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Why do people keep going back to Thinkpad?

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FryPpy
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Re: Why do people keep going back to Thinkpad?

#31 Post by FryPpy » Tue Apr 16, 2019 5:31 pm

My 0.2c to 701c ;)
Old ThinkPads have good BIOS with all things in place: PM bios for older systems + ACPI for newer and EC that do all this work. All this things works right till T60 era :( may be this is Lenovo's BAD thing may be this is due transition to dualcore processors ):
And what about 701c? Fn+F1! You can switch to BIOS screen from already working OS and return to work without rebooting. May be this feature is not big deal on ThinkPad. But I have seen this before only on Sun computers (Stop+A) and that was cool.
Thinkpad4by3 wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 11:40 pm
madicetea wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 11:23 pm
Did we totally ignore the world of the Panasonic Toughbooks?
Well that's basically like bringing tanks into a truck battle. Yeah I mean it's going to win on durability, but it's not at all the same thing.
Ok. Let it be Let's Note from Panasonic ;) There are a big family of notebook series under this name. Different size and features. All is slimmer and lighter than Toughbook... but only some models can be bought outside the island :(

I wanted to write separate thread "Off-Topic Stuff" in january (it was my new year present) but still Work In Progress. Upgrading Panasonic is much more harder than ThinPad.
And may be write it this weekends....
Last edited by FryPpy on Tue Apr 16, 2019 5:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Why do people keep going back to Thinkpad?

#32 Post by Thinkpad4by3 » Tue Apr 16, 2019 5:35 pm

FryPpy wrote:
Tue Apr 16, 2019 5:31 pm
My 0.2c to 701c ;)
Old ThinkPads have good BIOS with all things in place: PM bios for older systems + ACPI for newer and EC that do all this work. All this things works right till T60 era :( may be this is Lenovo's BAD thing may be this is due transition to dualcore processors ):
And what about 701c? Fn+F1! You can switch to BIOS screen from already working OS and return to work without rebooting. May be this feature is not big deal on ThinkPad. But I have seen this before only on Sun computers (Stop+A) and that was cool.
I have a Sharp and a Tandy that did that BIOS thing. Really seemed neat at first until I realized that I believe with all 3 most settings will require a reboot to take into effect or immediately reboot anyway. I have a TI laptop(some later Tandys/Panasonics did this too) where you have to use a DOS program to change the BIOS.
Thinkpad4by3's Law of the Universe.

The efficiency of two screens equally sized with equal numbers if pixels are equal. The time spent by a 4:3 user complaining about 16:9 is proportional to the inefficiency working with a 16:9 display, therefore the amount of useful work extracted is equal.

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Re: Why do people keep going back to Thinkpad?

#33 Post by FryPpy » Tue Apr 16, 2019 5:41 pm

Thinkpad4by3 wrote:
Tue Apr 16, 2019 5:35 pm
I have a Sharp and a Tandy that did that BIOS thing. Really seemed neat at first until I realized that I believe with all 3 most settings will require a reboot to take into effect or immediately reboot anyway. I have a TI laptop(some later Tandys/Panasonics did this too) where you have to use a DOS program to change the BIOS.
I understand that this feature is not very important on ThinkPad.
On SUN after Stop+A you drop to shell (like modern UEFI shell) and can do rescue actions or reboot injured OS.
AND old ThinkPads have PS utility to manage BIOS things from DOS;)

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Re: Why do people keep going back to Thinkpad?

#34 Post by Thinkpad4by3 » Tue Apr 16, 2019 5:43 pm

FryPpy wrote:
Tue Apr 16, 2019 5:41 pm
Thinkpad4by3 wrote:
Tue Apr 16, 2019 5:35 pm
I have a Sharp and a Tandy that did that BIOS thing. Really seemed neat at first until I realized that I believe with all 3 most settings will require a reboot to take into effect or immediately reboot anyway. I have a TI laptop(some later Tandys/Panasonics did this too) where you have to use a DOS program to change the BIOS.
I understand that this feature is not very important on ThinkPad.
On SUN after Stop+A you drop to shell (like modern UEFI shell) and can do rescue actions or reboot injured OS.
AND old ThinkPads have PS utility to manage BIOS things from DOS;)
Oh yeah I remember Stop-A when I was fooling around with the Sun Sparcstation that I have sitting in my closet. Wierd machines..but a handy command.
Thinkpad4by3's Law of the Universe.

The efficiency of two screens equally sized with equal numbers if pixels are equal. The time spent by a 4:3 user complaining about 16:9 is proportional to the inefficiency working with a 16:9 display, therefore the amount of useful work extracted is equal.

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Re: Why do people keep going back to Thinkpad?

#35 Post by axur-delmeria » Thu Apr 18, 2019 9:50 am

TheForgottenKing wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 9:36 pm
I've already opened up a 701C keyboard. I can post pictures of the matrix.
I'm not sure I can figure out the matrix with just pictures. It's best to have the keyboard at hand and use a multimeter in continuity test mode to verify.
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Re: Why do people keep going back to Thinkpad?

#36 Post by Thinkpad4by3 » Thu Apr 18, 2019 9:52 am

axur-delmeria wrote:
Thu Apr 18, 2019 9:50 am
TheForgottenKing wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 9:36 pm
I've already opened up a 701C keyboard. I can post pictures of the matrix.
I'm not sure I can figure out the matrix with just pictures. It's best to have the keyboard at hand and use a multimeter in continuity test mode to verify.
Screw the multimeter, get a breakout board and hook every pin up to an Arduino. There is a program that will get the pinout simply by pushing each key down. You'll be done so much quicker.
Thinkpad4by3's Law of the Universe.

The efficiency of two screens equally sized with equal numbers if pixels are equal. The time spent by a 4:3 user complaining about 16:9 is proportional to the inefficiency working with a 16:9 display, therefore the amount of useful work extracted is equal.

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Re: Why do people keep going back to Thinkpad?

#37 Post by TheForgottenKing » Thu Apr 18, 2019 9:56 pm

Thinkpad4by3 wrote:
Thu Apr 18, 2019 9:52 am
axur-delmeria wrote:
Thu Apr 18, 2019 9:50 am


I'm not sure I can figure out the matrix with just pictures. It's best to have the keyboard at hand and use a multimeter in continuity test mode to verify.
Screw the multimeter, get a breakout board and hook every pin up to an Arduino. There is a program that will get the pinout simply by pushing each key down. You'll be done so much quicker.
Can you link me to that?
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Re: Why do people keep going back to Thinkpad?

#38 Post by Thinkpad4by3 » Thu Apr 18, 2019 10:13 pm

TheForgottenKing wrote:
Thu Apr 18, 2019 9:56 pm
Thinkpad4by3 wrote:
Thu Apr 18, 2019 9:52 am

Screw the multimeter, get a breakout board and hook every pin up to an Arduino. There is a program that will get the pinout simply by pushing each key down. You'll be done so much quicker.
Can you link me to that?
https://www.instructables.com/id/How-to ... ontroller/

This shows you it all. You will need some custom adapters for the 701C's specific ribbon cable but past that it should be very similar.

About 2/3 into the video he goes into the matrix finder.
Thinkpad4by3's Law of the Universe.

The efficiency of two screens equally sized with equal numbers if pixels are equal. The time spent by a 4:3 user complaining about 16:9 is proportional to the inefficiency working with a 16:9 display, therefore the amount of useful work extracted is equal.

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Re: Why do people keep going back to Thinkpad?

#39 Post by TheForgottenKing » Fri Apr 19, 2019 11:32 am

Thinkpad4by3 wrote:
Thu Apr 18, 2019 10:13 pm
TheForgottenKing wrote:
Thu Apr 18, 2019 9:56 pm


Can you link me to that?
https://www.instructables.com/id/How-to ... ontroller/

This shows you it all. You will need some custom adapters for the 701C's specific ribbon cable but past that it should be very similar.

About 2/3 into the video he goes into the matrix finder.
Thank you
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Re: Why do people keep going back to Thinkpad?

#40 Post by Dragunov » Fri May 24, 2019 7:07 pm

Insomniac1971 wrote:
Fri Jul 20, 2018 12:55 pm
Admin you should make this sticky.

Why is that people who have had Thinkpad before, and then bought something else, keep going back to Thinkpad?


Is it an quality issue?
An stability issue?
Or the fact that Thinkpad are made to meet military standards where other brands don't brag about this?
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Re: Why do people keep going back to Thinkpad?

#41 Post by iamdmc » Thu Mar 12, 2020 1:24 pm

TheForgottenKing wrote:
Fri Apr 19, 2019 11:32 am
Thinkpad4by3 wrote:
Thu Apr 18, 2019 10:13 pm


https://www.instructables.com/id/How-to ... ontroller/

This shows you it all. You will need some custom adapters for the 701C's specific ribbon cable but past that it should be very similar.

About 2/3 into the video he goes into the matrix finder.
Thank you
Did you ever get the 701C keyboard to work with USB?
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Re: Why do people keep going back to Thinkpad?

#42 Post by TheForgottenKing » Thu Mar 12, 2020 2:43 pm

iamdmc wrote:
Thu Mar 12, 2020 1:24 pm
TheForgottenKing wrote:
Fri Apr 19, 2019 11:32 am


Thank you
Did you ever get the 701C keyboard to work with USB?
Nope, ended up working on other things.
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Re: Why do people keep going back to Thinkpad?

#43 Post by TonyJZX » Tue May 05, 2020 6:07 am

You would have to ask yourself about what attracts people to a certain product... what builds allegiance.

This same topic would be common on say the Apple forums, the Rolex forums, the Mazda MX5 forums etc. - you get it... any product that attracts a fan base... I've even seen stuff like a Dell laptop forum!

I think my first experiences with my own laptop was with a Thinkpad. You know what they say about your first...

I had used laptops at work but they werent MINE and I didnt feel anything for them.

For me, Thinkpads sort of died with the T420 series however I still find some of that "Thinkpad magic" even with the newer ones. I see flashes of that even in the e485/495s I deal with today.

I do however also like the Latitudes and the Elitebooks. The 'magic' is there in those, not as strong as Thinkpads.

Remember there's a huge legion who love Macbooks.

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Re: Why do people keep going back to Thinkpad?

#44 Post by kfzhu1229 » Tue May 05, 2020 4:30 pm

TonyJZX wrote:
Tue May 05, 2020 6:07 am
You would have to ask yourself about what attracts people to a certain product... what builds allegiance.
Yeah that is exactly what I was about to say. It is entirely possible most lads here started out with a ThinkPad and there is no reason for them to look elsewhere. Others might have tried Latitudes or Elitebooks and find themselves miss the things that they took for granted such as the great ThinkPad-original trackpoint and the consistent black look of it, as well as a very good keyboard (yeah sure the newer ones don't feel nearly as good as the older ThinkPads, but they are still excellent for their eras)
I know Dell Latitude rather well now ever since I restored a free Latitude D630 for a second life to my friend (and subsequently two Latitude D830's), and that I got a lot of three old Dell Latitudes on Canada's local classifieds Kijiji (C600, C840, CP M233ST) and restored them all into fully working order. Lots of ppl here may never have this experience (And for example, instead of a TPFancontrol for Dells, do you know that for pre-sandy bridge regular class Dell Latitude and Precision laptops, Fn+Shift+1 5 3 2 4 and then Fn+R or Fn+T will give you the same?).
Also, in addition to a Dell laptop forum, there is also a "semi-official" store selling exclusively Dell parts called parts-people.com (Dell acknowledges them and refers their customers to that website when Dell doesn't have the parts in stock)
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Re: Why do people keep going back to Thinkpad?

#45 Post by TonyJZX » Sat May 09, 2020 11:05 pm

I think the sumnmary for me is that Thinkpad has been good to me on a personal level AND they are the best when used in the enterprise. When I've worked in places that was a Thinkpad only office across hundreds if not thousands then Thinkpad usually is the choice that is lowest headache.

On the other side of the coin Ive had terrible experiences with Toshiba and Acer Travelmates across businesses.

I've had good experiences with Latitudes in business, less so with Elitebooks.

I personally had ok experiences with Acer on a personal level and ambivalent experiences in business.

Offbrands like Asus are dire on just about every level. I have a fondness for Fujitsu.. they're laptops have a curious Japanese flavour.

Some businesses just cant afford the Thinkpad Latitude Elitebook trio and thats sad if I have to work on that level.

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Re: Why do people keep going back to Thinkpad?

#46 Post by wujstefan » Tue May 12, 2020 5:53 am

Well this varies on what you value the most.

I've been using HP Elitebooks 8730w, 8740w, 8760w and 8770w, all with dreamcolor IPS (or TN for 8730w) for a while. Great displays (all but 8730w). Poor KB (8740w/8730w), fragile motherboards, high price, poor upgradeability, useless additional software, very poor battery life. 8730w used expensive DDR2 memory. And so on :) All I am left from those is a single 8760w beatup that my kids are using. I will most likely install AMD M4000 GPU in it since it's still better than the quadro it sports, and will live happily.

Later on I moved to Dell Precision - first M6400 Covet with RGB LED, later on M6600 (FHD TN) and M6700 (FHD Premiercolor IPS). Very good displays (all of them, albeit I liked Dreamcolors better - even though they are not 100% matte), great upgradeability (with modded GPUs as a cherry on top of the cake), good battery life on Optimus (FHD TN only). Tragically bad, almost non-existent trackpoint, poor keyboard, lots of issues with peripherials and... poor driver support! I've got rid of them and am left with M6400 Covet only (and I will keep it as a retro WUXGA gaming machine, even though I have some issues with QX9300). This orange baby is just beautiful :)

After selling the last one - M6700 w/premiercolor I have bought P50. And after a screen mod I cannot imagine getting back to any of those before. I know it's 15,4" vs 17,3", but the keyboard+trackpoint+vantage software were deciding factors.

Aaaand I've bought P50 for less money than I've got from my M6700 :P

Note: I am a CAD designer, that's why you can see workstation-class systems here :)
Too many thinkpads not enough time!
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Re: Why do people keep going back to Thinkpad?

#47 Post by atagunov » Tue May 12, 2020 9:32 am

T520, X220: sturdiness, repairbility, reliability, aesthetics. Classic keyboard
T60: hopefully will be a nice project to hack on, the last big 4:3

P.S. never use the nipple

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