The build quality of the left side of my T43

[roanoke]

On the left side of my 2687DRU, to the left on top of my express card slot, the panel isnt secured very well to the chasis and I can kind of push it up and down. Also, above my audio and microphone plug, if I look closely, the top of it is pushed up a tiny bit, letting you see a little bit of the metal inside. I was just trying to see if anyone else has noticed anything like this on their T43, because the rest of it is practically perfect, and I want to stop looking at this stupid detail. Also, it's brand new.

[roanoke]

Anyone want to comment? You dont have to necessarily own my specific model to know what i'm talking about, I think all T43's have pci express slots.

[c333]

Not exactly sure of what your talking about, but i'll give it a try. The one door/flap covering the PCMIA/ExpressCard Slot does not reach all the way to the top (2-3mm gap). The top to this slot is not really a top at all, it is part of the plastic palm rest piece. I feel if i pressed up on this with considerable force, it would snap. Above the mic/headpone jack there are four small square vents, looking inside i can see horizontal piece of metal, probably the chassis. Other than that, it is pretty solid. BTW, i just recieved a 2687-D3U

[roanoke]

Ok, but what im asking is, does the top part that connects perpendicular to the side of the laptop sort of bulge up a bit? If I look closely the top part isn't completely pushed down. Also, regarding the PCI part, where the palmrest connects to the left end of the laptop, is that not a bit loose? And one more question, when you turn your volume up and down, do the little bars that come up at the bottom of the screen flash in and out a lot?

[Jonathan Cordery]

I have a T41p and the palmrest above the PCMIA/ExpressCard slot is also very pliable. I couldn't beleive when I first discovered it some 6 months ago. I rather naively thought that the palm rest was made from titanium as they always used to be.

[Steve007]

I have a T41p and the palmrest above the PCMIA/ExpressCard slot is also very pliable. I couldn't beleive when I first discovered it some 6 months ago. I rather naively thought that the palm rest was made from titanium as they always used to be.

Anything made of plastic will flex, creak and bend. Note the amount of plastics working their way into ThinkPad's and the ever increasing build quality issues. Basically plastics cost far IBM far less than other materials and all IBM (also Lenovo) cares about is how much they can make/save. Do the maths.....

[roanoke]

Here's some pictures, let me know if you guys think this warrants a service request (and also the volume meter thing, thats pretty weird):
http://img212.imageshack.us/img212/7664/img05441ab.jpg
http://img160.imageshack.us/img160/1442/img05451td.jpg

Notice that the palmrest above the Expresscard slot isn't fully connected to the chasis, and above the volume plug, its not all the way down. This might be a bit picky, but theres a few things that ive put up with on this thinkpad (crooked AC plug in, distorted volume meter) and this is kind of the last straw. FYI my invoice date was June 9 so my 30 day return period has already passed.

[Jonathan Cordery]

Steve007 dear chap my T41p cost me £3,300. Now you do the f&^%$£g maths!

[MSR_Steve]

Here's some pictures,

I have just about the exact same issue with my T42. I irritates me a bit because it feels like if I push down on the plastic keyboard bezel at that point on the edge of the case (right above the LAN port) the bezel does "pop" up and down a bit and clicks a little like it's not quite catching on some snap or tab that should be holding it firmly in place.

[snowdog]

Here's some pictures,

I have just about the exact same issue with my T42. I irritates me a bit because it feels like if I push down on the plastic keyboard bezel at that point on the edge of the case (right above the LAN port) the bezel does "pop" up and down a bit and clicks a little like it's not quite catching on some snap or tab that should be holding it firmly in place.

On both my T43P and T42P I see the same symptoms.

I corrected the problem by inserting small pieces of folded paper between the cracks and I also inserted a business card between the PCMCIA case and the plastic palm rest. Now it feels sturdy and no clicking noises.

Now on my T43P when it arrived the top horizontal plastic, right below the screen was very loooooose. So, again, I inserted thinly folded paper in between the top plastic and the piece of plastic that houses the "access IBM button, volum control, and power on/off button" and the flext went away.

Now if I press all areas they feel even stronger.

I also thought of inserting very thin aluminum metal in between the PCMCIA/Express card chassis and the plastic palm rest, but the business card seemed to have done the trick.

I hope this helps. I guess Quality Control is degrading @ LENOVO.

Best Regards!

[roanoke]

Well I sent it in, to fix the volume meter thing, and I also asked the fix the thing on the side, and they fixed neither! they reinstalled the bios, and put in new "basic plastics," but something is still pushing up on the plastic to the left of my keyboard. Could someone with a T43 look inside their grate above the Audio and microphone jacks and tell me if the peice of metal inside is horizontal? Because mine is definitely diagnal, and i believe that this is the problem.

[joseftu]

That piece of metal is dead flat horizontal and level on my T43p. No bulge anywhere on the left side, and only very miniscule flex if I press down. Fractions of a millimeter.

[roanoke]

Alright thanks. So I guess my next question is, if i take this in to the Local IBM place (like they said I could free of charge) do you think theyll look at me funny if i ask them to fix this? Am i being too nitpicky? Also, is this problem going to be very difficult to fix for them?

[MSR_Steve]

On both my T43P and T42P I see the same symptoms.

I corrected the problem by inserting small pieces of folded paper between the cracks and I also inserted a business card between the PCMCIA case and the plastic palm rest. Now it feels sturdy and no clicking noises.

Hmm, good idea, I'll give this a try.

Thanks!

[Thinkerer]

The one door/flap covering the PCMIA/ExpressCard Slot does not reach all the way to the top (2-3mm gap).

Ventilation - the PCMCIA slot is a major air intake for the system fan (theoretically it would be partially by an Express Card, but since no one uses that...). But also on my T43, the palmrest on top of the PCMCIA slot is a bit (but annoyingly) loose vertically.

[dr_st]

http://img212.imageshack.us/img212/7664/img05441ab.jpg

Same thing on my T42. If I stick my fingernail below the panel (right above the audio/RJ pors) and pull up, I can lift this thing up. Dunno if it's a problem, it's not really bothersome, and at this point I'm not willing to drag my laptop to service and keep it there for a day for them to try and fix it.

[rleo25]

Hello folks, that's just the reason because I am worried about construction quality and materials used. This are the top of the crop machines and it's a pity the new questionable "value" trends @ Lenovo may deliver less quality equipment. My T42 came out of factory in March/05 and it's perfectly assembled, no flex, no cracks, exept in the right side a plastic piece (some sort of a bridge) over the ultrabay unit, it's a very lenghty span to cover and in such conditions any material would flex a little shouldn't it be some sturdy metallic beam...

Well going back to the begining... if quality is an issue here, we will have to think to "migrate" to another more reliable producer... what about next apples running on windows? Is this an infamous suggestion here in the thinkpads' sanctuary? Or shall we make know our worries to Lenovo engineers? let's not permit thinkpads be downgraded in low price's sake...

[dr_st]

Hello folks, that's just the reason because I am worried about construction quality and materials used. This are the top of the crop machines and it's a pity the new questionable "value" trends @ Lenovo may deliver less quality equipment. My T42 came out of factory in March/05 and it's perfectly assembled, no flex, no cracks, exept in the right side a plastic piece (some sort of a bridge) over the ultrabay unit, it's a very lenghty span to cover and in such conditions any material would flex a little shouldn't it be some sturdy metallic beam...

Well going back to the begining... if quality is an issue here, we will have to think to "migrate" to another more reliable producer... what about next apples running on windows? Is this an infamous suggestion here in the thinkpads' sanctuary? Or shall we make know our worries to Lenovo engineers? let's not permit thinkpads be downgraded in low price's sake...

Way to make mountains out of molehills...

[jdhurst]

roanoke, I looked at the second of your two pictures (the first one would not download in any reasonable time), and the construction detail you showed is normal construction. The flap folds down, and the gap at the top is normal. ...l JD Hurst

[rleo25]

molehills as the little problems that anguish our friend... each person has it's own concerns and they deserve atention, even a thorn in your finger bothers you... there are no small problems when you're talking about quality in an industry which sells 50 million units a year...

[dr_st]

roanoke, I looked at the second of your two pictures (the first one would not download in any reasonable time), and the construction detail you showed is normal construction. The flap folds down, and the gap at the top is normal. ...l JD Hurst

The gap may be normal, but have you read what MSR_Steve wrote:

...it feels like if I push down on the plastic keyboard bezel at that point on the edge of the case (right above the LAN port) the bezel does "pop" up and down a bit and clicks a little like it's not quite catching on some snap or tab that should be holding it firmly in place.

I have the same thing and I added to it the fact that I can easily lift and twist the bezel there by pushing my fingernail underneath it and pulling. Is that also normal? Some say that they don't experience anything like it.

molehills as the little problems that anguish our friend... each person has it's own concerns and they deserve atention, even a thorn in your finger bothers you... there are no small problems when you're talking about quality in an industry which sells 50 million units a year...

Perhaps you misunderstood me. By no means do I think that these small things deserve no attention. Hell, I replied here because I experience the same things and feel they DO deserve attention. But going from that to calling Lenovo unreliable and raising doubts about quality of future Thinkpads, all because of some flex in the bezel? That's what I called "making mountains out of molehills".

It's just seems that ever since IBM Thinkpads became Lenovo Thinkpads people are searching with a magnifying glass for any signs of quality degradation and are willing to accept any small issue as a sign of "the horrors to come".

[christopher_wolf]

I would tend to agree with dr_st here; a similar thing almost happened to the T43 being scapegoatd as a "That Lenovo T" which is quite untrue. Of course, every little detail needs attention, but think about the engineering the is put into the Thinkpad to make it a Thinkpad. Having had a large portion of my family work for IBM and all of them being Engineers (I am one myself as well), I can say that is quite a bit. Engineering isn't just getting everything to perfection, it is getting it to near-perfection and taking some tradeoffs. What would you rather have? An Engineering team that pays attention to stuff like a very tiny gap near a port, which is only visible when you stare at it for long enough, or creating an excellent keboard and durable user interface which you will be using all the time you use your laptop, by definition? Thinkpads have already shown a near OCD adhesion to Quality; then again, I would rather have the team that designs the UI well instead of spending a week focusing on stuff that, in a meeting, etc, won't be noticed. Needless to say, sometimes some design teams get carried away and put all sorts of stuff into a laptop that you will never need; floppy, serial, etc. and do not pay enough attention to the actually *functionality* of the laptop. The primary goal of any Thinkpad is to *work*. Period. It is excellent that Thinkpads look stunning whilst doing their jobs, but it cannot be realistically expected that a small chassis-to-port gap ~1mm can get more attention paid to it then something that is more crucial such as the LCD or the HDAPS. This hasn't changed from the T42 to the T43, the build quality is the same, and I don't think will change for the foreseeable future. Another thing is that most people who own Thinkpads tend to modify them as well so, if you aren't happy with something, the engneers response would be "You're more than welcome to modify it yourself." A response which I think is quite sensible when it comes to the client changing the machine specs to suit their needs.

[simms]

I would tend to agree with dr_st here; a similar thing almost happened to the T43 being scapegoatd as a "That Lenovo T" which is quite untrue. Of course, every little detail needs attention, but think about the engineering the is put into the Thinkpad to make it a Thinkpad. Having had a large portion of my family work for IBM and all of them being Engineers (I am one myself as well), I can say that is quite a bit. Engineering isn't just getting everything to perfection, it is getting it to near-perfection and taking some tradeoffs. What would you rather have? An Engineering team that pays attention to stuff like a very tiny gap near a port, which is only visible when you stare at it for long enough, or creating an excellent keboard and durable user interface which you will be using all the time you use your laptop, by definition? Thinkpads have already shown a near OCD adhesion to Quality; then again, I would rather have the team that designs the UI well instead of spending a week focusing on stuff that, in a meeting, etc, won't be noticed. Needless to say, sometimes some design teams get carried away and put all sorts of stuff into a laptop that you will never need; floppy, serial, etc. and do not pay enough attention to the actually *functionality* of the laptop. The primary goal of any Thinkpad is to *work*. Period. It is excellent that Thinkpads look stunning whilst doing their jobs, but it cannot be realistically expected that a small chassis-to-port gap ~1mm can get more attention paid to it then something that is more crucial such as the LCD or the HDAPS. This hasn't changed from the T42 to the T43, the build quality is the same, and I don't think will change for the foreseeable future. Another thing is that most people who own Thinkpads tend to modify them as well so, if you aren't happy with something, the engneers response would be "You're more than welcome to modify it yourself." A response which I think is quite sensible when it comes to the client changing the machine specs to suit their needs.

Well said!

[Domain]

I would tend to agree with dr_st here; a similar thing almost happened to the T43 being scapegoatd as a "That Lenovo T" which is quite untrue. Of course, every little detail needs attention, but think about the engineering the is put into the Thinkpad to make it a Thinkpad. Having had a large portion of my family work for IBM and all of them being Engineers (I am one myself as well), I can say that is quite a bit. Engineering isn't just getting everything to perfection, it is getting it to near-perfection and taking some tradeoffs. What would you rather have? An Engineering team that pays attention to stuff like a very tiny gap near a port, which is only visible when you stare at it for long enough, or creating an excellent keboard and durable user interface which you will be using all the time you use your laptop, by definition? Thinkpads have already shown a near OCD adhesion to Quality; then again, I would rather have the team that designs the UI well instead of spending a week focusing on stuff that, in a meeting, etc, won't be noticed. Needless to say, sometimes some design teams get carried away and put all sorts of stuff into a laptop that you will never need; floppy, serial, etc. and do not pay enough attention to the actually *functionality* of the laptop. The primary goal of any Thinkpad is to *work*. Period. It is excellent that Thinkpads look stunning whilst doing their jobs, but it cannot be realistically expected that a small chassis-to-port gap ~1mm can get more attention paid to it then something that is more crucial such as the LCD or the HDAPS. This hasn't changed from the T42 to the T43, the build quality is the same, and I don't think will change for the foreseeable future. Another thing is that most people who own Thinkpads tend to modify them as well so, if you aren't happy with something, the engneers response would be "You're more than welcome to modify it yourself." A response which I think is quite sensible when it comes to the client changing the machine specs to suit their needs.

As said before, well said.

What would you rather have, more features than you can shake a stick at, that you will never use? Or a solid notebook, does everything it was designed to do?

And if you really don't like it, well, no one's making you buy a Thinkpad.

Not to say improvements can't be made, but a 1mm gap is barely an issue compared to most notebook aches and pains. That said, perhaps that gap shouldn't be there, but doesn't [censored] the notebook to an abysmal existence.

[dr_st]

Not to say improvements can't be made, but a 1mm gap is barely an issue compared to most notebook aches and pains. That said, perhaps that gap shouldn't be there, but doesn't [censored] the notebook to an abysmal existence.

Now, let's return to the gap.

Should it be there, or shouldn't it?

[jdhurst]

Not to say improvements can't be made, but a 1mm gap is barely an issue compared to most notebook aches and pains. That said, perhaps that gap shouldn't be there, but doesn't [censored] the notebook to an abysmal existence.

Now, let's return to the gap.

Should it be there, or shouldn't it?

I have a T41. I have removed the palm rest (a couple of times), the case was replaced under warranty because of a minor crack, I have taken out the CPU, Fan and such like and put it all back together. The palm rest is on tight (it hooks onto the keyboard bezel and then screws down in multiple places).

The gap has always been there. The piece of metal is the shield and structure around the PCMCIA slots. The flapper (that is a flimsy piece of engineerin) needs clearance to fold down. That is the gap.

So I would say: "Yes, it should be there"
... JD Hurst

[dr_st]

The gap has always been there. The piece of metal is the shield and structure around the PCMCIA slots. The flapper (that is a flimsy piece of engineerin) needs clearance to fold down. That is the gap.

So I would say: "Yes, it should be there"
... JD Hurst

And can you lift the bezel through the gap?

[jdhurst]

And can you lift the bezel through the gap?

I'm not sure I know what you mean, but I think the answer is no. JDH

[dr_st]

And can you lift the bezel through the gap?

I'm not sure I know what you mean, but I think the answer is no. JDH

Stick your fingernail (or a knife, if your fingernails are short) in the gap (above the LAN port) and pull up. What happens?

If nothing happens (or if you even cannot widen the gap enough to stick something is there, then there is definitely something wrong in the construction of the people who do experience it (like me and others here).

[jdhurst]

There is no gap above the LAN port on my machine. The keyboard bezel fits tight to that. The 1mm gap I saw in the photo here is above the PCMCIA slots and I have the same 1mm gap. But the palm rest is tight to the metal shield. The gap exists between the metal shield and the top of the PCMCIA flap cover.

To say all this another way - If I look at the keyboard bezel and palm rest, they are tight to the side of the case. ... JDH