ibm won't repair my computer claiming it's 'spill damage'

Message

msafi · #1 Post by **msafi** » Fri Jul 22, 2005 4:24 pm

it's true. i have spilled a little bit of water on my keyboard a year ago. the keyboard was damaged. i purchased a new keyboard to replace it. everything since then has been working just fine. it's been almost a year. then i got that common usb problem. it downgraded to 1.1 speeds. so i sent it for repair, but they called me and said that they have to replace the system board, keyboard, and combo-drive for $900 due to spill damage. both the combo and the keyboard are working fine, so i explained to them that i replaced the keyboard myself, and asked them what if they just try to replace the system board. the rep said, we can't do that and even if we did it, it would still be $800. no big difference.

i have a feeling that ibm are only using the little bit of wetness they discovered as an excuse not to repair my laptop. i mean the usb problem is common in many t model laptops, not only my slightly wet laptop. (i didn't tell that to the rep. i didn't wanna argue)

the rep. told me to take my laptop to an authorized repair center in my area and see if they would repair it for less.

i'm kinda disappointed at ibm. i'm afraid that every time i send my laptop for repair now they will use the same excuse.

what do you all think?

c333 · #2 Post by **c333** » Fri Jul 22, 2005 4:44 pm

First, how did they know it was spill damage? Did you tell them when you purchased a new keyboard, or did they find out when they took it apart and found some sort of evidence? Personally, i wouldn't tell them it was spill damage because of just this sort of occasion, where they can use it against you.

msafi · #3 Post by **msafi** » Fri Jul 22, 2005 5:00 pm

the spill leaves some kind of a mark. they opened it up and found that something was spilled on it (albeit a year ago) i didn't tell them anything.

i got a feeling that they did NOT investigate whether this spill actually caused the USB to downgrade to 1.1. they just thought that since there is a spill (damage) we are gonna replace this, this and this. and charge you $900.

c333 · #4 Post by **c333** » Fri Jul 22, 2005 6:01 pm

Thats unfortunate, unless you can clean up the evidence, i doubt you'll get anywhere. I'm not sure how the repair depots work, are parts replaced free under warranty? I'm sure their instructed to waive the warranty if there is any sign of abuse or user damage. Anyway, I would get a USB2.0 PC Card and save the hassle and cost.

asiafish · #5 Post by **asiafish** » Fri Jul 22, 2005 6:13 pm

I would call them and demand to speak to someone in customer relations. Once there, explain that the spill did not cause the problem and is unrelated.

When they still deny coverage under waranty, head to your local courthouse and file in small claims court for breach of warranty. Of course, you will have to convince the judge that the spill is unrelated, but usually the big, bad company does poorly at small claims.

It is cheap (usually under $50 to file) and neither side will have an attorney, though conveniently the "representative" Lenovo sends will likely be an attorney 'in a non-attorney role'.

msafi · #6 Post by **msafi** » Fri Jul 22, 2005 6:31 pm

i asked ibm rep if the warranty was void now. he said no.

i'll try to take it to an authorized repair shop and see if they can fix it under the warranty before i go with the pc card solution. i will try to sense whether they can actually prove that the cause of the problem is the spill damage.

in case they couldn't, maybe i'll follow what asiafish said.

runixd · #7 Post by **runixd** » Fri Jul 22, 2005 7:05 pm

Interesting, Exactly the same story happened to me a week ago. Laptop just locked up and refused to turn on later. I sent it for repair and got a call that damage is due to spill. I do remember I did spill something on it about 7-8 months ago, but that obviously wasn't the reason of break. I had my warranty void.

REASON FOR QUOTATION
OUT OF WARRANTY
N/A
WARRANTY VOID
SYSTEMBOARD, BATTERY AND PALMREST ALL DAMAGED DUE TO SPILLAGE AND WOULD ALL HAVE TO BE REPLACED
COURIER REQUEST
N/A

TIER LEVEL

COST (GBP)
5
985.00
PROBLEM DETERMINATION
(IF QUOTE REFUSED) 60.00
COLLECT COURIER N/A
RETURN COURIER N/A
TOTAL (ex VAT) 985.00

Needless to say this over the actual price of that laptop working. I wasn't TOOOO upset, since there were other problems with it and I needed a replacement. And typing from a 2668-H8U I recieved today, ordered from Bill.

msafi · #8 Post by **msafi** » Fri Jul 22, 2005 7:17 pm

i don't know where you got this quote, but i just went to ibm website and checked my laptop's warranty status and it said that it's still in-warranty through the end of next year.

runixd · #9 Post by **runixd** » Fri Jul 22, 2005 7:50 pm

its void warranty since they think the spillage was why it broke. I had just under a year warranty myself.

anthony · #10 Post by **anthony** » Fri Jul 22, 2005 11:33 pm

I'm really disappointed to hear about this problem. The spill resistant keyboard was one of the main reasons I went with IBM over Dell. Am I to undestand that is all hype?

DavidNZ · #11 Post by **DavidNZ** » Fri Jul 22, 2005 11:58 pm

asiafish wrote:When they still deny coverage under waranty, head to your local courthouse and file in small claims court for breach of warranty. Of course, you will have to convince the judge that the spill is unrelated, but usually the big, bad company does poorly at small claims.

Interesting, but not sure how anyone can prove that a particular fault is unrelated to the spill. Quite often, it's not the water that has done the damage, but the minerals within the water. Over time, this can cause corrosion.

What worries me about this thread is that I spilled water in my X40 in Glasgow (the nice hard, Scottish variety!) last August.

All I can say is 'uh oh'...

#12 Post by **BillMorrow** » Sat Jul 23, 2005 1:14 am

too many times i have seen depot repair techs find something unusual and claim "user abuse", hang a high price tag on repairs, and wait for a GO or NO-GO from the hapless customer..
while they go through the motions, i have rarely seen a reversal of the "user abuse" tag and once applied is impossible to remove..

on the other hand, ibm (and now lenovo) do get machines back that ARE user abused and thus those who abused the generous warranty policies of the past are the architects of the suspicious (guilty until proven innocent) current climate..

so, if it IS true that water was spilt or looks like it was spilt, your are SOL..
sorry, but thats the way it is..

neoflight · #13 Post by **neoflight** » Sun Jul 24, 2005 5:25 pm

"have to replace the system board, keyboard, and combo-drive for $900 due to spill damage."

did u ever have a chance to verify where if you buy these devises separately and get it replaced urself, might make it much cheaper?

if u have the product specification posted then come hardware techies here might help you find the sources and costs and i thin the manual may be helpful with the replacement procedure.

neo

msafi · #14 Post by **msafi** » Sun Jul 24, 2005 6:38 pm

replace them myself? sure i can replace the keyboard and combo drive, but the systemboard? isn't that like the WHOLE thing? i really don't think so. even if i knew how, the keyboard and combo are working fine. only the system board needs to be changed to fix that USB problem (i think).

wwarlock · #15 Post by **wwarlock** » Sun Jul 24, 2005 9:28 pm

anthony
PostPosted: Fri Jul 22, 2005 8:33 pm Post subject:
I'm really disappointed to hear about this problem. The spill resistant keyboard was one of the main reasons I went with IBM over Dell. Am I to undestand that is all hype?

I would like to know this one as well. I did not buy my TP just because of the keyboard but it was a deciding factor. So is the keyboard really spill resistant and can handel like up to 8oz of water or somthing like that or is this hype?[/quote]

msafi · #16 Post by **msafi** » Sun Jul 24, 2005 9:42 pm

8 oz? hahaha, isn't that a lot? no it couldn't handle this much. i just spilled an amount slightly larger than i could say few drops, and it still failed.

if you really care about this feature, get a panasonic toughbook. it's designed for outdoors. the kind that the police uses. it's bulky but it got a handle like a suitcase.

ZPrime · #17 Post by **ZPrime** » Sun Jul 24, 2005 9:45 pm

spillage is why thinkpad protection exists.

msafi · #18 Post by **msafi** » Sun Jul 24, 2005 9:59 pm

ZPrime wrote:spillage is why thinkpad protection exists.

exactly, i forgot about that. now you don't need a toughbook. just get the thinkpad protection and abuse your love all you want.

pphilipko · #19 Post by **pphilipko** » Sun Jul 24, 2005 10:01 pm

msafi wrote:
ZPrime wrote:spillage is why thinkpad protection exists.
exactly, i forgot about that. now you don't need a toughbook. just get the thinkpad protection and abuse your love all you want.

But remember, time is money.

#20 Post by **BillMorrow** » Sun Jul 24, 2005 11:52 pm

time IS, indeed, money..

and here is where i suggest on site AND thinkpad protection..

and, FWIW, i think a real tech will not be so picky if he is in your office or home, repairing your thinkpad, and sees a tiny sign of user abuse..
now, this is not applicable to those with TPP but only those with on site..

nor do i suggest that you can flood your thinkpad with a milkshake and expect the tech NOT to officially notice..

verktyg · #21 Post by **verktyg** » Mon Jul 25, 2005 1:25 am

When I was traveling a lot (80 flights 08-2003 to 08-2004), I used to cringe when the flight attendents would reach across several other passingers working on their laptops to hand me a cup of water or worse yet orange juice.

I wasn't so worried about the attendent as I was about me spilling a drink on some hapless person's laptop.

snife · #22 Post by **snife** » Mon Jul 25, 2005 3:44 am

I think it would be difficult to tell a year later that there had been spill damage if it was only water. The water would have dried out in that time so unless something was blown on the board at the time it happened then I cannot see how a tech could determine this with any certainty.

bhtooefr · #23 Post by **bhtooefr** » Mon Jul 25, 2005 3:49 am

It could have temporarily shorted something out, leaving a scorch mark on the PCB or something...

#24 Post by **GomJabbar** » Mon Jul 25, 2005 6:14 am

verktyg wrote:When I was traveling a lot (80 flights 08-2003 to 08-2004), I used to cringe when the flight attendents would reach across several other passingers working on their laptops to hand me a cup of water or worse yet orange juice.

I wasn't so worried about the attendent as I was about me spilling a drink on some hapless person's laptop.

I fly about once-a-month in relation to my work. I bring my T42 with me on the flight, but it stays in my aluminum-sided briefcase. I can live without it during the flight, but I would sorely miss it, if it was damaged while I was out of town.

Once when returning home, I overpacked my briefcase with my 600E in it. When I got home, I found the LCD cracked and unusable. I had just ordered my T42, and I was so glad that I learned my lesson with the 600E. I did buy a used screen (complete) from e-bay and repaired the 600E.

verktyg · #25 Post by **verktyg** » Mon Jul 25, 2005 10:34 am

snife wrote:I think it would be difficult to tell a year later that there had been spill damage if it was only water. The water would have dried out in that time so unless something was blown on the board at the time it happened then I cannot see how a tech could determine this with any certainty.

Water is a mild acid and will stain the sheet metal aluminum parts under the keyboard, especially if it sits in contact for a while before it evaporates. It will leave a white precipitate of aluminum oxide and a grey black stain.

It would take a lot of water or some other acidic liquid to cause electrical damage.

I would assume that the IBM techs look for any sign of corrosion when they open a Thinkpad as it will void the warrantee.

As in the UCMJ (Universal Code of Marsupial Justice) "Penetration however slight is sufficient to complete the offense"!

beerak · #26 Post by **beerak** » Mon Jul 25, 2005 3:31 pm

verktyg wrote:Water is a mild acid and will stain the sheet metal aluminum parts under the keyboard, especially if it sits in contact for a while before it evaporates. It will leave a white precipitate of aluminum oxide and a grey black stain.

It would take a lot of water or some other acidic liquid to cause electrical damage.

I would assume that the IBM techs look for any sign of corrosion when they open a Thinkpad as it will void the warrantee.

As in the UCMJ (Universal Code of Marsupial Justice) "Penetration however slight is sufficient to complete the offense"!

Exactly, what they saw was green oxidation with white borders or corrosion marks near bonds.

What you can do after you spill some liquid is - open your NB and dry it immediately as much as you can. Then use distillation water on the clean microfiber cloth and clear a really splashy parts to avoid immediate oxidation.

Do not turn on machine until all is dry. Then send your machine for repair asap - so the effect of the water will not display.

If your machine is working, open it a couple of months every week and remove any mark of beginning oxidation using distillation water on a clean microfiber cloth again, it is a silent killer at least warranty killer.

I thought IBM have protected keyboard, but ... it is not true, just see on it there are holes so you can see the board ... it was one of the reason I bought IBM, disappointing

edited: Thanks c333 and verktyg for corrections

verktyg · #27 Post by **verktyg** » Tue Jul 26, 2005 4:28 pm

Frazzle doesn't have the same meaning in US English. We would probably call it a Q-Tip or cotton swab.

c333 · #28 Post by **c333** » Tue Jul 26, 2005 5:17 pm

Thanks verktyg, i was just about to say, "WTF is a frazzle" Anyway, i think a Q-Tip is NOT a good idea, a clean microfiber cloth would probably work much better. When Q-tips get wet they teny to shed, and the last thing you need is tiny strands of cotton stuck in the mobo components.

plucky duck · #29 Post by **plucky duck** » Tue Jul 26, 2005 9:41 pm

Didn't somebody advertise a T42p systemboard on the FS/FT forum? Time for an upgrade maybe?

mercuxio · #30 Post by **mercuxio** » Fri Aug 05, 2005 11:19 pm

I can get a T42 128MB FireGL board for you for about US$400 inclusive of shipping charges.

ibm won't repair my computer claiming it's 'spill damage'

ibm won't repair my computer claiming it's 'spill damage'

Who is online