Upgrading T30 to T43 (maybe T43p)... Heat Concerns (PICS)

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Rhino · #1 Post by **Rhino** » Thu Jul 21, 2005 7:54 pm

Preface: Be careful when reading this post fast, I mention T43 & T43p which are different. I see in many other posts that people (prob) read so fast they confuse the 2 and make inaccurate replies.

I am the current owner of a T30 2.20GHz ThinkPad.
I just placed an order this morning for a T43 model# 266875U ThinkPad.

My T43 was ordered with 1GB & Slim bay battery.

My T30 2.20GHz cannot be used as a laptop because of heat. The heat is so bad it will turn a cool room into an uncomfortably warm one. It has burnt off the paint from the bottom of the laptop. The stickers (serial,model,etc) on the bottom have been scorched with heat and are warped to where you cannot read them. At the office, we call it the Toaster with and LCD. We have fun sometimes putting things next to the fan on the left side and watching how fast they melt. If you place a bag of say M&Ms near that side, it will not take longer than 5 minutes to turn that bag into a puddle of chocolate. The bottom and the air coming out of the fan will physically burn your human skin if you try to touch for anything more than 15 seconds. My T30 gets so hot you can't use it on your lap by itself. If you try, it will sear your clothing (depending on clothing) or put your lower body into hyper-sweat mode. Instead, I purchased a Targus cooling plate that sits under the laptop. It has 2 fans and runs off USB port for power. This helps, but by no means makes it completely tolerable... On the flip side, the T30 performs like a tank and has never once crashed or given any issues. It is rock solid. One of these days I plan to get an actual temp reading. I think I might be able to use a baking temp gauge or something to get an idea as to the temp. I have tried everything from under clocking to dissecting and inspecting the T30 to see if I could change the problem with heat. No luck. Overall I'm a little disgusted that I have to live with this type of problem on a laptop like this but I guess that is what I get for #1 buying a Refurbished model (did so to get the high perf 2.20GHz) and #2 not researching enough.

After a considerable amount of research I have decided to replace my laptop with a T43 model# 266875U. I really wanted the T43p, however after a couple of you and some others posted about possible heat issues on the T43p, I ran like a little girl. I picked the T43 based on wanting good performance but low heat. For me, its all about low heat. I want to take this T43 and under clock the CPU+GPU+etc to the point where I can use it for long hours on my lap and not have to worry about heat.. My only question is, on the T43p, can you under clock it enough (CHC) to stay cool? If so, I may change my order from a T43 to a T43p.

Does anyone with a T43 model# 266875U have any recommendations for keeping the unit cool? Are there any voltage/other settings you recommend for low heat and maybe even low noise too? -I know, I probably shouldn't get greedy but if I can have both I'm on cloud 9.

I'll post some more info and follow up to this thread as best I can. I hope others can use info that comes out of this too.

nirvana0001 · #2 Post by **nirvana0001** » Thu Jul 21, 2005 9:09 pm

my t43p is cool with CHC. the right palm rest has a little bit warm if your HDD keep transfer data such as download couple hunderd MB movie from internet by 200KB/sec. Anther part just stay cool.

Rhino · #3 Post by **Rhino** » Fri Jul 22, 2005 4:53 am

So for the most part is stays cool?

I do heavy web browsing and use programs like Quickbooks, MS money, SecureCRT, programming compilers, and like to ocassionally listen to MP3s while I work... Remote desktop quite a bit. Part time use of Macromedia & Adobe suites.

I am typing this on my T30 right now with the cooling plate in place and it feels as if I have a toaster oven on my lap.

I am going to run some temp tests soon and post them. I just want to find out how over the top bad this laptop is.

Also, why would IBM allow you to choose a 2.20 T30 that had this type of heat issue? I talked to another owner of a 2.20 and they have the same experience.

Rhino · #4 Post by **Rhino** » Fri Jul 22, 2005 5:08 am

I'm reading some information about the T43p and it seems there *may* be hope with the heat issues if you can underclock it enough. Any advice on this one is much appreciated

)

With that being said, and if the T43p can run "cool". Theoretically, could I change my order from the T43 to a T43p? It was placed about 24 hours ago.

alpuzz · #5 Post by **alpuzz** » Fri Jul 22, 2005 3:19 pm

Hello,

I can't speak as to the T43p, but I'm extremely happy with my 75U in terms of heat and fan noise. In fact, I'm so pleased that I haven't even messed with undervolting it as of yet. if I decide to do so, it will be primarily to gain extra battery life. Any lessening of heat will be a bonus, and I can't imagine the fan being any quieter unless it stops altogether.

Just as an experiment, I ran the Prime95 torture test, the one that's supposed to generate maximum heat for about an hour. At max performance, my CPu temp never went above 73°C . At that temperature, the bottom of the machine got warm but never uncomfortably so, and nowhere near what I would call hot.

If you're really concerned about heat, I think I would stick with the 75U. Unless you're doing work that will really benefit from the better GPU on the T43p, the performance difference will most likely be minimal, especially if you take some of the money you save by going with the 75U and put it toward one of those new 7k100s and another 512 megs of ram.

I don't know if all 75Us are created equal but as of yet, I haven't run into anyone on this forum who owns one and is unhappy with it.

Just my opinion for what it's worth,

--Al

bhtooefr · #6 Post by **bhtooefr** » Fri Jul 22, 2005 3:57 pm

FWIW, if you want to find out the temps on your T30, go get either MobileMeter or Centrino Hardware Control.

Rhino · #7 Post by **Rhino** » Fri Jul 22, 2005 6:27 pm

bhtooefr wrote:FWIW, if you want to find out the temps on your T30, go get either MobileMeter or Centrino Hardware Control.

I downloaded CHC, however, it will not load on my T30. It gives me memory read errors and shuts down. I could have sworn this computer used a Intel Centrino CPU, but I am having second thoughts because there is no system settings that I can find labeled Centrino. The CPU is labeled as: "Mobile Intel(R) Pentium(R) 4 - M CPU 2.20GHz"

Forgive me, I am not super firmiliar with these cpu's, chipsets, etc. WIth that being said, is this some type of weird model built to achieve the high clock speeds for marketing/sales/clout? It wouldn't suprise me. The temps are so outrageous I can't see people owning them and not filling law suits or major complaints. I personally don't see many people running around with T30 2.20GHz's but maybe more here have them? I have only known of one other individual, and he in fact has the heat and fire hazard issues I do.

#8 Post by **GomJabbar** » Fri Jul 22, 2005 6:41 pm

Rhino wrote:I could have sworn this computer used a Intel Centrino CPU, but I am having second thoughts because there is no system settings that I can find labeled Centrino. The CPU is labeled as: "Mobile Intel(R) Pentium(R) 4 - M CPU 2.20GHz"

You do not have a Centrino-type processor. It can be confusing because Intel named their processors so simularly. See following link for clarification:

http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,1895,924315,00.asp

Rhino · #9 Post by **Rhino** » Fri Jul 22, 2005 6:47 pm

You do not have a Centrino-type processor. It can be confusing because Intel named their processors so simularly. See following link for clarification:

Thanks for clearing that up. I am going to run MobileMeter right now. I will be back shortly with screenshot

)

Rhino · #10 Post by **Rhino** » Fri Jul 22, 2005 6:53 pm

MobileMeter works very easily.

Screenshot of T30 2.20GHz running a couple IE windows:

bhtooefr · #11 Post by **bhtooefr** » Fri Jul 22, 2005 7:04 pm

That is pretty bad...

I mean, my Dell with a 2.2GHz DESKTOP P4 (yours has a 2.2GHz mobile P4) only went up to 65C, and that was with all three vents choked, and a CPU burn app (basically, a program designed to get the CPU as hot as possible) running!

Granted, this X21 has been as high as 96C in the UltraBase. Outside of the UltraBase, I've seen it as high as 87C, and it usually hovers around 85C. I usually downclock the processor using the SpeedStep applet, though, and it then runs at 58 to 63C.

FWIW, I'll second the thing on CHC working on non-Centrino laptops. I've got an old P3 here (definitely NOT a Centrino), and it works.

Edit: You may want to try this, and set your CPU to the Battery Optimized or Dynamic Switching setting. Battery Optimized will get it running a WHOLE lot cooler, and Dynamic Switching will get it running so that when you're not doing much, it'll run at the same speed (and temperature) as it would under Battery Optimized, but when you need the power, it'll give it to you automatically. My P3 doesn't have that, so I stick with Battery Optimized. Besides, I'm always running my CPU at 100% (I fold), so Dynamic Switching would be useles.

Rhino · #12 Post by **Rhino** » Fri Jul 22, 2005 7:26 pm

Thanks bhtooefr

)

I am going to try to match my setting to what you suggested. BUT keep in mind I have (IMO) tried everything.

That screen shot came from my T30 as underclocked as possible and *only* running some IE windows. Can you even imagine what happens when its normal and running under moderate or do I dare suggest heavy load? I think you could literally cook food on the bottom of the case.

bhtooefr · #13 Post by **bhtooefr** » Fri Jul 22, 2005 7:31 pm

I can see when you dropped to 1.2GHz there, but that wasn't for long, and it jumped back up to 2.2GHz before it could really cool off.

Do the Battery Optimized setting. Max Battery won't do you much extra good, unless your battery is running out (which, if you're on AC power, it won't be).

Edit: Any setting in which you drop the speed will take it to 1.2GHz, FWIW. It'll also lower the voltage.

It's a shame that CHC won't run, because if it would, you may have been able to tweak the voltage on your chip, and run at an intermediate speed. A P4 at 1.2GHz is VERY slow.

Rhino · #14 Post by **Rhino** » Fri Jul 22, 2005 7:36 pm

My battery typically lasts about 20 minutes. I've tried so many different settings and eventually gave up. I can't seem to get more than 20-30 min while only running low cpu programs. If I am doing some major work on it, it will take about 10 min to suck it dry.

bhtooefr · #15 Post by **bhtooefr** » Fri Jul 22, 2005 7:56 pm

WOW...

Check the battery info in MobMeter or the Battery MaxiMiser. It'll tell you the wear level (or at least the design capacity and the full charge capacity. A 0% wear level would mean that the full charge capacity equals the design capacity, and a 100% wear level would mean that the full charge capacity equals ZERO.)

That doesn't seem right at all if the battery's good, which is why I'm having you check that...

Has it always been that bad?

Maybe Max Battery WOULD help you if you went on battery...

Jmmmmm · #16 Post by **Jmmmmm** » Sat Jul 23, 2005 2:16 am

78 C ????
Whoa.

On my pentium 4-m (same as yours) at 3.06ghz,, my temps are generally ~50 C degrees, and gets up into the low 60's when I'm pushing it really hard, burning a cd, etc.

Last week, my computer starting running really hot (as in mid 60s with nothing open), and Speedswitch said my processor was running at 100%, for no reason. It was either due to spyware or a virus, though, because a clean sweep fixed the problem. A few days later, Norton did find a virus, but I don't know if it was related.

But 78 degrees, that doesn't sound like a heat dissipation problem, in my opinion, it sounds like something software-wise is going on.

Either way, any computer will probably be cooler.

Rhino · #17 Post by **Rhino** » Sat Jul 23, 2005 7:21 am

I installed "SpeedswitchXP" successfully and then went through the ideas you had. The MobileMonitor shows that the CPU is running lower, however temps are still scorching hot.

Since this computer was shipped it has always drained the battery that fast. I can't seem to et a full 30 min out of it for the life of me. This T30 is like the most efficient way of turning power into extreme BTU's.

The reason the CPU/TEMP/VOLT dropped in my screenshot is because the laptop was in suspend mode for a min. As soon as it came back online it was heating my home again.

With all of that said, I have some concerns...

I ordered that T43 the other day on the IBM website. I picked it because I want something to run cool. Money is not an option on this (business) laptop so I would like to get the best one out there (T43p?). The only reason I didn't was because I read some of the users here had heat problems. I'm wondering if I can get a T43p to really run cool. If I could, I think I will change my order. Is the T43p the best T-series laptop IBM has for sale? -

And yet another question. Can I change my order without any problems? The status shows "In Process" when I go to the IBM order tracking page.

I went to the IBM website today and they had removed all T43p's from the site. I was able to see them when I clicked "View all models" previously. Now they are gone. Hrm...

Sorry for all the questions and thanks for all the answers

)

Wholesomer · #18 Post by **Wholesomer** » Sat Jul 23, 2005 8:20 am

I don't have the T43p; therefore, I can't answer that but my T43 2668-75U is running cool.

BTW, how many T43p do you want?

They are in the link below

http://www-131.ibm.com/webapp/wcs/store ... Id=2049168

nrj45 · #19 Post by **nrj45** » Sat Jul 23, 2005 9:21 am

Hi,
I own a t43p (see sig.). I undervolted it with chc (idle 800MHz@700mVcore). I didn't underclocked the gpu with chc (because it only changes the frequency and not the vCore). So I let Powerplay do the job.
In a 25°C room, my cpu will stay at about 45°C (while the fan is blowing in a middle-low speed, i mean the speed it will keep until the 65°C limit).
I think my t43p as no heat problems but a fan tuning problem. I read a lot of threads on this forum (it seems that the fan is triggered by some temperature sensor in the case, making the fan blowing quite a cold air flow). Some improvements in the future bios would be great (especially fan and hdd compatibility).

Note : just for fun : while underclocked, backlight set to lowest, mobmeter shows 13Watts on my t43p. This power is dispatched between the hdd, cpu, gpu, ram, backlight, wifi card,... in this conditions I'm sure that passive cooling should be enough (but the fan will keep the same speed until the 65°C limit). I reached only once this limit while gaming, with graphics o/c to 480MHz/300MHz instead of 400/250, cpu to 1866MHz@1.308Vcore (not undervolted).

nirvana0001 · #20 Post by **nirvana0001** » Sat Jul 23, 2005 3:18 pm

nrj45 wrote:I reached only once this limit while gaming, with graphics o/c to 480MHz/300MHz instead of 400/250, cpu to 1866MHz@1.308Vcore (not undervolted).

nrj45, have you over-clock you GPU? becuase your sig. shown it got 3700 in 3dmark03. normally v3200 will only get approximately 3100 score in 3dmark with default setting.
I made mine overclock @ 520/320 and it got 4155 score.

Rhino · #21 Post by **Rhino** » Sat Jul 23, 2005 5:57 pm

In a 25°C room, my cpu will stay at about 45°C (while the fan is blowing in a middle-low speed, i mean the speed it will keep until the 65°C limit). I think my t43p has no heat problems but a fan tuning problem.

When using it on your lap for lengthy periods of time, do you feel significant heat coming off of the bottom of the case or under your wrists?

Rhino · #22 Post by **Rhino** » Sat Jul 23, 2005 11:50 pm

Does anyone use a T43p for any length of time and experience heat problems?

I noticed after I ordered the T43, my account was charged. Now (3 days later), they put the money back. Anyone have an idea what this is about?

motodude · #23 Post by **motodude** » Sun Jul 24, 2005 12:34 am

I wonder if maybe you have a battery problem? Ten minutes is a pretty short time period to run a battery down, the amp draw must be astronomical!

nrj45 · #24 Post by **nrj45** » Sun Jul 24, 2005 3:06 am

nirvana0001 wrote:
nrj45 wrote:I reached only once this limit while gaming, with graphics o/c to 480MHz/300MHz instead of 400/250, cpu to 1866MHz@1.308Vcore (not undervolted).
nrj45, have you over-clock you GPU? becuase your sig. shown it got 3700 in 3dmark03. normally v3200 will only get approximately 3100 score in 3dmark with default setting.
I made mine overclock @ 520/320 and it got 4155 score.

Yep, I got this result with the mentionned frequency : 480MHz/300MHz instead of 400/250. Are you playing stable with your settings ? I will try it

nrj45 · #25 Post by **nrj45** » Sun Jul 24, 2005 3:10 am

Rhino wrote:
In a 25°C room, my cpu will stay at about 45°C (while the fan is blowing in a middle-low speed, i mean the speed it will keep until the 65°C limit). I think my t43p has no heat problems but a fan tuning problem.
When using it on your lap for lengthy periods of time, do you feel significant heat coming off of the bottom of the case or under your wrists?

It is hard to give an accurate answer since it's not easy to describe a situation that would be experienced differently by each person... I would say it is not hot but keeps your knees warm (a bit more than with a cover)

Rhino · #26 Post by **Rhino** » Mon Jul 25, 2005 9:20 am

Based on everything I have been reading in the last couple days, I changed my order from the T43 to the T43p!

The model I ordered was: 2668H3U

Now, while I was on the phone with the reps (very nice btw), they told me that:

The 15" does NOT drain the battery much more than the 14.1"
The 15" case is NOT different than the 14.1"

There is a difference, as you can see on the site. Oh well, I hope the 15" works out well for me. With a 15" do you get more "case" where your wrists go?-Or do you have the same wrist space on both laptops?

Thanks for everything

)

JHEM · #27 Post by **JHEM** » Mon Jul 25, 2005 10:42 am

Rhino wrote:Now, while I was on the phone with the reps (very nice btw), they told me that:

The 15" does NOT drain the battery much more than the 14.1"
The 15" case is NOT different than the 14.1"

They told you WRONG! The 15" display does use slightly more power than the 14.1" display. The 15" UXGA Flexview display uses even more.

Dimensions:

14.1" models (WxDxH): 12.2" x 10.0" x 1.0-1.2"; 311mm x 255mm x 26.6-31.4mm
15.0" models (WxDxH): 13.0" x 10.6" x 1.2-1.4"; 329mm x 268mm x 31-36mm

Weight: with optical drive and battery: 14.1" models: up to 5.5 lb (2.5kg); 15": up to 6.3 lb (2.9 kg)

Regards,

James

nirvana0001 · #28 Post by **nirvana0001** » Mon Jul 25, 2005 7:25 pm

Here is a bad news. I did installed Need fo speed: underground 2 last night. When i play it, the temperature reached 90C, the setting was mid-high, not the highest. And the power mode set at "Thinkpad default"
The air is "extremely hot" blowing from the fan. whole tp just like gonna burn

ps. the system was running with CHC (under voltage) and GPU hasn't over clock.

Rhino · #29 Post by **Rhino** » Tue Jul 26, 2005 12:20 am

I give up. When it comes I will try to post my findings as best I can and follow up like this thread. We'll see. If it's another oven and can't be cooled with settings it will find its way out the front door fast..

Upgrading T30 to T43 (maybe T43p)... Heat Concerns (PICS)

Upgrading T30 to T43 (maybe T43p)... Heat Concerns (PICS)

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