Windows 10 churning through data, blowing up usage caps

[ajkula66]

Yes, Microsoft could access your files if it wants to, or if it is ordered by the NSA to.

There's a HUGE difference between these two scenarios, don't you think?

Microsoft could do this even if the EULA (of Windows XP, for example) doesn't explicitly mention this possibility. Like I said, over time, lawyers keep adding stuff to the EULA to protect Microsoft from new liabilities that they think of.

Once and again, compare W2K EULA to W7 EULA to W10 EULA. It's gotten progressively worse.

I understand that some people are more sensitive and are concerned about events that could happen. But trillions of things could happen on any day, the vast majority of them with infinitesimal probabilities.

While I agree that many things *could* happen to any of us at any given moment, I'm still not going to stand outside of my house and hold a 30-foot metal rod during a thunderstorm...

[pianowizard]

Once and again, compare W2K EULA to W7 EULA to W10 EULA. It's gotten progressively worse.

My point was that the EULA hardly matters. For years Microsoft has had the ability to access our computers' files. It could have accessed them back in 2000 even if Windows 2000's EULA didn't explicitly state this possibility. Several years ago, Microsoft handed user emails over to the NSA without user consent. After that incident, Microsoft decided it's safer, legally, to warn us up front. Hence, the "scarier" EULA.

I totally agree that lots of users, probably the majority of them, don't realize that by default, Windows 10 collects much more information than they realize, and it's important to warn them about it. But after all optional telemetry has been turned off, Windows 10 isn't substantially different from Windows 7. If you are nervous about using 10, you ought to be almost equally nervous about using 7.

[ajkula66]

My point was that the EULA hardly matters.

I strongly disagree. Read on.

For years Microsoft has had the ability to access our computers' files. It could have accessed them back in 2000 even if Windows 2000's EULA didn't explicitly state this possibility. Several years ago, Microsoft handed user emails over to the NSA without user consent. After that incident, Microsoft decided it's safer, legally, to warn us up front. Hence, the "scarier" EULA.

Once again, it's not just about NSA and related agencies worldwide. It's about giving MS consent to enter your personal space.

If a sheriff comes to my door with a search warrant, I have little choice but to let him/her in. However, if a debt collector showed up at my door I have every right to kick him/her off my property. If I'm dumb enough to let him/her into my house to start an inventory of my belongings, the joke's on me. But one has to be aware of the laws that govern their surroundings in order to make a proper decision in either of these cases.

That's why EULA *does* matter.

The EULA associated with W10 gives MS *huge* rights that they shouldn't be entitled to just by the user agreeing to them.

But after all optional telemetry has been turned off, Windows 10 isn't substantially different from Windows 7. If you are nervous about using 10, you ought to be almost equally nervous about using 7.

I'd question the term "equally"...very much so.

[precip9]

That's why EULA *does* matter.
The EULA associated with W10 gives MS *huge* rights that they shouldn't be entitled to just by the user agreeing to them.

Ditto. Ours is a society of law. Law, not custom, goodwill, hypothetical intent or historical behavior, is the ultimate arbiter of our rights. The EULA, as a legal document, is the basis.

It is appalling that members of the public, seemingly unaware that they they still live in a free society where their rights are guarded by civil/legal vigilance, would be so eager to give up that protection for the sake of the "glitzy new." History offers no guarantee of future freedom. The Windows 10 EULA is a violation of all that has come before. The eagerness to accept Microsoft, literally as a kind of "Big Brother", is shocking.

Live free or die. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Live_Free_or_Die . We are lucky that our choice is not so stark. Reject Windows 10 to stay free!

[erik]

here's the challenge: using software is a privilege, not a right.   windows is licensed and therefore not a product that any of us legally own or have any legal rights over.

agreeing to a EULA creates a legally-binding contract between the vendor and user.   if a EULA explicitly states that it will collect and use data for advertising purposes and potentially share it with third parties—including law enforcement or government if stated—then there's no legal assumption of privacy.   unless the software vendor violates the EULA and in turn violates one's legal rights, claims against the EULA simply wouldn't hold up in court.

the best recourse for consumers who disagree with the EULA is to use another product.

otherwise, what you're looking for is a confidentiality agreement, not a license agreement.

[ajkula66]

if a EULA explicitly states that it will collect and use data for advertising purposes and potentially share it with third parties—including law enforcement or government if stated—then there's no legal assumption of privacy.   unless the software vendor violates the EULA and in turn violates one's legal rights, claims against the EULA simply wouldn't hold up in court.

From W2K EULA:

7) CONSENT TO USE OF DATA. You agree that Microsoft and its affiliates may collect and use technical information you provide as a part of support services related to the Product. Microsoft agrees not to use this information in a form that personally identifies you.

From W7 EULA:

Use of Information. Microsoft may use the computer information, accelerator information,
search suggestions information, error reports, and Malware reports to improve our software and
services. We may also share it with others, such as hardware and software vendors. They may
use the information to improve how their products run with Microsoft software.

From W10 EULA:

Your privacy is important to us. Some of the software features send or receive information when using those features. Many of these features can be switched off in the user interface, or you can choose not to use them. By accepting this agreement and using the software you agree that Microsoft may collect, use, and disclose the information as described in the Microsoft Privacy Statement (aka.ms/privacy), and as may be described in the user interface associated with the software features.

Now, when one goes into the Privacy Statement, things get even more interesting:

Microsoft collects data to operate effectively and provide you the best experiences with our services. You provide some of this data directly, such as when you create a Microsoft account, submit a search query to Bing, speak a voice command to Cortana, upload a document to OneDrive, or contact us for support. We get some of it by recording how you interact with our services by, for example, using technologies like cookies, and receiving error reports or usage data from software running on your device.

We also obtain data from third parties (including other companies). For example, we supplement the data we collect by purchasing demographic data from other companies. We also use services from other companies to help us determine a location based on your IP address in order to customize certain services to your location.

The data we collect depends on the services and features you use, and includes the following.

Name and contact data. We collect your first and last name, email address, postal address, phone number, and other similar contact data.

Credentials. We collect passwords, password hints, and similar security information used for authentication and account access.

Demographic data. We collect data about you such as your age, gender, country and preferred language.

Interests and favorites. We collect data about your interests and favorites, such as the teams you follow in a sports app, the stocks you track in a finance app, or the favorite cities you add to a weather app. In addition to those you explicitly provide, your interests and favorites may also be inferred or derived from other data we collect.

Payment data. We collect data necessary to process your payment if you make purchases, such as your payment instrument number (such as a credit card number), and the security code associated with your payment instrument.

Usage data. We collect data about how you interact with our services. This includes data, such as the features you use, the items you purchase, the web pages you visit, and the search terms you enter. This also includes data about your device, including IP address, device identifiers, regional and language settings, and data about the network, operating system, browser or other software you use to connect to the services. And it also includes data about the performance of the services and any problems you experience with them.

Contacts and relationships. We collect data about your contacts and relationships if you use a Microsoft service to manage contacts, or to communicate or interact with other people or organizations.

Location data. We collect data about your location, which can be either precise or imprecise. Precise location data can be Global Position System (GPS) data, as well as data identifying nearby cell towers and Wi-Fi hotspots, we collect when you enable location-based services or features. Imprecise location data includes, for example, a location derived from your IP address or data that indicates where you are located with less precision, such as at a city or postal code level.

Content. We collect content of your files and communications when necessary to provide you with the services you use. This includes: the content of your documents, photos, music or video you upload to a Microsoft service such as OneDrive. It also includes the content of your communications sent or received using Microsoft services, such as the:

subject line and body of an email,
text or other content of an instant message,
audio and video recording of a video message, and
audio recording and transcript of a voice message you receive or a text message you dictate.

Additionally, when you contact us, such as for customer support, phone conversations or chat sessions with our representatives may be monitored and recorded. If you enter our retail stores, your image may be captured by our security cameras.

You have choices about the data we collect. When you are asked to provide personal data, you may decline. But if you choose not to provide data that is necessary to provide a service, you may not be able to use some features or services.

In plain English: we can collect everything/anything and then some.

Thanks but no thanks. Ever.

the best recourse for consumers who disagree with the EULA is to use another product.

No argument from me on that one.

otherwise, what you're looking for is a confidentiality agreement, not a license agreement.

I'm certain that most of us around here have signed NDAs and similar documents at some point in their lives, and no that's not the level of confidentiality that I'm expecting a software license to grant me.

[precip9]

I trust the NSA a lot more than Microsoft. My tax dollars support the NSA. The NSA performs activities vital to the safety of our country. I am a citizen of a democracy. Government is not my enemy. But I don't elect Microsoft. Microsoft is interested in making a profit.

Given the recent prevalence of enterprise hacks, there is a much higher probability that one-in-trillions that Microsoft will be hacked, and the Windows 10 user will be all over the place, like Ashley Madison: http://krebsonsecurity.com/2015/07/onli ... on-hacked/

This is not an "infinitesimal" possibility. Enteprrise hacking, and Microsoft is an enterprise, is a clear and present danger.

But if you want Doctor Microsoft in your house, with a finger in a delicate part of your computer anatomy, let's meet the man: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=85PcMJ9D8X0

Reject Windows 10 and stay free!

[exTPfan]

agreeing to a EULA creates a legally-binding contract between the vendor and user.

That's what software companies would like you to believe, but, when tested in court, many do not stand up.

the best recourse for consumers who disagree with the EULA is to use another product.

That's not easy given Microsoft's near monopoly. I would switch to Linux in a heartbeat but I have several programs with decades of data that don't run under Linux and, for some of them, there is no good alternative.

[precip9]

My point was that the EULA hardly matters. For years Microsoft has had the ability to access our computers' files. It could have accessed them back in 2000 even if Windows 2000's EULA didn't explicitly state this possibility. Several years ago, Microsoft handed user emails over to the NSA without user consent. After that incident, Microsoft decided it's safer, legally, to warn us up front. Hence, the "scarier" EULA.
.

Those emails were on Microsoft servers, not on users' machines.

And, as we now know, Windows 10 is collecting a lot more:
http://www.newsweek.com/windows-10-reco ... ove-358952

That's why the EULA is scary -- because Windows 10 is scary.

Stay free! Reject Windows 10.

[coolcat37]

wow @ the Privacy Statement. just wow
y'all keep enjoying windows 10 and telling others that there is no danger in it. go on kidding urselfs.
thats a pretty hefty grasp they've got on you once you install windows 10

how can companies even implement windows 10 if it's gonna collect all that data? think of the possibilities of hacking/backdoring the ms servers + economical spying. hello? doesn't that ring some alarm in your head that some hacker may know every single thing about you(r company) just by cracking the main database?
are you pro-windows 10'ers even processing that privacy statement? every line is basically saying everything you do on our OS is accessible to us. i really don't see how you can defend that or not have a problem with it. i fail to comprehend how you can be pro invasion of your personal life + putting your personal data at risk... :/

This is probably the most important line: remember how microsoft wanted to move to a kind of service type of deal:
=>You have choices about the data we collect. When you are asked to provide personal data, you may decline. But if you choose not to provide data that is necessary to provide a service, you may not be able to use some features or services.<=

next up if you don't do voice id, facial id and dna id windows is not gonna let you log in into the OS. nice eh?

[precip9]

how can companies even implement windows 10 if it's gonna collect all that data?

Legal to be sure. But there is a clear and present danger that with that motherlode of heretofore private information, Microsoft will become the #1 hacker target on the planet. And what hackers want badly enough, they usually get.

Stay free! Reject Windows 10.

[laowai]

In plain English: we can collect everything/anything and then some.

Thanks but no thanks. Ever.

Name and contact data
Credentials
Demographic data.
Interests and favorite
Payment data
Usage data
Contacts and relationships
Location data
Content


It doesn't say that at all though. Win10 does that syncing thing across devices. And when you upload to onedrive, yes, they can and will mine that data for marketing because nothing is ever free.

If you use their silly apps, then yes, they will collect those preferences, because that's marketing information and they actually do need to collect some of that info to make the apps work. In theory I guess you could be supplying that in every single application, but most users would find that annoying to fill out forms over and over and over again. It's not seamless. You can opt out by just not using any of them.

Usage data, again, this is marketing marketing marketing. The VAST majority of this is linked to the onedrive integration. No one's forcing you to use that though. They are just being very explicit as to what is being accessed and flat out giving examples of it.

And again, they have had the ability to force updates to your system for a long long long long time, as well as inject malware if the NSA wants them to.

[precip9]

It doesn't say that at all though.

It certainly does. It is a direct quote of Microsoft, from

https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/privacystatement/

Click the blue "down arrow" to the right to expand the statement.

Stay free! Reject Windows 10.

[Ibthink]

The quote of the EULA is very funny. Thats not specific to Windows 10 at all, and only applies when you use Microsoft services - such as Onedrive, Cortana, Bing etc. - as explicitly stated in the quote

Microsoft collects data to operate effectively and provide you the best experiences with our services. You provide some of this data directly, such as when you create a Microsoft account, submit a search query to Bing, speak a voice command to Cortana, upload a document to OneDrive, or contact us for support. We get some of it by recording how you interact with our services by, for example, using technologies like cookies, and receiving error reports or usage data from software running on your device.

Funny how some people want to construct some kind of epic decision between using Windows 10 and being free.....laughable. Face it, you are not free! No matter if you use Windows 10 or not, this society is not free.

Windows 10 is no different from previous Windows versions. The main difference is the fact that it collect some telemetry data, which is virtually the only thing that can´t be turned off- which is necessary for the development of Windows.

http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/wind ... rivacy-faq

If you want to misunderstand the privacy statement, then do.

How can companies even implement windows 10 if it's gonna collect all that data? think of the possibilities of hacking/backdoring the ms servers + economical spying.

They should have no problem, since Windows 10 doesn´t collect much more than Windows 7. Enterprises can even turn off the telemetry data collection, thats not even harmful to the user by nature....

[precip9]

These are not infinitesimal probabilities. The EULA is poison.

Stay free! Reject Windows 10.

[precip9]

They should have no problem, since Windows 10 doesn´t collect much more than Windows 7. Enterprises can even turn off the telemetry data collection, thats not even harmful to the user by nature....

But it does!
http://www.newsweek.com/windows-10-reco ... ove-358952


Stay free! Reject Windows 10.

[precip9]

Funny how some people want to construct some kind of epic decision between using Windows 10 and being free.....laughable. Face it, you are not free! No matter if you use Windows 10 or not, this society is not free.

Perhaps the country in which you live is not a free country. I live in the United States of America, and I live in freedom.

[Puppy]

I understand that some people are more sensitive and are concerned about events that could happen. But trillions of things could happen on any day, the vast majority of them with infinitesimal probabilities.

I guess many of them use Google Chrome It installs non-optional googleupdater windows service running under system account so it has access to all files on your machine and can silently install or modify anything without any control (and it does). It is not easy to kill it (disabling it in Services window does not help) because there are multiple starting points. Why Google is so stubborn to keep it running on your machine ? Guess why.

Unlike Windows Update that can be controlled (except Windows 10 Home/Pro yet) and provides detailed log of all operations performed.

[coolcat37]

Funny how some people want to construct some kind of epic decision between using Windows 10 and being free.....laughable. Face it, you are not free! No matter if you use Windows 10 or not, this society is not free.

What do you mean _exactly_ ?

[laowai]

It doesn't say that at all though.

It certainly does. It is a direct quote of Microsoft, from

https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/privacystatement/

Click the blue "down arrow" to the right to expand the statement.

Stay free! Reject Windows 10.

Yes, look at that, the way they tell you all about what uses what, this is probably one of the better explanations of data collection and use I have seen. I guess that's why people are crying about it. It's not buried in legalese, it's very straightforward and laid out.

Windows generates a unique advertising ID for each user on a device. Your advertising ID can be used by app developers and advertising networks to provide more relevant advertising. You can turn off access to this identifier at any time in the device Settings. If you choose to turn it on again, a new identifier will be generated. For more information on our use of data for advertising, see the How We Use Data section of this statement.

You can turn off Input Personalization at any time. This will stop the data collection for this feature and will delete associated data stored on your device, such as your local user dictionary and your input history. As Cortana uses this data to help understand your input, turning off Input Personalization will also disable Cortana on your device. At https://www.bing.com/account/personalization, you can also clear data sent to Microsoft, such as your contacts and calendar data, user dictionary, as well as search and browsing history if your device also had Cortana enabled.

In Settings, you can also view which applications have access to the location service or your device's location history, turn off or on access to the location service for particular applications, or turn off the location service. Note that on mobile devices, your mobile operator will have access to your location even if you turn off the location service.

You can choose whether to sync your settings, and control what is synced, by going to Sync Settings in the Accounts section of Settings. If you sign into Windows with a work account and you choose to connect that account to your personal Microsoft account, Windows will ask which settings you want to sync before connecting your Microsoft account.

For the telemetry

Some diagnostic data is vital to the operation of Windows and cannot be turned off if you use Windows. Other data collection is optional, and you will be able to turn this data collection on or off in Settings.

You can turn off automatic error reporting at any time in Settings.

I have turned off windows search, i dont use their browsers, i killed all their apps and deleted the store entirely, i dont sign in with a MS account, i have disabled all permissions in security that has anything to do with app access or data, and updates are deferred.
http://winaero.com/blog/how-to-disable- ... indows-10/
Here's how to block the telemetry entirely.

And yes, ethernet connections can be set as metered, it's in wifi -> advanced options.

win10 actually makes the advanced controls MORE accessible to users than they previously were. No obscure powershell commands or admin policies buried deep in the control panel that are vague at best.

the only reason any seems to be complaining is because it's more out in the open now... but at the same time, it's easier than ever to control it all. if you want to whine and complain about it, then by all means go snowden-level paranoid, but most people don't care and it's disingenuous and dishonest to scare people over non-issues.

Here's what ya do: if you are doing things or planning to do things that the government might not appreciate, then take proper precaution. If you're not, then this really is a moot issue. If you're worried about backdoors being abused, then don't keep important information on non-airgapped machines or on networks that have any access to the outside world.

smartphones leak far more data on you anyways (i'm in the industry, it's quite scary what the apps are all doing without you knowing about it). Here's what a good chunk of smartphones are doing:

If you have any number of popular apps (both paid and free) they have modules included by research companies.
Modules will collect everything going on with your phone. How you are playing games, how you are navigating, GPS, phone call information, SMS information, messaging information (doesnt matter if it's encrypted because it has direct access now), using your mic to monitor all background noises and pick up keywords, camera to identify set parameters. Data is stored until it has a chance to transmit, it's rather compact usually. Video and sound recordings are typically low res so it's not a big deal. All data is of course being encrypted and buried in the app's data files. Data bursts typically go out when there is already significant traffic so it's not really noticed.

And of course, all those research companies that are doing this.... have government contracts and data sharing agreements. So they'll sell their services to marketing and research no problem. And at the same time they have operating agreements with intelligence agencies who are funding all their research. What? did you think that ads were the only way that apps are being monetized? Hell, there are various shell companies setup so an app developer has zero clue about the module they are including... and of course, that's discounting the ones that have been NSL'd to include them and are not allowed to disclose it or discuss it.

But yes, win10 is totally the big scary thing here. What with it's EULA having been broken down into easy to understand language and format and options to shut things down and even run diagnostics to verify it is shut off.

[precip9]

win10 actually makes the advanced controls MORE accessible to users than they previously were. No obscure powershell commands or admin policies buried deep in the control panel that are vague at best.

By hacking the registry instead? You gotta be kidding!

the only reason any seems to be complaining is because it's more out in the open now... but at the same time, it's easier than ever to control it all. if you want to whine and complain about it, then by all means go snowden-level paranoid, but most people don't care and it's disingenuous and dishonest to scare people over non-issues.

I was hoping this thread would be free of ad hominem attacks. I don't think I'm disingenuous or dishonest. But people who use the ad hominem tactic might be.

For those who don't think I'm disingenous or dishonest, see
http://bgr.com/2015/08/22/windows-10-software-updates/

All of laowai's quoted registry hacks can be easily undone without notice from Microsoft.

Stay free! Reject Windows 10.

[pianowizard]

Okay, I am back in the saddle. I am glad to see that there are at least two sane participants in this thread:

The quote of the EULA is very funny. Thats not specific to Windows 10 at all, and only applies when you use Microsoft services - such as Onedrive, Cortana, Bing etc. - as explicitly stated in the quote...

If you use their silly apps, then yes, they will collect those preferences, because that's marketing information and they actually do need to collect some of that info to make the apps work.

Windows 10's EULA covers all aspects of the operating system, including not only the "classic" portion we are accustomed to, but also the new, smartphone-like features such as Cortana, location service, Windows Store, mobile apps, Office 365, OneDrive, etc. Most (but potentially not all -- see below) of the scary items in the EULA are relevant only to these new features, and they aren't any more intrusive than Google's or Apple's equivalent applications. If you just use the "classic" functions, log into Windows 10 locally, and also disable all the optional data sharing settings, 10 becomes not so different from 7. And that's exactly how I am using Windows, which is why I am not that concerned about losing my privacy.

In my view, for people who don't venture out of the "classic" part of Windows 10, the only serious privacy concern should be the EULA section regarding Microsoft's right to access our personal files. Here's again the URL I linked to earlier: https://www.reddit.com/r/Windows10/comm ... /?sort=old . We can only speculate what it really means, but I agree with those Reddit users that it most likely applies only to files on OneDrive (which I don't use anyway), rather than files stored locally. I do use Hotmail, which of course is now Microsoft-owned, but it's just my tertiary email account and I have zero sensitive information there. So, if Microsoft wants to read my junk mail, they are more than welcome to.

I'll repeat what I said earlier: We should worry much more about the information that we send to web sites. If we don't buy anything from the Windows Store, Microsoft wouldn't have our credit card information, but all the online stores (Newegg, Amazon, eBay, Target...) where we have shopped do have it. Most commonly used browsers save your online activity for months, if not permanently. Gmail, Yahoo Mail and many other web-based email clients do scan your messages to identify keywords that are relevant to ads. Facebook keeps a record of all the things that you do on their site. And so on and so forth. Many of these sites are far less hacker-proof than Microsoft's, and they are just as willing as Microsoft is to relinquish sensitive data upon the NSA's request.

You know, it would be funny (and kind of evil) if this controversy over privacy has been Microsoft's devious plan all along. Perhaps in a year or two, Microsoft will release a "new" operating system that has only the classic, core components of Windows, which will be bought by those who aren't comfortable with Windows 10. It would be Vista all over again: Microsoft wanted us to believe it was awful, so that Windows 7 (which was essentially Vista with Service Pack 3) would sell better!

[ajkula66]

Funny how some people want to construct some kind of epic decision between using Windows 10 and being free.....laughable. Face it, you are not free! No matter if you use Windows 10 or not, this society is not free.

Well...someone once said that the price of freedom is eternal vigilance. I'd tend to agree with that train of thoughts, but to each their own.

They should have no problem, since Windows 10 doesn´t collect much more than Windows 7.

The validity of that statement is questionable at best.

Enterprises can even turn off the telemetry data collection, thats not even harmful to the user by nature....

The problem is that end users can't do it, like they were able to in the previous versions of Windows. Even if one were to deploy an Enterprise edition of W10 on their PC, they still wouldn't be able to control the updates the way it has been done in the previous releases.

Windows 10's EULA covers all aspects of the operating system, including not only the "classic" portion we are accustomed to, but also the new, smartphone-like features such as Cortana, location service, Windows Store, mobile apps, Office 365, OneDrive, etc. Most (but potentially not all -- see below) of the scary items in the EULA are relevant only to these new features, and they aren't any more intrusive than Google's or Apple's equivalent applications.

I don't use any of Google's or Apple's products or applications. There's no reason for me to accept this approach from MS eiher.

If you just use the "classic" functions, log into Windows 10 locally, and also disable all the optional data sharing settings, 10 becomes not so different from 7. And that's exactly how I am using Windows, which is why I am not that concerned about losing my privacy.

Once again, one can't disable *everything* and therein lies the problem. Well, one of them.

We can only speculate what it really means, but I agree with those Reddit users that it most likely applies only to files on OneDrive (which I don't use anyway), rather than files stored locally.

I'd rather not speculate in the first place, but if I must do so I'll rather err on the side of caution. To each their own.

I do use Hotmail, which of course is now Microsoft-owned, but it's just my tertiary email account and I have zero sensitive information there. So, if Microsoft wants to read my junk mail, they are more than welcome to.

I'll repeat what I said earlier: We should worry much more about the information that we send to web sites. If we don't buy anything from the Windows Store, Microsoft wouldn't have our credit card information, but all the online stores (Newegg, Amazon, eBay, Target...) where we have shopped do have it. Most commonly used browsers save your online activity for months, if not permanently. Gmail, Yahoo Mail and many other web-based email clients do scan your messages to identify keywords that are relevant to ads. Facebook keeps a record of all the things that you do on their site. And so on and so forth. Many of these sites are far less hacker-proof than Microsoft's, and they are just as willing as Microsoft is to relinquish sensitive data upon the NSA's request.

Well, let's see: I don't use Hotmail, Gmail or Yahoo mail. I don't have - nor will I ever - a FB, Linkedin, Google Plus or any similar account. And I don't use a "common" browser either.

As for NSA...there's a huge difference between relinquishing data upon request - remember my comparison with a search warrant earlier on - and providing it without one. MS - as well as many others who became a part of the PRISM - have made their choice in the matter. That's just one of the reasons why I choose not to trust their good intentions. Now or ever. But that's me.

[JaneL]

All of you, knock it off.

[MisterB]

I understand that some people are more sensitive and are concerned about events that could happen. But trillions of things could happen on any day, the vast majority of them with infinitesimal probabilities.

I guess many of them use Google Chrome It installs non-optional googleupdater windows service running under system account so it has access to all files on your machine and can silently install or modify anything without any control (and it does). It is not easy to kill it (disabling it in Services window does not help) because there are multiple starting points. Why Google is so stubborn to keep it running on your machine ? Guess why.

Unlike Windows Update that can be controlled (except Windows 10 Home/Pro yet) and provides detailed log of all operations performed.

Just delete the Update folder in the Google/Chrome folder. Chrome will still work but it will be whining about not being able to update itself if you look in the "About Chrome" menu item. Otherwise you won't notice any difference. If you want to update Chrome, you will have to download and install the new version and do the same file deletion over again to get rid of Google updater.

Services can be disabled and deleted if you don't like them. I have Chrome working without Google Updater on my system. I just deleted the binary files and didn't even have to mess with the services.