used Google docs, sheets, and slides for the past 2 years and have not looked back.

Windows machines can use Google Docs too.

the thought of lugging around an 8-lbs laptop to get 4.5 hours of battery life and the overall slowness (about half the speed) is not attractive any more, compared to what is available to run Linux at a $300 pricepoint.

Windows laptops have gotten much cheaper. For example, yesterday Best Buy had a $120 Dell Inspiron 14, and it wasn't even Black Friday or Cyber Monday.

[lophiomys]

I'd buy a good T43p UXGA just for its keyboard and its screen (4:3 form factor at 133DPI).
It is perfectly suitable as my daily driver for reading, typing and coding.
For special purposes I dedicated work to a number crunching headless server and use a MBP.

[shawross]

I have a T43 2.13 Ghz that I still retro-game on occasionally. But I don't think they are worth buying today unless they can be picked up very cheaply. Even the 4:3 aspect ratio I don't really miss any longer.
An SSD with the SATA mod would improve the experience but spending money upgrading such old hardware doesn't make any sense.

[ajkula66]

Even the 4:3 aspect ratio I don't really miss any longer.

I don't believe that I'll ever be able to say something along those lines...my R61FL gets more use than all of my other systems combined, mostly due to its Hydis LED UXGA display.

Mind you, I have a T500 with Sharp WUXGA - as good as a TN panel gets, period - and a R61 with LG Philips WSXGA+ LCD mostly collecting dust...

[pianowizard]

Even the 4:3 aspect ratio I don't really miss any longer.

Same here. If there were better panels, I might still be interested. 1400x1050 is terribly low for 14.1". Sharp did have a 14.1" panel with 1600x1200, which is more reasonable, but that panel has awful viewing angles and contrast. The 15.0" 2048x1536 IPS panel has excellent real estate and pixel density, but is unfortunately very dim and dull. The X61s with the 1400x1050 mod may now be the only 4:3 laptop that I find somewhat appealing, but it's hard to come by, and 1400x1050 is still insufficient even for 12.1". 1600x1200 would be ideal for 12.1", with 165 DPI which is optimal IMO, exactly matching the pixel density of 13.3" FHD.

I do have a 4:3 laptop, the Panasonic Let's Note CF-Y9 with 14.1" 1400x1050, but I bought it only because its rarity makes it a great collector's item. I use it only to play MP3 files and to view sheet music.

[sdfox7]

There are two main reasons I enjoy using my ThinkPad T40.

First, it was made at a time that they were still manufactured by IBM. I believe (perhaps incorrectly) that the machines were made better before the Lenovo handoff. There are some newer ThinkPads that do not have the magnesium built in the same way as the T4x (T40/T41/T42/T43) and older series. Most manufacturing companies are about maximizing profit, which means quality goes in the toilet. If they can make it cheaper, it will break sooner, and you'll have to buy another new one sooner. You can see where I am going with this.

Second, I despise widescreen displays, which is what most laptops have now, if not all of them. When I am reading a webpage, Microsoft Word document, or Excel document, I hate having to scroll frequently, which is the case with a widescreen. Less data is displayed vertically, which means more constant scrolling.

Say what you will, but nearly 13 years later, my college ThinkPad with Chrome and Firefox is still chugging along just fine. This machine will last longer than most new machines, and I have no need to be cutting-edge. I doubt that most people need to be cutting edge!

It was about $3,000 brand new and worth every penny!

If you like the T4x series, you may enjoy this in-depth 2003 Ars Techina review: http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2003/12/t40/

[brchan]

There are two main reasons I enjoy using my ThinkPad T40.

First, it was made at a time that they were still manufactured by IBM. I believe (perhaps incorrectly) that the machines were made better before the Lenovo handoff. There are some newer ThinkPads that do not have the magnesium built in the same way as the T4x (T40/T41/T42/T43) and older series. Most manufacturing companies are about maximizing profit, which means quality goes in the toilet. If they can make it cheaper, it will break sooner, and you'll have to buy another new one sooner. You can see where I am going with this.

The magnesium alloy roll cage in Thinkpads was implemented by Lenovo first with the T60 and made most future models quite strong. The T4* and older thinkpads did not have this feature and the thinner Thinkpads during IBM (especially T4* and 570 units) thus had noticeable chassis flex. At the end of the IBM era, there was also less chassis reinforcement, such as the elimination of "cross beams" found in 600 models.

I generally agree with you on build quality, though. IBM thinkpad quality and QC was pretty tight (except i-series and early R series). The X30* from lenovo is one of the few exceptions, but it also cost well over $2000 USD for the base model when it was released. When you look at the value of Lenovo thinkpads, the quality is still pretty good, considering the price drops.

[TPFanatic]

I like Thinkpads and since the T43 is the last T-Series IBM I could probably be persuaded just for collection purposes (preferably a p model). I wouldn't buy one for usability though, because if I wanted to torture a Pentium M in 2015 I'd use my T42p or R50p. Both have 2.0 to 1.8 ghz CPUs, 128mb FireGL graphics, UXGA Flexview screens, 2 GB of RAM, and are fingerprint readerless. Since my old environments are 32-bit XP, they're useful for running old programs that are annoying to work with on anything 64-bit and / or newer. I'm worried about utilizing the R50p's graphics though, because the GPU is passive cooled.

[sdfox7]

I like Thinkpads and since the T43 is the last T-Series IBM I could probably be persuaded just for collection purposes (preferably a p model). I wouldn't buy one for usability though, because if I wanted to torture a Pentium M in 2015 I'd use my T42p or R50p. Both have 2.0 to 1.8 ghz CPUs, 128mb FireGL graphics, UXGA Flexview screens, 2 GB of RAM, and are fingerprint readerless. Since my old environments are 32-bit XP, they're useful for running old programs that are annoying to work with on anything 64-bit and / or newer. I'm worried about utilizing the R50p's graphics though, because the GPU is passive cooled.

My T40 has specs with less than that and it does not struggle at all. Amazon Prime, Hulu and Netflix all function with no lag. I think the fact that mine came with a 7200RPM drive makes a huge difference. Google Chrome and Firefox work well on XP systems in 2015.

[shawross]

I agree the T4X series are great for collection purposes. They have a superior style especially around the Trackpad and keys area. Also the Laptop thickness and screen bezel were minimal and attractive.
Performance wise they suffer because they are single core. They are still usable and it depends on what you are doing.
There are a lot of dual core options which are relatively cheap now and despite the elegance of the T4x series their relevance is unfortunately fading.

[DaKKS]

I just refurbished my T43p actually. I'm bringing it back into service. Turns out i need XP more than i originally thought. Windows 10 backwards compatibility is severely lacking, regardless of Microsoft's promises.

[RealBlackStuff]

For those of you looking for one:
I will soon have a 15" T43 for sale with M770 (2.13GHz) CPU, ATI X300 GPU, 2GB RAM, UXGA screen and SATA-mod.
It will also have DVD Multi +, Bluetooth, a Fingerprint Reader and a 300Mbps TP-Link Wifi-N card.
TTAV134 BIOS has been applied, so no more Error 2010 (non-IBM HD) or Error 1802 (non-IBM wifi).
This BIOS also includes Slic2.1 for installation of Windows Vista or Windows 7.
Fresh AS5 thermal paste has been applied.
HD or SSD can be discussed.
To top it all up, it will also have a battery (in green) and an IBM 72W/16V charger.
The screen has a bit yellowed on the sides over the years but the rest of the machine is in almost as-good-as-new condition.
No shine on keyboard or palmrest.
PM me if interested.

[MrMaguire]

I agree with sdfox. Non-widescreen display and the IBM guise.

I've been using at least one Pentium M on a regular basis for daily activities and more since 2010, and I have no problem with continuing to do that. The biggest problem presented are the JavaSludge ridden websites like Flickr. On the plus side, something has changed on YouTube for the better, and I can now play 480p on a 2GHz Pentium M with a few clock cycles to spare.

[TPFanatic]

[...]if I wanted to torture a Pentium M in 2015 I'd use my T42p or R50p. Both have 2.0 to 1.8 ghz CPUs, 128mb FireGL graphics, UXGA Flexview screens, 2 GB of RAM, and are fingerprint readerless.[...]

My T40 has specs with less than that and it does not struggle at all. Amazon Prime, Hulu and Netflix all function with no lag. I think the fact that mine came with a 7200RPM drive makes a huge difference. Google Chrome and Firefox work well on XP systems in 2015.

A lot of the websites I used were ridiculously intensive in flash, so my CPU would be stuck loading flashplayer and the browser at the same time, and multitasking is something. But when websites play fair, I do agree very much that the old machines still pack some surprises.

[sdfox7]

My T40 has specs with less than that and it does not struggle at all. Amazon Prime, Hulu and Netflix all function with no lag. I think the fact that mine came with a 7200RPM drive makes a huge difference. Google Chrome and Firefox work well on XP systems in 2015.

A lot of the websites I used were ridiculously intensive in flash, so my CPU would be stuck loading flashplayer and the browser at the same time, and multitasking is something. But when websites play fair, I do agree very much that the old machines still pack some surprises.

What really keeps the T3x and T4x series from the dustbin of history, is that they have SSE2 compatible processors. This makes it possible to run the latest programs such as Office 2016 if you so desire. It also enables you to use popular streaming services such as Netflix, Hulu, and Amazon Prime. SSE2 keeps these old machines much more relevant than they otherwise would be for 13-15 year old systems.

[danikayser84]

Yeah, one of the reasons I ultimately retired my beloved T23 was the lack of SSE2 support in the Pentium III-M, and the fact that the processor is nearly 15 years old and can't run the modern Internet well My T43 is probably my favorite machine (even more than the T60 or T61), it runs Windows 8.1 pretty well and can still get around the Internet fine (Twitter, YouTube, etc.) and play some early-mid 2000s PC games

[lukee]

I have one of the last T43(p)s ever made (ThinkPad T-series sticker on the palmrest and Lenovo sticker under LCD) and it is still my favorite companion. I am running Debian on it and the work is still very comfortable - only trouble I have is, that it generates high pitch noise when running on AC so I am always getting headache from that. Any solution?

[MrMaguire]

The T43 2669-CTO in my signature was made in November 2006. It is completely Lenovo branded, except it has IBM logos on the palmrest and lid, and in the BIOS. It's probably not the best example of a T4x machine, if I'm being honest.

[Dekks]

........but I'd have to switch out the Intel PRO/2200bg card it currently has with a better model........

Whats the best replacement?

[RealBlackStuff]

TP-Link TL-WN861N, which has 300Mbps wifi-N.

[Dekks]

TP-Link TL-WN861N, which has 300Mbps wifi-N.

Noted cheers.

[olex126]

TP-Link TL-WN861N, which has 300Mbps wifi-N.

TP-Link has discontinued manufacture of this particular model, so if you find one at a dealer/distributor, grab a handful if you're planning on upgrading any of the older mPCI-equipped machines.

Just my nickle's worth of info... used to be two cents, but with inflation and all...

[micrex22]

The magnesium alloy roll cage in Thinkpads was implemented by Lenovo first with the T60 and made most future models quite strong. The T4* and older thinkpads did not have this feature and the thinner Thinkpads during IBM (especially T4* and 570 units) thus had noticeable chassis flex.

I generally agree with you on build quality, though. IBM thinkpad quality and QC was pretty tight (except i-series and early R series). The X30* from lenovo is one of the few exceptions, but it also cost well over $2000 USD for the base model when it was released. When you look at the value of Lenovo thinkpads, the quality is still pretty good, considering the price drops.

A fair bit of misinformation here.
#1 IBM had magnesium chassis on ThinkPads before Lenovo bought the product (and Lenovo actually manufactured later T43p LCD covers from plastic instead of magnesium--not sure why, could be due to the fact they had to support the T43 for a long period of time and just popped out some cheap plastic lids for late support).
#2 The "roll cage" was present on the T43p in the same way as on the T60 (at least the 14.1" T60). The T61 introduced honey-comb holes in the magnesium frame, versus one solid magnesium slab on early T43ps. So I consider the T61 chassis inferior.
#3 Not all of the iSeries machines were bad, the biggest quality problem was hinge failure
#4 There are some IBM ThinkPads that have inferior quality to Lenovo ThinkPads: the 701C for instance has very brittle plastics, cheap keytronics keyboards and a cheaper NiCad battery. Nobody would put up with that today.

Considering these were the last pure IBM Thinkpads, would you consider buying a T43 today? I see many sub $50 T43s listed on eBay.

I have a T60 myself and it is still going strong after eight years.

"Pure" is relative, I consider the T60 quasi-IBM, since early run T60s had IBM labeling at the bottom (and IBM sold them to corporate clients, and the T61s as well briefly-- which is why there was still the 'IBM logo' alternative FRU palm rest).

The T60 in my opinion is a better laptop, except the T43 got the aesthetics down better (naturally). The T43p can be used for light modern things, but you'll have your hands tied.

[lophiomys]

...
The T60 in my opinion is a better laptop, except the T43 got the aesthetics down better (naturally). The T43p can be used for light modern things, but you'll have your hands tied.

Full Ack.

[brchan]

A fair bit of misinformation here.
#1 IBM had magnesium chassis on ThinkPads before Lenovo bought the product (and Lenovo actually manufactured later T43p LCD covers from plastic instead of magnesium--not sure why, could be due to the fact they had to support the T43 for a long period of time and just popped out some cheap plastic lids for late support).
#2 The "roll cage" was present on the T43p in the same way as on the T60 (at least the 14.1" T60). The T61 introduced honey-comb holes in the magnesium frame, versus one solid magnesium slab on early T43ps. So I consider the T61 chassis inferior.
#3 Not all of the iSeries machines were bad, the biggest quality problem was hinge failure
#4 There are some IBM ThinkPads that have inferior quality to Lenovo ThinkPads: the 701C for instance has very brittle plastics, cheap keytronics keyboards and a cheaper NiCad battery. Nobody would put up with that today.

That is very interesting. Anyone have photos for magnesium frames and lids in 15" t4* models? I tried searching for frames of T4* models but came up with nothing. There only seems to be the standard aluminum cover for the ultrabay + HDD area. Of course, there is the minor magnesium section at the battery compartment and a small strip next the the pcmcia slots, but it isn't really a frame (or at least not like the ones on T60 models).

PSREF sheets lists 15" t42p models as having magnesium covers, but I can't seem to find any that aren't CFRP covers.