New project: ThinkPad T40 mobo to work with 533MHz Dothan CPUs?

[lukee]

I'm curious if T40's mobo (designed primarily for 400MHz FSB Dothans and Banias') will work with 533MHz Dothan CPU? I do remember times of my former Dell Latitude D600 which has had almost same HW as T40, that 533MHz Dothan CPU worked well there, even underperforming on 400MHz FSB. Is it going to work reliably? I know, that memory modules needs to be 400MHz.

I have these parts and I would like to build a nice setup from them:

- 14.1" SXGA+ LCD (damaged LCD cable after my experiments to make this LCD working with R52 Intel board, however I've bought a new one as replacement on eBay for 6 Euros yesterday)
- 14.1" T40 shell with T40 mobo (GPU Radeon 7500)
- 1.8GHz 400MHz FSB CPU, 1.8GHz 533MHz FSB CPU
- 2x 512MB 400MHz DDR modules
- DVD multi recorder for UltraBay slim
- multiple HDDs, 7K100, Fujitsu HDDs and some old 4k2 rpm Hitachis

[ajkula66]

The board will work, but you need a pinmod - described *somewhere* on this forum - in order for the CPU to run at full speed.

Good luck.

[lukee]

This one?
http://www.notebookreview.com/news/pin- ... m-m-guide/

Does it mean the T40 board will drive 533Mhz Dothan afterwards at full speed?

[ajkula66]

This one?
http://www.notebookreview.com/news/pin- ... m-m-guide/

I don't believe so. That one deals with overclocking a 400MHz Dothan to work at 533MHz. You need a 533MHz CPU running on 400MHz planar, and at full speed.

[axur-delmeria]

Big questions:

1. How to force the Intel 855GM to run at 533MHz FSB? --> it may be more like a PLL mod than a socket pinmod.
2. Will it be stable?

[lukee]

Why are the high-end Pentium Ms so expensive?
Looking at feebay, ie: Pentium M 765 (top processor for T40 - T42 series with Dothan core and 400MHz bus) is 4 times more expensive than Pentium M 755 (2GHz vs 2.1GHz). The same is for Pentium M 770 vs. 780 (2.13GHz vs 2.26GHz). For my T40 project, I currently have Pentium M 745 (Dothan 2MB, 400MHz, 1.8GHz) and considering $10 Pentium M 755. Is it worth upgrade?

[sdfox7]

Why are the high-end Pentium Ms so expensive?

Supply and demand. These products are out of production and have been for nearly a decade.

[ajkula66]

Why are the high-end Pentium Ms so expensive?

Supply and demand. These products are out of production and have been for nearly a decade.

The other part of the equation is that all "top-end" CPUs that enable one to max out a particular platform (T7600, X9000, 2960XM to name but a few) always carry a premium when it comes to the price even if their performance is quite similar to the next CPU in line.

[PuuFa]

Nice to see someone still messing with these great old dinosaurs. I've actually done this thing many times in the past on several T40 units and never had an issue with stability or reliability if only the CPU can handle 533MHz FSB.

To make the board run at 533MHz FSB you will need to short the second and third leg of the PLL chip, counting from up left corner. I have used a fine tip soldering iron and a tiny ball of solder but there are other methods to do it as well.

As for the CPU I've used the cheap 400MHz FSB Dothans of 1.5GHz, 1.6GHz and 1.7GHz which will work after the mod at 2GHz, 2.13GHz and 2.26GHz respectively. The success rate varies though. With the 1.5GHz my success rate has been full 100 percent, 1.6GHz something between 80-90 percent but 1.7GHz only about 40 percent. With the success rate I mean that they run perfectly stable without overvolting. Overvolting is easy to do but I'd rather avoid it because it affects the heat and battery life. I've never tried a 1.8GHz chip but you'd definitely need some serious overvolting to make it run stable at 533FSB.

Of course you can also use a real 533FSB Dothan which, besides being guaranteed to work, would give you PAE support and usually better undervolting results.

With T40 you don't need to worry about the RAM at all; I've had 100 percent success rate even with the original "Mosel vitec" 256/512MB sticks. After the mod they will run at 177MHz (DDR-354) if my memory serves...

For the operating system I'd recommend a stripped down Windows 7 with ati display driver version 6.14.10.6606. I've tried many light weight Linux distros on T40 and many of them do beat Windows in boot times but once the system is up and running it's surprisingly almost always been Win7 which offers the smoothest overall operation and most notably the best video performance. However don't forget to flash the latest BIOS and embedded controller first, I recall having some strange issues with Win7 and an older BIOS version...

A speedy hard drive does make a big difference too. As far as I know Samsung HM160HC is the fastest IDE drive and I've used it with good results. Despite being only 5400RPM drive it actually outperforms most of the 7200RPM IDE drives. I also use PerfectDisk under Windows to defrag the drive and it does make a noticeable difference in performance, especially with these old and slow drives.

Hope this was helpful

[Hans Gruber]

Why are the high-end Pentium Ms so expensive?
Looking at feebay, ie: Pentium M 765 (top processor for T40 - T42 series with Dothan core and 400MHz bus) is 4 times more expensive than Pentium M 755 (2GHz vs 2.1GHz). The same is for Pentium M 770 vs. 780 (2.13GHz vs 2.26GHz). For my T40 project, I currently have Pentium M 745 (Dothan 2MB, 400MHz, 1.8GHz) and considering $10 Pentium M 755. Is it worth upgrade?

This is why I $ cost average everything I purchase. It comes down to how badly you want to have the fastest processor of that generation. I would call it good at 2ghz myself, but that is just me. The performance increase between 2ghz and 2.26ghz is not a big boost. Going from 1.5-1.6ghz to 2ghz+ is a significant difference.

[sdfox7]

Why are the high-end Pentium Ms so expensive?
Looking at feebay, ie: Pentium M 765 (top processor for T40 - T42 series with Dothan core and 400MHz bus) is 4 times more expensive than Pentium M 755 (2GHz vs 2.1GHz). The same is for Pentium M 770 vs. 780 (2.13GHz vs 2.26GHz). For my T40 project, I currently have Pentium M 745 (Dothan 2MB, 400MHz, 1.8GHz) and considering $10 Pentium M 755. Is it worth upgrade?

Lately I have been buying more goods on Amazon than eBay. It just seems like eBay has gotten ridiculous, and of course the seller has to charge higher prices because of the eBay fees.

Here's a new Pentium M 765 on Amazon for only $10: http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/ ... dition=new

You can get a Pentium 780 on Amazon for around $30: http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss_ ... tium+m+780

[lukee]

For the operating system I'd recommend a stripped down Windows 7 with ati display driver version 6.14.10.6606. I've tried many light weight Linux distros on T40 and many of them do beat Windows in boot times but once the system is up and running it's surprisingly almost always been Win7 which offers the smoothest overall operation and most notably the best video performance. However don't forget to flash the latest BIOS and embedded controller first, I recall having some strange issues with Win7 and an older BIOS version...

A speedy hard drive does make a big difference too. As far as I know Samsung HM160HC is the fastest IDE drive and I've used it with good results. Despite being only 5400RPM drive it actually outperforms most of the 7200RPM IDE drives. I also use PerfectDisk under Windows to defrag the drive and it does make a noticeable difference in performance, especially with these old and slow drives.

Hope this was helpful

Problem in Linux are graphics drivers. As there is no support for legacy GPUs in current fglrx (proprietary) AMD driver, we mostly rely on opensource driver which provides only 10-20% performance in compare with the proprietary driver. This is the reason why Windows 7 works better. However, Windows systems are usually getting slower over the time - Linux systems don't.

HDD: I know that HM160HC is the fastest 2.5" IDE HDD thanks to the single platter design with high density. As I have a source of the free Fujitsu and 7K100 80GB hard drives, I will not go to purchase that Samsung. Also, I have had this HM160HC in my old T43p which is serving to friend of mine currently, I wouldn't buy this one as the HDD got some bad sectors after ~2 years of the service (HDD bought as new). I believe that classic HDDs (Fujitsus, Hitachis, Toshibas) are more reliable.

[PuuFa]

Problem in Linux are graphics drivers. As there is no support for legacy GPUs in current fglrx (proprietary) AMD driver, we mostly rely on opensource driver which provides only 10-20% performance in compare with the proprietary driver. This is the reason why Windows 7 works better. However, Windows systems are usually getting slower over the time - Linux systems don't.

I agree. Graphics driver is indeed the culprit here which makes Win7 to run better on T40. Apparently Radeon 7500 is just too old and poorly supported even by the opensource driver nowadays. Maybe an older driver version would work better but my experience and knowledge in Linux is not even nearly enough to mess with those things. However on slightly newer systems such as T43 and some T42 models (with a better graphics chip) Linux actually runs better than Win7 does.

HDD: I know that HM160HC is the fastest 2.5" IDE HDD thanks to the single platter design with high density. As I have a source of the free Fujitsu and 7K100 80GB hard drives, I will not go to purchase that Samsung. Also, I have had this HM160HC in my old T43p which is serving to friend of mine currently, I wouldn't buy this one as the HDD got some bad sectors after ~2 years of the service (HDD bought as new). I believe that classic HDDs (Fujitsus, Hitachis, Toshibas) are more reliable.

Lucky man, you got a free source of such decent hard drives? Anyway, I just thought to mention about this drive in case if you were not aware of it. Sorry to hear that you've got a bad one. I've actually encountered several bad Fujitsus but to be honest I don't know if they were abused by the previous owner. Hitachis on the other hand seem to be very reliable, never seen a bad one yet.

[ajkula66]

Here's a new Pentium M 765 on Amazon for only $10: http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/ ... dition=new

If you look at the actual listing, it's a 755 and not a 765...

[sdfox7]

Here's a new Pentium M 765 on Amazon for only $10: http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/ ... dition=new

If you look at the actual listing, it's a 755 and not a 765...

George

A typo on my part, but most of those are in China so you'd have to wait longer to receive if if you live in the States.

Here's a nice 2.13GHz Pentium M 770 from OH, only $15.49: http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/ ... tium+m+770

Amazon seems more competitive lately. Or I am just now realizing it.

[lukee]

Project is completed.
Final configuration is:

Pentium M Dothan 1.8GHz 400MHz FSB
T40-based motherboard with Radeon 7k5 GPU
Long fan/heatsink is also covering the GPU
1GB DDR RAM (awaiting 2x 1GB kit from China)
80GB Fujitsu MHV2080AH (very silent & relatively fast drive)
802.11b/g Atheros WiFi card (thanks for the no-1802 hack)
14.1" XGA screen with "T41" sticker
DVD-RW drive
Debian 8 Jessie operating system
9-cells extended battery (unfortunately only with Sanyo cells)

Almost in the mint condition, only shine is visible slightly on the keyboard and in the LCD lid corners.
The system runs perfectly cool and fan is being engaged only under heavier load.