T420 on it's way. Very simple request

[madcapwoodwright]

Hello all,

I'm new to the boards. I am currently in "research mode" as I have just ordered a refurb T420 from the egg. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... gnorebbr=1

It's nearly perfect for my needs, but for the hard drive. I wish to swap the 128 gig SSD that comes with it with this...
Crucial MX200 500GB SATA 2.5 Inch Internal Solid State Drive

I want to do this because I wish to configure the machine with dual boot (windows 7 and Linux distro) and want the extra head room that 500 gig can offer me.

Like I mentioned, I am researching how best to do this swap. I am assuming that I am going to have to clone the existing drive to migrate it to the new SSD. Correct? Most of the posts I am running across are ones where someone is trying to upgrade from a drive that is currently in use to a new drive. Since I am getting a machine that is delivered with a hypothetically clean install of Win7, I am hoping to find the easiest method of migrating what is currently on the machine to the proposed new , larger, SDD.

Can anyone point me to a very simple tutorial of how to do this?

I assure you I am indeed using the search function, but am hoping to find a very simple step by step that will work with a machine that is still virgin-ish vs. one that is getting upgraded after some use. Hope that this makes sense. Any and all help finding such a tutorial is very much appreciated.

EDIT TO MENTION:
This would be the first time I ever did any kind of hard drive swap. I normally buy a used laptop, and just load linux on to it, wiping out whatever Windows OS is there. This time, I need to keep the Win7 but want to dual boot. I also want the extra storage space onboard. Sorry if this seems like an FAQ, but I have been looking here and elsewhere, and it seems that I must assume that no recovery media or License key info will be comming with the machine. Therefore, my best bet was to clone the drive to the bigger SSD.

Im a little lost, but am knowledgable enough to be able to attempt this if I have a simple set of directions to follow. Hence my rather long winded request, thanks!

[RealBlackStuff]

Welcome to the forum.
You have another option: replace the Ultrabay CD-drive with an adapter to support a 2nd SATA drive (up to 1TB), such as this: http://www.ebay.com/itm/252062049141
You could install Linux there, or partition it for Linux plus general storage for W7 + Linux.

I'll leave the install-how-to to others.

[madcapwoodwright]

Welcome to the forum.
You have another option: replace the Ultrabay CD-drive with an adapter to support a 2nd SATA drive (up to 1TB), such as this: http://www.ebay.com/itm/252062049141
You could install Linux there, or partition it for Linux plus general storage for W7 + Linux.

I'll leave the install-how-to to others.

RBS,
Thanks! This was going to be a plan "B" if I couldnt find the info I was looking for. That said, I was "kind of" hoping to retain the DVD-RW as I am something of a linux distro junkie. (Burning iso disks of various linux flavors etc.) But yes, I will definately look at this opton as a real candidate.

As an aside, and at the risk of hijacking my own thread, I am also trying to find out is there are Crucial RAM upgrades available beyond the 8 gig (2x4gig) that is currently related as the max the machine accepts. Seems to me I read that you can load 2x8gig RAM on these machines with no muss or fuss....true?

[madcapwoodwright]

RBS,
That is a pretty slick little gadget there. I like the idea of dual hard drives. More investigation required!!!!

[madcapwoodwright]

UPDATE:

After doing some more searching, I have come to the conclusion that, If possible, I would prefer to do a "Clean install" of Win7. If I am getting a refurbished machine from "The EGG", will it come with the "product Key" for the OS?

If not, what is the preferred place to buy a fresh copy of Win7? Microsoft? Or are there better, less expensive options for obtaining a legal fresh copy?

[BillMorrow]

won't quote, just add that i use a 128gig sandisk thumb drive on my X1 for additional storage..
these things are TINY and not expensive.. might want to look into a few of those for additional OS's..
not sure how fast they would be loading an OS but have to be faster than a real HDD in a USB port..
then set the bios to boot from alternative sources and choose which one when booting..

[Cigarguy]

On my T420 I have a mSata 128 GB SSD running Linux Mint. The regular HDD bay have a 128 GB SSD running Win 7. The Ultrabay CD/DVD is swapped for a 1 TB HDD which is accessible by both/either OS and is used for all my data. This way everything is modular and is easy to back up.

You know about the Linux install. For the HDD SSD, IMO, a fresh install of Windows is best. For booting I set it in BIOS, if I'm in the mood for Linux I set the BIOS to boot from the mSata drive and vice versa. Sometimes I'll hit F12 on boot and choose the drive, hence OS, that I want.

It might sound like a lot of work but it's not. Fortunately Thinkpads have great hardware maintenance manuals (HMM) with step by step instructions on how to physically change hardware components. Along the way you'll learn lots too.

[madcapwoodwright]

thanks guys. So far, all good suggestions. I will grab the maintanance manuals asap.

Weird how I cant seem to find a simple way to move data from a virgin drive to a different drive easilly. Perhaps it is best to just buy another copy of WIN7 and load it to the new SSD and just be done with it.

[theterminator93]

I have OEM Windows 7 recovery disks for the T420 I can host or burn for you if you decide to go that route.

Clonezilla has a little bit of a learning curve to it (not THAT bad, really) but it can do disk-disk cloning.

I have an mSATA SSD for the primary OS on mine. Limited to SATA-II, yes, but at least a usable (and much faster than a platter disk) SSD in addition to the two 2.5" bays.

[jaspen-meyer]

I'll second Clonezilla http://www.clonezilla.org.
It can also do partition to partion cloning, and disk-to-image.
I recently was cloning a fresh linux install to hdd's at a rate of 1 drive every 4 minuets.

Adding an msata drive, just requires you remove the keyboard and palm rest, is reasonable.

Just clone the 128gb drive to the 500gb drive.
Then use gparted, run from a live cd, to set up partitions for your linux install and data.
Install Linux and let it use grub2 as the boot loader.

Btw, for testing distros get yourself a few 2gb usb drives. 'if' means input file and 'of' is output file:

Code: Select all

sudo dd if=testDistro.iso of=/dev/sdX

Worthwhile to check which drive's which before running that

Code: Select all

df -h

Re: using usb as linux OS drive
it's a usable solution but, if you don't tweak the system to avoid writing to disk, the write speed is an annoying bottleneck.
The system sometimes hangs, even if most writes are offloaded to a tempfs (ram) and using a usb3 drive. I have an 8gb usb3 drive with linux installed on it, used as a digital swiss army knife.

[madcapwoodwright]

I have OEM Windows 7 recovery disks for the T420 I can host or burn for you if you decide to go that route.

Clonezilla has a little bit of a learning curve to it (not THAT bad, really) but it can do disk-disk cloning.

I have an mSATA SSD for the primary OS on mine. Limited to SATA-II, yes, but at least a usable (and much faster than a platter disk) SSD in addition to the two 2.5" bays.

Terminator,

Thank you so much. After doing research, I think my best option is to go ahead and clone the drive. Since this machine is comming to me refurbished and without "bloatware" on it, that means that the OS is not from Lenovo Im told. Not a bad thing, but means that there is no recovery partition on the drive (?)

So, Clonezilla will be in my future. I wonder, are there any "stone simple" tutorials on the use of clonzilla? Im looking on youtube, but so far, it is all sounding like graduate level geek-speak to me. (NOT a put down BTW)

Ill keep looking, but if someone can point me to a good step-by-step for the cloning process, I would love it..

Thanks guys, All of you have been super patient and very helpful. its much appreciated.

[RealBlackStuff]

Clonezilla (or other copy-programs) are fine, but don't forget that you'll need a proper COA for making a Newegg OS-copy!
With a copy of a Lenovo-install it will activate automatically, as long as the receiving machine has Slic2.1 in BIOS.
(and doesn't need a COA really...)

[jaspen-meyer]

...so far, it is all sounding like graduate level geek-speak to me.

You want to do a "Disk to disk clone".

Read though the 'Disk to disk clone' steps and pictorial:
http://www.clonezilla.org/clonezilla-live-doc.php

To do a clone, with as little complication as possible, you'll need both drives (120 GB win7 & empty 500 GB) connected to one machine.

Youtube videos are often the blind leading the blind.
By the way, that "I'm in over my head" feeling never goes away, you know.

[bit_twiddler]

I have a little different setup than the others posted on this thread.
I have found that things install a little more cleanly if I just remove
ALL drives from the system, and install on a drive in an ultrabay caddy.

By doing this, the boot process is quite a bit simpler; there is no
possibility that Windows or Linux can clobber the other OS's boot sector, because
they each have their own. Furthermore, I can try out different Linux
distros at will without having to work around existing installations.
A lot of people wonder about weird behavior when Windows updates
itself. I have found that Windows (7, in my case) will typically
update the boot sector whenever it updates. So, if you rely on Grub,
you'll have to reinstall it to get Linux going again.

External USB DVD drives are available for under $30 on ebay,
and you can get a USB adapter to an ultrabay or Lenovo DVD drive.

I have a fairly large spinning hard drive in the main bay of my T420
and W520, and msata SSD drives in each. The reason for the hard
drive is to store virtual machines and a swap partition to reduce writes
to my msata or other SSD drive. I put my Linux users' home directories
on the msata drive, but I still keep less frequently used data on the
hard drive.

The biggest factor for me as far as performance goes is to reduce
spindle contention, and the msata drive does a great job
of that. But, just having multiple hard drives helps a lot, too, especially
with Linux. I have enough RAM in each machine so that most
of the time they are CPU-bound.

It's a custom setup, but it works well for me.

[jaspen-meyer]

...I have found that Windows (7, in my case) will typically
update the boot sector whenever it updates. So, if you rely on Grub,
you'll have to reinstall it to get Linux going again.
...

That's a hassle.

Keeping the OS's on seperate disks sounds like the easy solution and it's sustainable, i.e. get an msata drive for Linux.

[madcapwoodwright]

...I have found that Windows (7, in my case) will typically
update the boot sector whenever it updates. So, if you rely on Grub,
you'll have to reinstall it to get Linux going again.
...

That's a hassle.

Keeping the OS's on seperate disks sounds like the easy solution and it's sustainable, i.e. get an msata drive for Linux.

OK, So now upon further contemplation, I have another question. this may be what some of you all have been trying to get me to understand all along, but I am too thick to get it......

Would it make sense and/or be advantagous to leave the 128GB SSD that is comming with my new-to-me T420 alone, and add the 500GB Crucial SSD in the ultrabay? Run Win7 off the original drive, and my linux distro + storage off the 500GB drive in the ultrabay? I know I mentioned wanting to keep the DVD-RW for linux iso burns, but I like the idea of not having to muck about with cloning the drive, and that I will not be wasting the 128GB drive. If I read my research correctly, I can boot from the ultrabay SSD through BIOS correct? Selecting which drive I want to use depending on what application I am needing?

If all of the above suppositions are correct, What ancillary hardware would I need for the Crucial 500GB SSD? Do I need the caddy? Is there a preferred caddy for this application?

[madcapwoodwright]

On my T420 I have a mSata 128 GB SSD running Linux Mint. The regular HDD bay have a 128 GB SSD running Win 7. The Ultrabay CD/DVD is swapped for a 1 TB HDD which is accessible by both/either OS and is used for all my data. This way everything is modular and is easy to back up.

You know about the Linux install. For the HDD SSD, IMO, a fresh install of Windows is best. For booting I set it in BIOS, if I'm in the mood for Linux I set the BIOS to boot from the mSata drive and vice versa. Sometimes I'll hit F12 on boot and choose the drive, hence OS, that I want.

It might sound like a lot of work but it's not. Fortunately Thinkpads have great hardware maintenance manuals (HMM) with step by step instructions on how to physically change hardware components. Along the way you'll learn lots too.

Cigarguy,
I think that this is a version of what I just typed above, sorry for not picking up on this sooner. With the exception of the mSATA drive, I think what you are describing is what I am actually looking at doing. I.E. Leave my 128GB SSD that is comming in the new-to-me machine alone and running WIN7 on it, then get the Caddy and a 500GB SSD for the ultrabay. I can learn to write Linux distros to usb drives now that it IS 2016, and just keep the DVD-RW around for those times when I actually need it.

I think this makes sense, can anyone see problems with my logic.....other than it taking three or four people making this reccomendation to me and me just being a bit slow on the uptake?

[Cigarguy]

You're making this all too complicated. Keep it simple and concentrate on other important things in life. It sounds like to me you are scared of doing a fresh install of Win 7. About time to get over this and just do it. It's very simple, especially if you have a dedicated Windows drive and not have to worry about destroying anything else. Sure the first few Win 7 update after a fresh install takes a few days but so be it. You'll learn a lot and know for certain that you have a nice fresh clean install.

For the few times I need a CD/DVD drive a $20 used external USB CD/DVD drive works great and works with any of my other laptops.

In your shoes I'd leave the Win 7 HDD SSD as a Win 7 drive. Get a mSata for the Linux distro and a 1 TB HGST HDD for data in the Ultrabay. Everything will be modular while both Win 7 and Linux can see and access the common data. It's also cheap going this route with greater capacity than your proposed solution. Once everything is set up, there's nothing else for you to do except for picking OS at restart and use the machine. Your method of swapping USB drives and caddy whenever you want to do something sounds complicated and too much work for me. When you are ready for a simpler solution, at least you know you've got options.

At this stage, read some more and play around with it. All that you need to know with regard to your options is contained within this thread. You're lucky as the T420 will take a mSata drive, my T61 daily driver is limited to HDD and caddy only.

[madcapwoodwright]

You're making this all too complicated. Keep it simple and concentrate on other important things in life. It sounds like to me you are scared of doing a fresh install of Win 7. About time to get over this and just do it. It's very simple, especially if you have a dedicated Windows drive and not have to worry about destroying anything else. Sure the first few Win 7 update after a fresh install takes a few days but so be it. You'll learn a lot and know for certain that you have a nice fresh clean install.

For the few times I need a CD/DVD drive a $20 used external USB CD/DVD drive works great and works with any of my other laptops.

In your shoes I'd leave the Win 7 HDD SSD as a Win 7 drive. Get a mSata for the Linux distro and a 1 TB HGST HDD for data in the Ultrabay. Everything will be modular while both Win 7 and Linux can see and access the common data. It's also cheap going this route with greater capacity than your proposed solution. Once everything is set up, there's nothing else for you to do except for picking OS at restart and use the machine. Your method of swapping USB drives and caddy whenever you want to do something sounds complicated and too much work for me. When you are ready for a simpler solution, at least you know you've got options.

At this stage, read some more and play around with it. All that you need to know with regard to your options is contained within this thread. You're lucky as the T420 will take a mSata drive, my T61 daily driver is limited to HDD and caddy only.

agreed.
As far as the linux/usb issue, I ment that instead of burning dvds to load various distros, I can make bootable usb's to load the distro. That was the only reason for keeping the DVD-RW.

I take your point though. I think that your reccomendation is a good one, as it does afford the maximum amount of flexability.
Thanks again....BTW....and this IS kind of a dumb question.....where exactly does the mSATA get installed? under the keyboard next to the RAM? or elsewhere on the chassis?

[bit_twiddler]

There are a lot of ways to set up your machine, considering that it takes 3 drives (1 main + 1 msata + ultrabay).

This is a basic ultrabay that should work for you:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/300660454823?_t ... EBIDX%3AIT

The seller is knowledgeable about Thinkpads, I have bought a lot of stuff from him/her.

The important things about it are:

1. It is full height (12.7mm), although there aren't many full-height drives out there right now.
There is such a thing as an ultrabay slim, which only takes a 9.5mm drive, but it would leave
a gap on the side of your machine, which might bother you.

2. It has a plastic piece which snaps down to secure the drive. This is a lot better than a cheapo
unit that requires screws to secure the drive. The kit includes plastic (or rubber) pieces that
snap into screw holes on your drive to help secure it.

edit: This one is different, besides having the extra yellow plastic pieces, it has a thingamabob
on each of the sides. I've ordered one to try it out.

3. There is an insulation sheet inside the base of the bay which prevents the circuit board of the
drive from contacting metal.


If you want to spend a little more, a sponsor of this forum sells a higher quality unit which is actually
made out of a die-cast aluminum housing instead of stamped steel, and they sell a kit which
converts your DVD-writer into a portable USB device:

http://www.newmodeus.com/shop/index.php ... cts_id=392

There are also cables that you can get which turn your caddy into a USB drive, which is handy
if you want to copy the contents of a drive to another machine.

[Cigarguy]

I've switched to USB OS install for a few years now. Much faster and easier in my books. I only use a CD/DVD drive for BIOS updates. Can't remember the last time I used a CD/DVD for OS install.

As for replacing/adding mSata, HMM page 114 have a section on this. Dead simple.

[bit_twiddler]

As for replacing/adding mSata, HMM page 114 have a section on this. Dead simple.

That's right. I don't think you have to take the keyboard out on a T420, just the hatch on the bottom.

[madcapwoodwright]

I've switched to USB OS install for a few years now. Much faster and easier in my books. I only use a CD/DVD drive for BIOS updates. Can't remember the last time I used a CD/DVD for OS install.

As for replacing/adding mSata, HMM page 114 have a section on this. Dead simple.

Cigarguy....you sir....ROCK!!!

I'll be sure to check in to update on my progress. I'm going with leaving the win7 drive that is in the machine alone. Adding the msata, and 1tb HDD that you mentioned cigarguy. I think this makes for a hot little machine.

I had been doing the DVD/ISO method for so long. I had a Toshiba machine some time back that got stolen from my kitchen table...while we were sleeping!!!

Since then it's been tablets and smart phones for all my computing. Now, with me re-opening my woodworking studio, I need a machine that I can use for both design and bookkeeping. (Hence the need for Windows). Since I am a dyed in the wool Linux devotee, I wanted to run them both off the same machine.

I knew I wanted a thinkpad, and I knew the t420 was pretty bombproof and expandable/future proof able. I just needed a kick in the right direction regarding configuration. Amazon cart has the hardware loaded for the mods, and the machine should be here friday

EDIT TO SAY:

Bittwiddler...thank you, I know a little bit about a lot of stuff, just enough to be dangerous. Once I have the particulars of what I need, where it goes, and what to do to get everything singing from the same sheet of music, I am usually good to go, It just means I need to look like a pillock and ask some dumb questions sometimes to get the info. You guys...all of you....have been wonderful. I shall be dancing the dance of the linux distro junkie in no time I hope.

[jaspen-meyer]

What many of us are saying is, "Keep the 128 GB drive in the machine and add a second drive."

There are two options for a second drive:

option 1)
msata ssd drive. goes in machine under palm rest.
search newegg for 500 GB msata

option 2)
remove the dvd drive and replace it with something which looks like a dvd drive but is actually a holder for the a sata ssd. search ebay for 'sata 2nd hd'

[Cigarguy]

msata ssd drive. goes in machine under palm rest.

Not correct. Refer to HMM page 114 and 115.

[jaspen-meyer]

I don't think you have to take the keyboard out on a T420, just the hatch on the bottom.

I just checked on my T420.

On the T420 msata is NOT under the RAM cover. You to do very minor disassembly of the machine.

On the T420s the msata is under the RAM cover.

[Cigarguy]

On my T420 - 4236-FR6, the mSata is located exactly as shown in the HMM pg. 114 section "1220 mSata solid state drive"

[jaspen-meyer]

msata ssd drive. goes in machine under palm rest.

Not correct. Refer to HMM page 114 and 115.

Ah - I see. I stand corrected - the msata goes under the RAM plate.

In the slot HMM says is for the Msata I have an MC8355 Sierra Wireless AirPrime 3G card which I mistakingly assumed was my wifi card.

[Cigarguy]

jaspen-meyer - unless you are certain, maybe you shouldn't post and confuse everyone? WWAN, WLAN and mSata are completely different components.

You are correct in your assumption, I too have a X220, the mSata for X220 is located under the palm rest. The section in the X220's HMM on mSata is located on page 87.

[madcapwoodwright]

jaspen-meyer - unless you are certain, maybe you shouldn't post and confuse everyone? WWAN, WLAN and mSata are completely different components.

You are correct in your assumption, I too have a X220, the mSata for X220 is located under the palm rest. The section in the X220's HMM on mSata is located on page 87.

AND....for my future betterment, I now have the HMM loaded on my cranky little ASUS Transformer prime. Soon to be used exclusivly as a reference/reading material machine until I can figure out how to flash Android Marshmallow to it....but thats a different forum altogether.

OK guys, I will be sure to update once the Msata and the new 1tb hdd are installed in the new-to-me machine.

Cigarguy, just to be absolutely clear I am understanding your reccomendation, please confirm the plan as outlined below....well, and all over this post too...

1) Get the TP-t420 this Friday/Leave installed 128gb SSD alone
2) Install msata 128gb as per HMM pgs 114-115
3) install 1tbHDD/7200rpm + 2nd HDD caddy into optical drive ultrabay.
4) Leave WIN7 on original SSD
5) Linux distro loads to MSATA drive
6) Data storage etc. to HDD

THIS is what you have been trying to get me to see as the simplest means to the end I am looking for? Correct?

See....I told you I was a bit of a pillock, but just wanting to make sure I have it nailed down.