X41 vs. X32?

[beq]

What "other-brand ultraportable" 12" model with built-in optical drive is built to the same level of quality as an X series Thinkpad??

Please let me know, because I want one if it exists.

For me, it's just that with today's competition, using an X32 would make me sad that it doesn't have a built-in optical drive for its size and weight (compared to other-brand ultraportables with built-in optical)...

In the past I recall having looked at the Fujitsu LifeBook ultraportables (and a few others), but I don't remember if there were any with 12.1" screen. They also have some models with PDA-style touchscreen displays, and also the more traditional Tablet PC models with digitizer screen. I have a bad memory so might have to look up the specs more carefully... But my point was that the X32's 3.6 lbs weight (without any optical drive) almost seems too heavy for its class?

LifeBook S7000: 14.1" screen, 4.3 lbs with optical drive
LifeBook S6000/S2000: 13.3" screen, 4 lbs with optical drive
LifeBook P7000: 10.6" widescreen, 3.3 lbs with optical drive


I'd also looked at ultracheap ultraportables recently, and reviews say the Averatec models have great specs for the price. Plus they look like Apple PowerBooks Anyone ever used one?

4100 series: 13.3" widescreen, 4.2 lbs with optical drive
3700 series: 12.1" screen, 4.2 lbs with optical drive
1000 series: 10.6" widescreen, 3.6 lbs with optical drive


A glance at Dynamism also showed Panasonic and Sony Japanese models with with built-in optical, but I'm not familiar with them...

Panasonic Y4: 14.1" screen, 3.37 lbs with optical drive
Panasonic W4: 12.1" screen, 2.64 lbs with optical drive
Sony Vaio TX90: 11.1" widescreen, 2.75 lbs with optical drive

(They also list other superlight ultraportables without optical drive such as the Panasonic R4 and T4, and the Samsung Q30 which IIRC is the original of the Dell X200?)

Edit: Actually now that I looked it up, the Panasonic sounds interesting for the specs/weight, and Dynamism said these models are built to withstand especially rough shocks and treatments. Anyone familiar with them?

[aamsel]

My question was "What "other-brand ultraportable" 12" model with built-in optical drive is built to the same level of quality as an X series Thinkpad??".

Having looked at many, many, many notebooks and having read countless reviews and opinions on them, I think that the answer may be "NONE".

I have seen many Fujitsu's and they are NOT Thinkpad quality. They are much more flimsy. So are the Averatecs. Of course, to get optical in a notebook that light, flimsiness may be a given.

There may be no ultraportable (other than Apple) built to the same level of quality as an X series Thinkpad. I have no desire to own Apple, but I didn't particularly like the screen on the 12" Powerbook. Also, the text didn't look very good on it, which is, somewhat an "Apple thing" since they don't have TrueType. Don't know.

As for the Panasonics, the "knock" on them has been that the displays are quite dim. If you do consider one, try laptopsinc.com. dynamism.com sells US and the non-US models (Japanese) for higher prices. Dynamism gets great reviews from publications (they are advertisers after all), but there prices are very high.

Has anyone heard anything about the Sharp M4000 Widenote? It is supposed to have a 300 cd/m2 brightness screen! (although I am quite sure it is a glossy display, which would kill it for me. CAN'T TAKE THE GLARE!!)

Andrew
Austin, TX

[LumberJack]

Agreed. Simply put the X31 / X32 is the most superior ultraportable I have used and love it. I can smoke a powerbook. Any other taiwanese plastic junk doesn't come close to build quality and keyboard and stuff. They may have a higher resolution, and or optical drive but not enough flash to take me away from my TP.

Plus an ultraportable should stay true. Small light and durable to be moved around lots. There are so many ways to connect to stuff why do you need an optical drive? and if by chance you do... then connect to any of the other tons of computers with one in the area...

2c...

LJ

[aamsel]

And the X40/41 would be superior in almost every regard to the X31/32, with the exception of hard drive speed. Thinner, lighter, newer video card in the X41 (although integrated, much more up to date than the 16MB Mobility Radeon). Some say the keyboard is better on the X31/32. Also, there is the argument that once you put a "useable" battery (8 cell) on the X40/41, you are at almost the X31/32 weight.

But the X40/41 is smaller and thinner, period.

Darn it! So many notebooks, so little time!! (I think that was supposed to be "women"!!)

Andrew
Austin, TX

Agreed. Simply put the X31 / X32 is the most superior ultraportable I have used and love it. I can smoke a powerbook. Any other taiwanese plastic junk doesn't come close to build quality and keyboard and stuff. They may have a higher resolution, and or optical drive but not enough flash to take me away from my TP.

Plus an ultraportable should stay true. Small light and durable to be moved around lots. There are so many ways to connect to stuff why do you need an optical drive? and if by chance you do... then connect to any of the other tons of computers with one in the area...

2c...

LJ

[LumberJack]

AND...

When I need to I can run Solidworks, Matlab, Maya... take your pic on this little baby and it takes it!! Works great with non memory intense stuff.

LJ

[gst]

just fyi, i've written a small article which covers a summary of the reasons why i decided for the X41 (if someone else reading this thread at a later date does have the same problem deciding between the two).

the url is: https://web.sysfrog.org/plone/div/x41

/gst

[pphilipko]

Agreed. Simply put the X31 / X32 is the most superior ultraportable I have used and love it. I can smoke a powerbook. Any other taiwanese plastic junk doesn't come close to build quality and keyboard and stuff. They may have a higher resolution, and or optical drive but not enough flash to take me away from my TP.

Plus an ultraportable should stay true. Small light and durable to be moved around lots. There are so many ways to connect to stuff why do you need an optical drive? and if by chance you do... then connect to any of the other tons of computers with one in the area...

2c...

LJ

Careful of what you spew out. Taiwan does NOT make junk, unless you call the motherboards in our thinkpads junk. Many of our computer parts originate from Taiwan, so you are sadly misinformed.

In fact, Taiwan is becoming more of a "threat" to Japan every year, with electronics sales increasing every year. Analysts predict that by 2008, Taiwan will supersede Japan in terms of electronics sales.

No, they are not selling junk.

[aamsel]

That is an indesputable fact.

Andrew
Austin, TX

...No, they (Taiwan) are not selling junk.

[Erez]

I am also checking these 2 alternatives (X32 & X41). Having read all the comments here and elsewhere, I realize that from a cost/performance point of view X32 is a better choice. The only issue that bothers me is when IBM is going to discontinue the X3 line (i.e. the X32 model). I heard rumors that it is very soon. On the other hand, does it really matter? If I take the 3-year warranty than why should I care?

Other issue that bothers me a little with the X32 is the ability to run Windows Vista with all its new AERO UI.

Any insights?

[aamsel]

If you want to run Vista with Aero enabled, forget both X32 and X41. Neither are going to run it. The T42 with 9600 won't run it, because 128MB video RAM and AGP 8X are needed, which the T series doesn't have.

Andrew
Austin, TX

...Other issue that bothers me a little with the X32 is the ability to run Windows Vista with all its new AERO UI.

Any insights?

[LumberJack]

Agreed. Simply put the X31 / X32 is the most superior ultraportable I have used and love it. I can smoke a powerbook. Any other taiwanese plastic junk doesn't come close to build quality and keyboard and stuff. They may have a higher resolution, and or optical drive but not enough flash to take me away from my TP.

Plus an ultraportable should stay true. Small light and durable to be moved around lots. There are so many ways to connect to stuff why do you need an optical drive? and if by chance you do... then connect to any of the other tons of computers with one in the area...

2c...

LJ

Careful of what you spew out. Taiwan does NOT make junk, unless you call the motherboards in our thinkpads junk. Many of our computer parts originate from Taiwan, so you are sadly misinformed.

In fact, Taiwan is becoming more of a "threat" to Japan every year, with electronics sales increasing every year. Analysts predict that by 2008, Taiwan will supersede Japan in terms of electronics sales.

No, they are not selling junk.

Yes yes.. you are correct of course. I was thinking in terms of consumer products and not raw components... yes Asus makes amazing mobo's and the like, but i'm not too impressed with their laptops although they are better than Dell. Same goes for Gigabyte, Acer and anyone else you care to name.

LJ

[beaker]

X32 all the way on the basis of price for performance. Not only is it cheaper than X41 and has better performance, but also you can buy a 2631 docking station for $10 - 15.

[Erez]

X32 all the way on the basis of price for performance. Not only is it cheaper than X41 and has better performance, but also you can buy a 2631 docking station for $10 - 15.

Now I'm confused. What's the difference between this 2631 docking station and the X3 Ultrabase?

The X3 Ultrabase is priced here in Israel at around $150.

[bhtooefr]

The ThinkPad Dock 2631 currently does not support Linux operating system.
The ThinkPad Dock II (2877) does not support Microsoft Windows 95 or Linux operating systems.
The ThinkPad Dock and ThinkPad Dock II are not supported with the following:
ThinkPad A21e (2655) and A22e systems
ThinkPad R30, R31, and R32 systems
ThinkPad R40, R40e systems
ThinkPad R50e systems
ThinkPad X** systems

And it's not supported on any X series.

[beaker]

I am using a 2631 docking station with an X32; I originally used it with with my A22P. The 2631 docking station part is compatible with the X3* series. It is true that you can no longer call IBM tech support and ask for assistance with the part, because it is no longer sold by IBM. However, the station is supported. The driver for it is here on the X32's Software and Device Driver page.

http://www-307.ibm.com/pc/support/site. ... MIGR-43800

Just in case you still don't believe me, check the title page for the hardware maintenance manual for the X3* series.

http://www.lenovo.com/think/support/sit ... MIGR-44018

The 2631 part is designated as "ThinkPad Dock (MT 2631)". The X32 is the best ultraportable Thinkpad money can buy

[asiafish]

I would say the main issue (apart from price) would be how much you want very light and thin vs. a faster hard drive and built in CD/DVD drive.

Just as a note, the X32 doesn't have a built in optical drive. It is simply a slightly bigger X40 with support for 2.5 drives, better keyboard and more "robust" construction (in my opinion at least).

Ummmm, the X32 does not have a better keyboard or more robust construction. I had an X32 and then got an X41, planning to keep the better of the two and pass the other one to a relative in need.

Needless to say, I fell in love with the X41 and use it as my primary PC. While there are many differences between the two, the biggest one other than weight for me is the keyboard. X32s all have Chicony keyboards, which aren't bad, but don't compare to the Thai NMB keyboard like the one on my X41. Some X41s have Chicony keyboards though, and I can't say if those are better or worse than the X32 keyboard.

Speed isn't too far off except for booting and launching large applications, and thats compared to a 1.8GHz X32 with a 7200 RPM drive. My 1.6GHz X41 feels very fast, and even does a great job on many games including Rome: Total War and Knight of the old Republic 2 "The Sith Lords", which are both recent and graphically demanding games.

The form factor is also much improved, with a slope to the front of the machine that makes typing more comfortable.

Best part is that Thai NMB keyboard, however, whcih is simply the best KB installed on any laptop anywhere. I've never been happier with a laptop, and this is one thing that keeps me from wanting to move up to an X60s.

[MobileGuru]

What "other-brand ultraportable" 12" model with built-in optical drive is built to the same level of quality as an X series Thinkpad??

V100 has tons of good reviews and it's got a built in optical. Since its new I can't talk to reliability at this point in time, but the price point is there and the system flies from my trials.

MG.

[asiafish]

V100 is considerably larger and heavier than an X-series ThinkPad.

[MobileGuru]

Regarding the X32 vs X41 debate, I'd throw my hat into the X32 circle ay day of the week. While it's true that the X4 is sleeker and lighter with a smaller overall footprint, the X32 is robust and performance wise much better in my eyes. The biggest drawback to the X4 is without a doubt the drive speed, while the X32 is limited by video memory. For an ultraportable business machine that I don't plan on playing games with, the X32 is a better hitter with the faster HDD and thicker titanium/magnesium shell.

Of course, I'd give both of them away if this comparison included an X60, where you get the best of both worlds .. finally.

MG.

[asiafish]

I don't quite agree. Drive performance is terrific on the X32, but I think X41 build-quallity is better on the X41 (haven't played with an X60s yet). I've had both and find the X41 far more regidly constructed and better finished than the X32.

Video is also MUCH better on the X41. I use mine as an ultraportable business machine the way it was intended, but sometimes on those long flights or in those lonely hotel rooms I actually do use it to play games, and while it won't run Doom III very well, it will run it. Lesser games play beautifully, including Rome: Total War whcih plays in full cinematic glory.

Finally, while drive performance on the X41 cannot compare, its isn't that bad with a little optimization. Symantec Antivirus was the biggest slowdown on my X41, and once it was removed I get fairly fast boots (1:28 including POST) and very responsive performance.

Add in the much better keyboard (I have the Thai NMB, X32s all have the Chicony) and smaller/lighter form factor and I call the X41 the clear winner, unless you really need a larger than 60GB drive or do a lot of very disk-intensive work.