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T60/32bitOS/W7: What to do ???

T60/T61 series specific matters only
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Annecy
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T60/32bitOS/W7: What to do ???

#1 Post by Annecy » Fri May 25, 2018 10:57 am

Earlier this past week ...
I bought a (my first) T60 ...
So/Now ... I'm trying to decide ... "what to do with it" :?
(I've found/read TP.c ForumThreads
similar to this thread I'm now starting/posting ...
Hope this won't be "boring" ... to any/one ... "out there" !!!
)

I've contacted IceWobs ... about the
special T60 BIOS/flash that IceWobs "assembled" :thumbs-UP:

There are aspects of this particular T60 that I quite like ...
and others "not so much":

This particular T60 has a
a Yonah MotherBoard ~ with the 3gb RAM limit/ation ...
and a (Yonah) "32-bit" T2400 CoreDuo CPU ...

Do only T60's with Yonah CPUs have Yonah Motherboards ...
i.e., Do T60's with Merom CPUs have Merom or Yonah MoBos :?:
Do only T60's with Yonah CPUs have the 3gb RAM limit/ation :?:


I could put a (compatible) "64-bit" CPU in the T60 ...
~ either a (compatible) Merom CPU on the Yonah MoBo
(which would then still have the 3gb RAM limit/ation ...
Is running 64-bit Win7 with 3gb RAM "worth it"
:?:)
~ OR do a CPU AND a MoBo swap:
possibly a T60 Merom (if they exist) MoBo :?:
or a T61 NOS nVidia NV140 MoBo ...
(which would then NOT have the 3gb RAM limit/ation)

What are the possible ways to remove the T60 3gb RAM limit/ation :?:

SO ... I am wondering about the above items/issues ...
Any clarifications would be appreciated :bow:


Here's something else I'd like to clarify:
Right now ... my T61 14.1ws has a T7500 Core2Duo Merom
and is running 32-bit WIn7 ~
which (natively) only "recognizes" 3gb RAM, right ???

Ever since I changed the HDD in my (MiddletonBIOS) T61
to a HGST Travelstar 7K1000 1TB 7200 RPM 32MB Cache SATA 6.0Gb/s,
my T61 has been running ... (what I would call) WELL ... as WELL as ever ~
which means ... with (usually/almost) no noticeable latency ...
between keyboard execution and T61/W7OS execution ...

SO ...
I could also just keep the T2400 ... (& Yonah MoBo)
(I do not yet/even know how "well" that runs)

If I simply upgraded the T60
to run 32-bit Win7 with 4gb RAM installed,
on a "good" HDD (is SSD on a T60 "worth it" :?:)
then possibly the T60 would function
almost or at least as well ... if not better than my T61ws currently runs ???

How much better would the T60 run
with a T7x00 (or T5x00) vs the T2400
:?:
2005: T30 2366-85U (XP)
2015: T43 2686-M7U
2017: T61 14.1"ws
2018: T61p 6457-V9K ¦ T60 2008-4AU & 2613-CTO ¦ T420s 4174-BB4
2017: 2 OtC MS-W7s

(WiP: :help:
~revive T30 XP-install ¦ ~T43 SATA-MOD
~sell T61ws
~Max T61p & T60-2008
~Find Ultimate "ClassicTP"
)

axur-delmeria
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Re: T60/32bitOS/W7: What to do ???

#2 Post by axur-delmeria » Fri May 25, 2018 12:10 pm

All T60 models suffer from the 3GB RAM limit, because it's a chipset + BIOS issue and not related to the processor.
Daily driver: X220 4291-C91 i7-2620M

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axur-delmeria
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Re: T60/32bitOS/W7: What to do ???

#3 Post by axur-delmeria » Fri May 25, 2018 1:14 pm

Annecy wrote:
Fri May 25, 2018 12:32 pm

~only a MoBo swap ... (like a T61 MoBo MOD/swap ...)
would remove the 3gb RAM limit/ation ...
Correct.
Annecy wrote:
Fri May 25, 2018 12:32 pm
Is 64-bit (Win7) OS on a 3gb T60 "worth it" :?:
Is an SSD in a T60 "worth it" :?:
How much better would the T60 run
with a T7x00 (or T5x00) vs the T2400
:?:
64-bit? IMO no, since 64-bit programs use more RAM compared to their 32-bit counterparts.

SSD? Worth it. One advantage of SSDs is lower access time: 0.2 millisecond, compared to 5-20 milliseconds for normal hard drives.

CPU upgrade? If you can find a T7400 or T7600 for cheap, get it. You'll probably notice the difference in video playback, esp in higher resolutions.
Daily driver: X220 4291-C91 i7-2620M

Backup: X220 4291-P79 i5-2520M
Toy: X60F Core Solo U1300
In pieces: two retired but working X61Ts
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:cry:

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Re: T60/32bitOS/W7: What to do ???

#4 Post by ajkula66 » Fri May 25, 2018 7:20 pm

SSD is "worth it" in *any* system that will play nice with it - as in from T4x series on - and T60 is no exception. IMO, that is.

T7200/7400 is an inexpensive upgrade nowadays and well worth a few bucks in my book.

I'd stay within the 32-bit realm software-wise even after the CPU upgrade, though.

My $0.02 only...
...Knowledge is a deadly friend when no one sets the rules...(King Crimson)

Cheers,

George (your grouchy retired FlexView farmer)

AARP club members:A31p,T43pSF

Abused daily: T61p

PMs requesting personal tech support will be ignored.

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Re: T60/32bitOS/W7: What to do ???

#5 Post by Sweater Fish Deluxe » Thu Jun 21, 2018 5:52 pm

The T7600 is indeed the best CPU you can put on T60 motherboard and by now they can be had for pretty cheap, though still several times as expensive as a T7400 without any noticeable difference in performance probably. "Several times as expensive" just means $25 instead of $5 these days, though, so maybe not important.

It seems that replacing the BIOS with Coreboot does finally allow accessing more than 3GB of RAM. For years there was no solution to accessing that memory, but with Coreboot either 3.25GB is available with default config or up to 3.75GB if you're willing to permanently disable some PCI devices. Coreboot installation isn't easy, though. I had to install it on my T420 a few months ago to recover from a botched BIOS update and it was not very easy to figure it out. I'll probably go through it on my Z61t (which has a T60 motherboard) eventually, though, because I gotta get them extra rams.

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Re: T60/32bitOS/W7: What to do ???

#6 Post by Screamer » Fri Jun 22, 2018 3:24 am

Isn't the T7600G the fastest processor that you can install in the T60? The T7600G has an unlocked multiplier that can realistically give itself an edge over the stock T7600 by overclocking up to 2.66GHz/2.83GHz, based on previous reports of people running them in their T60(p).

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Re: T60/32bitOS/W7: What to do ???

#7 Post by wujstefan » Fri Jun 22, 2018 5:08 am

Sweater Fish Deluxe wrote:
Thu Jun 21, 2018 5:52 pm
It seems that replacing the BIOS with Coreboot does finally allow accessing more than 3GB of RAM. For years there was no solution to accessing that memory, but with Coreboot either 3.25GB is available with default config or up to 3.75GB if you're willing to permanently disable some PCI devices.
Are you sure about that?

I don't think it has anything to do with BIOS. I am however aware that some distros produced info of 3.75Gb usable RAM in those units, which turned out to be bllsht.
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Re: T60/32bitOS/W7: What to do ???

#8 Post by Sweater Fish Deluxe » Fri Jun 22, 2018 4:20 pm

Well, I don't want to say I'm absolutely sure since I haven't done it myself yet, but here's a couple people that are reporting their direct experience of Coreboot giving access to more RAM

https://mail.coreboot.org/pipermail/cor ... 67954.html

http://mailman.linux-thinkpad.org/piper ... 52397.html

Carl-Daniel Hailfinger and Peter Stuge are both primary Coreboot developers, so I trust that they know what they're talking about on this. It does make sense that it depends on the BIOS because all that's going on is that hardware resources are being mapped in the memory map to areas between 3 and 4GB. There's some unused regions in what's allocated, though, especially on motherboards without discrete graphics, and like I said, you could also disable some of the resources like cardbus and allow those to remain open, too.

I don't know when I'll get around to building this for my Z61t, but it's something I've been planning on and I'll report back how it goes after I do.

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Re: T60/32bitOS/W7: What to do ???

#9 Post by axur-delmeria » Tue Jun 26, 2018 1:04 am

IMO only get the AC7260 when you already have an AC wifi router, or plan to get one in the near future.
Daily driver: X220 4291-C91 i7-2620M

Backup: X220 4291-P79 i5-2520M
Toy: X60F Core Solo U1300
In pieces: two retired but working X61Ts
RIP: 760XD 9546-U9E; X61 7676-A24; and a BOE-Hydis HV121P01-100 in failed SXGA+ mod
:cry:

Annecy
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Re: T60/32bitOS/W7: What to do ???

#10 Post by Annecy » Tue Jun 26, 2018 4:24 pm

axur-delmeria wrote:
Tue Jun 26, 2018 1:04 am
"IMO only get the AC7260
when you already have an AC wifi router,
or plan to get one in the near future.
"
I can only guess ...
the/your rationale ... for the above :?:
Could/Would you elaborate :?:

Also / In any case ...
What options are there for the 2nd T60 PCI slot :?:

axur-delmeria
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Re: T60/32bitOS/W7: What to do ???

#11 Post by axur-delmeria » Wed Jun 27, 2018 12:57 am

Wifi AC is a relatively new standard. In order to take advantage of its features (like higher speed), it has to connect to a wifi-AC router or access point.
If your home, workplace, or other places you frequent already have wifi AC routers installed, then it's indeed a good idea to upgrade.

Otherwise, I don't think it's worth the hassle.
Daily driver: X220 4291-C91 i7-2620M

Backup: X220 4291-P79 i5-2520M
Toy: X60F Core Solo U1300
In pieces: two retired but working X61Ts
RIP: 760XD 9546-U9E; X61 7676-A24; and a BOE-Hydis HV121P01-100 in failed SXGA+ mod
:cry:

Screamer
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Re: T60/32bitOS/W7: What to do ???

#12 Post by Screamer » Wed Jun 27, 2018 1:39 pm

Annecy wrote:
Tue Jun 26, 2018 4:24 pm
Also / In any case ...
What options are there for the 2nd T60 PCI slot :?:
Only a WWAN card, unfortunately. My understanding of the WWAN slot in the T60 is a MiniPCIE slot without the PCIE lanes going to it, only USB lanes. I believe most WWAN cards were USB-only, so that makes sense that the WWAN slot in the T60 had only USB lanes going to it.

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Re: T60/32bitOS/W7: What to do ???

#13 Post by Sweater Fish Deluxe » Wed Jun 27, 2018 3:07 pm

There are a few other mini-PCIe format cards available that I'm aware of that only require the USB lanes, so they work in the T60's WWAN slot. Things like card readers that could provide some extra storage space or even a straight USB port that you should be able to plug anything you want into as long as it fits. I'm also aware of TV tuner cards and HD video decoder cards that would work in that port. There's even at least one wifi-n card that you could put in there, which would then free up the main WLAN slot, which does have the PCI lanes if you have some other card that needs those.

It's important to reiterate that all of these options (including putting an AC7260 card into the WLAN slot) require replacing the stock BIOS with a whitelist removed hack like Zender's BIOS. Otherwise the system will not boot with a non-approved card inserted.

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Re: T60/32bitOS/W7: What to do ???

#14 Post by Screamer » Thu Jun 28, 2018 3:28 am

Sweater Fish Deluxe wrote:
Wed Jun 27, 2018 3:07 pm
I'm also aware of TV tuner cards and HD video decoder cards that would work in that port. There's even at least one wifi-n card that you could put in there, which would then free up the main WLAN slot, which does have the PCI lanes if you have some other card that needs those.
You might be confusing the T60's WWAN slot for the T61's WWAN slot, the T61's WWAN slot has both USB and PCIE lanes going to it. I do not think a TV tuner or a HD video decoder would work in the T60's WWAN slot, much less a wireless adapter.

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Re: T60/32bitOS/W7: What to do ???

#15 Post by TPFanatic » Thu Jun 28, 2018 9:09 am

This Youtube video shows two Z61p one with and one without Broadcom BCM970015 PCIe card. Z61p and T60 both use Napa chipset so if it works in Z61p it probably works in T60.
lenovo T61 T7500, SXGA+, 8GB
lenovo T410s i5 520m, WXGA+, 4GB
lenovo T430 i5 3320m, FHD, 8GB
lenovo T500 P9700, WUXGA, 8GB
lenovo T520 i7 2760QM, FHD, 8GB



Enable 2 finger scroll on any Synaptics touchpads with registry: http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=122612

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Re: T60/32bitOS/W7: What to do ???

#16 Post by Screamer » Thu Jun 28, 2018 10:14 am

Shredder11 wrote:
Sun Jan 01, 2017 6:47 pm
In my Z61p the WWAN socket is not as fully specified as the X61, so I had to remove the WiFi and use that instead.
Shredder11 posted that video, and he did mention in one post that he had to take out the wireless adapter to make room for his HD video accelerator card. I am sure that the WWAN slot is very limited and does not accept that Broadcom HD video accelerator, or even a wireless adapter.

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Re: T60/32bitOS/W7: What to do ???

#17 Post by Sweater Fish Deluxe » Thu Jun 28, 2018 10:27 am

I thought there was at least one Broadcom HD card that was USB only, though I never got around to buying one, so I'm not sure.

I did buy both the wifi card and TV tuner, though. The wifi card is a Realtek RTL8191SU. The -U at the end indicates that it's a USB model. There's a similar RTL8191SE that works through PCI. The TV tuner card I have is an Avermedia A327, but I think most if not all of their other mini-PCIe cards are USB, too. Like I said, I've tested these and they work in the WWAN slot and I confirmed that they're connected via USB.

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Re: T60/32bitOS/W7: What to do ???

#18 Post by Screamer » Thu Jun 28, 2018 10:41 am

I was not aware of that, that helps the original poster a lot however. If you added a little more detail and what were the cards in question, then I would have not automatically assumed that you were referring to the T61's WWAN slot. These standards are confusing and I had not known of some MiniPCIE cards that used the USB bus; I never knew that the RTL8191SU actually came in a MiniPCIE form factor either.

Thanks for shedding light on the T60's (and equivalent) ridiculous WWAN slot that happens to have only USB lanes going through it.

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Re: T60/32bitOS/W7: What to do ???

#19 Post by axur-delmeria » Thu Jun 28, 2018 10:53 am

Sweater Fish Deluxe wrote:
Thu Jun 28, 2018 10:27 am
I thought there was at least one Broadcom HD card that was USB only, though I never got around to buying one, so I'm not sure.
A USB-based Broadcom HD card impossible, because the decoder chip itself is PCIe. Furthermore, the chip has to transfer the decoded video frames to system memory (or graphics memory) in order to be displayed-- the bandwidth requirement for that exceeds USB 2.0.
Daily driver: X220 4291-C91 i7-2620M

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In pieces: two retired but working X61Ts
RIP: 760XD 9546-U9E; X61 7676-A24; and a BOE-Hydis HV121P01-100 in failed SXGA+ mod
:cry:

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Re: T60/32bitOS/W7: What to do ???

#20 Post by Sweater Fish Deluxe » Thu Jun 28, 2018 1:50 pm

Hm, yeah, that makes sense. I may well be wrong about the HD decoder card.

You still ought to be able to put that Realtek RTL8191SU wifi card in the WWAN slot and then the HD decoder in the original WLAN slot, though. I never tested the Realtek card extensively, but the overall speed seemed comparable to PCIe 2x2 cards. Power management and things like that might present some issues if you were really trying to use it full time.

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Re: T60/32bitOS/W7: What to do ???

#21 Post by Annecy » Fri Jun 29, 2018 9:47 pm

axur-delmeria wrote:
Wed Jun 27, 2018 12:57 am
"Wifi AC is a relatively new standard. In order to take advantage of its features (like higher speed),
it has to connect to a wifi-AC router or access point.
If your home, workplace, or other places you frequent already have wifi AC routers installed,
then it's indeed a good idea to upgrade.

Otherwise, I don't think it's worth the hassle.
"
OK ...
from my perspective ...
1) I already have the (AC7260) card/s;
2) ... already have to (re-)open the ThinkPad/s in question;
3) Although I still/only have my WiFi Hot "@Home" ...
(& sometimes when out&about ...)
I do frequent places seemingly with WiFi AC routers;
Here's my (new) T43 T-Link miniPCI WiFi connection ...
"@Home" ~~~~~~~~~~ versus ~~~~~~~~~ @theHealthSpa
Image~~~~~~Image
4) "@Home" I even have improved speed & "SignalQuality":
T43 T-Link miniPCI WiFi vs the original/installed card:
Image~~~~~~~Image

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Re: T60/32bitOS/W7: What to do ???

#22 Post by Annecy » Fri Jun 29, 2018 9:59 pm

So ... this Friday afternoon ...
someone helped me successfully swap out the T2400 CPU with a T7400 CPU ...

Then we (seemingly/supposedly) successfully flashed

the (IceWobs custom-T60) BIOS;
however, when I insert an AC7260 half-height card,
the T60 will NOT boot ...

The T60 yields one (1) long & two (2) short BIOS beeps ... & a black screen ...

When I disconnect the above AC7260 miniPCI card,
the T60 boots to BIOS and/or USB stick ...

I'm not sure what to think about the above :eek:

SOOOOO ...
I seemingly need a HalfSize-to-FullSize adapter ...
to install an AC7260 WiFi card ... in the T60 ~ correct :?:
i.e., is lack of the adpater causing the above Boot/Beep Failure :?:


What about installing an AC7260 in a/ny T61/s :?:
i.e., Do I need to source the adapter
for only T60 ThinkPads :?:
or also for T61 ThinkPads :?:

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Re: T60/32bitOS/W7: What to do ???

#23 Post by Screamer » Sat Jun 30, 2018 1:41 pm

Yes, you need a half-size to a full-size adapter for this particular wireless adapter. It should work once that is installed. However if the 7260AC does not show up in the device manager or shows up as a disabled device, tape pin 20 on the MiniPCIE connector. This is at the back of the card, not at the front of the card where the Intel logo normally is located at.

EDIT: The T61 needs that too for the half-sized cards.

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Re: T60/32bitOS/W7: What to do ???

#24 Post by Annecy » Thu Jul 12, 2018 1:50 am

Screamer wrote:
Sat Jun 30, 2018 1:41 pm
"Yes, you need a half-size to a full-size adapter for this particular wireless adapter.
It should work once that is installed.
~~~
EDIT: The T61 needs that too for the half-sized cards.
"
I previously bought two (2) AC7260 cards ...
Image
off of eBay ...

I then/also bought one (1) AC7260 card ...
Image
off of CL ...

The difficulty I originally described ... previously/above ...
was with the CL-card ...

The CL-card error was not resolved ...
by using the adapter ...

I then tried one of the originally acquired cards ...
which did not yield any boot error/s ...
(so ... the IceWobs BIOS seems to have (fully) worked :thumbs-UP:)

I am not sure what to think about the (above) "CL-card" ... problem :?:

The "eBay-card" ... did/does not yield a "BootError" ...
yet does not (yet :?:) register with/in Win7 HomePremium ...
I just did a fresh Win7 install on/to the SSD
that had been included with the T420s I just/recently acquired ...

I have NOT (yet) installed any Win7 updates ... nor drivers/updates ...
Possibly the "eBay-card" just needs its driver :?: :??:

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Re: T60/32bitOS/W7: What to do ???

#25 Post by Screamer » Thu Jul 12, 2018 6:58 am

Very strange. It sounds like a faulty 7260AC that you got off Craigslist, though the occurrence of dead MiniPCIE wireless adapters are rare.

Does not register with Windows 7 Home Premium? Is the card detected under Device Manager as a 'Network Controller' or at least a device that has a question mark on it?

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Re: T60/32bitOS/W7: What to do ???

#26 Post by Annecy » Fri Jul 20, 2018 12:56 am

Annecy wrote:
Thu Jul 12, 2018 1:50 am
"The "eBay-card" ... did/does not yield a "BootError" ...
yet ~~~
Possibly the "eBay-card" just needs its driver :?: :??:
"
This evening ... I found/downloaded/installed the Intel® PROSet/Wireless Software/Drivers for Win7*
Ver: 20.60.0 (Latest) Date: 6/12/2018

which did/does the trick ...
for the eBay AC7260 card ... anyway :mrgreen:

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Re: T60/32bitOS/W7: What to do ???

#27 Post by Annecy » Sun Jul 22, 2018 9:22 pm

Annecy wrote:
Wed Jul 11, 2018 2:27 am
Annecy wrote:
Wed Jul 04, 2018 3:21 pm
"So ...
I just ... (in June ... 2018) bought a T420s ... off of eBay ...
This will be my first x64 OS (& 1st SSD) laptop ... 8)
"
"I've always partitioned my (nonSSD) HDDs ...
and given the install partition/s (exactly) uniform "sizes"/capacities ~
to facilitate cloning/backups ...

I'm wondering about ... how to proceed ... with an SSD :?: :?
Any "differences" ... from "how I've always done it :?:"
"
So ...
I took the 160gb SSD out of the T420s ...
Put in a 256gb Samsung 860EVO mSATA ...
and put the 160gbSSD in the T60 ...

I've previously/always enabled Full NTFS DiskCompression ...
wwwReading about NTFS-DC & SSDs hasn't been dispositive ...

Anyone "out there" ... disposed ...
one way or another ...
about NTFS-DC :?: & SSDs :?:

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Re: T60/32bitOS/W7: What to do ???

#28 Post by Annecy » Sun Aug 05, 2018 1:48 pm

The following post: :arrow:
Annecy wrote:
axur-delmeria wrote:
Fri May 25, 2018 1:14 pm
"CPU upgrade?
If you can find a T7400 or T7600 for cheap, get it.
You'll probably notice the difference in video playback, esp in higher resolutions.
"
So ...
I('ve) bought
a 2nd T60 ~
a 2613-CTO ... with ATI Radeon X1400 ... & A T5500 C2D CPU ...
This T60 has (supposedly/seemingly) spent its entire life ... so far ...
(still) inside the IBM/Lenovo box ...
The T60 is (more or less) "pristine" :thumbs-UP:

As a project ...
I'm thinking of removing the T2400 from the 1st/X1300 T60;
Removing the T5500 from the 2nd/X1400 T60;
Installing the T5500 in the X1300 T60;

Sourcing a T7600 C2D CPU;
Installing the T7600 in the X1400 T60;

I've (seemingly) found a local neighborhood/community resource center ...
with an in-house "techie" ...
who has (seemingly) agreed to help me ...
for free ... to do the above "SWAP/s" ...


Any thoughts/comments ...
... about the above :?:
especially regarding sourcing the T7600 ~
probably/likely through eBay :eek:
is (another) one of my posts ...
that mysteriously disappeared ... of the face of the Earth :??: :SH!:

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