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Lenovo CES 2020

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amardeep
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Lenovo CES 2020

#1 Post by amardeep » Sun Dec 01, 2019 1:02 pm

Another year, another CES thread (following the Lenovo CES 2019 and Lenovo CES 2018 threads). What major excitements await us ? The name change to T14, X13 etc, and ... well not sure much else of note is going to happen apart from the usual minor feature / component bumps ?

Puppy
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Re: Lenovo CES 2020

#2 Post by Puppy » Mon Dec 02, 2019 4:49 am

amardeep wrote:
Sun Dec 01, 2019 1:02 pm
What major excitements await us ?
The fading light of the do-it-all business laptop
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Re: Lenovo CES 2020

#3 Post by ajkula66 » Mon Dec 02, 2019 6:28 am

Puppy wrote:
Mon Dec 02, 2019 4:49 am
amardeep wrote:
Sun Dec 01, 2019 1:02 pm
What major excitements await us ?
The fading light of the do-it-all business laptop
Yep.

A decade ago anyone who would've suggested removing the RJ45 (LAN) port from a business laptop would've been laughed out of the room, at the very least. Nowadays it's the new norm... :roll:

And that's just scratching the top of the proverbial iceberg...
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Re: Lenovo CES 2020

#4 Post by Puppy » Mon Dec 02, 2019 7:09 am

ajkula66 wrote:
Mon Dec 02, 2019 6:28 am
A decade ago anyone who would've suggested removing the RJ45 (LAN) port from a business laptop would've been laughed out of the room
And there is no substitute. Wi-Fi is crap unless you live on a desert island with no other router 10 km away. But in typical residential area when you can see 100 networks it is pretty useless. Similar to no expansion RAM slot; 16 GB RAM model is typically much more expensive than the base 8 GB RAM + 8 GB upgrade, because there is no web configurator in second-class countries like this one. To get the 16 GB RAM configuration you have to pick i7 with overpriced big capacity SSD.

USB-C is a disaster when it comes to reliability, there are numerous reports of mechanically broken USB-C ports in a short period of time. And the repair cost is very high as you have to replace the system board.

No wonder I've returned to desktop PC + cheap laptop combo.
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Re: Lenovo CES 2020

#5 Post by Thinkpad4by3 » Mon Dec 02, 2019 8:29 am

I don't even get why they don't make one model based off the modular model of laptops. Like if a company brought out a small phone...there is just nothin' else like it and for that segment it could be the only thing you can buy. I feel like it really wouldn't be such a loss if they made something...I don't know LIKE ANOTHER T25!!
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Re: Lenovo CES 2020

#6 Post by Ibthink » Mon Dec 02, 2019 10:42 am

amardeep wrote:
Sun Dec 01, 2019 1:02 pm
Another year, another CES thread (following the Lenovo CES 2019 and Lenovo CES 2018 threads). What major excitements await us ? The name change to T14, X13 etc, and ... well not sure much else of note is going to happen apart from the usual minor feature / component bumps ?
Yeah, mostly I think that it will be a small update this year. The P, X and T series designs are still pretty fresh, so I would not expect Lenovo to release yet another redesign just yet.

The most interesting question will be: Is there going to be an Ice-Lake powered ThinkPad? Most mainstream models will probably adopt Comet Lake, which is a small update (besides the hexa-core option). Also, what happens to the ThinkPad X1 Tablet? It is still stuck with Kaby Lake Refresh. So there are still a few areas where not everything is known.
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Re: Lenovo CES 2020

#7 Post by dr_st » Mon Dec 02, 2019 11:25 am

Puppy wrote:
Mon Dec 02, 2019 7:09 am
Wi-Fi is crap unless you live on a desert island with no other router 10 km away. But in typical residential area when you can see 100 networks it is pretty useless.
You know, I kinda don't think you are correct about how it works...
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Re: Lenovo CES 2020

#8 Post by Puppy » Mon Dec 02, 2019 2:31 pm

dr_st wrote:
Mon Dec 02, 2019 11:25 am
You know, I kinda don't think you are correct about how it works...
Wi-Fi b/g has three separate channels only, n has eight. If you can see almost 100 networks nearby, all of them have to share it. The "old" gigabit LAN has always full 1 Gbps speed and less than 1ms latency 24 hours a day. Anything that isn't equal or better than this is crap.
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Re: Lenovo CES 2020

#9 Post by ajkula66 » Mon Dec 02, 2019 3:36 pm

Puppy wrote:
Mon Dec 02, 2019 2:31 pm
If you can see almost 100 networks nearby
Then you are in a pretty congested area, and even AC or the new AX might not be able to save you. In this type of environment, wired LAN is a must.
The "old" gigabit LAN has always full 1 Gbps speed and less than 1ms latency 24 hours a day. Anything that isn't equal or better than this is crap.
Not all wired connections are created equal either BUT presuming that one is sitting on a high-speed FTTH/FTTP circuit I would agree.
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Re: Lenovo CES 2020

#10 Post by dr_st » Mon Dec 02, 2019 4:23 pm

Puppy wrote:
Mon Dec 02, 2019 2:31 pm
Wi-Fi b/g has three separate channels only, n has eight. If you can see almost 100 networks nearby, all of them have to share it.
Yes, but throughput doesn't drop proportional to the number of networks on the same channel. There is some interferences for sure, but the formula is more complicated than that. Weak networks on the same channel probably have very marginal effect, even if you can 'see' them. I tried to find some actual benchmarks that show exactly how speed is affected by a 'busy' medium, but couldn't so far.
Puppy wrote:
Mon Dec 02, 2019 2:31 pm
The "old" gigabit LAN has always full 1 Gbps speed and less than 1ms latency 24 hours a day. Anything that isn't equal or better than this is crap.
Well, you are welcome to drag your gigabit router and broadband line with you everywhere you go. Good luck.
Thinkpad 25 (20K7), X1 Carbon (20HQ), Yoga 14 (20FY), T430s (IPS FHD + Classic Keyboard), X220 4291-4BG
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Re: Lenovo CES 2020

#11 Post by Puppy » Mon Dec 02, 2019 5:31 pm

dr_st wrote:
Mon Dec 02, 2019 4:23 pm
Well, you are welcome to drag your gigabit router and broadband line with you everywhere you go. Good luck.
Typical scenario is that I have more computers connected to local network so it isn't about the broadband speed only. Every additional 10 ms of latency or frequent dropouts are noticeable and annoying on remote desktop connection experience or dropping connection speed when copying large 50+ GB files. And this is where the Wi-Fi fails miserably. The throughput isn't proportional, especially with MIMO routers, but the result is still terribly [censored] network compared to simple GigaLAN cable :) Broadband connection is ~300 Mbps and ~7ms latency so the Wi-Fi would make it worse again. I would expect new technologies to be an improvement over the old ones.

There is still opportunity for a decent docking solution (USB-C only these days), but I haven't asked for a too slim laptop that can't accomodate LAN connector without providing a better alternative.
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Re: Lenovo CES 2020

#12 Post by dr_st » Tue Dec 03, 2019 12:10 pm

Pretty sure you can get good USB-to-Gigabit adapters, and the USB-C flavors will become more widespread as the USB-A connector is phased out.
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Re: Lenovo CES 2020

#13 Post by Ibthink » Wed Dec 04, 2019 5:20 am

dr_st wrote:
Tue Dec 03, 2019 12:10 pm
Pretty sure you can get good USB-to-Gigabit adapters, and the USB-C flavors will become more widespread as the USB-A connector is phased out.
Also, all current ThinkPads still contain a Gigabit Ethernet chip and have a native Ethernet output, even if they don't have the full-size RJ45 port. So it doesn't even have to be a USB C adapter in this case. This dongle provides the native Ethernet output.
IBM ThinkPad R50e | lenovo ThinkPad X301 | lenovo ThinkPad Z61t

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