T410s, microSATA, mSATA questions, much confusion

[serpico]

I've got a T410s with a 1.8" SSD. My understanding is that 1.8" SSD's use a micro SATA connector. I also have an ultrabay adapter and have a 2.5" HDD inside it. My understanding is that 2.5" HDD's use a mini SATA connector. Therefore, I could connect a mini SATA 2.5 SSD to the ultrabay adapter?

Do all 2.5" SSD's use mini SATA connectors? I have a 2.5" SSD in my desktop and I thought that was a standard SATA connector.

I'm so confused!

What I'd like to do is:
1. upgrade my 120gb 1.8" SSD to a larger size, and that means going to 2.5" SSD to keep costs down. And I'd need a mSATA to microSATA adapter for this, correct?
2. if I want to replace the HDD in the ultrabay adapter with that 1.8" SSD, I'd need another adapter - microSATA to mSATA, correct?

OR, I could keep the 1.8" SSD as the primary drive and just get a 2.5" SSD for the ultrabay adapter - I'd just need to make sure it has a mSATA connector?

[RealBlackStuff]

Same as in X301, get one of these adapters: Mini PCIe PCI-e MSATA 3 x 5cm SSD To 1.8" Micro SATA Adapter Converter Card
plus an mSATA SSD such as this: http://www.ebay.com/itm/381146351947
The above adapter is currently not available but I'm sure other sellers have it too.

[Hans Gruber]

I have the same setup as RBS suggested in his post. My suggestion is to take a piece of Styrofoam and break a piece off and put it between the mSATA and HDD cover. This will prevent the mSATA from sliding out inside the HDD bay.

[TonyJZX]

This ^^... I have a 400s and I use a msata ssd in a little adapter card thats like a few bucks.

You do need a pair of pliers to get it into the slot and the meet the sata connector... and then you need some foam or whatever to secure the ssd in place as it does free float and require the sata connector to remain in place which is not very secure.

On the 410s and 420s etc. you then end up with a great boon... THREE storage possibilities.

msata which I would use as your booter drive.

the 2.5 7mm normal ssd and then buy an ultrabay hdd converter. That's a heap of storage options though I think that's an embarrasment of riches for most people...

[serpico]

Same as in X301, get one of these adapters: Mini PCIe PCI-e MSATA 3 x 5cm SSD To 1.8" Micro SATA Adapter Converter Card
plus an mSATA SSD such as this: http://www.ebay.com/itm/381146351947
The above adapter is currently not available but I'm sure other sellers have it too.

I have the same setup as RBS suggested in his post. My suggestion is to take a piece of Styrofoam and break a piece off and put it between the mSATA and HDD cover. This will prevent the mSATA from sliding out inside the HDD bay.

OK, so these sound like answers to my question about replacing the 1.8" SSD with a mSATA SSD. Are all 2.5" SSD's mSATA? Or do 2.5" SSD's come in mSATA and 'regular' SATA flavors?

Would a mSATA SSD fit in the ultrabay adapter currently occupied by a 2.5" HDD? Meaning, would they use the same style of SATA connector?

This ^^... I have a 400s and I use a msata ssd in a little adapter card thats like a few bucks.

You do need a pair of pliers to get it into the slot and the meet the sata connector... and then you need some foam or whatever to secure the ssd in place as it does free float and require the sata connector to remain in place which is not very secure.

On the 410s and 420s etc. you then end up with a great boon... THREE storage possibilities.

msata which I would use as your booter drive.

the 2.5 7mm normal ssd and then buy an ultrabay hdd converter. That's a heap of storage options though I think that's an embarrasment of riches for most people...

"2.5 7mm normal ssd" - So that's a 2.5" SSD that is not mSATA? What does the 7mm measure refer to?

How are you getting 3 storage possibilities? There's the hard drive bay and ultrabay. Doesn't every Thinkpad have those two bays? Am I missing something?

Sorry for all the questions guys. As mentioned in the OP, I am confused by the variety of SSD sizes and sata connectors.

[ajkula66]

Are all 2.5" SSD's mSATA? Or do 2.5" SSD's come in mSATA and 'regular' SATA flavors?

No. mSATA is mSATA and 2.5" SSDs have nothing to do with mSATA. Your machine can't use a 2.5" SSD apart from it being placed in the UltraBay which I would advise against.

Would a mSATA SSD fit in the ultrabay adapter currently occupied by a 2.5" HDD? Meaning, would they use the same style of SATA connector?

No. See what I wrote above.

How are you getting 3 storage possibilities? There's the hard drive bay and ultrabay. Doesn't every Thinkpad have those two bays? Am I missing something?

TonyJZX is incorrectly stating that a T410s has a mSATA slot on its own - which does hold true for T420/s and T430/s - apart from the main bay and ultrabay.

Sorry for all the questions guys. As mentioned in the OP, I am confused by the variety of SSD sizes and sata connectors.

Let me ask you this: how much space do you need and what's your intended price range? Then we'll take it from there.

[serpico]

Are all 2.5" SSD's mSATA? Or do 2.5" SSD's come in mSATA and 'regular' SATA flavors?

No. mSATA is mSATA and 2.5" SSDs have nothing to do with mSATA.

So for example, this Kingston Digital 120GB SSDNow V300 SATA 3 2.5 (7mm height) Solid State Drive (SV300S37A/120G) (http://www.amazon.com/Kingston-Digital- ... B00A1ZTZOG) is a 2.5" SSD that some people use in their laptops. So given your statement that 2.5" SSD's have nothing to do with mSATA, then this SSD is 'regular' SATA? So laptops can have 'regular' SATA, mSATA or microSATA connections in their hard drive bay?

Your machine can't use a 2.5" SSD apart from it being placed in the UltraBay which I would advise against.

Why do say that? I figured since SSD's are more shake/bump resistant than HDD's, it would be a good idea to have a SSD in the ultrabay over a HDD, even apart from the speed boost.

TonyJZX is incorrectly stating that a T410s has a mSATA slot on its own - which does hold true for T420/s and T430/s - apart from the main bay and ultrabay.

Ah, I see, not an extra internal bay, but an external port?

Sorry for all the questions guys. As mentioned in the OP, I am confused by the variety of SSD sizes and sata connectors.

Let me ask you this: how much space do you need and what's your intended price range? Then we'll take it from there.

~240GB, and preferably all SSD for the performance boost over HDD. So I could get one 240GB mSATA SSD (pricey!) and use a mSATA to micro SATA adapter to fit it in the main bay.

Or I could get a 120GB 2.5" 'regular' SATA(?) SSD and place that in the ultrabay and keep the 120GB 1.8" microSATA SSD in the main bay. Not ideal because the microSATA SSD is a few years old and likely a fair bit slower than any new SSD. I suppose I could move it to the ultrabay (using an adapter) and then get a 120GB mSATA + adapter for the main bay.

[ajkula66]

So given your statement that 2.5" SSD's have nothing to do with mSATA, then this SSD is 'regular' SATA? So laptops can have 'regular' SATA, mSATA or microSATA connections in their hard drive bay?

Most laptops from that era were equipped with 2.5" HDD bays. mSATA on ThinkPads (*20 and *30 series) is a slot that was originally meant to hold a WWAN card but will take the SSD as well.

Stay away from Kingston, these are junk drives. I wouldn't take a SandForce-based drive for free.

~240GB, and preferably all SSD for the performance boost over HDD. So I could get one 240GB mSATA SSD (pricey!) and use a mSATA to micro SATA adapter to fit it in the main bay.

Pricey? What is your intended price range? We're at less than $0.50/GB for these drives nowadays...

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... gnorebbr=1

What's the SSD that is in the machine right now, BTW?

[theterminator93]

Pricey? What is your intended price range? We're at less than $0.50/GB for these drives nowadays...

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... gnorebbr=1

I bought one of those, albeit the 500GB flavor, for my W520 recently. Worked out to under $.28 per GB. Fantastic drive for the money.

[serpico]

So given your statement that 2.5" SSD's have nothing to do with mSATA, then this SSD is 'regular' SATA? So laptops can have 'regular' SATA, mSATA or microSATA connections in their hard drive bay?

Most laptops from that era were equipped with 2.5" HDD bays. mSATA on ThinkPads (*20 and *30 series) is a slot that was originally meant to hold a WWAN card but will take the SSD as well.

Ah, I see. Yes, my T60 had a 2.5" HDD, which, now that I think about it, is much larger than the SSD that's in the T410s, but is the same size as the 2.5" SSD I have in my desktop.

~240GB, and preferably all SSD for the performance boost over HDD. So I could get one 240GB mSATA SSD (pricey!) and use a mSATA to micro SATA adapter to fit it in the main bay.

Pricey? What is your intended price range? We're at less than $0.50/GB for these drives nowadays...

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... gnorebbr=1

I was thinking $50.

What's the SSD that is in the machine right now, BTW?

1.8" Edge Boost Micro SSD, 120GB.

Why do you advise against getting a 2.5" SSD for the ultrabay adapter?

[ajkula66]

I was thinking $50.

That's not going to get you very far. At all. Not if we're talking about a brand new 240GB SSD with any type of decent specs and name brand.

1.8" Edge Boost Micro SSD, 120GB.

SandForce-based junk. I'd trash that one sooner than later.

Why do you advise against getting a 2.5" SSD for the ultrabay adapter?

You're effectively wasting a slot with no good reason. The system is likely to boot slower, and there's next to nothing that you could use the main bay for in that set of circumstances.

UltraBay can hold a HDD for storage purposes, or a battery. The main bay...right.

[Hans Gruber]

Remember most of the 1.8" SSD's that shipped with the T410s were SATA II drives. I would say any SATA III mSATA would be able to max out your SATA II bus. With that said the Crucial mSATA offerings posted are probably the best choice. I would suggest a 240GB SSD if you are on a budget.

I use the "S" shaped stryofoam and broke off a piece and it provides excellent shock absorption while holding the mSATA drive in place. I have the 3" tweezer type pliers for installing the mSATA card in a T410s.

[serpico]

Why do you advise against getting a 2.5" SSD for the ultrabay adapter?

You're effectively wasting a slot with no good reason. The system is likely to boot slower, and there's next to nothing that you could use the main bay for in that set of circumstances.

UltraBay can hold a HDD for storage purposes, or a battery. The main bay...right.

I was thinking keep the 1.8" microSATA in the main bay and add a 2.5" SSD to the ultrabay. So boot speed will be identical, and the only performance difference would be having a SSD in the ultrabay vs. the HDD that's in there currently. I can get a basic 120/128GB 2.5 SSD for ~$40.

Gets me to the 240GB target for a pretty small additional investment.

[serpico]

Remember most of the 1.8" SSD's that shipped with the T410s were SATA II drives. I would say any SATA III mSATA would be able to max out your SATA II bus. With that said the Crucial mSATA offerings posted are probably the best choice. I would suggest a 240GB SSD if you are on a budget.

I use the "S" shaped stryofoam and broke off a piece and it provides excellent shock absorption while holding the mSATA drive in place. I have the 3" tweezer type pliers for installing the mSATA card in a T410s.

Yes, my 1.8" SSD is SATA II.

Thanks for the tip on using styrofoam if I go with a mSATA SSD with adapter in the main bay.

[Hans Gruber]

Remember most of the 1.8" SSD's that shipped with the T410s were SATA II drives. I would say any SATA III mSATA would be able to max out your SATA II bus. With that said the Crucial mSATA offerings posted are probably the best choice. I would suggest a 240GB SSD if you are on a budget.

I use the "S" shaped stryofoam and broke off a piece and it provides excellent shock absorption while holding the mSATA drive in place. I have the 3" tweezer type pliers for installing the mSATA card in a T410s.

Yes, my 1.8" SSD is SATA II.

Thanks for the tip on using styrofoam if I go with a mSATA SSD with adapter in the main bay.

It's really the only way to go using the 1.8" main HDD bay as stated by others here already. If you want to go with alternative mSATA's. Check SSD Benchmark user website so you can see what the read/write speeds are. I have a Samsung mSata and some Toshiba mSATA's in several T410s. Your read speeds should max out @ 280MB and your writes around 240-250MB with the SATA II ports on the T410s.

[ajkula66]

I was thinking keep the 1.8" microSATA in the main bay and add a 2.5" SSD to the ultrabay. So boot speed will be identical, and the only performance difference would be having a SSD in the ultrabay vs. the HDD that's in there currently. I can get a basic 120/128GB 2.5 SSD for ~$40.

Gets me to the 240GB target for a pretty small additional investment.

I must admit that I'm quite stumped with the concept of having two smaller (and therefore definitely slower) SSDs, both of them being low-end - that's all that $40 will buy you - as opposed to having one *proper* mSATA SSD and keeping the HDD for storage purposes.

Someone, somewhere will give you $30 for that 1.8" SSD and you're on the $50 target mentioned before without having to compromise performance and overall reliability of the system...

Your machine, your $$$, your call.

[RealBlackStuff]

And instead of using dusty, crusty styrofoam and pliers, get a piece of plastic (like an old credit card), some decent electrician's tape and make it fit as pictured below.
It has the width of the 1.8" bay, and the total length is identical to the 1.8" SSD-length.

[jaspen-meyer]

I must admit that I'm quite stumped with the concept of having two smaller (and therefore definitely slower) SSDs, both of them being low-end - that's all that $40 will buy you - as opposed to having one *proper* mSATA SSD and keeping the HDD for storage purposes.

He has a price point of $50 and space requirement of 250gb. His solution covers both.
Your suggestion doesn't, it costs more than $50.

[ajkula66]

He has a price point of $50 and space requirement of 250gb. His solution covers both.
Your suggestion doesn't, it costs more than $50.

No it doesn't cost more than $50 in the end. That's why I wrote:

Someone, somewhere will give you $30 for that 1.8" SSD and you're on the $50 target mentioned before without having to compromise performance and overall reliability of the system...

[jaspen-meyer]

No it doesn't cost more than $50 in the end. That's why I wrote...

We must value our time differently. But the time I've removed the drive, photographed it, made an ebay listing, pulled my printer from the closet and connected it's cables, read the message saying the item was paid for, printed a label, boxed the item, driven to the post office (tally in a few bucks for gas), stood in line at the post office, driven home to hope the buyer wouldn't be happy with the drive...we're very well past $50.

[ajkula66]

We must value our time differently.

Definitely.

Listing an item on this forum or NBR doesn't cost a penny. And it can be done in 10 minutes per listing.

You'd have to remove the drive anyway in order to install the mSATA one as per the option that I'm suggesting.

Taking pictures takes ~ 2 mins or less. As does the packing of the SSD itself. Filling the form(s)...add another minute.

I drive by my post office (less than 1/2 mile away) every day on my way to and from work. Five minutes on line, likely less.

So I've spent an extra half an hour of my time in order to get the optimal performance for the system that I have on hand which will in turn save me *way* more time than that in the long run. I'll go with that.

To each their own.

[jaspen-meyer]

...get the optimal performance for the system that I have on hand which will in turn save me *way* more time than that in the long run. I'll go with that.

save *way* more time? Nice point. But, where will the savings come from?

From performance gains? I'd figure those are less than 5 seconds per day. Or, do you mean because the 1.8" Edge Boost Micro SSD is apt to fail?

[ajkula66]

save *way* more time? Nice point. But, where will the savings come from?

Not having to shuffle the stuff around two smaller drives...

From performance gains? I'd figure those are less than 5 seconds per day.

No, performance gains were not what was referring to. Not in sense that you're implying anyway.

Or, do you mean because the 1.8" Edge Boost Micro SSD is apt to fail?

That in itself opens up a whole another Pandora's box...let's not even go there. Pretty please.

[Tasurinchi]

Thanks for the tip on using styrofoam if I go with a mSATA SSD with adapter in the main bay.

There are adapters that fit directly into the 1.8 bay, they're more expensive though...

Example 1

I'm using the one above in my X300, X301's and T410s ThinkPads and they work with no issues. I doesn't feel so cheap as the smaller, simpler ones (I have few of those too)

There's also this model: Example 2

(I have no affiliation with the above sellers)

[serpico]

I appreciate the tips and back and forth discussion. I ended up selling the T410s and buying a W510 since I didn't need the easier portability of the T410s and by getting into the W510, I don't need to spend extra on a smaller form factor SSD or an adapter (the W510 drive bay accepts 2.5" form factor drives, so no mSATA + adapter or microSATA). Not to mention quad-core and greater screen real estate. And a better workout when I do need to move the laptop around!