T42 ThinkPad's with gray Fn-keys!?! *PIC*

[portsample]

Several 15.4" T61s with grey F keys have just popped up on eBay.



I've never seen these before. European?
Is this a T61, or something else?
The touchpad rim has a funny bevel...

[Johan]

... it's a 15" T42. Try use Google and search for T42, and ask for showing only images... there you'll see many T42's with these grey Fn-keys.

Do you have a link to the site where you took that image from?

Edit: I just found a couple of images myself (on eBay) showing these grey-Fn-key T42's... here and here... and there it surely says "T42" so don't know where you got the 15.4" T61-information from?

Johan

[TPFanatic]

T42s and many prior IBM Thinkpads had gray Fn and Browser keys.

Granted that the manufacturers are the same, you can put the gray keycaps of older keyboards on the Lenovo keyboards, like this T60 from the T6x mods thread: http://i.imgur.com/FBNtxw4.jpg

[brchan]

The T4* and T30 models all had grey function keys at the top. On T60 - T61 (and probably T400/T500) keyboards, you can actually swap the black function keys for the grey ones on the T4* keyboard, provided that they are both NMB boards.

[Neil]

This seems to be the listing in question that portsample is referring to: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Lenovo-think-pa ... SwyQtV25ba

It's not just the picture that doesn't match the item description!

Same seller is also offering a T60p with the exact same picture of the T42 in the T61 listing: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Lenovo-T60P-14- ... SwyQtV25ba

And a 14" T60...same picture: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Lenovo-ThinkPad ... SwjVVV20Op

As well as a T42 that is likely the one in the picture: http://www.ebay.com/itm/15-IBM-T42-THIN ... Swl8NVYVbH

Probably thinks a ThinkPad is a ThinkPad...

[PowerPC]

A T6x keyboard can have T4x Fn and Back/Forward keys (also Caps Lock, I think) installed, provided that both keyboards are NMB, and you transfer the key cap and the "scissors".

To get colored mouse buttons, a mod is required.

[FryPpy]

A T6x keyboard can have T4x Fn and Back/Forward keys (also Caps Lock, I think) installed, provided that both keyboards are NMB, and you transfer the key cap and the "scissors".

I know that there was separate topic about gray keys on T6x keyboards, but i can't find it in 5 seconds.. So i post my question here.

What T4x size keyboard is needed to transfer keys (key caps) to T6x keyboard? 14", 15" or any? Maybe R5x keyboards are acceptable for this mod too?

[ajkula66]

May be R5x keyboards are acceptable for this mod too?

T4x and R5x keyboards are one and the same...

[micrex22]

A T6x keyboard can have T4x Fn and Back/Forward keys (also Caps Lock, I think) installed, provided that both keyboards are NMB, and you transfer the key cap and the "scissors".

To get colored mouse buttons, a mod is required.

They can also be Chicony and ALPS (at least I've confirmed swapping Chicony keycaps works okay, presumably the same for ALPS).

[PowerPC]

They can also be Chicony and ALPS (at least I've confirmed swapping Chicony keycaps works okay, presumably the same for ALPS).

An aggravating amount of bending of the little "hooks" that hold the keys in place is necessary to make the Chicony *4* keys fit into a *6* keyboard. I know, I'm typing this in my Chicony T60 with *4* gray keys - and Caps Lock too. Chicony *4* Caps required filing the bottom of the keycap in order to make it fit. With NMB keys, like I said before, the procedure is plug and play if you transfer the scissors as well.
I actually like the Chicony keyboards because the key clicks are "louder" than in an NMB.

A huge (almost 2MB) JPG photo of the result in my Chicony keyboard is available here. If you zoom in you can see the small misalignment in Caps Lock I told you about.

[micrex22]

They can also be Chicony and ALPS (at least I've confirmed swapping Chicony keycaps works okay, presumably the same for ALPS).

An aggravating amount of bending of the little "hooks" that hold the keys in place is necessary to make the Chicony *4* keys fit into a *6* keyboard. I know, I'm typing this in my Chicony T60 with *4* gray keys - and Caps Lock too. Chicony *4* Caps required filing the bottom of the keycap in order to make it fit. With NMB keys, like I said before, the procedure is plug and play if you transfer the scissors as well.
I actually like the Chicony keyboards because the key clicks are "louder" than in an NMB.

A huge (almost 2MB) JPG photo of the result in my Chicony keyboard is available here. If you zoom in you can see the small misalignment in Caps Lock I told you about.

I didn't have that issue at all:
http://thinkpads.com/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 44#p765387

The chicony keycaps were plug and play for the ones I used (also keep in mind the T60 and T61 chicony keyboards will use different FRUs).

I don't like the Chicony boards due to the less travel they have. Although the later NMB keyboards have a similar inertia (maybe you'd like later NMB boards better than chicony ones).

[brchan]

Do the chicony models actually have less travel on the classic keyboards, and by how much? Lenovo only mentioned the chiclet keyboards as having less depth.

[TPFanatic]

edit: I have discovered that my Z60m's keyboard is an ALPS, not an NMB! I am dumb.

I've touched:
T500 w/ Lenovo Chicony -> Side to side wobbly keys, minimal force to push down, soft TP buttons. (Flexible)
T500 w/ Lenovo ALPS -> Firm keys, more force to push down, hard TP buttons. (Flexible)
W500 w/ Lenovo NMB -> Firm keys, loud and clicky, minimal travel, soft TP buttons. (Flexible)
Z60m w/ Lenovo ALPS -> Firm keys, more force to push down, hard TP buttons.
T42p w/ IBM NMB -> Side to side wobbly keys, minimal force to push down, soft TP buttons.
T42p w/ IBM non-NMB -> Too much force to push down, that's all I can remember.

So, between IBM and Lenovo's Flexible T500 NMB keyboards, the side-to-side key wobble was eliminated. This is because the T500 NMB keyboards use a different scissor switch design different from IBM T42p's NMB, and keys are not transferabble. I have not used a T6X era NMB keyboard, which is proven to use the same scissors as IBM NMB. So the T500 era NMB is an oddball and may be found to be the inferiorest of NMBs!

[quote=Original post]
In my experience, the NMB keyboards I've used (Lenovo T500 and IBM T42p) have a lighter touch. but the spacebar slides left-right around more and backspace is noisier than on what I presume to be my T500's Chicony.

The key travel seems to be the same between the Lenovo NBM and Chicony keyboards, but on the T42p I recall the NMBs having less key travel. I had the misfortune of typing on a non-NBM T42p keyboard, I don't know if it was a Cichony or an ALPs, and it was horrible, the key travel was long and required too much force to push down. Other users may describe it as mushy.

Another difference between Lenovo keyboards is the Trackpoint buttons. On my Z60m's NMB there is an audible click sound pushing down the trackpoint buttons, they are stiffer, and they require more force to push down. My T500's Cichony's trackpoint buttons are soft and require minimal force to push down. I tried another non-NBM T500 keyboard where the trackpoint buttons were stiff like NMB - maybe that one's an ALPS.[/quote]

[PowerPC]

I didn't have that issue at all:
http://thinkpads.com/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 44#p765387

The chicony keycaps were plug and play for the ones I used (also keep in mind the T60 and T61 chicony keyboards will use different FRUs).

I would like to know, for reference, the FRUs that you used in your mod.

[micrex22]

The key travel seems to be the same between the Lenovo NBM and Chicony keyboards, but on the T42p I recall the NMBs having less key travel. I had the misfortune of typing on a non-NBM T42p keyboard, I don't know if it was a Cichony or an ALPs, and it was horrible, the key travel was long and required too much force to push down. Other users may describe it as mushy.

The later NMB keyboards (T61) have less travel almost identical to chicony variants. So there is this bottoming-out sensation on both that's not to my liking. Regardless, beats any other crappy keyboard and I have a bunch of NOS T61 NMB keyboards so I have spares years down the road when NOS ones aren't available anymore.
I really do like how the ALPS ones feel though... they have the clickiest trackpoint buttons.

I didn't have that issue at all:
http://thinkpads.com/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 44#p765387

The chicony keycaps were plug and play for the ones I used (also keep in mind the T60 and T61 chicony keyboards will use different FRUs).

I would like to know, for reference, the FRUs that you used in your mod.

I'd have to see if I still have them (I could have thrown them out by now). Had I known there was a FRU difference I would have taken a look more closely. Can you tell me the FRUs you used? We might be able to figure something out if I have indeed thrown them out.
--I do know that the chicony T43 FRU was one for a 15.1" T43P.

[brchan]

The key travel seems to be the same between the Lenovo NBM and Chicony keyboards, but on the T42p I recall the NMBs having less key travel. I had the misfortune of typing on a non-NBM T42p keyboard, I don't know if it was a Cichony or an ALPs, and it was horrible, the key travel was long and required too much force to push down. Other users may describe it as mushy.

I also have a T43 with NMB keyboard. The keys feel shallower and softer than other thinkpad NMB boards, but perhaps the Thai made ones are different? Otherwise I don't think T4* keyboards are that great compared to the T6* ones.

I really do like how the ALPS ones feel though... they have the clickiest trackpoint buttons.

Definitely agree here. All the other NMB and Chicony trackpoint buttons ones have a rather soft touch.

[MrMaguire]

The person putting those listings up on eBay must be crazy... They're using that photo of the 15" T42 for several other non-T4x listings, and one listing for a T42 has a photo of a random person, which looks like it came from a social media site. They're also using a photo of a ThinkPad (T500, I think) to advertise a Dell Latitude E6400, and a photo from National Geographic for a Dell Inspiron 1200. Might as well, the Inspiron 1200 is a terrible laptop.

Their prices are ridiculous too... Doesn't look as if anything is actually selling.

I don't think they have actually taken any of these pictures.