770Z CPU Upgrade Problems - PIII 500, 100MHz Mem, 127 Error

[pkiff]

I finally decided to take the plunge and try to upgrade my PII 366MHz 770Z to a PIII 500MHz. Unfortunately, I am getting the 127 Error on bootup. The computer will continue to boot if I type ESC at the error screen, then wait for the next error screen, then type ESC then F1. I had hoped however to get the thing to boot cleanly without any error messages.

Since everything seems to work fine once I get through the boot sequence, I assume that I installed all the pieces correctly. Also, running a full test with Easy-Setup shows up all parts as "OK". I assume that I've either neglected to do something or I've used parts that are somehow incompatible.

Process so far:
Replaced original PII 366MHz CPU with a non-speedstep Intel PIII 500MHz. Replaced onboard 64MB 66MHz motherboard memory with 128MB 100MHz memory. Removed all other memory chips, so I am working with the base memory only.

Problems Resetting UUID/Initializing:
I had read somewhere that when you replace the CPU you should initialize it or change the UUID or something. I don't understand what the "initialize" function in the IBM Easy-Setup (BIOS) does, but I have tried to use that a couple times with no apparent effect. I've also tried to use a Hardware Maintenance Disk to reset my UUID, but it doesn't want to change it for some reason. I've erased all the serial number data and added new data back in, also with no apparent effect on the 127 error.

Details of Parts Used:

Intel PIII 500MHz Non-Speedstep CPU:
PML50002001AA

IBM branded Hyundai 128MB memory chip:
FRU: 20L0265
P/N: 20L0255
128MB 100MHz (16MX64) 3.3V S N

Any suggestions?

Phil.

[mdbrown]

That's normal. My 770x does the same thing. You will go through this at every boot. Esc-F1 then you are fine. BTW, I'm not sure on the z but I do know on the x the cache is not activated so I had to download the powerleap configuration utility to activate mine, made a huge difference in speed. Good luck.

[pkiff]

I guess I had the impression that some people might have managed the upgrade in a way that allowed the PIII to boot clean without needing keystrokes to bypass any POST errors. Is there no way to make the PIII upgrade boot cleanly in a 770Z?

I'm not sure I will stick with the upgrade if that is the case -- I intend to stick this 770Z into a SelectaDock III with a new graphics and sound card and I doubt all those Dock configs will be happy with this boot error stuff.

Phil.

[pkiff]

After quite a bit of searching around the net for info on BIOSes and whatnot, I stumbled across a posting in another discussion forum where a user named Sharedoc seemed to have succeeded in eliminating the 127 error on boot in a ThinkPad 600E by editing a particular bit in the CMOS.

As mdbrown and others have pointed out, the 127 error is apparently related to the L2 cache, which is either not recognized properly or not initialized properly by the BIOS after you switch from a PII to a PIII.

It is unclear if this Sharedoc character was successful in getting everything else to work on a 600E, but the 770Z does not face all the same problems as the 600E since we can replace the motherboard memory to match to the 100MHz bus speed of the PIII. And the posting certainly makes me wonder if in fact someone (with more skill than me) would be able to locate the appropriate bit in the 770Z CMOS to change in order to disable the L2 cache and thereby eliminate the 127 error on boot. Then the L2 cache could be reenabled by the OS using one of those cache utilities after booting up clean, without requiring any keystrokes.

Here is a link to the discussion in the wimsbios.com Forum:
IBM Thinkpad 600E bios mod for processor update

And here is the relevant quote:

Finnally I got rid of annoying 127 error in bios post. The trick was to edit CMOS byte 20 to value 0A (Originally 02). It seems that bit 5 controls L1 cache and bit 4 controls L2 cache.

Obviously playing around with editing BIOS/CMOS stuff would be asking for trouble and could easily result in a destroyed motherboard, if not worse. But doesn't this seem like it might work?

Phil.

[pkiff]

BREAKING NEWS!

I am now the proud owner of a 770Z PIII 500MHz which boots clean with base 128MB memory running at 100MHz. No keystrokes required.

The solution I used was posted by Sharedoc over at wimsbios.com Forum [links to Forum index, specific link to update thread appears below].

I take no responsibility if anyone tries this and screws up their motherboard, and I would not necessarily recommend that someone with my level of computer skills get into the habit of editing their CMOS, but in my specific case, with my specific machine, the process described worked flawlessly, and exactly as described.

WARNING:
EDITING YOUR CMOS CAN PERMANENTLY DAMAGE YOUR LAPTOP!
PROCEED AT YOUR OWN RISK!
IBM Thinkpad 600E bios mod for processor update

Here again are my machine specs:

ThinkPad:
770Z 9549-8BU
BIOS: IOET23WW

CPU:
Intel PIII 500MHz Non-Speedstep CPU
P/N: PML50002001AA

Memory on Motherboard:
128MB 100MHz (16MX64) 3.3V S N
IBM-branded Hyundai chip
FRU: 20L0265
P/N: 20L0255
- Removed all other memory from computer

I will post more info on the CPU update and benchmark specs over the next couple weeks, but I thought everyone would like to know about the basic solution right away.

Phil.

[sickofit]

pkiff....

When you get into the hex editor.....is it that screen you change????...aas pushing F7 takes me to different screens...the first screen is called BASE 128 CMOS is this the one i want to do changes on???....now on the side it goes by 10's,down....and goes by 1's across the top....was it 20 on the side and 2 across the top????

Thanks....

Greg St.L

[pkiff]

WARNING: THIS POSTING CONTAINS INFORMATION ABOUT EDITING YOUR CMOS. THIS IS RISKY AND MAY CAUSE PERMANENT DAMAGE TO YOUR THINKPAD. I TAKE NO RESPONSIBILITY FOR ANY DAMAGE RESULTING FROM ANY OF THE INSTRUCTIONS LISTED HERE.

From Sharedoc's explanation over at wimsbios.com:

When you boot, you get bios post error 127. Then you shoud do the following:
Choose "test", choose "exit", choose "config", hit "ctrl-d", opens bios hex-editor. Take cursor to position 20, key "02" -> "0A", hit "F2", hit "esc", choose "exit", choose "ok", and reboot.
Next boot should go without error-127

Choose "test", choose "exit", choose "config", hit "ctrl-d", opens bios hex-editor.

So, in Sharedoc's sequence, after I hit <CTRL>+D, I am in the built-in IBM ThinkPad BIOS hex editor: the screen changes to white text on black background and has a title: "System Configuration Edit Utility".

The first screen showing has an orange text subtitle on the left: "Base 128 CMOS". THAT is the screen where you want to make the single edit change. Pressing F7, F8, PgDn, or PgUp at that screen will take you to a different part of your CMOS/BIOS. Don't press F7 or anything else except the arrow keys when the editor first shows up. You just want to work on the first page that opens up when you first hit <CTRL>+D.

It should look something like this, with a two-character-wide column under each hexadecimal character, and the background colour of the two-character columns alternate light blue and white backgrounds with black text on both. Each pair of XX's below represents a hexadecimal value. The value at row 20 and column 0 on my ThinkPad 770Z and on Sharedoc's 600E was originally 02 (and that's a zero, not an "OH"). Here is a diagram indicating where this value should be located:

Code: Select all

    0  1  2  3  4  5  6  7  8  9  A  B  C  D  E  F 
00 XX XX XX XX XX XX XX XX XX XX XX XX XX XX XX XX
10 XX XX XX XX XX XX XX XX XX XX XX XX XX XX XX XX
20 ** XX XX XX XX XX XX XX XX XX XX XX XX XX XX XX 
30 XX XX XX XX XX XX XX XX XX XX XX XX XX XX XX XX
40 XX XX XX XX XX XX XX XX XX XX XX XX XX XX XX XX
50 XX XX XX XX XX XX XX XX XX XX XX XX XX XX XX XX
60 XX XX XX XX XX XX XX XX XX XX XX XX XX XX XX XX
70 XX XX XX XX XX XX XX XX XX XX XX XX XX XX XX XX

Take cursor to position 20, key "02" -> "0A"

You should be able to move the cursor immediately to the correct location using your arrow keys, just by pressing Arrow-Down twice. The cursor should then be at "02" located where the two asterisks are in the diagram above. Change this "02" to "0A". To do this, simply type "0A" (again, that's a zero, not an "OH") and it should replace whatever is at your cursor. If your ThinkPad does not display "02" at this location originally, then I wouldn't touch it: either you are looking at the wrong location, or your BIOS is different than mine and Sharedoc's.

hit "F2"

Pressing F2 will save the change you just made and write it to the CMOS. Note that it is not F7, but F2, just at Sharedoc says.

hit "esc", choose "exit", choose "ok", and reboot.

<ESC> exits the System Configuration Edit Utility (Hex Editor).
Choose "Exit", takes you out of the "Config" area and back to the main Easy-Setup screen
Here, I actually choose Restart, then OK, instead of the order Sharedoc describes. Hitting "Restart" then throws up a screen asking "OK?". Then Hitting OK on that screen will reboot your machine with the changes.

Next boot should go without error-127

Mine did exactly that. It rebooted without the 127 error, directly into Windows 98SE. And then the Powerleap utility enabled the L2 cache on startup, as I had configured it to do.

Phil.

[sickofit]

PKIFF.....YOU DA MAN !!!!!......Mine was a 770X with the 500 PIII upgrade....in my table it was a 00 not 02...but I decided to try anyway,and it now boots with no errors!!!!!

SWEET!!!!

Thanks for taking the time to draw the table up,helped out alot...as I was trying the wrong one the first time,I was going by the 2 at the top...good thing I was writing down the values before I changed them.....so i just changed them back...

Also thanks for the PM offering to guide me through it on the phone,but i've got her now!!!!

Thanks again....

Greg St.L

[pkiff]

That's what I think! Sweeeet!

But if it's working for you, then you owe the greatest thanks to this Sharedoc character over at wimsbios.com, since they did all the actual work of examining the ThinkPad 600E BIOS registers, locating, disassembling and interpreting various key code snippets, and then finally identifying the actual CMOS bit which controls the L2 cache. All I did was infer the 770Z connection to the 600E CMOS and then copy what Sharedoc did.

By the way, I suspect that the right code for you might be "08" instead of "0A". I think the 0A represents the hexadecimal value for 00001010. And if I understand correctly, the first "1" that appears in that sequence (reading from left to right) is the bit which controls the L2 cache. I think this is the "fourth bit" (reading from right to left) that Sharedoc says controls the L2 cache. If I'm right, then, when this bit equals 0, the L2 cache is enabled (default, normal). So my original binary value for that series is 00000010, which is 02 in hexadecimal. When I turn the L2 bit "on", I make that bit equal 1 by changing the binary value to 00001010, which is 0A in hexadecimal, and then the L2 cache is disabled.

So, if you started with "00" instead of "02", then I think that means you had 00000000 in there originally. So there is a difference in our default setups: I had 00000010 on my 770Z where you had 00000000 on your 770X. I don't know what that different bit controls, but if you want to keep yours the same as before instead of switching it to the 770Z/600E setting, then you might be able to leave it at zero and switch only the L2 cache bit. To do this, I think you want to have a final binary value of 00001000, which equals 08 in hexadecimal. If I were you, I'm not sure that I would fiddle with anything if everything is working now, but if you run into problems, you might consider trying to use the value "08" instead of the value "0A" in that location.

Or maybe in all your earlier fiddling with the machine, you accidentally enabled/disabled some other item which is controlled by that extra bit, and now that your PIII is skipping the boot error, you might want that item renabled again. I'm not sure. [And really, I shouldn't be giving advice about editing the CMOS, since just a week ago I knew absolutely nothing about it!]

Regardless, I'm glad it seems to be working for you now.

Phil.

[shined]

After I upgraded the CPU of my TP770X to PIII-500, my TP770X could
no longer boot from a CD, as I reported in the thread at the top of this forum,
'The official 770 Upgrade and general information Topic'

However, a Japanese guy discovered that after changing the CMOS data
in his TP600E and TP770Z retrofitted with PIII to eliminate the 127 error,
his machines could boot from CD. It's a kind of positive side effect of
127 error elimination.

This information may be important, especially for those who don't
have a FDD or an external FDD caddy as the CD booting capability
greatly simplifies the OS installation process.

[pkiff]

Interesting. I did not check whether my 770Z could boot from CD before applying the CMOS edit, but I can confirm that my 770Z does boot from CD correctly now (with new PIII 500MHz CPU and with CMOS edited to remove 127 error).

Phil.

[pkiff]

Also, one other item related to the upgrade. Shined indicated that after the upgrade, if they tested the memory using the built-in test routines of the ThinkPad Configuration Utitlity (i.e. Easy-Setup), they would get an error. I did not experience this error after upgrading my CPU and replacing the 64MB 66MHz motherboard memory with a 128MB 100MHz stick. However, I DO get this error now, after installing an additional two 100MHz memory sticks (128MB and 256MB) in the standard memory slots. This memory functions correctly despite the error which appears if I try to test it using the ThinkPad Configuration Utility tests.

I suspect that this error has to do with installing a 256MB chip, which the built-in memory tests are unable to test properly.

Regardless, I think this error can be safely ignored.

The specific error I get when I try to test the memory now is:
DEV 002
ERR 83
FRU 2010

The machine still POSTs fine and does not indicate any error during boot up. This error only shows up if I select TEST from the BIOS menu.

Phil.

[ndoggfromhell]

Stupid Powerleap Cache Utility won't work now. It worked before, but now it says "Failure: Start Service" then "An error occured when opening the driver. Please check file pwlp.sys"

Any solutions ??? Anyone else even have this problem?

Thanks
Nate

[HoffCh]

Hello,

everyone says that you can change the CPU of the Thinkpad 770Z into a Pentium III. Can I use all Pentium III models(from 400MHz to 1 GHz) with full speed or is there a limit? And where can I buy the right CPUs? Can I use every Pentium III CPU of a notebook or are there differents?

Thanks
Christian Hoff

[pkiff]

Christian:

The 770Z (like the 770X) uses an "MMC-2" module that the CPU is attached to. You can only attach a PIII if it is on an MMC-2 module. The fastest MMC-2 CPU made by Intel was a PIII 850MHz. Those will currently cost you over $100 USD minimum, possibly over $200 USD...if you can even find one. PIII 750MHz or 700MHz are available for a reasonable price.

Correction added a couple hours later:
Ooops, Christian, I forgot to mention that if you use a PIII 650 or higher, that you will have trouble getting it to run at its maximum speed. MMC-2 PIII 650+ are SpeedStep CPUs, but the 770Z does not have the requisite SpeedStep hardware on its motherboard, so these CPUs will run at their LOWER SpeedStep speed, which I think is 150MHz less than their maximum (i.e. an 800 will run at 650, a 750 will run at 600). There may be ways of forcing the CPU to run at the higher speed, but that will involve soldering things onto one of these MMC-2 boards. Not something for the faint of heart or unsteady of hand. For what it's worth, I'm very happy with the PIII 500MHz upgrade that I did and that upgrade does not require any soldering or anything, and shouldn't cost much more than $25-30 USD plus shipping for the CPU.

For more information about the MMC-2, check out the MMC-2 section of Mobile CPU Mania over at Tom's Hardware Guide.

If you want to upgrade your 770Z CPU, then I would recommend reading in full The official 770 Upgrade and general information Topic stickied at the top of the 600/770 section of the ThinkPads.com Forums. I think upgrading the 770X/Z series is fun, but it is also a bit of work -- it involves a significant amount of disassembly of your laptop. And because the 770Z was not designed for a PIII chip, you will run into the problems explained in the thread you are reading right now.

I would recommend doing some further reading in this forum and then beginning a new thread with any specific questions you have, before you make the plunge, unless you are already familiar with the quirks of the 770Z CPU upgrade process.

Happy upgrading!

Phil.

[HoffCh]

Thank you very much for this info! I have read the thread in the Thinkpad forum and it did help me very much. Thanks for the great info about the CPUs that can be used and Speedstep!

But I forgot to ask how to open the case of the Thinkpad. Does anyone know where I can get this information?

Thanks
Christian

[pkiff]

Hardware Maintenance Manual (January 1999) - ThinkPad 770

Also, check out the ThinkPads.com FAQ for answers to these questions, and more!

Phil.