T43 slow browsing with xp

[julllleee]

Hello, I recently needed a laptop so I picked up my dads old T43 work computer and installed xp on it. However I have found browsing is kind of laggy. When I try to watch youtube i have to change the link so I only get the flash window and change quality to 360p to be able to watch without lag and sound shuttering.

I remember this computer much faster from times before when I have used it. Might it be that I used a driver installer drivers and it maybe installed wrong drivers or is it time to upgrade some parts of it? Looked some on the forum and found that u can install a ssd/cpu/ram to make it better. Would it make it able to run windows 7 and run browsing/youtubing without lag?

P.S It still have the old HDD from 2004 so might be some hardware problems with it?

Thanks in advance!

[dr_st]

Welcome to the forum.

The internet changed a lot in the last 12 years. Nothing you will do to this computer will make it as fast as you remember it. Youtube will remain laggy, no matter what you do. Just get used to it.

That is not to say that you cannot improve it at all. Replacing the aging hard drive with a SSD (or even a newer modern hard drive) can do a lot. The problem that the T43 uses PATA drives, which are obsolete. There is a possibility of a SATA mod, but I am not sure anyone does these nowadays. Your best bet would be a SATA SSD with a PATA-SATA converter.

CPU / RAM may or may not help - depending what's currently there. If the CPU is 1.86GHz+ - you are not going to gain much by maximizing it (for a 2.26GHz, for example). Getting 2GB RAM (the maximum these machines would take) can give a boost in certain scenarios (heavy multi-tasking), but not in the core CPU-bound things like webpage rendering and video playing.

Honestly at the price you are going to pay for all these upgrades, you may as well just buy a new more modern laptop.

[julllleee]

Thanks

I think it got a 1.86 CPU as it was a work computer and as it got 2gb ram installed from the start. Don't really know how to check on xp? Would it make a difference to install linux?

I have found out that if u change /watch?v= to /v/ on a youtube video makes it run much better, it can even play 360p fullscreen with almost no lag. Maybe if u upgraded to 2.2 ghz and installed a ssd would it be possible to watch 480p?

I just use this computer for surfring/youtube when i watch tv or cooking so don't think it's worth to spend much for a new computer.

[Neil]

...installed xp on it.

Did you also install drivers? Especially graphics drivers can make or break video play back. XP will install a basic default driver, but it may not be the best solution.

I still use a similar T43 daily that has XP and Xubuntu installed. Haven't booted XP in several months though. It does a decent job with YouTube, at least for me. Maybe I don't have very high expectation from it though.

[julllleee]

how do I check if i got the correct one? I used "Driver Booster 4" to install all drivers. I was kind of in a hurry to get it done before I left. However I think it installed one as I remember the screen resolution got better after the installation.

Is there any better browser then chrome? I have tried opera/chrome/firefox and found chome to be the fastest

[Dekks]

Youtube videos will run better if you download them first and play thru something like VLC avoiding flash. It's an inconvenience i know but allows higher res replay.

[shawross]

Driver Booster has probably installed a lot of Spyware or Malware on your computer which won't help.

Does it have an ATI or Intel GPU? After you login click on MTM and insert model number.

To use a T43 today the system needs to be clean and lean. An SSD won't really help with youtube but a light weight browser and antivirus will. It should be able to do 480p on youtube.

Win 7 is better than XP but you need 2GB of ram. Remove all bloatware and install Free CCleaner and Malwarebytes and run them weekly.

goodluck

[TPFanatic]

You won't get better than 480p videos on youtube with either HTML5 or Flash player with T43. It's too old. Palemoon for XP is a light browser but is a bit sucky, some websites don't work right... Palemoon starts faster but I'll be sticking with Firefox on my T42p and R50p.

Using Firefox: go to about:config and toggle "browser.tabs.remote.autostart.2" to false. When true, which it is now by default, it enables multiprocessing so you see two or more "firefox.exe" in running processes. Supposedly this makes the browser faster? In Core 2 Duo and older I find it just slows things down. Then get the extensions Ublock Origin and NoScript.

[shawross]

Is there any better browser then chrome? I have tried opera/chrome/firefox and found chome to be the fastest

Chrome isn't supported on XP anymore which possibly won't help with Malware and viruses. I think Comodo Dragon is Chrome like.

Google light browsers and have a play and see what works.

[dr_st]

Youtube videos will run better if you download them first and play thru something like VLC avoiding flash. It's an inconvenience i know but allows higher res replay.

It's better to use software like Minitube, which will allow you to stream videos using more efficient containers, without needing to download them. Minitube allows most 720p content to be played on a Pentium M CPU without stuttering, something which is impossible with Youtube these days, whether you use Flash or HTML5 (which is not any better than Flash in terms of processing requirements).

Remove all bloatware and install Free CCleaner and Malwarebytes and run them weekly.

I second that - these are among my most favorite lightweight cleanup utilities. I often forget to run them weekly (and honestly, probably don't need to), but I like them. Don't know how much they actually contribute, but they do find things to get rid of every once in a while.

Is there any better browser then chrome? I have tried opera/chrome/firefox and found chome to be the fastest

It depends on how you define "better". Every time I tried to compare them head-to-head I found the speed difference in actual usage (not synthetic benchmarks) to be marginal. So it's about which interface you prefer, and which extensions you like. Some extensions are available for all browsers, some only for specific ones.

Palemoon for XP is a light browser but is a bit sucky, some websites don't work right... Palemoon starts faster but I'll be sticking with Firefox on my T42p and R50p.

Pale Moon team is actively working to fix things that are not working right, and Palemoon 27.x is a good step in the right direction, but unfortunately it will not make it to XP, since the last version supporting XP is 26.5. However, a lot (not all) of the websites that don't work right are really just because the websites sniffs the user agent and decides that the browser is not supported, if it's not Firefox/Chrome/IE of a certain version. Palemoon includes fake useragent offers for many websites to compensate for that, but if it's an obscure and not popular site, it will probably not include it, but you can still try to create such a fake user agent offer for it, to see if it fixes whatever issues you're having.

[Dekks]

It's better to use software like Minitube, which will allow you to stream videos using more efficient containers, without needing to download them. Minitube allows most 720p content to be played on a Pentium M CPU without stuttering, something which is impossible with Youtube these days, whether you use Flash or HTML5 (which is not any better than Flash in terms of processing requirements).

Has minitube done away with the google dev key mullarky? [Oh well Arch still puts you thru the hoops and authors deb file is 64bit only]

[WarMachine]

Hello julllleee,

Welcome to the forum !

You wrote :

Would it make a difference to install linux?

Perhaps it could, or not. Depends on what you're doing with the computer. I read you surf on the internet, and using Youtube. You'll not be able to watch videos in 720p, of course, but the experience can be better than the one under XP. And If you install Linux, you'll have a more secure system, and it's very important if you go on the net. You must know that the graphics card is important with this machine for websurfing. As you can see in my signature, I have a T41p and a T42. The T41p runs Linux Debian 8.7 with a lightweight desktop, LXDE, the surf is OK with its FireGL T2, but under the same conditions, with the T42 and its Radeon Mobility 7500, it's choppy. On thing is sure, you will have more memory available for your applications. With my system under Linux, without applications, Linux uses approximatively 75/80 MB. XP, if not optimized, uses a lot more (optimized, at least on my machines, it's circa 100 MB, but XP doesn't manage efficiently the memory, and doesn't release free memory for the applications, Linux is far more better on this point).

If you want to give it a try, it's important that you choose a lightweight desktop, you can't reasonably install an Ubuntu from scratch, as it can be as heavy as XP, if not more (and the main desktops on Linux - Gnome and KDE for example - run better on multicore CPUs). I made the choice of LXDE, which interface is close to XP. For the web browser, you have a lot of them under linux. I love Firefox, but there are some which are lighter, for example Qupzilla, or Dillo (but Dillo doesn't support Javascript, and you'll not be able to use Youtube, but for forum surfing, it can be very nice).

All in all, I'm satisfied with my Linux installation on the T41p. I made the system from scratch. I installed Linux Debian 8.6 (today, it's updated to 8.7, and you can download directly 8.7), and when you install the system, you can choose a desktop. I chose no desktop, and naturally, when the laptop reboots, you log into a console (no graphics, no desktop). Once logged, I installed those elements :

- Web browser, language add-on : firefox-esr, firefox-esr-l10n-fr (you can bypass the language add-on if you install in english, if you want swedish, the package is Firefox-esr-l10n-sv-se) ;
- Some other addons : xul-ext-adblock-plus, xul-ext-noscript, xul-ext-refcontrol, xul-ext-https-everywhere (by suppressing the ads, surf is quicker, idem with noscript, but you will have to deactivate it to see what you want on number of sites) ;
- A text editor : pluma ;
- A photo editor : pinta (a clone of paint .net on Windows) ;
- An IM software : pidgin ;
- Some tools to install the Skype protocol on pidgin : gcc, g++, git, cmake (*) ;
- A *.deb packages installer : gdebi ;
- A zip software : xarchiver ;
- A graphics package manager : synaptic ;
- A sound editor : audacity ;
- A burning software : brasero ;
- A multimedia player : gnome-mplayer ;
- Packages to make the sound work : pulseaudio, alsa-tools, alsa-utils, alsa-base ;
- The graphics server : xorg ;
- A light login manager : slim ;
- WiFi Manager : wicd ;
- The desktop : lxde ;
- A tool to personalize LXDE : lxappearance ;
- A cleaning software : bleachbit.

(*) : To install Skype protocol, you can read github : https://github.com/EionRobb/skype4pidgi ... r/skypeweb

sudo apt-get install libpurple-dev libjson-glib-dev cmake gcc
git clone git://github.com/EionRobb/skype4pidgin.git
cd skype4pidgin/skypeweb
mkdir build
cd build
cmake ..
cpack

To install do:

sudo dpkg -i skypeweb-1.2.2-Linux.deb

If it's the first time you're installing Linux, it can be a little complicated (but believe me, it's way nicer that an XP installation, because of the updates of the Microsoft OS, a real pain...). If you stay on XP, unfortunately, not much to do, apart from maximizing your hardware, and optimizing your OS. It can be a good start to save all your data, and reinstall XP if you still have the CD and the key (**). Make sure you install directly the OS with the SP3. There is also an unofficial SP4, I installed it with no problems :
https://ryanvm.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=10321

(**) If you don't have the key, you can retrieve it with Produkey : http://www.nirsoft.net/utils/product_cd_key_viewer.html

Once you have your system up-to-date, you can optimize it, stop services, uninstall some components (with nLite for example), you must also clean regularly your windows - I use CCleaner and Glary Utilities. Defragmentation of your hard drive can help a bit too. To go further, you can also use Autoruns, but be careful, it goes really deep in the system and can destroy it if not used carefully. Those manipulations will have more consequences than update your laptop if you already have 2 GB of RAM. The SSD would give you reactivity (you click, something happens, no lag anymore), but once your application is running, the CPU will be the bottleneck, and you won't gain much to change it for a better one (and nowadays, the best Pentium-M can be difficult to find, and expensive). More XP tweaking possible with TuneUp Utilities (I use the 2007 version for my XP machines, as the recent ones are heavier). For the security, you can use SafeXP, SpywareBlaster, RegProt, XP Antispy and MSE (not the best antivirus out there, but better than nothing, and relatively light).

A last word for Driver Booster, and generally the IObit softwares. I tried them, and some options were cool, but it's really heavy, it leaves many things in the system, and I don't really know where it finds the drivers it brings you, sometimes, it's weird. Today, I prefer not to use it as I don't really know what to think of it... You can stay with Glary and CCleaner, and for CCleaner, if you want it to be more efficient, you can install CCEnhancer alongside, it will add a lot of cleaning options to CCleaner and it's really nice (make sure that you select the "Trim the definitions to improve performances" option in CCEnhancer to speed it up, or it will make CCleaner awfully slow when you're in the main tab).

W.

[julllleee]

Thanks for all the replys!

Does it have an ATI or Intel GPU? After you login click on MTM and insert model number.

I could not find MTM? However it got a "Graphics By ATi" sticker on it.

So it seems I either have the choice of installing W7 or linux for best performance.
What do you recommend I try to boost my youtube experiance with, W7 optimized with minitube or linux optimized with minitube. I don't really care about the interface in W7 or linux as I only want youtube to work best. Is there any easy way to backup W7 & Linux to a hdd so I could possibly try both?

I have a little question on Malwarebytes aswell. Is it a antivirus? I had the impression that it was only a tool to remove rootkit/keyloggers and such heavier stuff than normal viruses

I just want to thank everyone for helping me, I could not imagen getting this much help


Edit: Wow I tested MiniTube and I can watch 720p without any lag! So maybe now my view have shifted a little. I think I want the best OS for performance, as I can use MiniTube on both linux&Windows and it makes it run great.

[shawross]

Malwarebytes is only for malware you will still need an antivirus and I recommend Avast free edition of course.

Windows 7 is nice on a T43 but as I have said you need 2GB of ram

The latest ATI display driver for Windows 7 can be found on this link

http://www.amd-drivers.com/download-Rad ... 32bit.html

This will needed to be modded with the following modder click on the ATI link

http://www.hardwareheaven.com/tools/

1. unpack the Vista driver to C: drive but don't setup

2. Install the Modder and then mod the unpacked directory

3. Then setup the modded directory and run in compatibility mode for Vista

It is a while since I have done this but it is pretty straight forward.

Download these files while the links still work

Xenomorph was a legend with the T43 and there is info on this link but I am not sure all his links work now

http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.php?t=75140


Goodluck

[WarMachine]

Hello,

Glad to help you !

I don't think Windows 7 is a good choice for a T4x. Even if it can run on it, the results are not the best. First of all, the graphics. It may not be important that you will use Windows 7 in basic mode, but in terms of performances, it's not nice because if there is no official driver for your graphics card, everything graphics is managed by the CPU, and as the CPU is limited for the other things, ask it to manage also what's on your desktop isn't a good idea. It requires a machine with a little better components to run fine. It's sad, because 7 is better on many points, it's nowadays partially supported by Microsoft (XP isn't anymore), it can manage the RAM better, it's more secure, you have more choice for your applications... If I had to choose, I'd go with a Linux distribution. As you can make a system from A to Z, install only what you want, you can really master your machine. I have tried to two systems, and I prefer Linux (for this particular machine, because if Windows can run on a PC, I install Windows).

If you want to try 7 (because you can naturally try it), you can find help in another topic on this forum : http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.php?t=75140
There are also modded drivers for the graphics card. I haven't tested them as I'm not fond of this kind of modifications, but you can give it a try too.

MalwareBytes Antimalware is not an antivirus. An antivirus fights the viruses whereas Antimalware fights... the malwares ! It's another kind of malicious programs, it can be worms, trojans, rootkits, keyloggers and so on... It can be nice to have it installed on your machine, alongside the antivirus.

W.

EDIT : If you should test Windows 7, you'll have to do the updates, and they are very difficult to catch. I've made a post on my blog about this. It's in french, but I think it can be used and understood correctly with Google Translate : https://wilou62.blogspot.fr/2016/08/si- ... aller.html

[kfzhu1229]

Hello,
well I have a complete different opinion for T43p. I think it works better in Windows 7 or 2000, but not XP (I REALLY had a bad time with XP in T43 that I see a Pentium III Coppermine machine booting way faster in the same Windows XP than this T43! Back then, I don't know much about computers so I was afraid to upgrade... until I went to Windows 7, forever and then now I am at Windows 10 and Windows 7). Did you try h264ify and adblock? I use Edge (in Windows 10) and adblock in Windows 10 and 720p plays fine for me with 2.26ghz Pentium M 780 and even better with FireGL V3200 instead of X300!

[WarMachine]

Hello,

I was wondering if the T could work on Windows 10. I don't like this OS, but it's nice if it can run on it. I suppose if you can find all the drivers, it runs even better than 7, am I right ?
I would have loved to have a maxed out T4x and run Windows 2000 on it. It was my prefered Microsoft OS and I was very dissapointed when then stopped supporting it...

W.

[brchan]

I recommend using linux on anything older than a T60. XP has become bloated, unsupported, and unsecured, while W7 is only 'tolerable' on a T43.

There is plenty of support, customization, and variations of linux for really anyone.

[kfzhu1229]

Hello,

I was wondering if the T could work on Windows 10. I don't like this OS, but it's nice if it can run on it. I suppose if you can find all the drivers, it runs even better than 7, am I right ?
I would have loved to have a maxed out T4x and run Windows 2000 on it. It was my prefered Microsoft OS and I was very dissapointed when then stopped supporting it...

W.

ONLY R52/T43/p out of the entire T4x/R5x lineup can (and ONLY the ATI GPU variants) because the Sonoma Pentium M processors are the first ones to support NX and the only ones in the entire Pentium M lineup that completely supports PAE. I am typing on a T43p in Windows 10 and I personally feel it is more than tolerable after debloating Windows 10 and after using a completed bloated copy of Windows XP that takes five minutes to open a browser!
Tbh, the real killer for older computers is NOT the OS. Windows 10 on R52/T43/p, if debloated properly and with a good processor (750 and up) and RAM (2GB), it is not slow at all! It may not be the snappy experience like a skylake i7 + SSD, but I have no complants so far.
However the real killer are the apps + websites. Now with Facebook chat emulating messenger, it couldn't become even worse since the messenger app in Windows 10 store needs a DirectX 10 capable GPU which I guess the online emulating chat is the same thing, it means that your CPU usage peaks up and experience becomes laggy!

[shawross]

Yes I agree with the comments about XP. I put it back on a A30 that has 512 MB of ram which originally came with XP and it is painful.

[julllleee]

Okay thanks I think I will try out Linux first and see how it is! I'll report back in a few days when i got everything downloaded and working. Thanks again for all the help! This forum is amazing!!

[jaspen-meyer]

Once you have youtube playing from an external player adjust the video player's settings to further improve playback.

For example, I use 'smtube' (smtube.org) together with 'mplayer'.
Install smtube and mplayer.
Read the mplayer manual by opening a terminal then
typing 'man mplayer'. Look around for settings which are useful for slow machines (or you can search the web for such settings)
Open a terminal
Open smtube.
Click view > settings > Players > MPlayer > edit
Adjust 'parameters' for a slow cpu -- basic example parameters:

Code: Select all

-framedrop -cache 1300 %u -title %t

For a T43 with a mechanical disk you also want to lower the number, and frequency, of writing to the hard disk. Search for 'fstab tmpfs arch' and add a few lines to your /etc/fstab file:
tmpfs /home/YOURUSER/.cache tmpfs noatime,nodev,nosuid,size=256M 0 0
tmpfs /var/log tmpfs nodev,nosuid,size=32M 0 0

could also make a tmpfs for /home/YOU/.thumbnails and /tmp (tip: if tmp is too small you will get errors when doing large updates)

[Compgeke]

Here's the thing: Browsing will never work fast on this no matter what OS or program you use. It's simply too old. You lack stuff like GPU rendering for videos and ram caps at a fairly low amount, especially for modern web pages. It's not hard for something like a gmail tab to be eating 400-500 megs of ram in addition to the overhead of the browser process itself. 5 tabs open and half your ram is gone.

I'd keep the T43 around for [censored] and giggles but if you actually want something that's going to work on the modern web, grab something like a used T400 on ebay. I'm not sure what the pricing is over on your side of the world but here in the US you can grab one sans HDD and power cord for under $75 USD. You already have a power cord and hard drives are fairly cheap. The Core 2 Duo and even Intel GPU will be a huge benefit, especially thanks to the Intel GPU having some video rendering support but even then the CPU can do Youtube HTML5 no problem.

[kfzhu1229]

5 tabs open and half your ram is gone.

Why do you need more than 5 tabs open?
Also yea I agree with you T43 struggles today, but yes it is totally workable. At least its stability is still a lot better than my t530 which may give me one blue screen every 2 months or so... The GPU's DX9 support is enough for Windows itself to run, but almost every app from the Windows store will not because they need DX10

[dr_st]

Different people have different definitions of what 'totally workable' is. Even a dual-core T60 is already painful for me to use daily. You may think it's fine, but after comparing to some faster machines, the sluggishness is definitely noticeable...

Your BSOD on the T530 is 99% software/driver issue, as they always are. Not to mention that bad as it is, the productivity lost by a BSOD every two months is probably much less than the productivity lost by using a system that is more than 50% slower on a regular basis.

[kfzhu1229]

Yea I have noticed that my requirements are rather low but more focused on the reliability side. My requirements are basically Windows' minimum requirements. That means my 600 is under W2k and WXP (with 416mb of RAM), T22 is under W2k (W7 is actually below my standards on that thing), T23, A30p, T42 in Windows 7 which all work just fine in my opinion and pretty surprising for a Pentium III Tualatin machine to be efficient enough to run Windows 7 just as good as T22 in XP and runs even cooler at that (the base of my A30p is room temperature in idle while the base of my T22 is warm enough to be uncomfortable on your lap and can almost fry an egg under full load!), T43/p and later are all running Windows 10.

[shawross]

I agree with all these comments and people have different definitions and requirements. Anything single core will need a lot of patience on the internet today.
I actually enjoy setting up a machine, normally a dual core to be relatively agile today to my requirements. Operating systems do have a lot of bloat built in today especially when connecting to the internet. Allowing sites to run all Flash will eat resources.

I just installed Tiny XP beast Edition on my A30 and while I never intend it to connect to the internet it flies. Also obviously there are lite Linux versions like Puppy but for retro gaming I went with XP.

[Callahan]

I do not have a T43 but I do have a T41 and two T42s. Just wanted to mention about 'Youtube Downloader HD' for watching YouTube videos. I didn't see any mention of it but I have used it for years. I use the 'portable' version ... of course, I usually like to save a lot of videos ... for what I don't know. I keep thinking that I may want to see the video again one day so I download it to burn to a CD. I have never looked at them yet ... who's got the time ??? ... but I have also used it to download a lot of ThinkPad T41 and T42 help videos ... those have been watched and very useful when my T41 fan quit working last November.

Anyway, it's a small, fast program that works very well with WinXP ... in case there are some videos that you want to save for later.

Youtube Downloader HD

February 3, 2017 Version 2.9.9.30 is available!

http://www.youtubedownloaderhd.com/

Youtube Downloader HD is the fastest free video downloader. Download and convert videos into avi video format or into mp4 (compatible with iPad, iPhone).

You can download High Quality videos, High Definition and Full HD videos from YouTube. Youtube Downloader HD is a Freeware!

Download Youtube Downloader HD

Youtube Youtube Downloader HD - Portable Version
Version 2.9.9.30 Free. 10 MB. Without installer. Standalone exe file in archive.
For Windows 2000/XP/2003/Vista/7/8/10

http://www.youtubedownloaderhd.com/download.html

... just want to add, lately they don't seem to update a lot ... it just works, the update that just came out in Feb ... it was maybe 6 months since the last update ... very stable and YouTube didn't seem to be changing anything. That more than anything else will bring on a newer version. A few years back, there were updates every week or two ... at least it seemed that way but YouTube was going crazy with changes for awhile. Set up a 'Video' folder and load it up, if you have a mind to.
.....

[Ken Edmonds]

I'd disagree that Windows 7 is usable or even tolerable on a T43. I think the CPU is only a 1.7 but even with a full 2GB of memory it was still painfully slow.
Since then I've put XP back on and lent it to a friend. When I get it back I'm going to install Linux which I did briefly previously and it seemed to perform pretty well.

[jaspen-meyer]

It's not hard for something like a gmail tab to be eating 400-500 megs of ram in addition to the overhead of the browser process itself.

In 1994 I was sending email from a 60mHz Pentium I. Email hasn't changed.
I also watched movies on that machine.

claws-mail can (probably) be configured with gmail, it runs on <20 mb of ram.

If the goal is simply to watch youtube videos and browser, be mindful to not waste resources (cpu cycles and memory). For streaming video, and multitasking, on my 1.13ghz Pentium III, I use fvwm:

~$ apt-cache search fvwm
fvwm - F(?) Virtual Window Manager