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In defense of the Thinkpad 25

T25-Retro specific matters only
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gofishus
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In defense of the Thinkpad 25

#1 Post by gofishus » Thu Jan 04, 2018 1:49 pm

The Thinkpad 25 seems to get a lot of hate online, some of it is deserved some of it is not. I made my points defending it here however, let me know if you agree/disagree with my stance here.. im not saying its a perfect laptop, its definitely not retro, but I also don't think its overpriced 'crap' like a lot of people seem to think

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vs9ga62e394
2017 TP25 | 2016 X1 Yoga | 2014 X240 | 2007 X61

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Re: In defense of the Thinkpad 25

#2 Post by dr_st » Thu Jan 04, 2018 2:41 pm

I listened to your entire video, although not with 100% attention to all of it, since it does get too long and repetitive, and some things are obvious.

So I will respond with a long rant of my own (but I don't do videos, so you'll have to read). :lol:

Naturally, I mostly agree with you. I don't understand, though, why it was so important to you to offer such lengthy rebuttals to Louis's stupid rant; it gives it (the rant, not Louis) way more attention than it deserves. Louis is very knowledgeable, and passionate about laptops, but in this case he fell into the trap of unreasonable expectations (a 'retro' laptop that will meet all his personal preferences). Once it was clear that there is no 'model line', but only a single model, it was obvious that it will not meet everyone's expectations, because they are either mutually exclusive, or too far-fetched in today's market situation. And quite a few of the die-hard fans here fell into the same trap.

The Thinkpad 25 does not need a defense. It's a great laptop. Everybody who got it likes it. All the reasonable classic Thinkpads fans like it, because it is the closest thing to a classic Thinkpad in today's market (yes, for the umpteenth time, the keyboard makes all the difference).

If it doesn't meet your expectations, oh well, go get something else. If a normal keyboard is not sufficiently important to you to overlook the fact that it the laptop does not have the "perfect" specs, then I guess it's really not as important to you as you thought, and you should happily choose from Lenovo's plethora of Thinkpads in the standard X, T and P series.

All the complaints about hardware are mostly junk complaints. Yes, it could theoretically be shipped with a newer-gen CPU/GPU. In a year it would still be outdated. It's meaningless when you think long-term (as I would expect from people who keep 5 and 10 year old systems!).

I guess I can understand that some people were expecting a true "retro" (like legacy ports) and got disappointed. Well, I'd rather these people be disappointed than people who actually want a modern laptop with a good keyboard.

And just a last comment that I cannot pass by:

The T61, the "grandfather" of laptops, according to Louis (a claim that apparently many subscribe to), is an ugly poorly designed piece of sh!t. I seriously can't understand people who are willing to have that on their desk. 4:3 diehards may remember it fondly because it was the last mainstream 4:3 (to be honest, the 4:3 was a little less ugly, because it shared more with the T60).

Really the only value of a T61 is that its innards are compatible with the T60 14" and 15" shells, and the hardware jump between the generations (which Lenovo had nothing to do with) happened to be significant enough to make 'frankenpadding' worthwhile, as you can get quite a bit farther ahead in performance than a stock T60.

This rant was typed on my 15" IPS T60, BTW. ;)

And to end on a positive note: I think your summary pretty much nailed it: the laptop world is better for having the Thinkpad 25 than it would have been without it.
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Re: In defense of the Thinkpad 25

#3 Post by gofishus » Thu Jan 04, 2018 3:09 pm

Thanks for listening to my rant I know some parts were really repetitive but I just wanted to respond to all the naysayers out there because i felt the hate against this laptop was undeserved. Impossible to satisfy everyone. Thanks for your response.
2017 TP25 | 2016 X1 Yoga | 2014 X240 | 2007 X61

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Re: In defense of the Thinkpad 25

#4 Post by theterminator93 » Thu Jan 04, 2018 3:51 pm

In the end, haters will hate, and they pool together and feed off one another to hate even more. There seem to be far too few people on this earth truly willing to compromise.

My T25 isn't the only laptop I use, and there are reasons why. I use my W520 all the time, and my FrankenPad T60/T61 is my weapon of choice at work (although I will occasionally leave it home and take the T25 instead). In the end I chose to buy because my expectations were fairly low from the get-go - my only real desire was to get the classic keyboard back, which is what I got. I opted not to pass up the opportunity to own the, in what it will probably end up being, last ever ThinkPad with the classic keyboard. What I got actually pleasantly surprised me.

On a side note, the larger heat sink does a marvelous job at keeping the CPU cool so it can run at (or near) max turbo. I've been experimenting with it by mining cryptocurrency for a few days and it's been running at full speed nearly the whole time (it drops to 3.4 GHz occasionally). From a CPU performance standpoint with this as the benchmark, its dual core 15W TDP performs as fast as my W520's 45W TDP quad core. That's impressive.
Last edited by theterminator93 on Thu Jan 04, 2018 3:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: In defense of the Thinkpad 25

#5 Post by ajkula66 » Thu Jan 04, 2018 3:53 pm

dr_st wrote:
Thu Jan 04, 2018 2:41 pm
The Thinkpad 25 does not need a defense.
Agreed. It's a laptop, not an individual accused of high treason.

Which is one of the reasons why - with all due respect to OP - I couldn't bring myself to watching the whole YT video that he made.

Like most other things in life, ThinkPad 25 either works for one's intended purposes or it doesn't. It's really that simple.
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Re: In defense of the Thinkpad 25

#6 Post by theterminator93 » Wed Jan 17, 2018 2:09 pm

Not sure this is the best place to post this, but another justification for me in buying the T25 is the answer to this question which I posted on a 2018 product lineup webinar this afternoon I was invited to, being a business partner:

Question - Brandon
Will the keyboard from the 25th anniversary model make its way to any of the mainstream models in the future?
  Answer - Adrienne Mueller
  We do not have any plans to do that at this time. Unfortunately just a limited special edition offering.
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Re: In defense of the Thinkpad 25

#7 Post by dr_st » Wed Jan 17, 2018 3:03 pm

theterminator93 wrote:
Wed Jan 17, 2018 2:09 pm
Question - Brandon
Will the keyboard from the 25th anniversary model make its way to any of the mainstream models in the future?
  Answer - Adrienne Mueller
  We do not have any plans to do that at this time. Unfortunately just a limited special edition offering.
It's pretty obvious this is their current position. It's our job to change it, approaching anyone inside Lenovo that can affect the position.
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Re: In defense of the Thinkpad 25

#8 Post by shawross » Wed Jan 17, 2018 7:08 pm

dr_st wrote:It's pretty obvious this is their current position. It's our job to change it, approaching anyone inside Lenovo that can affect the position.
Goodluck with that one although Lenovo people do follow these forums.

You would probably have more impact voicing this on Reddit where the next generation of Thinkpad buyers reside and Lenovo know it

Although you come up against the Lenovo insiders and fan boys.
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Re: In defense of the Thinkpad 25

#9 Post by ajkula66 » Wed Jan 17, 2018 7:46 pm

dr_st wrote:
Wed Jan 17, 2018 3:03 pm
It's our job to change it, approaching anyone inside Lenovo that can affect the position.
I admire your optimism, old friend, but do not share it one bit.

We've been trying to get Lenovo to listen for more than a decade now, with nothing to show for it.

ThinkPad 25 - as many of us have suspected - has proven to be a "one off" money grab, which has brought Lenovo a *ton* of media exposure that they wouldn't have gotten otherwise.

I'll leave it to the younger generation to possibly keep on fighting the fight to get "the job" done and wish everyone luck in the process, but I'm out. For good.
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Re: In defense of the Thinkpad 25

#10 Post by theterminator93 » Wed Jan 17, 2018 10:06 pm

You know... one of the other "new features" they were touting with the T480 et al was "a series of beeps at startup that can be decoded to tell you exactly why your computer isn't booting if there are problems". :lol: :lol:
Daily: T25 | W520 i7-2860QM·Quadro 2000m·IPS FHD | T420 i7-2640M·NVS 4200m·IPS FHD | X220 i7-2640M | T601F T9900·NVS 140M·LED UXGA
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Re: In defense of the Thinkpad 25

#11 Post by w0qj » Sat Jan 20, 2018 3:01 am

To be fair, Lenovo/ThinkPad did make a serious effort for Thinkpad 25.

At least the traditional 7-row keyboard had key backlight, so they did some redesigning...

==>For the record, if ThinkPad someday launches 16:10 LCD and 7-row traditional keyboard, we would buy multiple units of ThinkPads, and to replenish our entire (small) 100% ThinkPad fleet ;)
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Re: In defense of the Thinkpad 25

#12 Post by shawross » Sun Jan 21, 2018 7:19 am

w0qj wrote:To be fair, Lenovo/ThinkPad did make a serious effort for Thinkpad 25.

I am glad some people think so


w0qj wrote:At least the traditional 7-row keyboard had key backlight, so they did some redesigning...

They also made it a touch screen which just screams "Retro" . We are truly blessed by Lenovo. :bow:
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Re: In defense of the Thinkpad 25

#13 Post by gofishus » Tue Jan 23, 2018 3:04 pm

shawross wrote:
Sun Jan 21, 2018 7:19 am
w0qj wrote:To be fair, Lenovo/ThinkPad did make a serious effort for Thinkpad 25.

I am glad some people think so


w0qj wrote:At least the traditional 7-row keyboard had key backlight, so they did some redesigning...

They also made it a touch screen which just screams "Retro" . We are truly blessed by Lenovo. :bow:
There's nothing retro about this laptop. Its a strictly better T470 with a dedicated GPU and a much better keyboard, with a small upcharge for it. Doesn't deserve so much hate when you look at it from this standpoint. If people didnt hate the T470 there's no reason to hate the TP25 from a specs perspective
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Re: In defense of the Thinkpad 25

#14 Post by Thinkpad4by3 » Tue Jan 23, 2018 3:33 pm

theterminator93 wrote:
Wed Jan 17, 2018 10:06 pm
You know... one of the other "new features" they were touting with the T480 et al was "a series of beeps at startup that can be decoded to tell you exactly why your computer isn't booting if there are problems". :lol: :lol:
My IBM PC 5150 has that. 36 years later, beep codes shouldn't be a feature.

Also, it has a touchscreen because the original Thinkpads had touchscreens? 700T, 710T, 750P?
"Its not what screen ratio you have, it is what you do with it." -me

Now stop complaining and get back to work with your "wrongly configured" box of pixels.

-Thinkpad4by3, or 3:2, or 16:10, or 16:9, or 21:9.....or whatever.

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Re: In defense of the Thinkpad 25

#15 Post by ajkula66 » Tue Jan 23, 2018 5:55 pm

gofishus wrote:
Tue Jan 23, 2018 3:04 pm

There's nothing retro about this laptop. Its a strictly better T470 with a dedicated GPU and a much better keyboard, with a small upcharge for it. Doesn't deserve so much hate when you look at it from this standpoint. If people didnt hate the T470 there's no reason to hate the TP25 from a specs perspective
People don't hate TP25 from a "specs" perspective. I doubt that anyone in their right mind hates a laptop, let alone from such a standpoint.

What people *do* hate is the way Lenovo went about a lot of things over the past decade - all discussed ad nauseam on this forum and elsewhere - and crowned it with the slap in the face that many perceive TP25 to be after the entire "Retro" charade.
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Re: In defense of the Thinkpad 25

#16 Post by jcvjcvjcvjcv » Mon Feb 26, 2018 10:33 am

ajkula66 wrote:
Wed Jan 17, 2018 7:46 pm
[...]
I'll leave it to the younger generation to possibly keep on fighting the fight to get "the job" done and wish everyone luck in the process, but I'm out. For good.
Since they never enjoyed the older, -better layout-, keyboards, the better advice for them might be to never try it... because most likely they will never get it in a new laptop. Why get sour over something you will never get anyway? Yes, it is defeatists, but one can only care about so much in life...

I'm already busy hating at poor HVAC at pretty much every workplace, school, government building, etc. Enormous amounts of energy are wasted by freezing offices in summer and heating to 25C (w/o adding moisture) in winter, causing massive discomfort, dry noses, broken lips, drowsy brains, etc. New buildings with a massive amount of glass facing south... without sun-reflecting foil or overhang...
Then we have the trend of software getting worse and worse; all the big companies want to have all your data in their cloud... NO.
For my photography hobby; as someone wearing glasses; the newer cameras have worse viewfinder eyepoint than the older ones...
And depending on where they live... the younger generation has the rather somewhat more important problem that a place to live is too expensive; many pay ridiculous high rents for lousy apartments.

I still don't know how to type alt-codes on a W530 though, although that seems to be something almost nobody does anyway...
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Re: In defense of the Thinkpad 25

#17 Post by Yossarian1 » Sat Apr 21, 2018 4:59 pm

I for one like it.

When it came out last year I was a little confused about how "retro" it was. After 2+ years with another company that doesn't listen to it's customers (MS) I felt like another laptop. My T430 is good, but it is not as portable as a tablet (Surface Pro 4), but the tablet is not as productive either.

Lenovo budged off the asking price enough for me, and they made a little profit I'm sure. Looking forward to it :D
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Re: In defense of the Thinkpad 25

#18 Post by dr_st » Sun Apr 22, 2018 3:15 am

It's not retro.

It's just a (very good) modern laptop with the 7-row keyboard that many of us hold dear. Which is exactly what I (and many others) wanted, but obviously not what some dreamed about.
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Re: In defense of the Thinkpad 25

#19 Post by Yossarian1 » Sun Apr 22, 2018 7:23 pm

dr_st wrote:
Sun Apr 22, 2018 3:15 am
It's not retro.
I got that, but it is how it was described even by Lenovo, hence my confusion.

"Go retro with our anniversary edition
To commemorate 25 years of ThinkPad, we're paying homage to some of the original aesthetics of that first model, while maintaining the powerful performance and mobile agility of today's configurations. So, as you use this special anniversary edition to accomplish your next big thing, consider how far we've traveled together along the road to different."


Keyboard, Logo's, and well boxy. Either way, still like it.
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Re: In defense of the Thinkpad 25

#20 Post by micrex22 » Mon May 28, 2018 1:55 am

ajkula66 wrote:
Tue Jan 23, 2018 5:55 pm
What people *do* hate is the way Lenovo went about a lot of things over the past decade - all discussed ad nauseam on this forum and elsewhere - and crowned it with the slap in the face that many perceive TP25 to be after the entire "Retro" charade.
Yeah exactly. It's Lenovo's *attitude* problem; this hasn't solved anything. I own an X1 Carbon 4th gen and the TP 25, being a limited edition on limited hardware with limited options wasn't enough for me to care. It's a compromise no matter how you cut it.

If I want the IBM experience with ZERO compromise I'll just whip out a T4x and call it a day. Lenovo will never bother with something like that.. and that's sort of the issue. A 1080p AUO display? Only a moron would want that... an IDtech or LG display eat those for breakfast and spit them out. You just can't retrograde to something cheap and be satisfied after you know what's good.

Maybe that's what its true name is. The ThinkPad 25 Retrograde, LOL!

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Re: In defense of the Thinkpad 25

#21 Post by tdot » Thu Jun 28, 2018 2:33 am

micrex22 wrote:
Mon May 28, 2018 1:55 am
ajkula66 wrote:
Tue Jan 23, 2018 5:55 pm
What people *do* hate is the way Lenovo went about a lot of things over the past decade - all discussed ad nauseam on this forum and elsewhere - and crowned it with the slap in the face that many perceive TP25 to be after the entire "Retro" charade.
Yeah exactly. It's Lenovo's *attitude* problem; this hasn't solved anything.
I think that's what annoyed me most, personally. They asked everybody what they want in a "Retro" version, and delivered absolutely none of it ... if they didn't want to listen, why bother asking?

I don't believe they made a 'serious effort', though. It's not like it's hard to find a high res 16:10/4:3 screen online. The Apples have 16:10 screens and the Surface Book 2 has a 3:2 screen. If US companies can easily source them, a Chinese company definitely can. I'm certain they could have easily fit one of those in the existing bezel with little effort. I think if they at LEAST put a 16:10 screen a lot of people would have been happier. It's a little disappointing they designed it before the 8th generation hardware was out, but I don't think that's actually their fault - plus to me it's kind of irrelevant. If you were really looking for the "fastest laptop", one should be looking at a workstation anyway ...

I think at full price they are a little 'overpriced' for what they offer, but they're certainly not 'crap'. I bought one because it was 33% off and I was looking for a new laptop anyway. For that price, it's totally worth it, and a good laptop. I've had 0 issues with mine so far, and the build quality is great. Unless you're comparing it to something like the Surface Pro 2 (which is far more expensive, and IMO ugly as hell - if it didn't look so hideous, I would have strongly considered it), it's still better than most available, and actually still has ports... Plus, I think it's a good idea to try and give some support to a good idea when you see one (I can't stand modern keyboards). Maybe if they sell enough, they'd consider making the keyboard an option for other models as well? We can hope? :??:



As for the defense video, I think a major flaw in a lot of the reasoning is that you're assuming Lenovo designs for what 'consumers' want. Consumers are probably less than 10% of their business. Levono sells to large companies, who want the cheapest price possible for tens/hundreds of thousands of laptops, that don't really care what the screen or keyboard is as long as their employees are productive. They are most likely the #1 focus for Lenovo (and rightfully so, if that's where the majority of their income comes from, they ARE a business after all).

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Re: In defense of the Thinkpad 25

#22 Post by dr_st » Thu Jun 28, 2018 3:21 am

tdot wrote:
Thu Jun 28, 2018 2:33 am
They asked everybody what they want in a "Retro" version, and delivered absolutely none of it ... if they didn't want to listen, why bother asking?
That's not true. They delivered the 7-row keyboard, and the most popular expansion options that were requested. The most important real thing that they did not deliver is the screen ratio; the rest were mostly mutually-exclusive demands.
tdot wrote:
Thu Jun 28, 2018 2:33 am
Maybe if they sell enough, they'd consider making the keyboard an option for other models as well? We can hope? :??:
They did sell enough to conclude that the 7-row keyboard will attract customers. But it usually takes influencing a few key people to make the business decisions. I suggest everyone tries every channel they have to reach Lenovo executives and tell them about it. :)
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Re: In defense of the Thinkpad 25

#23 Post by tdot » Thu Jun 28, 2018 3:29 am

dr_st wrote:
Thu Jun 28, 2018 3:21 am
tdot wrote:
Thu Jun 28, 2018 2:33 am
They asked everybody what they want in a "Retro" version, and delivered absolutely none of it ... if they didn't want to listen, why bother asking?
That's not true. They delivered the 7-row keyboard, and the most popular expansion options that were requested. The most important real thing that they did not deliver is the screen ratio; the rest were mostly mutually-exclusive demands.
The Ethernet port? It's already on the lowest level T470 :lol:
dr_st wrote:
Thu Jun 28, 2018 3:21 am
tdot wrote:
Thu Jun 28, 2018 2:33 am
Maybe if they sell enough, they'd consider making the keyboard an option for other models as well? We can hope? :??:
They did sell enough to conclude that the 7-row keyboard will attract customers. But it usually takes influencing a few key people to make the business decisions. I suggest everyone tries every channel they have to reach Lenovo executives and tell them about it. :)
Executives? The only thing they will understand is $, so if we really want to get their attention we should buy one :thumbs-UP:

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Re: In defense of the Thinkpad 25

#24 Post by dr_st » Thu Jun 28, 2018 3:46 am

tdot wrote:
Thu Jun 28, 2018 3:29 am
The Ethernet port? It's already on the lowest level T470 :lol:
Precisely. The 5 most popular selections according to this survey: USB 3.0, Ethernet, SD Card, Type C, HDMI. The T470 has exactly these ports, and the T470 was chosen as a basis to TP25.

Also in that survey - the vast majority preferred a thinner and lighter system, which also got reflected in the design choice.
dr_st wrote:
Thu Jun 28, 2018 3:21 am
Executives? The only thing they will understand is $, so if we really want to get their attention we should buy one :thumbs-UP:
I bought one, and so did you. But as individuals we cannot buy enough units to be noticed. What we can is explain the business model.
Current: Thinkpad 25 (20K7), Yoga 14 (20FY), X220 4291-4BG, T410 2537-R46, T60 2007-QPG, T42 2373-F7G
Collectibles: T430s (IPS FHD + Classic Keyboard), X32 (IPS Screen)
Retired: X61 7673-V2V, T60 1952-F76, A31p w/ Ultrabay Numpad

tdot
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Location: Toronto, Canada

Re: In defense of the Thinkpad 25

#25 Post by tdot » Thu Jun 28, 2018 4:32 am

dr_st wrote:
Thu Jun 28, 2018 3:46 am
tdot wrote:
Thu Jun 28, 2018 3:29 am
The Ethernet port? It's already on the lowest level T470 :lol:
Precisely. The 5 most popular selections according to this survey: USB 3.0, Ethernet, SD Card, Type C, HDMI. The T470 has exactly these ports, and the T470 was chosen as a basis to TP25.

Also in that survey - the vast majority preferred a thinner and lighter system, which also got reflected in the design choice.
Well, that's true, and that's why I wouldn't say the laptop is 'crap' by any means. I think they made the right decision for the chassis - for a personal (non-workstation) laptop I prefer 13-14 inches. What is really 'crap' are the new MacBooks (USB C ONLY? Who actually has any USB C device that isn't a phone?).

But still, those port selections are 'standard' for a lot of laptops. Up until the latest generation, the 15" Latitude had a decent (non-chiclet) keyboard and all of those ports (with the exception of a Type C), so it's nothing really 'special'. It's really just a T470 with a different keyboard. One would assume a 25th anniversary edition is supposed to be a 'special' laptop.

A ThinkLight would have cost them what, a few dollars for the LEDs (and still was the preferred choice)? Of course, it would have required a redesign of the bezel, which they were trying to avoid ... or they could have put a 16:10 screen in. They could have easily put both, and made everyone happy. I personally would have preferred both - I love backlit keyboards, but the ThinkLight is just cool and iconic.

Since they did redesign the keyboard, were status indicators so hard? They were also preferred ...

And sorry but, what is up with the B key!? None of my vintage ThinkPads are like that ... not that I care/notice while typing, but it looks funny in pictures next to them :)

Not saying any of this makes it a bad laptop, just that it shows they didn't really care. Slapping a new keyboard into an existing model for me isn't really 'caring'. And I wouldn't blame David Hill either - from my personal experience with execs, the vast majority only care about bottom line, never about doing whats right (but that's kind of their job, no?).

The only part I think is sad, is that for a 'retro anniversary edition' they were obviously targeting die hard ThinkPad fans. Anybody who 'doesn't care about a keyboard' would opt for the same hardware $800 cheaper in a T470. I don't think they ever expected it to be a huge selling laptop, which is why I don't understand why they didn't realize they probably would have sold the same number of units for $4000 USD if they actually gave us everything we wanted.

But enough complaining, it's still a great laptop :)

dr_st
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Re: In defense of the Thinkpad 25

#26 Post by dr_st » Thu Jun 28, 2018 6:15 am

tdot wrote:
Thu Jun 28, 2018 4:32 am
A ThinkLight would have cost them what, a few dollars for the LEDs
More like a few cents...
tdot wrote:
Thu Jun 28, 2018 4:32 am
(and still was the preferred choice)? Of course, it would have required a redesign of the bezel, which they were trying to avoid ... or they could have put a 16:10 screen in. They could have easily put both, and made everyone happy. I personally would have preferred both - I love backlit keyboards, but the ThinkLight is just cool and iconic.
I would have liked both as well. But it's not a deal-breaker.
tdot wrote:
Thu Jun 28, 2018 4:32 am
Since they did redesign the keyboard, were status indicators so hard? They were also preferred ...
Caps Lock light is there and works. More than I can say about the **30 series with the modded keyboard. :)
tdot wrote:
Thu Jun 28, 2018 4:32 am
Not saying any of this makes it a bad laptop, just that it shows they didn't really care.
They did not want to take risks. They did not want to create a retro model, but just something 'special' for the anniversary. I think a lot of the backlash is because some were expecting a retro model. I was just hoping to get the good keyboard. :wink:
tdot wrote:
Thu Jun 28, 2018 4:32 am
from my personal experience with execs, the vast majority only care about bottom line, never about doing whats right (but that's kind of their job, no?).
The thing is - "bottom line" is something that can be easily seen. "What's right" is harder, because who is to define that? What's right for me isn't necessarily right for you, or for John Doe.
tdot wrote:
Thu Jun 28, 2018 4:32 am
Anybody who 'doesn't care about a keyboard' would opt for the same hardware $800 cheaper in a T470.
Well, as was shown, the difference "for the same hardware" has never been close to $800, but given the frequent perks on regular T470, it was quite substantial nonetheless. And it's true that T470 had much cheaper options if you were willing to compromise a bit on the hardware (or on the warranty).
tdot wrote:
Thu Jun 28, 2018 4:32 am
I don't understand why they didn't realize they probably would have sold the same number of units for $4000 USD if they actually gave us everything we wanted.
Because, in all honesty, they probably wouldn't.
tdot wrote:
Thu Jun 28, 2018 4:32 am
But enough complaining, it's still a great laptop :)
It sure is! :D
Current: Thinkpad 25 (20K7), Yoga 14 (20FY), X220 4291-4BG, T410 2537-R46, T60 2007-QPG, T42 2373-F7G
Collectibles: T430s (IPS FHD + Classic Keyboard), X32 (IPS Screen)
Retired: X61 7673-V2V, T60 1952-F76, A31p w/ Ultrabay Numpad

amardeep
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Re: In defense of the Thinkpad 25

#27 Post by amardeep » Sun Jul 01, 2018 5:59 am

tdot wrote:
Thu Jun 28, 2018 3:29 am
Executives? The only thing they will understand is $, so if we really want to get their attention we should buy one :thumbs-UP:
Can't do so, not available in the UK. Why was the release so region specific ? Seems weird.

The original David Hill render looked much nicer, but over time, since the T25 is all we're getting I guess I may well have gone for a T25.

Having made 'just' a T470 with a nicer keyboard, it seems a bit weird they didn't do a followup T480 or T480s variant, seems like low risk and quite easy to do ? One model a year with the (new) old keyboard would've been nice.

dr_st
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Re: In defense of the Thinkpad 25

#28 Post by dr_st » Sun Jul 01, 2018 7:14 am

amardeep wrote:
Sun Jul 01, 2018 5:59 am
Having made 'just' a T470 with a nicer keyboard, it seems a bit weird they didn't do a followup T480 or T480s variant, seems like low risk and quite easy to do ? One model a year with the (new) old keyboard would've been nice.
IMO that's exactly what the users should try to get through to Lenovo executives. Except I would suggest different models and not the same 14" mainstream laptop (even if you still only have one a year).
Current: Thinkpad 25 (20K7), Yoga 14 (20FY), X220 4291-4BG, T410 2537-R46, T60 2007-QPG, T42 2373-F7G
Collectibles: T430s (IPS FHD + Classic Keyboard), X32 (IPS Screen)
Retired: X61 7673-V2V, T60 1952-F76, A31p w/ Ultrabay Numpad

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