Why the ThinkPad P50/P70s have a failed design *pictures*

[brchan]

Personally, I have never had a problem with hitting the windows key by accident. Also, it is often configured for many useful keyboard shortcuts in WIndows and Linux so I don't really see it as a con.

[lophiomys]

that's OK.
It would be easy to make this feature optional.

[pianowizard]

Going from the T60 NMB ThinkPad keyboard to any cheap chiclet is like going from semi-weighted to non-weighted

Like I said, I disagree. My highest typing speed that I have measured on my favorite keyboard (the Logitech Illuminated Keyboard K740) is 139 WPM, so achieving 108 WPM on that new-to-me chiclet keyboard while standing and without any practice isn't too shabby. For me, downgrading from the best computer keyboard to a cheap chiclet keyboard would be analogous to going from the best Steinway to a cheap-though-weighted digital piano, e.g. the $600 Casio PX-130 digital piano in my office. I am not talking about the difference in sound quality, which is of course night and day, but rather how comfortable my fingers feel. Yes, these two pianos' keyboards feel very extremely different, but my point is that I can adapt quickly, and most pianists probably can as well because they have learned to adapt.

If you really want a computer analogy to a non-weighted music keyboard, it would be a full-sized touchscreen keyboard. I must slow down dramatically, or else I would hit tons of wrong keys/notes. Tiny smartphone keyboards would be analogous to toy pianos for toddlers.

Personally, I have never had a problem with hitting the windows key by accident. Also, it is often configured for many useful keyboard shortcuts in WIndows and Linux so I don't really see it as a con.

I see the Windows key as a huge pro, especially in Windows 10. Folks who hit the Windows key by accident should learn how to type!

[Ibthink]

It would be easy to make this feature optional.

No, it wouldn´t be easy.

a.) Microsoft mandates the Windows key to be present on all machines

b.) Most people do not mind the windows key, or they even like having one (its useful for some many key combos), only a very tiny minority actually doesn´t want one. For this tiny minority, the manufacturer would have to make a seperate keyboard part. But not just one, many, as they would need to be available in all common language layouts. And then even more parts, because of options like backlit/non-backlit. And all of these parts need to be kept in stock for warranty repairs, which also costs a lot of money.

So the manufacturer would end up burning a lot of money for an option basically 0.1 % of customers want. Which is insane for a business. Windows keys / super keys are standard these days on PCs. Accept it (or not, but that doesn´t mean the manufacturer will make a keyboard without a Windows key just for you). Or buy a desktop keyboard without a Windows key.

[lophiomys]

There it is again: the can't do mentiality. (From people, who do - NOT. With greetings from Borat.)

On the other hand this manufacturer would miss a lot of their customer's money.

And most important: WHO CARES was M$ says!
Everything else but Windoze is the future.

Good Night and Good Luck.

[micrex22]

Like I said, I disagree. My highest typing speed that I have measured on my favorite keyboard (the Logitech Illuminated Keyboard K740) is 139 WPM, so achieving 108 WPM on that new-to-me chiclet keyboard while standing and without any practice isn't too shabby. For me, downgrading from the best computer keyboard to a cheap chiclet keyboard would be analogous to going from the best Steinway to a cheap-though-weighted digital piano, e.g. the $600 Casio PX-130 digital piano in my office. I am not talking about the difference in sound quality, which is of course night and day, but rather how comfortable my fingers feel. Yes, these two pianos' keyboards feel very extremely different, but my point is that I can adapt quickly, and most pianists probably can as well because they have learned to adapt.

Ah, but going from a ThinkPad (IBM style) keyboard to anything else you lose features. You lose your 7-rows, you lose your integrated numpad (I do use it!), you lose the forward / backward keys (I don't use them very often but hey they're nice to have), you lose the 'crispness' of the NMB mechanism, you lose the nice feeling of the taller non-chiclet keycaps. Which is my point of losing aftertouch and weights in the equivalent music keyboard realm.

So if I 'adapt', as previously mentioned it's an adaption with a compromise because you're losing features. I *can* use a keyboard without aftertouch, I *can* use a keyboard without weights. But why? I want all of the features and the best possible experience.

I take it you've never tried an IBM Model F capacitive keyboard; if you did you'd never want to touch a K740 again, I guarantee it (people often don't know what they're missing/want until they've experienced it). One advantage of the Model Fs is that they actually have unlimited key rollover: useful if you're lazy and what to play some basic chords on a computer keyboard in a DAW for sound previews. Or heck, gaming that requires multiple keys. Of course some don't appreciate the spring resonance that emanates from the result of using springs for the tactile switch, but I think it's just right.

---
The Windows key is an arrogant concept, and shows that Microsoft bullies OEMs. The ethics behind it bother me and IBM was one of the few OEMs to flip MS the finger on the T4x by not adding it. Plus, removing it would allow 'Ctrl' and 'Alt' to be larger as they should be. It otherwise doesn't bother me, and if it did I would have cut the trace that goes to it.

[bit_twiddler]

http://www.pckeyboard.com/page/category/UKBD

or

http://www.modelfkeyboards.com/

Now, we just have to figure out how to put one in a laptop!

The Windows key was Microsoft's attempt to provide a way to put more meta keys
on a keyboard. It's handy if you want to map "meta" or "super" from one of these:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space-cadet_keyboard

So, they were just trying to be helpful...

[ajkula66]

The Windows key is an arrogant concept

Very well put.

Plus, removing it would allow 'Ctrl' and 'Alt' to be larger as they should be.

+1

[Summilux]

a.) Microsoft mandates the Windows key to be present on all machines.

Microsoft has no say regarding machines which do not feature any Microsoft software.

[dr_st]

The Windows key is very useful. Hitting the Windows key by accident is only a problem in fullscreen games. Hence, many gaming keyboard have a hardware feature to disable it. There are simple utilities (like Winkill) that can do it in software (you can toggle it on and off). There is no need to have the key physically removed from the keyboard.

[Ibthink]

Microsoft has no say regarding machines which do not feature any Microsoft software.

Sorry, but I don´t get this point. Every ThinkPad model is sold with Windows, except for a few Chromebooks here and there.

Sure, not every sold ThinkPad will be used or even delivered with Windows, but Windows is the standard option for all models.

[Summilux]

Sorry, but I don´t get this point. Every ThinkPad model is sold with Windows, except for a few Chromebooks here and there.

Sure, not every sold ThinkPad will be used or even delivered with Windows, but Windows is the standard option for all models.

I meant that if Lenovo were to offer special Thinkpads with no Windows key and no optional Windows OS, then Microsoft wouldn't be able to object anything.

I'm all for the Windows key, by the way. It's a very useful feature which can also be used with other OSes.

[kony]

Windows key is very useful for me (I set it up to start terminal), but I wish it actually wasn't a "Windows" key but "Whatever else" key. I mean, I do not use any Microcrap products, and yet I have this stupid logo on my laptop reminding me I cannot entirely escape from this annoying company and software, even if it's just a logo on a keyboard. Tried to put a sticker on it, but it doesn't feel right. The key either should have no logo or have something OS-neutral. In Windows it could work as a Windows key, but in Linux it can always be configured anyway as I did.

[micrex22]

Windows key is very useful for me (I set it up to start terminal), but I wish it actually wasn't a "Windows" key but "Whatever else" key. I mean, I do not use any Microcrap products, and yet I have this stupid logo on my laptop reminding me I cannot entirely escape from this annoying company and software, even if it's just a logo on a keyboard. Tried to put a sticker on it, but it doesn't feel right. The key either should have no logo or have something OS-neutral. In Windows it could work as a Windows key, but in Linux it can always be configured anyway as I did.

You may be able to replace the windows key on an English one with an 'alt' or 'context' key from a Japanese one. Would you like me to confirm? (assuming this is regarding A T6x series one)